Yes. I suck at math. More than any other ive known. and i want to be an architect, its the biggest goal in my life at the moment. I’ve been struggling with anything related with math since when i was in primary school. I liked to draw and create, so i applied to high school for art students. It ended up finding out the fact that what i really want is not fine-arts nor product design, but architecture. I dropped out of the school. At least I don’t have any noticeable doubt on drawing.
As i heard so far, architect does not have to be great at math but need to know basic math and physics.
And here’s the question; Is it possible to be an architect without studying high school mathematics? Is there any course for it? Is there ANY architecture school that I can apply to with my poor skill at math? (btw I live in S.Korea and I do not mind studying abroad.)
I know this might be the stupidest question on the planet, but i want to try everything I can. I want to avoid the situation of quitting this way to my dream job just because of math. Even if its not important when i really become an architect, I need to ENTER architecture school first. A lot of architects have reputation with their poor drawing skill but i haven’t seen anyone struggling with math.
Any kind of advice is much appreciated.
Non Sequitur
Nov 28, 17 7:43 am
Math is rather important as are physics and any accredited program will absuletly require minimum competence in both (and also high school completion).
Architecture is more than pretty pictures. One needs to factor in space areas, material / thickness, construction tolerances, deflections, thermal resistances and a whole boat load of basic code requirements. Understanding and using data is fundamental or else you’re just another dreamer competing in a well saturated field.
Best to take a hard look at night school if you want a fighting chance.
randomised
Nov 28, 17 8:04 am
If you're so sure you want to be an architect, and want to try everything, you could perhaps find the time and put in the effort to study a bit of math, come on...it's your dream isn't it? People often think they suck at math without knowing what it is that they are sucking at. Or you might have dyscalculia, in which case you can get diagnosed and can get professional help: https://www.understood.org/en/...
Wilma Buttfit
Nov 28, 17 8:13 am
Math is like most anything else where a little practice will pay off. There are online learning platforms like Khan Academy and Coursera where you can learn at your own pace for free and not worry about grades. You don’t have to be a math and physics ace, getting a B grade is fine.
senjohnblutarsky
Nov 28, 17 8:15 am
You need to know math, and anyone who tells you otherwise is fooling themselves and you.
justavisual
Nov 28, 17 8:35 am
I suck at math and I am an architect...
...there you go.
randomised
Nov 28, 17 8:55 am
But then again, you produce "just visuals" :-P
justavisual
Nov 28, 17 9:00 am
True true...
All of you want, that pretty picture
The perfection, that illusion has got your head
Strive, strive, strive, but the image eludes your reality
On your deathbed, empty handed, it might all sink in
And as you tune out
It hits you
It was just a visual
And then it hits you
It was just a visual
randomised
Nov 28, 17 1:39 pm
Very poetic
pouryaポウリヤ
Jan 27, 21 2:59 am
Even you suck at math you still use it. You have to write the cm and m or whatever to build the house even factors, algebra!
So How about telling us what math and physics things you use?
Non Sequitur
Nov 28, 17 8:37 am
This topic should be at the top of the forum page for ever.
Let's not forget that someone has to pay for the building and you time, you need to be comfortable estimating both time and materials costs.
btw, I nearly failed high-school math (due to laziness) but aced physics. I took math in summer / school to meet the minimum grade cut-off (still but not quite as lazy)... then once I got to university, it was aces all the way.
Wilma Buttfit
Nov 28, 17 8:44 am
I took trig twice in college because I got a C the fist time and it wasn’t good enough to apply to the arch school. Managed to pull a B the second time. I am not great at math but good enough. I wish I was better too. Aced high school calculus though, not sure how that happened.... a very faint memory.
Wilma Buttfit
Nov 28, 17 8:47 am
Architects take statics too, which is the math and science of making objects stand still.
BulgarBlogger
Nov 28, 17 8:54 am
I highly recommend you read a book called “Mastery” by Robert Greene.
To answer your question about Math:
Math is essential to architecture, not because you are required to necessarily use complicated formulas on an everyday basis, but because mathematics is about finding the relationships between different things in a scientific and quantifiable way. The logic hou develope by solving mathematical problems and equations is directly applicable to many aspects of architectural design. You dont have to be a mathematician to be an architect, and you dont have to remember calculus 10 years into your career. You just have to be profcient enough in math so when you see something that either requires mathematical skill, or requires some critical and logical thinking, you’ll be able to firguere it out.
Here’s a simple word problem: an accessible ramp has a maximim slope of 1:12; the max code-prescribed length of ramp is 30 feet. What is the maximum allowable rise in inches?
Oh and btw - there’s no such thing as not being good at math. You can however, be so disinterested or lazy, that you dont put in the effort to practice. Anyone can be good at math if they practice, so just bite the bullet and become proficient! You’ll be better off in the end!
randomised
Nov 28, 17 8:56 am
"Anyone can be good at math if they practice, so just bite the bullet and become proficient! You’ll be better off in the end! "
That's like saying anyone can learn to read by simply practicing just like you and me, never heard of dyslexia?
Wilma Buttfit
Nov 28, 17 9:04 am
I’ve never heard of a dyslexic who never learned to read. They all do it eventually.
randomised
Nov 28, 17 1:41 pm
Yes but it is not simply practice like for the rest of us and bam, suddenly you can read. It is extremely difficult and hard work, and even when you can read eventually, it doesn't mean that what you read makes any sense.
Wilma Buttfit
Nov 29, 17 9:03 am
I've seen a dyslexic kid go from 0th percentile to 95th in about a year. My husband is one of the best dyslexia teachers in the US :)
BulgarBlogger
Nov 29, 17 10:00 am
There's a reason for why certain jobs are not meant for certain people.
BulgarBlogger
Nov 29, 17 10:00 am
There's a reason for why certain jobs are not meant for certain people.
In any case - Tinbeary - how have your husband's students scored on national exams compared to other "normal" students?
Wilma Buttfit
Nov 29, 17 10:22 am
"I've seen a dyslexic kid go from 0th percentile to 95th in about a year."
randomised
Nov 30, 17 1:21 pm
Wow, that's impressive.
Wilma Buttfit
Dec 1, 17 10:36 am
Indeed, thanks. That's probably our best stat, but there are plenty of other kids who went from failing to thriving as well. I had a student who was to fail a grade and after working with me got accepted into an exclusive private school instead. I worked with her 6 hours a week for about 9 weeks.Teaching (outside of public school) is amazing!
dandenong
Nov 28, 17 8:55 am
Thanks for opinions. It doesnt mean that i gave up on putting effort on math. Never. & Did a tiny bit of research, I don’t know how american colleges work but it seems like some of their art schools -Pratt, Syracuse, SCAD, etc.- have different requirements. Is there anyone who’s graduated the faculty of architecture in those art schools?
waw
Nov 30, 17 11:38 am
At Syracuse, you'll need to take one math class if you don't have AP credit from High School, and then 2 structures courses that are fairly math intensive. But really, once you get through them, in practice you just need basic math and problem solving.
justavisual
Nov 28, 17 9:05 am
If you pass the requirements to go to the university in the first place you will manage to pass the maths courses required. Also, what kind of math are you bad at? For me geometry and calc were a horror. Physics and statistics was okay.
Passed Ivy League level calc class bc luckily the rest of freshman architects and the whole hockey team ended up in my class...hockey team pulled the curve down so far all the architects passed (most of us were shit at math who were taking this low level course). Do your homework, go to study hours and fail your exams you still pass.
As long as you can understand structures you'll be okay...maths helps you do things faster/quicker, but its not a make it or break it thing.
dandenong
Nov 28, 17 9:13 am
“What kind of math are you bad at?”
dandenong
Nov 28, 17 9:13 am
Every part of it. tbh im studying back again from middle school courses.
BulgarBlogger
Nov 28, 17 9:07 am
not to mention to efficiency aspect of being an employee... if you cant figure out the above problem in five seconds or less, you shouldnt consider architecture... nit because you suck at math, but because it is an indicator of how efficiently you think... and efficiency is king when you are trying to make money.
James Aleister Barcelona
Nov 28, 17 9:07 am
The curriculum of my BSc Architecture program had math all the way until my fourth year. Advanced Algebra, Advanced Trigonometry, Advanced Physics, Advanced Calculus (all which I already had in high school for crying out loud) which were prerequisites for the higher subjects we were also required to take which are Engineering Sciences and Architectural Sciences (which dealt mainly with computing structural design, building technology and construction). It greatly helped especially with understanding structural aspects of building design. More importantly, architects should at least know how his/her building will stand and last.
Also, having or owning what you want the most in life doesn't nor shouldn't come easy. You have to work hard for it. And there's no growth on your part if you choose to walk the easier path. At some point, you need to tackle your fears or weakness/es. Go and take math courses not just for the engineering aspect, but for the business aspect of architecture as well. Also, computational design in architecture is also becoming relevant and it will eventually be at the forefront of many (big firms) practices. So there's no reason for you to avoid math if you want to become an architect because there will be a lot of it throughout your eventual academic and professional life.
Wilma Buttfit
Nov 28, 17 10:17 am
If you can draw, you are good at math. Draw your math. I have tutored high school math so I know what I'm talking about. Build fluency with the basics, multiplication facts should be on the tip of your tongue, practice with ratios, fractions, percents, decimals, estimating. Practice holding numbers in your head and adding a bunch numbers together, these basic skills are the most useful in day to day work anyways AND it will also help you to build number sense and a foundation for algebra, calc, etc.
JLC-1
Nov 28, 17 11:06 am
The only piece of advice I would give you besides all that's been said here is Go to Architectural school in the system you know best; trying to study arch in an imperial system country if you had all your education in metric would be a nightmare. At some point in history we will all work in metric system.
Non Sequitur
Nov 28, 17 12:00 pm
Most already work in the real world (metric). 8-)
Wilma Buttfit
Nov 28, 17 12:02 pm
We use plenty of metric in the US, you have to know both.
JLC-1
Nov 28, 17 12:04 pm
I know, I work in the US, but grew up in the real world .
Non Sequitur
Nov 28, 17 12:38 pm
nothing ruins my day / week more than having to work on an imperial drawing. Worst thing is, since the drafting staff normally functions in metric (again, real world), when they draw using imperial units, I get nonsensical things like 8' - 3 17/32" to outside face of walls. Sure... that 17/32 is crucial... eye-roll
archinine
Nov 28, 17 11:55 am
Going to an art school with 'lower' entry requirements is not a viable solution to skirt math. For an accredited degree, including at those places you mentioned, one is required to pass both calculus and physics at a colloege level. If you can't wrap your head around basic geometry, fractions, proportions and physics you're not going to be much of an architect. Deeper mathematics - think matrices, linear algebra, topology are an excellent base for hybrid BIM roles. These last skill sets are becoming more in demand as are basic finance / management skills. If you want to do more than pretty pictures you need math. If you only want to make pretty pictures of buildings, major in studio art or cinema studies, plenty of render artists are employed by architects. That said if it's extremely difficult despite lots of practice perhaps you ought to focus on some ancillary role that isn't becoming an architect. The most successful architect may not be able to write out a long hand formula but they have a 'rational' mind that understands geometry and space very easily.
Math is much broader than formulas. It's quite possible you have mathematics strengths you're not aware of that are influencing you toward architecture in the first place. Get good at topology, geometry, fractions and human scale proportions. That's all you really need.
zonker
Nov 28, 17 12:18 pm
The key to "getting it" it to draw elements - in Trig, Analytic Geom. and Calc, draw figures and diagrams - same with algebra - turn it into a sketchbook exercise, that's what I did to learn Trig and Analytic Geom. if its just number, it doesn't make sense - I have to be good at math as most of may co-workers are from China and India and can do math in their heads and I cant be standing there in a design meeting looking like a doofus
LightMyFire66
Nov 28, 17 1:55 pm
What we do with employees who suck at math.... we find out and become angry to the point where our skin develops rashes then one day we take a walk with the boy deep into the woods behind our office. Then we pull out one of a wide variety of handguns and blow his brains out. Leaving his corpse to decay and be eaten by our forest friends. We then hunt his family down and kill them as well for not having enough sense to tell this math-skills-lacking douchebag not to enter the field of architecture. So save a lot of lives and pick another field.
zonker
Nov 28, 17 2:13 pm
learn to do math in your head - don't make a fool out of yourself by doing it with the calculator on your iphone
I feel like knowing basic high school level math is important for a hell of a lot of things, not just architecture.
shellarchitect
Nov 28, 17 3:58 pm
normally I encourage all to follow their dreams, but if you are struggling with primary school math... addition, subtraction, fractions, multiplication, etc. you will struggle with any complex task.
Non Sequitur
Nov 28, 17 5:26 pm
To the OP, ignore the above rants by Ricky. He’s not an architect, nor has he ever designed anything. He also has, surprise surprise, not attended architecture school.
hellion
Nov 28, 17 6:53 pm
So that explains the ^ naiveté and nuisance. Also @ "Geometry, elementary math & algebra, I do fine with is literally what I find most common to be needed for solving structural design." (eye roll) I won't be surprised if he gets beaten up if he says that to a structural designer / civil engineer. Bitch clearly doesn't know what he's talking about.
Non Sequitur
Nov 29, 17 7:39 am
Ricky, every ignorant rant you post further confirms the number of projects at zero. Granted your too ill to recognize this.
hellion
Nov 29, 17 8:57 am
Last I checked, trigonometry, physics and calculus are the prerequisite knowledge for structural design, especially for the computation of loads. NOT just geometry, elementary math & algebra (yeah, you'll need to know the basics but only limiting or relying on that is not enough). Also, most of the architecture curriculum in Asia is based on western standards (particularly more from the US), so our licensure examinations are also based on that. I know for one there's a substantial portion of structural design in the the US licensure exam (a friend of mine recently took one and passed the licensure in NY, and he is also educated from the same school I was here in Asia). So there's not much difference whether I'm from the US or not, but the fact is that universally in this profession, if the OP really wants to become an architect and a licensed one at that, he must at least know or reach a collegiate level (or entry-level engineering) of math It may not be used as much in the design process, but to know that mathematical / engineering logic that goes into designing your building is just as vital as everything else. I assume you would know all of these things since you are well-experienced enough to be licensed at this point. Unless what everyone else here is saying is true that you're not. Also, why don't you solve that sample problem you posted. This
is about you proving that your method and experience is ideal and the one OP should follow. If you can solve it with just geometry and algebra, then show us.
AlinaF
Nov 28, 17 6:25 pm
Well better learn math and get a proper education because in 4-5 years time you will be posting 'I suck at architecture & want to be a (enter other profession).
( o Y o )
Nov 28, 17 11:45 pm
how are those math skills payin off for you Ricky?
archinine
Nov 29, 17 1:07 pm
I'm with you NS. How do I get the ignore button on mobile? Also is it just me or does it seem RB and Bulgar are the same person? Caught that on another thread. Not that I care who's who but it makes me feel better that there's only one rambling incoherent jerk on here rather than two.
Josh Mings
Nov 29, 17 1:27 pm
I see Rick went back to creating dumpster fires.
Wilma Buttfit
Nov 29, 17 7:44 pm
Imagine what the built world would look like without math.
Wilma Buttfit
Nov 29, 17 8:42 pm
Thesis: Mathless Architecture, the way forward.
Non Sequitur
Nov 29, 17 7:51 pm
I didn’t most of yesterday on a site plan submission. Hurray for zoning math!
Le Courvoisier
Nov 30, 17 11:32 am
Don't you make excuses and give up every time you suck at something? I mean shit, man - you make excuses about everything.
sameolddoctor
Nov 30, 17 1:33 pm
BULLSHIT. Most architects I know of suck at math. The suckage at math will help you immensely when you have to count your paycheck.
Thayer-D
Nov 30, 17 2:56 pm
Are you good at geometry? In my opinion, it's more important than was is traditionally understood as math.
Bench
Nov 30, 17 3:31 pm
There you go. Having a deep understanding of the relationships between and effects of specific geometry, especially in the areas of rationality and logic, are something I use way more than any kind of linear algebra/calculus/etc.
Wilma Buttfit
Nov 30, 17 11:21 pm
Having to be good at geometry is a given. the other stuff not so obvious.
Wilma Buttfit
Dec 1, 17 8:59 am
Gotta know geometry for measuring and drawing existing buildings. A 2 foot error in an 80 foot building is not tolerable (true story). When all the measurements work out, you know to measure.
Brian Browne
Dec 3, 17 10:36 pm
Have you ever consider reviewing some tutorials some KhanAcademy? If you need to understand the breakdown of each topic in math, its a great source to get you started. As a person who drafts constantly, there some mathematics equations that will speed up your process in drafting that will maximize your productivity.
arditarifi
Dec 1, 20 8:03 am
can i be architect without math
Non Sequitur
Dec 1, 20 8:16 am
can you even be an adult without math?
arditarifi
Dec 1, 20 9:39 am
answer the question
arditarifi
Dec 1, 20 9:39 am
with yes and no
Non Sequitur
Dec 1, 20 9:41 am
I did.
tduds
Dec 1, 20 12:08 pm
Define "math."
I'm leaning towards no.
arditarifi
Dec 1, 20 9:57 am
JUST WITH YES OR NO
arditarifi
Dec 1, 20 11:32 am
im in architecture school but idk the math and im asking should i stop or move on
Non Sequitur
Dec 1, 20 11:43 am
what do you think? It's not difficult math at all but it is an important part. Not just with basic design & proportions but also helps with understanding consultants, codes, building assemblies, zoning, etc. It's not more than grade 9 physics so if you can't figure it out by yourself, this might not be the best option. Also important, don't seek real-life advice from anonymous wankers online. Speak with your professors.
SneakyPete
Dec 1, 20 12:11 pm
Learn to use a calculator. That will suffice for much of the real work. Talk to the structures professor about your concerns. While you'll still need to pass (which is frequently difficult for students who are not math savvy) they might be able to explain concepts in a way that won't get you into trouble during the part of design that happens before the structural engineer hops on board.
zonker
Dec 1, 20 1:24 pm
As I've said before, many Asian students can do math in their heads and are very adroit t it. Don't put yourself at a disadvantage as another "dumb American" learn math. It's not that hard - I became good at Trig and analytic geometry through practice. set up problems in cad or Revit, this way you can visualize math
arditarifi
Dec 1, 20 3:03 pm
thnx everyone
scottdurgin
Mar 12, 22 12:21 pm
If you suck at math you'll suck at physics, period. Then you'll suck as an architect. There's no way around it.
b3tadine[sutures]
Mar 12, 22 12:48 pm
Buuuuuullllllshhiiiiiittttt.
bowling_ball
Mar 12, 22 1:11 pm
Number of times I've resorted to a math or physics book in my professional career: zero.
bowling_ball
Mar 12, 22 4:21 pm
Follow up for clarity: I never took a math class beyond grade 10. Never took a physics class, period. I found another way to get into school that didn't involve jumping through those specific hoops.
b3tadine[sutures]
Mar 12, 22 8:14 pm
I mean I run out of digits, bad at math passed twenty, thinking about the numbers of architects that do beautiful work not focused on maths.
rcz1001
Mar 12, 22 10:43 pm
Actually, architecture doesn't necessarily need high level math. Perhaps your college level algebra, geometry, mathematics, etc. Actually, if you can't do math (not to confuse 'math' aka 'elementary math' with alegebra, etc. then you aren't qualified for any job that customarily requires a college education. However, you don't need the level of math skill of a theoretical physicist with a doctoral degree. This is because the equations that you would use for engineering is actually glorified regular math equations using variables to represent the numbers. You don't need to have advance calculus and abstract algebra skills to be an architect. You might need it in some cases but realistically, you are going to use engineering consultants to do that.... even then, most engineers uses advance computer software programs which does the million computational equations a second to do some of the stuff that needs to be done because doing so by hand takes too friggin' long. As an architect, you may or may not need these advance level of math as that depends on what you are doing.
I'll clarify, you need competency in performing multiplications, divisions, additions, subtractions.... understand the PEMDAS.... and should have some understanding of elementary alegebra versus say.... abstract algebra but it's nice if you do. You should have some understanding of geometry and some trigonometry. Beyond that is nice to have and can be useful for some fairly complex projects. However, it is not absolutely required and most architects don't have or remembered how to do some of the more advance stuff like calculus. Most, forget that stuff pretty quickly because it is never used in their careers. Sure, it might happen but you kind of have to regularly use such advance math skills to remember how to do them effectively. Most people are doing a fine job as architects without having to use those advance math skills. A lot of projects simply don't require phd level physics and calculus. Even then, when it is used, it's usually the computer and the particular software that does that hard stuff for you.
MDH-ARCH
Mar 13, 22 9:10 am
In reality, the math classes are more difficult than the math you will be doing in the real world.
I was just like you and feared that my math skills would hold me back from chasing my dream. You will find it is a limiting belief that you hold about yourself. Once I got serious about my plan, I ended up surpassing most students in math. Put in the time, be positive, ask for help along the way. Build confidence and you will be fine. Good luck.
natematt
Mar 13, 22 1:00 pm
That first sentence is basically the entire response to this topic. Math in the profession is pretty minor, if you go though it in high school you're good. Basic math and maybe some trig are useful. Understanding physics/structural concepts rather than the actual math is also helpful.
The limiting factor will probably always be getting though the physics and structure's classes in school. That's the hardest part. If you can do that, you're overqualified in math.
So the real question is should people worry about failing out of those classes. Probably a bit. I'm curious about other people's observations, but I've not seen anyone fail/drop out of architecture school based on those courses. it's almost always other things. Though I have seen some people really struggle.
bowling_ball
Mar 13, 22 3:05 pm
Working just one summer on a construction site taught me more about structure than all of my structural technical university courses combined. So long as you understand the concepts and relative limits of materials, you'll rarely need to know more. I'm not in residential so that may be different if you're doing the calculations yourself, but otherwise that's why we pay our consultants. Yes, you've got to keep your eyes open and understand what's being shown, but you'll never have to do the calculations yourself.
rcz1001
Mar 14, 22 12:00 am
Even in residential, you'll most likely use consultants. Often, it isn't that hard. It's actually easy when you plug numbers to those variables in the equations (which you do inadvertantly when designing like spacing of columns and beams determines the numbers for tributary area and the load. It's all comes together through process of designing. Even then, unless you are doing something unusual or uncommon, a lot of residential stuff can be done using prescriptive requirements in the code. I think we all have more or less said the same thing.
logon'slogin
Mar 13, 22 1:37 pm
Basic understanding of the rule of thumb and proportional relationships of gravitational forces are your friends. A good understanding of basic math, geometry, algebra, and arithmetic skills you learn from elementary school to high school should be very useful. Know your fractions, decimals, conversions. Proficiency in adding, subtracting, multiplying, and dividing skills is necessary. You will have to use some of these skills on the structural parts of your license exams but not much after. And, know how to operate this when necessary.
Sighhhhhh you high. One tiny example of someone that has literally no understanding of Architecture. Pleeeeeease tell me you're an architect. Pretty please with a Zaha on top!
scottdurgin
Mar 17, 22 8:51 pm
Nice try but you're way out of your depth. I was designing bridges, buildings and industrial equipment before your mom was born. Solving problems in physics requires expertise in math, period. I would never hire an "Architect" claiming mathematics (college math) was not necessary, or attempting to farm it out to a consultant. Not worth a second of thought. An architect without math is a mechanic without a toolbox.
Bye
bowling_ball
Mar 17, 22 8:57 pm
Do you even math bro?
scottdurgin
Mar 20, 22 9:18 pm
The question is do YOU math?
scottdurgin
Mar 20, 22 9:18 pm
Bro
scottdurgin
Mar 20, 22 9:20 pm
You know what comes after Calculus? Di
ffy Q's? PDE's? Tensors? That's the math I do. Bone up bro.
rcz1001
Mar 20, 22 9:36 pm
I don't think anyone is suggesting that architects never use math and to be frank, if you were designing bridges, then you are most likely an licensed engineer aside from maybe also being a licensed architect. However, being an architect without also having a professional engineer's license will either make your professional liability insurance go through the roof or you are not going to be insured for that. For some reason, I think you are either a licensed engineer or an engineering technician working towards an engineer's license or work in a firm that is primarily an engineering firm.
b3tadine[sutures]
Apr 7, 22 6:50 pm
My moms a straight up post WW2 chick, bruh. So....you must be Olde. No one maths anymore, bruh.
Janelle Bowlerr
Jan 12, 23 8:36 am
If you want to be an architect but struggle with math, you may want to consider focusing on the design and conceptual aspects of architecture while seeking assistance with the technical and mathematical aspects. Many architecture programs offer tutoring or extra help for students who need it in math and science courses. Additionally, you can also consider working in a related field such as architectural design or interior design which may not require as strong math skills.
Inanikeke
Apr 10, 23 3:03 am
Hi!
I am class 11 and 16 years old and willing to study undergraduate about architecture and civil engineering. Any of you have two those subject at uni? What uni better for those?
Hello,
Yes. I suck at math. More than any other ive known. and i want to be an architect, its the biggest goal in my life at the moment. I’ve been struggling with anything related with math since when i was in primary school. I liked to draw and create, so i applied to high school for art students. It ended up finding out the fact that what i really want is not fine-arts nor product design, but architecture. I dropped out of the school. At least I don’t have any noticeable doubt on drawing.
As i heard so far, architect does not have to be great at math but need to know basic math and physics.
And here’s the question; Is it possible to be an architect without studying high school mathematics? Is there any course for it? Is there ANY architecture school that I can apply to with my poor skill at math? (btw I live in S.Korea and I do not mind studying abroad.)
I know this might be the stupidest question on the planet, but i want to try everything I can. I want to avoid the situation of quitting this way to my dream job just because of math. Even if its not important when i really become an architect, I need to ENTER architecture school first. A lot of architects have reputation with their poor drawing skill but i haven’t seen anyone struggling with math.
Any kind of advice is much appreciated.
Math is rather important as are physics and any accredited program will absuletly require minimum competence in both (and also high school completion).
Architecture is more than pretty pictures. One needs to factor in space areas, material / thickness, construction tolerances, deflections, thermal resistances and a whole boat load of basic code requirements. Understanding and using data is fundamental or else you’re just another dreamer competing in a well saturated field.
Best to take a hard look at night school if you want a fighting chance.
If you're so sure you want to be an architect, and want to try everything, you could perhaps find the time and put in the effort to study a bit of math, come on...it's your dream isn't it? People often think they suck at math without knowing what it is that they are sucking at. Or you might have dyscalculia, in which case you can get diagnosed and can get professional help: https://www.understood.org/en/...
Math is like most anything else where a little practice will pay off. There are online learning platforms like Khan Academy and Coursera where you can learn at your own pace for free and not worry about grades. You don’t have to be a math and physics ace, getting a B grade is fine.
You need to know math, and anyone who tells you otherwise is fooling themselves and you.
I suck at math and I am an architect...
...there you go.
But then again, you produce "just visuals" :-P
True true...
All of you want, that pretty picture
The perfection, that illusion has got your head
Strive, strive, strive, but the image eludes your reality
On your deathbed, empty handed, it might all sink in
And as you tune out
It hits you
It was just a visual
And then it hits you It was just a visual
Very poetic
Even you suck at math you still use it. You have to write the cm and m or whatever to build the house even factors, algebra!
So How about telling us what math and physics things you use?
This topic should be at the top of the forum page for ever.
Let's not forget that someone has to pay for the building and you time, you need to be comfortable estimating both time and materials costs.
btw, I nearly failed high-school math (due to laziness) but aced physics. I took math in summer / school to meet the minimum grade cut-off (still but not quite as lazy)... then once I got to university, it was aces all the way.
I took trig twice in college because I got a C the fist time and it wasn’t good enough to apply to the arch school. Managed to pull a B the second time. I am not great at math but good enough. I wish I was better too. Aced high school calculus though, not sure how that happened.... a very faint memory.
Architects take statics too, which is the math and science of making objects stand still.
I highly recommend you read a book called “Mastery” by Robert Greene.
To answer your question about Math:
Math is essential to architecture, not because you are required to necessarily use complicated formulas on an everyday basis, but because mathematics is about finding the relationships between different things in a scientific and quantifiable way. The logic hou develope by solving mathematical problems and equations is directly applicable to many aspects of architectural design. You dont have to be a mathematician to be an architect, and you dont have to remember calculus 10 years into your career. You just have to be profcient enough in math so when you see something that either requires mathematical skill, or requires some critical and logical thinking, you’ll be able to firguere it out.
Here’s a simple word problem: an accessible ramp has a maximim slope of 1:12; the max code-prescribed length of ramp is 30 feet. What is the maximum allowable rise in inches?
Oh and btw - there’s no such thing as not being good at math. You can however, be so disinterested or lazy, that you dont put in the effort to practice. Anyone can be good at math if they practice, so just bite the bullet and become proficient! You’ll be better off in the end!
"Anyone can be good at math if they practice, so just bite the bullet and become proficient! You’ll be better off in the end! "
That's like saying anyone can learn to read by simply practicing just like you and me, never heard of dyslexia?
I’ve never heard of a dyslexic who never learned to read. They all do it eventually.
Yes but it is not simply practice like for the rest of us and bam, suddenly you can read. It is extremely difficult and hard work, and even when you can read eventually, it doesn't mean that what you read makes any sense.
I've seen a dyslexic kid go from 0th percentile to 95th in about a year. My husband is one of the best dyslexia teachers in the US :)
There's a reason for why certain jobs are not meant for certain people.
There's a reason for why certain jobs are not meant for certain people.
In any case - Tinbeary - how have your husband's students scored on national exams compared to other "normal" students?
"I've seen a dyslexic kid go from 0th percentile to 95th in about a year."
Wow, that's impressive.
Indeed, thanks. That's probably our best stat, but there are plenty of other kids who went from failing to thriving as well. I had a student who was to fail a grade and after working with me got accepted into an exclusive private school instead. I worked with her 6 hours a week for about 9 weeks.Teaching (outside of public school) is amazing!
Thanks for opinions. It doesnt mean that i gave up on putting effort on math. Never. & Did a tiny bit of research, I don’t know how american colleges work but it seems like some of their art schools -Pratt, Syracuse, SCAD, etc.- have different requirements. Is there anyone who’s graduated the faculty of architecture in those art schools?
At Syracuse, you'll need to take one math class if you don't have AP credit from High School, and then 2 structures courses that are fairly math intensive. But really, once you get through them, in practice you just need basic math and problem solving.
If you pass the requirements to go to the university in the first place you will manage to pass the maths courses required. Also, what kind of math are you bad at? For me geometry and calc were a horror. Physics and statistics was okay.
Passed Ivy League level calc class bc luckily the rest of freshman architects and the whole hockey team ended up in my class...hockey team pulled the curve down so far all the architects passed (most of us were shit at math who were taking this low level course). Do your homework, go to study hours and fail your exams you still pass.
As long as you can understand structures you'll be okay...maths helps you do things faster/quicker, but its not a make it or break it thing.
“What kind of math are you bad at?”
Every part of it. tbh im studying back again from middle school courses.
not to mention to efficiency aspect of being an employee... if you cant figure out the above problem in five seconds or less, you shouldnt consider architecture... nit because you suck at math, but because it is an indicator of how efficiently you think... and efficiency is king when you are trying to make money.
The curriculum of my BSc Architecture program had math all the way until my fourth year. Advanced Algebra, Advanced Trigonometry, Advanced Physics, Advanced Calculus (all which I already had in high school for crying out loud) which were prerequisites for the higher subjects we were also required to take which are Engineering Sciences and Architectural Sciences (which dealt mainly with computing structural design, building technology and construction). It greatly helped especially with understanding structural aspects of building design. More importantly, architects should at least know how his/her building will stand and last.
Also, having or owning what you want the most in life doesn't nor shouldn't come easy. You have to work hard for it. And there's no growth on your part if you choose to walk the easier path. At some point, you need to tackle your fears or weakness/es. Go and take math courses not just for the engineering aspect, but for the business aspect of architecture as well. Also, computational design in architecture is also becoming relevant and it will eventually be at the forefront of many (big firms) practices. So there's no reason for you to avoid math if you want to become an architect because there will be a lot of it throughout your eventual academic and professional life.
If you can draw, you are good at math. Draw your math. I have tutored high school math so I know what I'm talking about. Build fluency with the basics, multiplication facts should be on the tip of your tongue, practice with ratios, fractions, percents, decimals, estimating. Practice holding numbers in your head and adding a bunch numbers together, these basic skills are the most useful in day to day work anyways AND it will also help you to build number sense and a foundation for algebra, calc, etc.
The only piece of advice I would give you besides all that's been said here is Go to Architectural school in the system you know best; trying to study arch in an imperial system country if you had all your education in metric would be a nightmare. At some point in history we will all work in metric system.
Most already work in the real world (metric). 8-)
We use plenty of metric in the US, you have to know both.
I know, I work in the US, but grew up in the real world .
nothing ruins my day / week more than having to work on an imperial drawing. Worst thing is, since the drafting staff normally functions in metric (again, real world), when they draw using imperial units, I get nonsensical things like 8' - 3 17/32" to outside face of walls. Sure... that 17/32 is crucial... eye-roll
Going to an art school with 'lower' entry requirements is not a viable solution to skirt math. For an accredited degree, including at those places you mentioned, one is required to pass both calculus and physics at a colloege level. If you can't wrap your head around basic geometry, fractions, proportions and physics you're not going to be much of an architect. Deeper mathematics - think matrices, linear algebra, topology are an excellent base for hybrid BIM roles. These last skill sets are becoming more in demand as are basic finance / management skills. If you want to do more than pretty pictures you need math. If you only want to make pretty pictures of buildings, major in studio art or cinema studies, plenty of render artists are employed by architects. That said if it's extremely difficult despite lots of practice perhaps you ought to focus on some ancillary role that isn't becoming an architect. The most successful architect may not be able to write out a long hand formula but they have a 'rational' mind that understands geometry and space very easily.
Math is much broader than formulas. It's quite possible you have mathematics strengths you're not aware of that are influencing you toward architecture in the first place. Get good at topology, geometry, fractions and human scale proportions. That's all you really need.
The key to "getting it" it to draw elements - in Trig, Analytic Geom. and Calc, draw figures and diagrams - same with algebra - turn it into a sketchbook exercise, that's what I did to learn Trig and Analytic Geom. if its just number, it doesn't make sense - I have to be good at math as most of may co-workers are from China and India and can do math in their heads and I cant be standing there in a design meeting looking like a doofus
What we do with employees who suck at math.... we find out and become angry to the point where our skin develops rashes then one day we take a walk with the boy deep into the woods behind our office. Then we pull out one of a wide variety of handguns and blow his brains out. Leaving his corpse to decay and be eaten by our forest friends. We then hunt his family down and kill them as well for not having enough sense to tell this math-skills-lacking douchebag not to enter the field of architecture. So save a lot of lives and pick another field.
learn to do math in your head - don't make a fool out of yourself by doing it with the calculator on your iphone
That's not math, that's only calculus.
This is why you need to learn math
I feel like knowing basic high school level math is important for a hell of a lot of things, not just architecture.
normally I encourage all to follow their dreams, but if you are struggling with primary school math... addition, subtraction, fractions, multiplication, etc. you will struggle with any complex task.
To the OP, ignore the above rants by Ricky. He’s not an architect, nor has he ever designed anything. He also has, surprise surprise, not attended architecture school.
So that explains the ^ naiveté and nuisance. Also @ "Geometry, elementary math & algebra, I do fine with is literally what I find most common to be needed for solving structural design." (eye roll) I won't be surprised if he gets beaten up if he says that to a structural designer / civil engineer. Bitch clearly doesn't know what he's talking about.
Ricky, every ignorant rant you post further confirms the number of projects at zero. Granted your too ill to recognize this.
Last I checked, trigonometry, physics and calculus are the prerequisite knowledge for structural design, especially for the computation of loads. NOT just geometry, elementary math & algebra (yeah, you'll need to know the basics but only limiting or relying on that is not enough). Also, most of the architecture curriculum in Asia is based on western standards (particularly more from the US), so our licensure examinations are also based on that. I know for one there's a substantial portion of structural design in the the US licensure exam (a friend of mine recently took one and passed the licensure in NY, and he is also educated from the same school I was here in Asia). So there's not much difference whether I'm from the US or not, but the fact is that universally in this profession, if the OP really wants to become an architect and a licensed one at that, he must at least know or reach a collegiate level (or entry-level engineering) of math It may not be used as much in the design process, but to know that mathematical / engineering logic that goes into designing your building is just as vital as everything else. I assume you would know all of these things since you are well-experienced enough to be licensed at this point. Unless what everyone else here is saying is true that you're not. Also, why don't you solve that sample problem you posted. This is about you proving that your method and experience is ideal and the one OP should follow. If you can solve it with just geometry and algebra, then show us.
Well better learn math and get a proper education because in 4-5 years time you will be posting 'I suck at architecture & want to be a (enter other profession).
how are those math skills payin off for you Ricky?
I'm with you NS. How do I get the ignore button on mobile? Also is it just me or does it seem RB and Bulgar are the same person? Caught that on another thread. Not that I care who's who but it makes me feel better that there's only one rambling incoherent jerk on here rather than two.
I see Rick went back to creating dumpster fires.
Imagine what the built world would look like without math.
Thesis: Mathless Architecture, the way forward.
I didn’t most of yesterday on a site plan submission. Hurray for zoning math!
Don't you make excuses and give up every time you suck at something? I mean shit, man - you make excuses about everything.
BULLSHIT. Most architects I know of suck at math. The suckage at math will help you immensely when you have to count your paycheck.
Are you good at geometry? In my opinion, it's more important than was is traditionally understood as math.
There you go. Having a deep understanding of the relationships between and effects of specific geometry, especially in the areas of rationality and logic, are something I use way more than any kind of linear algebra/calculus/etc.
Having to be good at geometry is a given. the other stuff not so obvious.
Gotta know geometry for measuring and drawing existing buildings. A 2 foot error in an 80 foot building is not tolerable (true story). When all the measurements work out, you know to measure.
Have you ever consider reviewing some tutorials some KhanAcademy? If you need to understand the breakdown of each topic in math, its a great source to get you started. As a person who drafts constantly, there some mathematics equations that will speed up your process in drafting that will maximize your productivity.
can i be architect without math
can you even be an adult without math?
answer the question
with yes and no
I did.
Define "math." I'm leaning towards no.
JUST WITH YES OR NO
im in architecture school but idk the math and im asking should i stop or move on
what do you think? It's not difficult math at all but it is an important part. Not just with basic design & proportions but also helps with understanding consultants, codes, building assemblies, zoning, etc. It's not more than grade 9 physics so if you can't figure it out by yourself, this might not be the best option. Also important, don't seek real-life advice from anonymous wankers online. Speak with your professors.
Learn to use a calculator. That will suffice for much of the real work. Talk to the structures professor about your concerns. While you'll still need to pass (which is frequently difficult for students who are not math savvy) they might be able to explain concepts in a way that won't get you into trouble during the part of design that happens before the structural engineer hops on board.
As I've said before, many Asian students can do math in their heads and are very adroit t it. Don't put yourself at a disadvantage as another "dumb American" learn math. It's not that hard - I became good at Trig and analytic geometry through practice. set up problems in cad or Revit, this way you can visualize math
thnx everyone
If you suck at math you'll suck at physics, period. Then you'll suck as an architect. There's no way around it.
Buuuuuullllllshhiiiiiittttt.
Number of times I've resorted to a math or physics book in my professional career: zero.
Follow up for clarity: I never took a math class beyond grade 10. Never took a physics class, period. I found another way to get into school that didn't involve jumping through those specific hoops.
I mean I run out of digits, bad at math passed twenty, thinking about the numbers of architects that do beautiful work not focused on maths.
Actually, architecture doesn't necessarily need high level math. Perhaps your college level algebra, geometry, mathematics, etc. Actually, if you can't do math (not to confuse 'math' aka 'elementary math' with alegebra, etc. then you aren't qualified for any job that customarily requires a college education. However, you don't need the level of math skill of a theoretical physicist with a doctoral degree. This is because the equations that you would use for engineering is actually glorified regular math equations using variables to represent the numbers. You don't need to have advance calculus and abstract algebra skills to be an architect. You might need it in some cases but realistically, you are going to use engineering consultants to do that.... even then, most engineers uses advance computer software programs which does the million computational equations a second to do some of the stuff that needs to be done because doing so by hand takes too friggin' long. As an architect, you may or may not need these advance level of math as that depends on what you are doing.
I'll clarify, you need competency in performing multiplications, divisions, additions, subtractions.... understand the PEMDAS.... and should have some understanding of elementary alegebra versus say.... abstract algebra but it's nice if you do. You should have some understanding of geometry and some trigonometry. Beyond that is nice to have and can be useful for some fairly complex projects. However, it is not absolutely required and most architects don't have or remembered how to do some of the more advance stuff like calculus. Most, forget that stuff pretty quickly because it is never used in their careers. Sure, it might happen but you kind of have to regularly use such advance math skills to remember how to do them effectively. Most people are doing a fine job as architects without having to use those advance math skills. A lot of projects simply don't require phd level physics and calculus. Even then, when it is used, it's usually the computer and the particular software that does that hard stuff for you.
In reality, the math classes are more difficult than the math you will be doing in the real world.
I was just like you and feared that my math skills would hold me back from chasing my dream. You will find it is a limiting belief that you hold about yourself. Once I got serious about my plan, I ended up surpassing most students in math. Put in the time, be positive, ask for help along the way. Build confidence and you will be fine. Good luck.
That first sentence is basically the entire response to this topic. Math in the profession is pretty minor, if you go though it in high school you're good. Basic math and maybe some trig are useful. Understanding physics/structural concepts rather than the actual math is also helpful.
The limiting factor will probably always be getting though the physics and structure's classes in school. That's the hardest part. If you can do that, you're overqualified in math.
So the real question is should people worry about failing out of those classes. Probably a bit. I'm curious about other people's observations, but I've not seen anyone fail/drop out of architecture school based on those courses. it's almost always other things. Though I have seen some people really struggle.
Working just one summer on a construction site taught me more about structure than all of my structural technical university courses combined. So long as you understand the concepts and relative limits of materials, you'll rarely need to know more. I'm not in residential so that may be different if you're doing the calculations yourself, but otherwise that's why we pay our consultants. Yes, you've got to keep your eyes open and understand what's being shown, but you'll never have to do the calculations yourself.
Even in residential, you'll most likely use consultants. Often, it isn't that hard. It's actually easy when you plug numbers to those variables in the equations (which you do inadvertantly when designing like spacing of columns and beams determines the numbers for tributary area and the load. It's all comes together through process of designing. Even then, unless you are doing something unusual or uncommon, a lot of residential stuff can be done using prescriptive requirements in the code. I think we all have more or less said the same thing.
Basic understanding of the rule of thumb and proportional relationships of gravitational forces are your friends. A good understanding of basic math, geometry, algebra, and arithmetic skills you learn from elementary school to high school should be very useful. Know your fractions, decimals, conversions. Proficiency in adding, subtracting, multiplying, and dividing skills is necessary. You will have to use some of these skills on the structural parts of your license exams but not much after.
And, know how to operate this when necessary.
Sigh...
One tiny example
https://education.seattlepi.com/math-classes-architects-college-1107.html
Sighhhhhh you high. One tiny example of someone that has literally no understanding of Architecture. Pleeeeeease tell me you're an architect. Pretty please with a Zaha on top!
Nice try but you're way out of your depth. I was designing bridges, buildings and industrial equipment before your mom was born. Solving problems in physics requires expertise in math, period. I would never hire an "Architect" claiming mathematics (college math) was not necessary, or attempting to farm it out to a consultant. Not worth a second of thought. An architect without math is a mechanic without a toolbox.
Bye
Do you even math bro?
The question is do YOU math?
Bro
You know what comes after Calculus? Di
ffy Q's? PDE's? Tensors? That's the math I do. Bone up bro.
I don't think anyone is suggesting that architects never use math and to be frank, if you were designing bridges, then you are most likely an licensed engineer aside from maybe also being a licensed architect. However, being an architect without also having a professional engineer's license will either make your professional liability insurance go through the roof or you are not going to be insured for that. For some reason, I think you are either a licensed engineer or an engineering technician working towards an engineer's license or work in a firm that is primarily an engineering firm.
My moms a straight up post WW2 chick, bruh. So....you must be Olde. No one maths anymore, bruh.
If you want to be an architect but struggle with math, you may want to consider focusing on the design and conceptual aspects of architecture while seeking assistance with the technical and mathematical aspects. Many architecture programs offer tutoring or extra help for students who need it in math and science courses. Additionally, you can also consider working in a related field such as architectural design or interior design which may not require as strong math skills.
Hi!
I am class 11 and 16 years old and willing to study undergraduate about architecture and civil engineering. Any of you have two those subject at uni? What uni better for those?
Thank you for the opinion