Any suggestion how to be better at detailing ? I am in residential architecture. Most of my coworkers drawing look great . Any idea how I can improve on those skills ?
randomised
Nov 13, 17 9:53 pm
Go to the building site and see how your drawings translate into a building, it's an eye opener.
citizen
Nov 14, 17 2:44 am
+++ What randomised wrote. Knowing how materials actually go together into an assembly put together on site will make you a better designer of details.
My first trip to a project under construction for which I'd drawn and redrawn a whole set of architectural and structural details was a great education. ("Ohhhh... so that's what that line means...")
Bench
Nov 14, 17 4:36 am
Given that its not always feasible to go to site on a consistent basis and observe the ongoing process (IE - I can only get onto my site about once every two weeks at best), are there some good resources that can supplement site observation as well? Im approaching licensure in the next year or so and still often find myself struggling to get a totally 'right' detail drawn.
caramelhighrise
Jan 21, 21 8:40 pm
I'm going to second this question, not because my schedule doesn't allow for site visits, but because my firm has a way of denying almost every request of mine to see projects in person. Even projects I've completed as the architect. Even local ones. No no, I'm not bitter. The bright side is I've gotten extremely good at digging through progress reports so I can vicariously watch something go up.
hellion
Nov 14, 17 6:11 am
It helps to talk or consult with suppliers (who normally provide shop drawings) and builders (the people hired to actually construct it) how this connects with that, and etc. Then check Graphic Standards or the google how materials and these details are represented in drawing (or you can make your own just make sure to provide a legend or callouts).
Peter Normand
Nov 14, 17 12:38 pm
The suppliers/vendors are more than happy to help you learn the details, and they even will bring lunch. Detailing is never static the science and best practices are constantly changing/updating
Everyday Architect
Nov 14, 17 8:49 am
Look up the manufacturers' details for the things you're detailing. So many times we try to just make something up when it has already been done before. Call up the rep or have them come to the office and ask as many questions as you can think of. Can this touch that? How do I transition from this material to that one? Why do you need that bead of sealant there? In what order does all this get installed? If I do this, will it be warrantable?
s=r*(theta)
Nov 14, 17 9:44 am
Agreed, I was trained to go to sweets catalogue for mnfr details, especially now adays they have 'em in pdf, revit, cad & skethcup most times
won and done williams
Nov 14, 17 10:43 am
Actually, this is why in my opinion detailing has gone downhill in the last 50 years. If you take an off-the-shelf detail, you get an off-the-shelf result. Banal curtain walls everywhere. Banal hung ceilings. Banal column covers. Banal millwork. Good detailing is far more than just picking stuff out of a catalog.
Everyday Architect
Nov 14, 17 11:35 am
won and done, I agree and disagree. Detailing has gone downhill in the last 50 years, but it isn't because people are choosing off-the-shelf details. It's because they don't know anything about the materials they are detailing.
You have to start somewhere. The vast majority of the problems I see in detailing aren't because the designer is trying to come up with something new in order to be innovative, it's because they are trying to come up with something (period). The lack of technical knowledge and acumen then result in poor details because the designer doesn't know enough to even get started.
So start with the off-the-shelf detail. Then, call in an expert (the manufacturer's rep), and learn from them ... you may learn there are important functions in the detail you didn't even know about. Then, if you really need to modify it to get to a different function or a different design aesthetic, hack the detail to suit your needs. Finally, check with the expert again to make sure it is within budget, buildable, and warrantable.
s=r*(theta)
Nov 14, 17 1:43 pm
Obviously you modify the detail to fit your specific scenario. but imho manufacturer details are a great place to start besides your detail library or similar office project. "Great artist steal my friend"
. another help to me in my career besides working w/ some great mentors is joining local csi chapter. monthly speakers shed a ton of light for me on various construction techniques and info
won and done williams
Nov 14, 17 10:44 am
I would recommend Ed Ford's Details of Modern Architecture. Wonderfully drawn - and instructive about how materials go together by the masters.
details? we don't need to learn no stinkin details.lol
masochist
Nov 14, 17 12:21 pm
Thanks everyone for insight.. Yes going to site has been an eye opener. My goal is to learn to create a very solid set of construction document.
3tk
Nov 14, 17 1:01 pm
Starting point: Ed's book and Graphic Standards (those details are debated and vetted). Not just graphically but understand why things are adjacent or detached from one another. Go through the upper tier manufacturer's details (Julius Blum for railing CR Lawrence for glass rails, etc.). Also study shop drawings and make friends with contractors and trades people - the best detail is one that conveys good information in a graphically clear manner (and include the correct notes).
Look for graphics - clarity to show each information that is critical in a manner that is easily understood by the GC/CM to coordinate trades and is clear to each trade. Details should also be organized in a manner that it is easy to find during construction.
Correctness of information and identifying what to exclude as well as what to include. This can conflict with clarity: tightly overlapping items may be pulled apart for the clarity of drawing. Vocabulary and proper identification of materials (and coordination with specifications) is not to be overlooked.
I would advise that it's important to see why an off-the-shelf detail is done the way that it is before trying to reconstruct a different approach. Whenever possible find good mentors in construction management and architecture & engineering to hear all the various perspectives. One pitfall I see with younger architects is the tendency to speak with subcontractors and the trades without understanding how they work together (window installer, mason, framer at a window to wall detail/ but forget to waterproof and close out the seems between each).
Note that there are ways to 'make it work' and better/best. Also, at times, speed of construction can affect how a particular detail might be done.
whistler
Nov 15, 17 3:39 pm
Keep it simple... it's harder than you think and try to learn about construction and the sequence of how stuff gets installed on site. The exposure to the real working conditions will open your eyes to why some details just work better than others. Look at bad details too and learn why they are bad or why they fail.
randomised
Nov 16, 17 3:12 am
Another tip is to investigate buildings that you love and see how they are put together and why, try to find out as much as possible from those buildings, visit them, read up on them and check the website of the architect and the builders and manufacturers that made it happen. A good project is often used for PR purposes by all parties involved, you can find some valuable insights about a project from the builders or facade manufacturers and the innovations they've implemented.
The German Detail magazine (they are bilingual, so no worries) mostly features high quality projects and themes (solid timber, prefab concrete, energy efficiency, etc.) and has great drawings you can study. Any office over here (NL) that is into quality building has some of their magazines on shelf, and to even have your work featured is a real seal of approval. I have worked at places that have their work featured in it and at places that didn't manage and you can clearly tell the difference.
masochist
Nov 16, 17 5:45 pm
thanks all - have already ordered Ed Ford's Details of Modern Architecture!
Koww
Nov 16, 17 9:29 pm
what’s the difference between details and minutia?
JLC-1
Nov 16, 17 9:48 pm
What separates children from men
Sam Apoc
Nov 17, 17 10:03 am
Liking these book recommendations...
Any suggestions on a good book dealing with heavy timber / wood frame construction methods?
Just an excerpt, but some useful diagrams in there. May purchase the full book.
randomised
Nov 17, 17 2:35 pm
They should have a Timber Construction Manual in English and their magazines are bilingual.
apscoradiales
Jan 21, 21 10:06 pm
German is not all that difficult. Also, there is always a dictionary. DETAIL does indeed have some rather interesting construction details. Unfortunately, many would prove too expensive in North America, and way too complicated for North American contractors to build.
apscoradiales
Jan 21, 21 10:14 pm
Forgot to add, DOMUS, and Italian architectural magazine, also has interesting articles and details.
randomised
Jan 22, 21 2:21 am
Not too complicated to build at all, don’t have to lower the bar so much, I believe even Bjarke has some North American projects in Detail magazine somewhere, even made it to a few covers with their stuff
thisisnotmyname
Jan 27, 21 3:21 pm
It really depends where you are in North America. There are extreme variations in the skill level of builders depending on what region of the USA you are in.
I am a designer (not architect), I was a carpenter for 10 years, I now specialize in building science and performance/passive home design exclusively. My suggestion would be while you're understanding the details, try to at the same time understand the science. If you don't understand the building science (WHY) you most likely don't need a vapour barrier but rather a vapour retarder instead in most cases than you can learn how to design custom homes rather than just spec homes. Not understanding the buidling science of a detail in my opinion there is no point in then even doing the detail and atleast if you don't understand it I guess just make sure it's passed off to someone who does if that realm of things doesn't interest you. I draw all of my details in 3d, I have a pretty awesome workflow using entirely sketchup/layout, I like the 3d stuff way more than the 2d but that's just me, I think it's easier to understand. My two cents.
PaulKersey
Jan 27, 21 1:58 pm
masochist - I think there should be a requirement for architects to do a wide variety of hands on construction work. There's no substitute for fieldwork and seeing what you have drawn being built. When I was in college I also worked framing houses - so in my CD class where we had to detail - draw a wood framed house - most people were lost, and I could draw those details in my sleep as I was building them also.
Detail wise - don't forget, in many cases 1 3D sketch is usually better than 4 various 2D drawings - the more 3D drawings of all kinds in a CD set the better, and much clearer for people building things.
Any suggestion how to be better at detailing ? I am in residential architecture. Most of my coworkers drawing look great . Any idea how I can improve on those skills ?
Go to the building site and see how your drawings translate into a building, it's an eye opener.
+++ What randomised wrote. Knowing how materials actually go together into an assembly put together on site will make you a better designer of details.
My first trip to a project under construction for which I'd drawn and redrawn a whole set of architectural and structural details was a great education. ("Ohhhh... so that's what that line means...")
Given that its not always feasible to go to site on a consistent basis and observe the ongoing process (IE - I can only get onto my site about once every two weeks at best), are there some good resources that can supplement site observation as well? Im approaching licensure in the next year or so and still often find myself struggling to get a totally 'right' detail drawn.
I'm going to second this question, not because my schedule doesn't allow for site visits, but because my firm has a way of denying almost every request of mine to see projects in person. Even projects I've completed as the architect. Even local ones. No no, I'm not bitter. The bright side is I've gotten extremely good at digging through progress reports so I can vicariously watch something go up.
It helps to talk or consult with suppliers (who normally provide shop drawings) and builders (the people hired to actually construct it) how this connects with that, and etc. Then check Graphic Standards or the google how materials and these details are represented in drawing (or you can make your own just make sure to provide a legend or callouts).
The suppliers/vendors are more than happy to help you learn the details, and they even will bring lunch. Detailing is never static the science and best practices are constantly changing/updating
Look up the manufacturers' details for the things you're detailing. So many times we try to just make something up when it has already been done before. Call up the rep or have them come to the office and ask as many questions as you can think of. Can this touch that? How do I transition from this material to that one? Why do you need that bead of sealant there? In what order does all this get installed? If I do this, will it be warrantable?
Agreed, I was trained to go to sweets catalogue for mnfr details, especially now adays they have 'em in pdf, revit, cad & skethcup most times
Actually, this is why in my opinion detailing has gone downhill in the last 50 years. If you take an off-the-shelf detail, you get an off-the-shelf result. Banal curtain walls everywhere. Banal hung ceilings. Banal column covers. Banal millwork. Good detailing is far more than just picking stuff out of a catalog.
won and done, I agree and disagree. Detailing has gone downhill in the last 50 years, but it isn't because people are choosing off-the-shelf details. It's because they don't know anything about the materials they are detailing.
You have to start somewhere. The vast majority of the problems I see in detailing aren't because the designer is trying to come up with something new in order to be innovative, it's because they are trying to come up with something (period). The lack of technical knowledge and acumen then result in poor details because the designer doesn't know enough to even get started.
So start with the off-the-shelf detail. Then, call in an expert (the manufacturer's rep), and learn from them ... you may learn there are important functions in the detail you didn't even know about. Then, if you really need to modify it to get to a different function or a different design aesthetic, hack the detail to suit your needs. Finally, check with the expert again to make sure it is within budget, buildable, and warrantable.
Obviously you modify the detail to fit your specific scenario. but imho manufacturer details are a great place to start besides your detail library or similar office project. "Great artist steal my friend" . another help to me in my career besides working w/ some great mentors is joining local csi chapter. monthly speakers shed a ton of light for me on various construction techniques and info
I would recommend Ed Ford's Details of Modern Architecture. Wonderfully drawn - and instructive about how materials go together by the masters.
If you're into Dutch architecture, it's in English, and features projects by Herman Hertzberger, MVRDV, UNStudio, Rem Koolhaas and some others: https://www.amazon.com/Architectural-Detail-Ed-Melet/dp/9056621858
details? we don't need to learn no stinkin details.lol
Thanks everyone for insight.. Yes going to site has been an eye opener. My goal is to learn to create a very solid set of construction document.
Starting point: Ed's book and Graphic Standards (those details are debated and vetted). Not just graphically but understand why things are adjacent or detached from one another. Go through the upper tier manufacturer's details (Julius Blum for railing CR Lawrence for glass rails, etc.). Also study shop drawings and make friends with contractors and trades people - the best detail is one that conveys good information in a graphically clear manner (and include the correct notes).
Look for graphics - clarity to show each information that is critical in a manner that is easily understood by the GC/CM to coordinate trades and is clear to each trade. Details should also be organized in a manner that it is easy to find during construction.
Correctness of information and identifying what to exclude as well as what to include. This can conflict with clarity: tightly overlapping items may be pulled apart for the clarity of drawing. Vocabulary and proper identification of materials (and coordination with specifications) is not to be overlooked.
I would advise that it's important to see why an off-the-shelf detail is done the way that it is before trying to reconstruct a different approach. Whenever possible find good mentors in construction management and architecture & engineering to hear all the various perspectives. One pitfall I see with younger architects is the tendency to speak with subcontractors and the trades without understanding how they work together (window installer, mason, framer at a window to wall detail/ but forget to waterproof and close out the seems between each).
Note that there are ways to 'make it work' and better/best. Also, at times, speed of construction can affect how a particular detail might be done.
Keep it simple... it's harder than you think and try to learn about construction and the sequence of how stuff gets installed on site. The exposure to the real working conditions will open your eyes to why some details just work better than others. Look at bad details too and learn why they are bad or why they fail.
Another tip is to investigate buildings that you love and see how they are put together and why, try to find out as much as possible from those buildings, visit them, read up on them and check the website of the architect and the builders and manufacturers that made it happen. A good project is often used for PR purposes by all parties involved, you can find some valuable insights about a project from the builders or facade manufacturers and the innovations they've implemented.
The German Detail magazine (they are bilingual, so no worries) mostly features high quality projects and themes (solid timber, prefab concrete, energy efficiency, etc.) and has great drawings you can study. Any office over here (NL) that is into quality building has some of their magazines on shelf, and to even have your work featured is a real seal of approval. I have worked at places that have their work featured in it and at places that didn't manage and you can clearly tell the difference.
thanks all - have already ordered Ed Ford's Details of Modern Architecture!
what’s the difference between details and minutia?
What separates children from men
Liking these book recommendations...
Any suggestions on a good book dealing with heavy timber / wood frame construction methods?
https://issuu.com/detail-magazine/docs/978-3-95553-353-3-bk-de_atlas_mehrg?e=8753616/48856955
Nice. If only I spoke German...
Did not know that Detail published some of their stuff on Issuu, however, so that is good to know. Thanks!
Found this on their issuu page as well:
https://issuu.com/detail-magaz...
Just an excerpt, but some useful diagrams in there. May purchase the full book.
They should have a Timber Construction Manual in English and their magazines are bilingual.
German is not all that difficult. Also, there is always a dictionary. DETAIL does indeed have some rather interesting construction details. Unfortunately, many would prove too expensive in North America, and way too complicated for North American contractors to build.
Forgot to add, DOMUS, and Italian architectural magazine, also has interesting articles and details.
Not too complicated to build at all, don’t have to lower the bar so much, I believe even Bjarke has some North American projects in Detail magazine somewhere, even made it to a few covers with their stuff
It really depends where you are in North America. There are extreme variations in the skill level of builders depending on what region of the USA you are in.
I am a designer (not architect), I was a carpenter for 10 years, I now specialize in building science and performance/passive home design exclusively. My suggestion would be while you're understanding the details, try to at the same time understand the science. If you don't understand the building science (WHY) you most likely don't need a vapour barrier but rather a vapour retarder instead in most cases than you can learn how to design custom homes rather than just spec homes. Not understanding the buidling science of a detail in my opinion there is no point in then even doing the detail and atleast if you don't understand it I guess just make sure it's passed off to someone who does if that realm of things doesn't interest you. I draw all of my details in 3d, I have a pretty awesome workflow using entirely sketchup/layout, I like the 3d stuff way more than the 2d but that's just me, I think it's easier to understand. My two cents.
masochist - I think there should be a requirement for architects to do a wide variety of hands on construction work. There's no substitute for fieldwork and seeing what you have drawn being built. When I was in college I also worked framing houses - so in my CD class where we had to detail - draw a wood framed house - most people were lost, and I could draw those details in my sleep as I was building them also.
Detail wise - don't forget, in many cases 1 3D sketch is usually better than 4 various 2D drawings - the more 3D drawings of all kinds in a CD set the better, and much clearer for people building things.