I'm a Canadian who will be finishing my M.Arch this spring, and I'm considering moving to Montreal post-grad. I was wondering if not speaking french would seriously hinder my ability to get a job in architecture in Montreal. Please let me know your thoughts and insights.
Thanks,
Aislin
Bench
Sep 27, 17 4:29 am
Yes, it will.
randomised
Sep 27, 17 5:47 am
Just made a weird subconscious connection but I suddenly need to know for no particular reason whatsoever, when one orders a Quarterpounder with cheese in Montreal, do they call it a Royale with cheese?
Non Sequitur
Sep 27, 17 9:43 am
It's called a "Quart de Livre avec fromage". Canada is still unfortunately backwards when speaking about weight... I guess a 1/4 pound burger still sounds better than 93g burger.
randomised
Sep 27, 17 11:04 am
Sounds complicated but a 93g burger doesn't sounds appetizing for sure
joseffischer
Sep 27, 17 11:12 am
You know marketing would round that up to 100g
Non Sequitur
Sep 27, 17 11:34 am
Let's talk when they come out with a half-kilo burger. (1-1/3 lbs)
randomised
Sep 27, 17 1:55 pm
In Dutch we (used to) call ½ kg a "pond" and 250g a "½ pond"
Non Sequitur
Sep 27, 17 9:38 am
Aislin, French is very much prevalent in Quebec. Although perhaps some large offices exist where English only can be accommodated, you'll likely be significantly handicapped since most Quebec offices produce french working drawings and both consultants and trades speak french.
French is also a requirement for a Quebec license and I believe you need to take an oral exam.
mjjjj
Sep 27, 17 10:52 am
Quebec government puts much effort to preserve their french heritage even when they were abandonned by the french during war. I imagine that numerous restrictions and regulations to put french language above english sometimes make it diffifult for non french speaking businesses including architecture in quebec, and thet ultimately hold back the economy as a whole.
Bench
Sep 27, 17 11:05 am
Have you ever actually been to/lived in Quebec?
Non Sequitur
Sep 27, 17 11:26 am
The economy is in no way held back because they place french above english.
mjjjj
Sep 27, 17 11:40 am
Yes, I lived there for five years and decided to leave for college because english market is larger than the french one. When I was there, regulations ranged from education all the way to street signs although I don't know any rules specific to architecture. If one speaks French, it wouldn't be any problem but I didn't. Toronto, New York with larger economies right next to it and Montreal asking french as a pre requisite was a no deal for me. But I believe McGill architecture is renowned and produces many recognized scholars and practitioners working all around the world.
Bench
Sep 27, 17 11:48 am
So how does it affect their economy?
mjjjj
Sep 27, 17 12:15 pm
Well, I am no economist so im only assuming but here's my thought. Toronto and montreal was in competition to become the major city of the country in early 1900s. Quebec, just like it is now has always had very nationalist views. One of the reasons why toronto now is much bigger than montreal is that many english speaking business owners left to toronto. In late 1900's seperatist, quebecois movement intensified and lead to kidnapping of some english polititians and some terrorist bombing in the city. Trudeau then famously said something i don't remember and brought in army to calm it down. The same political party during the terrorist attack has been in power for a long long time. i don't know if they are now. But my point is, quebec has nationalists tendencies as a province and less welcoming to non french speakers. Couple years ago on a news, an old lady was disrespected and yelled at in mcdonalds for ordering in english. Similar thing happened to me few times as well. With some exaggeration, its like saying if you don't speak french don't do business here. Go elsewhere. See how toronto and vancouver is full of immigrants and montreal has way way less. In NYC, there are plenty of chinese, latin americans who don’t even speak English who open up stores and start businesses. They help creating jobs and keep money moving. Quebec just is not a welcoming place for non french speaking people to start a business which probably affect the economy as a whole. I wrote a dam essay here. but that's my 2 cents.
Non Sequitur
Sep 27, 17 12:55 pm
I rarely speak french when in Montreal and I'm fully bilingual.
mjjjj
Sep 27, 17 1:10 pm
Ok, but you
don't run an architecture firm there.
Bench
Sep 28, 17 4:59 am
You have a lot of conjecture and anecdote in your response; 'truthiness' meter seems to be on the low side...
mjjjj
Sep 28, 17 10:22 am
Sounds like you two take it very personally on this. Are you guys from montreal? Like i said im no economist and this is only my opinion. All the historical ref I made are true tho and they back up what im saying. I don't mean to give you a whole canadian history lesson but montreal once was the capital but it is not anymore because of the dispute between french and english.
Non Sequitur
Sep 28, 17 10:41 am
Ottawa is the capital because it's almost dead centre between Quebec city and Toronto. Montreal was only briefly the capital in 1844... which is several years prior to actually being a country.
mjjjj
Sep 28, 17 11:41 am
Well ill be visiting next week and excited for it. Non Sequitur, are you from montreal?
Non Sequitur
Sep 28, 17 11:49 am
I'm not personally, although my father's side originate from there area. I do visit often and have a sister who lives there permanently. Enjoy.
joseffischer
Sep 27, 17 11:14 am
I've not visited any of Canada... to get licensed there you have to have an oral exam? What's that like, how long is it, who interviews you, etc?
Non Sequitur
Sep 27, 17 11:25 am
The oral exam, as far as I remember, is for reciprocity between provinces. For example, I am licensed in Ontario, but if I would like to also be licensed in Quebec, I need to pass a french language proficiency test. They are the only provincial body to have such requirement. Vivre la loi 101.... eye roll.
AdrianFGA
Sep 27, 17 4:49 pm
Vive la loi
spiketwig
Sep 27, 17 11:16 am
Limited experience but I believe yes it will significantly hinder you. We've looked at doing projects in Quebec and have been told we'd have to hire someone just to translate all the drawings into French... so if you don't speak French and you need to produce drawings that will be a problem.
Miles Jaffe
Sep 27, 17 12:39 pm
Pensez-vous vraiment que vous allez pouvoir travailler à Montréal si vous ne pouvez pas parler français?
Non Sequitur
Sep 27, 17 12:54 pm
Very good Miles, although the second "pouvez" is unnecessary. Should read "... travailler à Montréal sans parler français."
Miles Jaffe
Sep 27, 17 1:27 pm
Mon français est une merde.
randomised
Sep 27, 17 1:59 pm
Funny how much French I remember from high school, I just knew it had to be according to NS's correction. Maybe I can go for that Quebec license one day, ha!
Miles Jaffe
Sep 27, 17 2:49 pm
Watashi wa nihongo ga warui desu.
randomised
Sep 27, 17 3:07 pm
My Japanese is a little rusty unfortunately
Bench
Sep 28, 17 4:58 am
Je pense'que c'est seulement 'merde' Miles
randomised
Sep 28, 17 5:34 am
Bench, in that case it wouldn't be merde at all
Rusty!
Sep 27, 17 6:26 pm
A good friend did just that about 7 years ago. And while he was able to get a job in Montreal with very poor French, he felt he was severely limited in career opportunities. Eventually left for real Canada.
Hello architectural think tank,
I'm a Canadian who will be finishing my M.Arch this spring, and I'm considering moving to Montreal post-grad. I was wondering if not speaking french would seriously hinder my ability to get a job in architecture in Montreal. Please let me know your thoughts and insights.
Thanks,
Aislin
Yes, it will.
Just made a weird subconscious connection but I suddenly need to know for no particular reason whatsoever, when one orders a Quarterpounder with cheese in Montreal, do they call it a Royale with cheese?
It's called a "Quart de Livre avec fromage". Canada is still unfortunately backwards when speaking about weight... I guess a 1/4 pound burger still sounds better than 93g burger.
Sounds complicated but a 93g burger doesn't sounds appetizing for sure
You know marketing would round that up to 100g
Let's talk when they come out with a half-kilo burger. (1-1/3 lbs)
In Dutch we (used to) call ½ kg a "pond" and 250g a "½ pond"
Aislin, French is very much prevalent in Quebec. Although perhaps some large offices exist where English only can be accommodated, you'll likely be significantly handicapped since most Quebec offices produce french working drawings and both consultants and trades speak french.
French is also a requirement for a Quebec license and I believe you need to take an oral exam.
Quebec government puts much effort to preserve their french heritage even when they were abandonned by the french during war. I imagine that numerous restrictions and regulations to put french language above english sometimes make it diffifult for non french speaking businesses including architecture in quebec, and thet ultimately hold back the economy as a whole.
Have you ever actually been to/lived in Quebec?
The economy is in no way held back because they place french above english.
Yes, I lived there for five years and decided to leave for college because english market is larger than the french one. When I was there, regulations ranged from education all the way to street signs although I don't know any rules specific to architecture. If one speaks French, it wouldn't be any problem but I didn't. Toronto, New York with larger economies right next to it and Montreal asking french as a pre requisite was a no deal for me. But I believe McGill architecture is renowned and produces many recognized scholars and practitioners working all around the world.
So how does it affect their economy?
Well, I am no economist so im only assuming but here's my thought. Toronto and montreal was in competition to become the major city of the country in early 1900s. Quebec, just like it is now has always had very nationalist views. One of the reasons why toronto now is much bigger than montreal is that many english speaking business owners left to toronto. In late 1900's seperatist, quebecois movement intensified and lead to kidnapping of some english polititians and some terrorist bombing in the city. Trudeau then famously said something i don't remember and brought in army to calm it down. The same political party during the terrorist attack has been in power for a long long time. i don't know if they are now. But my point is, quebec has nationalists tendencies as a province and less welcoming to non french speakers. Couple years ago on a news, an old lady was disrespected and yelled at in mcdonalds for ordering in english. Similar thing happened to me few times as well. With some exaggeration, its like saying if you don't speak french don't do business here. Go elsewhere. See how toronto and vancouver is full of immigrants and montreal has way way less. In NYC, there are plenty of chinese, latin americans who don’t even speak English who open up stores and start businesses. They help creating jobs and keep money moving. Quebec just is not a welcoming place for non french speaking people to start a business which probably affect the economy as a whole. I wrote a dam essay here. but that's my 2 cents.
I rarely speak french when in Montreal and I'm fully bilingual.
Ok, but you don't run an architecture firm there.
You have a lot of conjecture and anecdote in your response; 'truthiness' meter seems to be on the low side...
Sounds like you two take it very personally on this. Are you guys from montreal? Like i said im no economist and this is only my opinion. All the historical ref I made are true tho and they back up what im saying. I don't mean to give you a whole canadian history lesson but montreal once was the capital but it is not anymore because of the dispute between french and english.
Ottawa is the capital because it's almost dead centre between Quebec city and Toronto. Montreal was only briefly the capital in 1844... which is several years prior to actually being a country.
Well ill be visiting next week and excited for it. Non Sequitur, are you from montreal?
I'm not personally, although my father's side originate from there area. I do visit often and have a sister who lives there permanently. Enjoy.
I've not visited any of Canada... to get licensed there you have to have an oral exam? What's that like, how long is it, who interviews you, etc?
The oral exam, as far as I remember, is for reciprocity between provinces. For example, I am licensed in Ontario, but if I would like to also be licensed in Quebec, I need to pass a french language proficiency test. They are the only provincial body to have such requirement. Vivre la loi 101.... eye roll.
Vive la loi
Limited experience but I believe yes it will significantly hinder you. We've looked at doing projects in Quebec and have been told we'd have to hire someone just to translate all the drawings into French... so if you don't speak French and you need to produce drawings that will be a problem.
Pensez-vous vraiment que vous allez pouvoir travailler à Montréal si vous ne pouvez pas parler français?
Very good Miles, although the second "pouvez" is unnecessary. Should read "... travailler à Montréal sans parler français."
Mon français est une merde.
Funny how much French I remember from high school, I just knew it had to be according to NS's correction. Maybe I can go for that Quebec license one day, ha!
Watashi wa nihongo ga warui desu.
My Japanese is a little rusty unfortunately
Je pense'que c'est seulement 'merde' Miles
Bench, in that case it wouldn't be merde at all
A good friend did just that about 7 years ago. And while he was able to get a job in Montreal with very poor French, he felt he was severely limited in career opportunities. Eventually left for real Canada.
Do you have a Google alert for "rusty" ;)