(I guess I am writing to see what others response would be about a situation that I have come to know about from a friend.)
I am an architect in Florida. I have a friend who moved back to Georgia and is trying to start up a small firm with another guy. My friend is not licensed but his partner is. The interesting part is what my friend has come across when working with the local county & city governments where his small firm will be located. He's never dealt with them previously so he was unaware of how they engaged in business. One thing to note is that his uncle is a plans examiner/code official in a neighboring county.
My friend mentioned that the county & city will have small to mid sized projects built (i.e. Meeting room renovations, animal shelters, etc) Some of which are extensive and deal with assembly spaces etc. The odd part is that they will employ a local engineer to do the design & the local AHJ will accept the engineers seal for the architectural documents. My friend said that the county officials seem unaware of the state statue requirements for design professionals such as architects and engineers signing & sealing. I have a hard time believing that. From what my friend has told me, this local engineer's wife is on the city board as well.
To make matters even more interesting...My friends uncle is the code official for a neighboring county. He was a drafting teacher many years ago in the 80's. From what I can tell, contractors have been engaging his uncle for construction documents for their projects. So his uncle has been drafting architectural sheets & then having a local MEP engineer sign/seal his documents. My friend has confronted his uncle about this practice, but his uncle says that he's contacted the Georgia Sec of State and they say any design professional can seal architectural documents. It seems that all the surrounding AHJs accept this activity as well. Ive tried telling my friend that his uncle is engaged in unlicensed activity & what he is doing is ethically wrong. My friend can't accept that his uncle of all people is keeping this revenue for himself by doing what he is doing.
Just wanted to get the feel of what others think. I know it sounds like a odd corrupt situation. My friend says this is just the way it is in Georgia. That no one cares & they all benefit from doing this.
Is there any way of reporting so that something can be done. Ive tried to report this to the GA Sec of State, but they seem to ignore or maybe they dont care about what goes on outside Atlanta.
Thanks.
x-jla
Apr 21, 17 7:39 pm
Omg. Get a life
x-jla
Apr 21, 17 7:55 pm
I miss the days where being a snitch had social consequences...
JonathanLivingston
Apr 21, 17 8:15 pm
I don't think there is even anything to snitch on here. Sounds like some hurt feelings looking for a problem to justify their perceived superiority.
JonathanLivingston
Apr 21, 17 8:11 pm
Yeah I don't see what the problem here is. Anyone can draw anything. If the engineer stamping wants to take liability that's his issue. Architects aren't as important as we think we are.
jrjrdiablo
Apr 21, 17 8:33 pm
huh? No problem here? Its ok to plan stamp? Its ok for an engineer to do architecture? Are any of you actually licensed yourselves.
Non Sequitur
Apr 21, 17 8:49 pm
Hilarious.
Jr, listen to Jon above.
jrjrdiablo
Apr 21, 17 8:54 pm
Well I guess I should do structural or mep design & seal those drawings... Then next week, I'd like to try my hand at dentistry...I have a few tools, so why not.
Non Sequitur
Apr 21, 17 9:00 pm
Sure. Why not?
What we do is not difficult. Too many fools believe we're equal to doctors.
jrjrdiablo
Apr 21, 17 9:03 pm
Then why even get licensed to begin with.
JonathanLivingston
Apr 21, 17 9:10 pm
Being licensed doesn't actually provide value. It provides opportunities for yourself
JonathanLivingston
Apr 21, 17 9:11 pm
For instance the opportunity to design projects without someone else having to take the liability. And the ability for you to charge for that liability that you are taking... Easy but stressful money.
JonathanLivingston
Apr 21, 17 9:08 pm
Its ok for an engineer to do architecture? Yes exactly. Anyone can "do" architecture. The issue is one of liability. You are just as welcome to draw and stamp all of your framing plans, mep plans and steel drawings. If your willing to take on that liability. You had a structural exam in you yesting right? Most jurisdictions require a "design professional" stamp. You are probably not willing to do that because you don't possess the specialzied knowledge to adaquately preform that job to the expectation of a professional standard of care. Conversely just about any engineer probably has the skills to carry out most small hell even large projects. The specialized knowledge needed to create a pleasing design and people skills to manage that process of negotiating that is design is a very different thing than simply statisfying the constraints of life safety.
You appear to not really understand your own value.
jrjrdiablo
Apr 21, 17 9:11 pm
And I think you are misinformed about state statues regarding who can do what. Is it ok for an engineer to practice architecture, no it is not. There are specific rules regarding disciplines & what they are allowed to do.
JonathanLivingston
Apr 21, 17 9:29 pm
These unlicensed designers are doing our architecture!
Insurance is the reason if any that would require both an architect and an engineer stamp a plan set. That requirement would come from the local jurisdictions insurance. But I don't think that's very common. Most just require that the liability be assigned not diversived. If that is the case in your jurisdiction youre the exception and not typical. Even more of an exception globally where the thought of diversived liability like that is usually because they are not so litigious. Did you know most of the world doesn't license architects, but it is much more common to license engineers?
We ain't shit. Get off your
jrjrdiablo
Apr 21, 17 9:38 pm
I dont know what state you are in, but in Florida they prosecute unlicensed activity on a daily basis. I could care less about residential design...its allowed in the state statutes. Again this isnt about what you feel is ok or what you think the world is like....who gives a shit, Its what the law says. Why even bother going to school, internship & then getting licensed if law that requires those things isnt even backed up.
JonathanLivingston
Apr 21, 17 9:41 pm
Why even bother going to school, internship and then get licensed? That's a good question you should have been able to answer without defaulting to "because it's required by law"
JonathanLivingston
Apr 21, 17 9:43 pm
Sucks this guy isn't in Florida then. Cause we all know Florida is the cutting edge. And there you could get this guy taken down! That dirty dirty guy who stole your church project.
x-jla
Apr 21, 17 10:02 pm
Why bother going to culinary school...everyone is allowed to cook...hey, shitty chefs should just pass laws to ban unlicensed cooking so they can sell their shitty food. That will
elevate the profession.
JonathanLivingston
Apr 21, 17 9:44 pm
This is literally how 90 percent of America gets built. It's shitty repetative utilitarian shit for a reason. Cause it's done by piss poor designers and engineers who only care that things "work"
Non Sequitur
Apr 21, 17 9:54 pm
Because we all know Florida is tops.
x-jla
Apr 21, 17 9:57 pm
Top in bath salt addiction maybe...
jrjrdiablo
Apr 21, 17 10:06 pm
You got me......sorry to bother you with all this.
JonathanLivingston
Apr 21, 17 10:25 pm
You might want to apologise to your friend if you counciled them to confront their family member like that. And to go around calling these small AHJs corrupt. Shame.
Non Sequitur
Apr 21, 17 10:17 pm
It was no bother.
archi_dude
Apr 23, 17 9:57 am
Jr, don't attempt to argue any logic here. It's mostly a forum full of architect artists who must either be supported by some trust or really subscribe to the suffering for the art theory. Just talk to the local AIA or call the state board yourself and ask the hypothetical if it really bothers you or your friend that much. And yes, if you are trying to expand your business and a large amount of work is being illegally done in your area you have every right to be pissed.
Non Sequitur
Apr 23, 17 11:07 am
says the Cheeto
supporter.
archi_dude
Apr 23, 17 1:57 pm
Thanks for proving my point. Because I'm only motivated by money and getting a Mercedes! It surely has nothing to do with finding a way to do something I love but be able to support a family and have decent job security. I must be an evil corporate capitalist that fully
supports our cheetoh. Ha ha, I hadn't heard that one yet though I will use it in the future thanks Mr. Sequitur.
x-jla
Apr 23, 17 9:04 pm
Protectionism is for babies
Volunteer
Apr 23, 17 3:47 pm
I think unless an engineer has designed a building that focuses the sun's rays on cars parked across the street and causes them to explode he shouldn't be allowed to stamp drawings. I mean that is really the sine qua non of the profession. When an engineer achieves that he is up there with the 'best of the best' architects. Zap. Or paper buildings for "folks" dying of AIDS,- but that is another story.
JonathanLivingston
Apr 23, 17 7:40 pm
Archi-dude, you guys are free to go pursuing this kind of thing if you want and calling us not real architects cause it makes you feel good.
This kind of protectionist bullshit has done real harm to the profession. You're worried about someone stealing your work but neither of you understand it is probably not work you deserve or want. The value you provide is not getting the client the permit. The law is not what provides your value or authority. But this kind of stuff sure leads people to believe it does and that is a disservice to our whole profession.
When was the last time you had a good client who just needed a permit? How often does your pain in the ass client already know the design but just needs it drawn? Just needs to get it constructed? Relying on the law to require an architect leads to shitty architects, shitty clients, a bloated profession and shitty buildings. Instead how about you guys focus on your own work. Show that the value you provide is intrinsic to your work.
As far as no can tell there is no issue here other than your worry about your protectionist way being threatened. No life safety issue has been raised, no contractual issue to parties involved, no detriment to the general public. Articulate a real issue if you have a complaint. Contribute something positive otherwise your contributing to the downward spiral of American architecture.
x-jla
Apr 23, 17 9:03 pm
Amen!
Non Sequitur
Apr 23, 17 7:55 pm
Archi-dude, I support a family just fine in this dress sociolinguistic without succumbing to racist and inane politics.
archietechie
Apr 23, 17 8:10 pm
^ Yeah, because screw geopolitical boundaries and context. Btw, how's the free speech coming along with M103 in play? *grabs popcorn*
Non Sequitur
Apr 23, 17 8:14 pm
It's just one wanker drumming up votes for himself. It's not a real thing. Idiots like to think it is.
archietechie
Apr 23, 17 8:21 pm
Not real you say? Till your MPs passed the motion just last mth. Hope the wanker isn't your best bud currently in office then ;)
Non Sequitur
Apr 23, 17 8:29 pm
Read my last part about idiots.
archietechie
Apr 23, 17 8:33 pm
Translation - It's not real if you don't believe it's real. Sounds like the perfect definition of an "idiot" to me, that or in a state of denial, take your pick.
P.S.:Climate-change deniers share that logic too.
archi_dude
Apr 23, 17 9:06 pm
Not really sure where I stated my support for Trump? I purely stated I'm not behind the architect as artist movement to reassert our value. I'm sorry my differing views and interest in the technical aspects of project delivery are so offensive to you that you had to start hurling insults. Jonathons post is much more affective in trying to sway my opinions and brings up great points.
JonathanLivingston
Apr 23, 17 9:32 pm
I hear what your saying about throwing all of your weight behind the architect as artist movement for establishing value. There are most certainly many other important values, technical and project delivery like are two great other.
JonathanLivingston
Apr 23, 17 9:34 pm
The legislating of that value. And then the fucking whining about it as this post does cheapens and distracts from all of those values you focus on bringing as well!
JonathanLivingston
Apr 23, 17 11:02 pm
No I don't think so. And people don't normally do that Rick. Not that it really matters. We don't need a consensus of anonymous idiots.
JonathanLivingston
Apr 23, 17 11:48 pm
Rick this truely made me laugh out loud. Thank you.
LightMyFire66
Apr 28, 17 11:07 am
Taken from a Letter for Permit Application in response to a question from a permit reviewer in 2015 -
The Maryland Design Boards acknowledge this type of overlap which is typical of many types of work including ours. I am referencing the “Licensed Professionals’ Overlapping Practice Guide for Local Government Officials” document issued by Maryland Design Boards, 500 N. Calvert Street, Room 308, Baltimore, MD 21202, as revised September 2006 (Law Excerpts Updated February 2012). They advise:
Page 4: Similarly, the Code of Maryland Regulations, 09.23.03.09, Sealing Requirements, governing professional engineers, provides in the pertinent part as follows:
“A licensee may sign and seal plans, specifications, drawings, reports, or other documents that are required to be signed and sealed pursuant to the Business Occupations and Professions Article, 14-403, Annotated Code of Maryland, only if the following are met:
The licensee is competent in the subject matter of those documents by virtue of education or experience, or both…”
Page 6: The following procedure is suggested to local government officials when they are presented with a set of multi-disciplined construction documents, and it appears to the local government official that the design professional who has sealed the construction documents may not be qualified in the subject area.
Review the submissions sealed by a licensed design professional without respect to the appropriateness of a particular seal. Following the review, contact the design professional whose seal appears on the construction documents and request an opportunity for review of the appropriateness of the seal applied in the specific case…”
I request that for this project, given that the work is in my area of expertise and supported by direct employees with registration and specific competencies in specialized areas of the work, that my seal and signature be accepted for the set.
z6jbishop
Jun 16, 17 10:42 am
Engineers cannot seal something that isn't their work. It is unlawful and breaks the ethics code.
oooooooo1
Oct 8, 17 2:27 am
WTF. MEP, what have you consultant haz to be reg in that state. Drink beers on the reg, good times on the reg. Yeah i thought i tagent or now i segue cus its the new word. But really on blast like that.
Mitch Chazworth gives 100 internets to OP for making luls cause there are no bill codes for BS.
MC
Big Duddy
Mar 7, 19 1:56 pm
I'mI'm a plans designer here in Florida. I'm not a license architect. I primarily do residential Home designs, additions, etc. Also live in the area where there is a lot of farms so barns are quite the norm as well as other ag-related buildings. also, there is ways for a person like me to participate in commercial projects. It's all in the wording and semantics of things. As long as I'm working at the direction and under the supervision of the engineer of record, I'm totally legit to do that type of thing. I may not have the stylist accused of a 20-year architect or display Spanish revival or art deco designs in my homes and buildings but I promise you a lot of people would rather go with me then the average architect in my area. The average architect in my area runs from $7 a square foot to $10 a square foot for your average custom home design. My prices begin at a dollar per square foot for home design. It's not hard to see why somebody would choose to go with me over them. At the end of the day most people just want a permit so they can build a home.I promise I'm not out here getting rich pretending I'm an architect. I've never called my cell phone and never will. I'm a plans designer. I'm proud to say I didn't spend $200,000 going to school to do something that I can do without that degree LOL. Would it be cool to have it didn't say that I was that person and have the licensing and ability to do all that, yeah it would be pretty cool. But it's also pretty cool doing what I do on a daily basis and interacting with customers contractors engineers and not having the liability on my shoulders. I bet you I do sleep a little better at night then the average architect in my area. Hopefully people can see that I'm not out here making $1000000 trying to get rich and take your business. I'm just a normal guy with a wife and kids. I just want to make a few bucks to support my family and maybe have a hobby.
Non Sequitur
Mar 7, 19 2:04 pm
you get what you pay for. Plenty of folks will balk at even 1-2$/sq.ft for design. We had some wanker a few weeks ago in these forums claiming to charge 50cents per heated sq.ft. Race to the bottom is what it is. No thank you. I'll stick with my lump sum and multi-million $ commercial projects.
Big Duddy
Mar 7, 19 2:43 pm
Sure, I imagine that would be one of the main reasons to be licensed. I cannot participate in those types of projects nor do I want to. I like the quick turnaround on residential home designs. Always getting to start something new. I hate being mired in project that drags on forever. To reach their own though.
Steeplechase
Mar 7, 19 11:30 pm
Commercial buildings intended for public use are not exempt in Florida and engineers cannot offer architectural services. Also can’t imagine why a decent engineer would assume liability for moisture and water infiltration in Florida, but I’m guessing you just say slap some stucco on CMU and call it a day.
Big Duddy
Mar 8, 19 6:41 am
481.229(2)
Big Duddy
Mar 8, 19 6:42 am
2) Nothing contained in this part shall be construed to prevent any employee of an architect from acting in any capacity under the instruction, control, or supervision of the architect or to prevent any person from acting as a contractor in the execution of work designed by an architect.
Big Duddy
Mar 8, 19 6:43 am
(4) Notwithstanding the provisions of this part or of any other law, no registered engineer whose principal practice is civil or structural engineering, or employee or subordinate under the responsible supervision or control of the engineer, is precluded from performing architectural services which are purely incidental to his or her engineering practice, nor is any registered architect, or employee or subordinate under the responsible supervision or control of such architect, precluded from performing engineering services which are purely incidental to his or her architectural practice.
(I guess I am writing to see what others response would be about a situation that I have come to know about from a friend.)
I am an architect in Florida. I have a friend who moved back to Georgia and is trying to start up a small firm with another guy. My friend is not licensed but his partner is. The interesting part is what my friend has come across when working with the local county & city governments where his small firm will be located. He's never dealt with them previously so he was unaware of how they engaged in business. One thing to note is that his uncle is a plans examiner/code official in a neighboring county.
My friend mentioned that the county & city will have small to mid sized projects built (i.e. Meeting room renovations, animal shelters, etc) Some of which are extensive and deal with assembly spaces etc. The odd part is that they will employ a local engineer to do the design & the local AHJ will accept the engineers seal for the architectural documents. My friend said that the county officials seem unaware of the state statue requirements for design professionals such as architects and engineers signing & sealing. I have a hard time believing that. From what my friend has told me, this local engineer's wife is on the city board as well.
To make matters even more interesting...My friends uncle is the code official for a neighboring county. He was a drafting teacher many years ago in the 80's. From what I can tell, contractors have been engaging his uncle for construction documents for their projects. So his uncle has been drafting architectural sheets & then having a local MEP engineer sign/seal his documents. My friend has confronted his uncle about this practice, but his uncle says that he's contacted the Georgia Sec of State and they say any design professional can seal architectural documents. It seems that all the surrounding AHJs accept this activity as well. Ive tried telling my friend that his uncle is engaged in unlicensed activity & what he is doing is ethically wrong. My friend can't accept that his uncle of all people is keeping this revenue for himself by doing what he is doing.
Just wanted to get the feel of what others think. I know it sounds like a odd corrupt situation. My friend says this is just the way it is in Georgia. That no one cares & they all benefit from doing this.
Is there any way of reporting so that something can be done. Ive tried to report this to the GA Sec of State, but they seem to ignore or maybe they dont care about what goes on outside Atlanta.
Thanks.
Omg. Get a life
I miss the days where being a snitch had social consequences...
I don't think there is even anything to snitch on here. Sounds like some hurt feelings looking for a problem to justify their perceived superiority.
Yeah I don't see what the problem here is. Anyone can draw anything. If the engineer stamping wants to take liability that's his issue. Architects aren't as important as we think we are.
huh? No problem here? Its ok to plan stamp? Its ok for an engineer to do architecture? Are any of you actually licensed yourselves.
Hilarious.
Jr, listen to Jon above.
Well I guess I should do structural or mep design & seal those drawings... Then next week, I'd like to try my hand at dentistry...I have a few tools, so why not.
Sure. Why not?
What we do is not difficult. Too many fools believe we're equal to doctors.
Then why even get licensed to begin with.
Being licensed doesn't actually provide value. It provides opportunities for yourself
For instance the opportunity to design projects without someone else having to take the liability. And the ability for you to charge for that liability that you are taking... Easy but stressful money.
Its ok for an engineer to do architecture? Yes exactly. Anyone can "do" architecture. The issue is one of liability. You are just as welcome to draw and stamp all of your framing plans, mep plans and steel drawings. If your willing to take on that liability. You had a structural exam in you yesting right? Most jurisdictions require a "design professional" stamp. You are probably not willing to do that because you don't possess the specialzied knowledge to adaquately preform that job to the expectation of a professional standard of care. Conversely just about any engineer probably has the skills to carry out most small hell even large projects. The specialized knowledge needed to create a pleasing design and people skills to manage that process of negotiating that is design is a very different thing than simply statisfying the constraints of life safety. You appear to not really understand your own value.
And I think you are misinformed about state statues regarding who can do what. Is it ok for an engineer to practice architecture, no it is not. There are specific rules regarding disciplines & what they are allowed to do.
These unlicensed designers are doing our architecture! Insurance is the reason if any that would require both an architect and an engineer stamp a plan set. That requirement would come from the local jurisdictions insurance. But I don't think that's very common. Most just require that the liability be assigned not diversived. If that is the case in your jurisdiction youre the exception and not typical. Even more of an exception globally where the thought of diversived liability like that is usually because they are not so litigious. Did you know most of the world doesn't license architects, but it is much more common to license engineers? We ain't shit. Get off your
I dont know what state you are in, but in Florida they prosecute unlicensed activity on a daily basis. I could care less about residential design...its allowed in the state statutes. Again this isnt about what you feel is ok or what you think the world is like....who gives a shit, Its what the law says. Why even bother going to school, internship & then getting licensed if law that requires those things isnt even backed up.
Why even bother going to school, internship and then get licensed? That's a good question you should have been able to answer without defaulting to "because it's required by law"
Sucks this guy isn't in Florida then. Cause we all know Florida is the cutting edge. And there you could get this guy taken down! That dirty dirty guy who stole your church project.
Why bother going to culinary school...everyone is allowed to cook...hey, shitty chefs should just pass laws to ban unlicensed cooking so they can sell their shitty food. That will
elevate the profession.
This is literally how 90 percent of America gets built. It's shitty repetative utilitarian shit for a reason. Cause it's done by piss poor designers and engineers who only care that things "work"
Because we all know Florida is tops.
Top in bath salt addiction maybe...
You got me......sorry to bother you with all this.
You might want to apologise to your friend if you counciled them to confront their family member like that. And to go around calling these small AHJs corrupt. Shame.
It was no bother.
Jr, don't attempt to argue any logic here. It's mostly a forum full of architect artists who must either be supported by some trust or really subscribe to the suffering for the art theory. Just talk to the local AIA or call the state board yourself and ask the hypothetical if it really bothers you or your friend that much. And yes, if you are trying to expand your business and a large amount of work is being illegally done in your area you have every right to be pissed.
says the Cheeto supporter.
Thanks for proving my point. Because I'm only motivated by money and getting a Mercedes! It surely has nothing to do with finding a way to do something I love but be able to support a family and have decent job security. I must be an evil corporate capitalist that fully
supports our cheetoh. Ha ha, I hadn't heard that one yet though I will use it in the future thanks Mr. Sequitur.
Protectionism is for babies
I think unless an engineer has designed a building that focuses the sun's rays on cars parked across the street and causes them to explode he shouldn't be allowed to stamp drawings. I mean that is really the sine qua non of the profession. When an engineer achieves that he is up there with the 'best of the best' architects. Zap. Or paper buildings for "folks" dying of AIDS,- but that is another story.
Archi-dude, you guys are free to go pursuing this kind of thing if you want and calling us not real architects cause it makes you feel good. This kind of protectionist bullshit has done real harm to the profession. You're worried about someone stealing your work but neither of you understand it is probably not work you deserve or want. The value you provide is not getting the client the permit. The law is not what provides your value or authority. But this kind of stuff sure leads people to believe it does and that is a disservice to our whole profession. When was the last time you had a good client who just needed a permit? How often does your pain in the ass client already know the design but just needs it drawn? Just needs to get it constructed? Relying on the law to require an architect leads to shitty architects, shitty clients, a bloated profession and shitty buildings. Instead how about you guys focus on your own work. Show that the value you provide is intrinsic to your work. As far as no can tell there is no issue here other than your worry about your protectionist way being threatened. No life safety issue has been raised, no contractual issue to parties involved, no detriment to the general public. Articulate a real issue if you have a complaint. Contribute something positive otherwise your contributing to the downward spiral of American architecture.
Amen!
Archi-dude, I support a family just fine in this dress sociolinguistic without succumbing to racist and inane politics.
^ Yeah, because screw geopolitical boundaries and context. Btw, how's the free speech coming along with M103 in play? *grabs popcorn*
It's just one wanker drumming up votes for himself. It's not a real thing. Idiots like to think it is.
Not real you say? Till your MPs passed the motion just last mth. Hope the wanker isn't your best bud currently in office then ;)
Read my last part about idiots.
Translation - It's not real if you don't believe it's real. Sounds like the perfect definition of an "idiot" to me, that or in a state of denial, take your pick.
P.S.:Climate-change deniers share that logic too.
Not really sure where I stated my support for Trump? I purely stated I'm not behind the architect as artist movement to reassert our value. I'm sorry my differing views and interest in the technical aspects of project delivery are so offensive to you that you had to start hurling insults. Jonathons post is much more affective in trying to sway my opinions and brings up great points.
I hear what your saying about throwing all of your weight behind the architect as artist movement for establishing value. There are most certainly many other important values, technical and project delivery like are two great other.
The legislating of that value. And then the fucking whining about it as this post does cheapens and distracts from all of those values you focus on bringing as well!
No I don't think so. And people don't normally do that Rick. Not that it really matters. We don't need a consensus of anonymous idiots.
Rick this truely made me laugh out loud. Thank you.
Taken from a Letter for Permit Application in response to a question from a permit reviewer in 2015 -
The Maryland Design Boards acknowledge this type of overlap which is typical of many types of work including ours. I am referencing the “Licensed Professionals’ Overlapping Practice Guide for Local Government Officials” document issued by Maryland Design Boards, 500 N. Calvert Street, Room 308, Baltimore, MD 21202, as revised September 2006 (Law Excerpts Updated February 2012). They advise:
Page 4: Similarly, the Code of Maryland Regulations, 09.23.03.09, Sealing Requirements, governing professional engineers, provides in the pertinent part as follows:
“A licensee may sign and seal plans, specifications, drawings, reports, or other documents that are required to be signed and sealed pursuant to the Business Occupations and Professions Article, 14-403, Annotated Code of Maryland, only if the following are met:
Page 6: The following procedure is suggested to local government officials when they are presented with a set of multi-disciplined construction documents, and it appears to the local government official that the design professional who has sealed the construction documents may not be qualified in the subject area.
I request that for this project, given that the work is in my area of expertise and supported by direct employees with registration and specific competencies in specialized areas of the work, that my seal and signature be accepted for the set.
Engineers cannot seal something that isn't their work. It is unlawful and breaks the ethics code.
WTF. MEP, what have you consultant haz to be reg in that state. Drink beers on the reg, good times on the reg. Yeah i thought i tagent or now i segue cus its the new word. But really on blast like that.
Mitch Chazworth gives 100 internets to OP for making luls cause there are no bill codes for BS.
MC
I'mI'm a plans designer here in Florida. I'm not a license architect. I primarily do residential Home designs, additions, etc. Also live in the area where there is a lot of farms so barns are quite the norm as well as other ag-related buildings. also, there is ways for a person like me to participate in commercial projects. It's all in the wording and semantics of things. As long as I'm working at the direction and under the supervision of the engineer of record, I'm totally legit to do that type of thing. I may not have the stylist accused of a 20-year architect or display Spanish revival or art deco designs in my homes and buildings but I promise you a lot of people would rather go with me then the average architect in my area. The average architect in my area runs from $7 a square foot to $10 a square foot for your average custom home design. My prices begin at a dollar per square foot for home design. It's not hard to see why somebody would choose to go with me over them. At the end of the day most people just want a permit so they can build a home.I promise I'm not out here getting rich pretending I'm an architect. I've never called my cell phone and never will. I'm a plans designer. I'm proud to say I didn't spend $200,000 going to school to do something that I can do without that degree LOL. Would it be cool to have it didn't say that I was that person and have the licensing and ability to do all that, yeah it would be pretty cool. But it's also pretty cool doing what I do on a daily basis and interacting with customers contractors engineers and not having the liability on my shoulders. I bet you I do sleep a little better at night then the average architect in my area. Hopefully people can see that I'm not out here making $1000000 trying to get rich and take your business. I'm just a normal guy with a wife and kids. I just want to make a few bucks to support my family and maybe have a hobby.
you get what you pay for. Plenty of folks will balk at even 1-2$/sq.ft for design. We had some wanker a few weeks ago in these forums claiming to charge 50cents per heated sq.ft. Race to the bottom is what it is. No thank you. I'll stick with my lump sum and multi-million $ commercial projects.
Sure, I imagine that would be one of the main reasons to be licensed. I cannot participate in those types of projects nor do I want to. I like the quick turnaround on residential home designs. Always getting to start something new. I hate being mired in project that drags on forever. To reach their own though.
Commercial buildings intended for public use are not exempt in Florida and engineers cannot offer architectural services. Also can’t imagine why a decent engineer would assume liability for moisture and water infiltration in Florida, but I’m guessing you just say slap some stucco on CMU and call it a day.
481.229(2)
2) Nothing contained in this part shall be construed to prevent any employee of an architect from acting in any capacity under the instruction, control, or supervision of the architect or to prevent any person from acting as a contractor in the execution of work designed by an architect.
(4) Notwithstanding the provisions of this part or of any other law, no registered engineer whose principal practice is civil or structural engineering, or employee or subordinate under the responsible supervision or control of the engineer, is precluded from performing architectural services which are purely incidental to his or her engineering practice, nor is any registered architect, or employee or subordinate under the responsible supervision or control of such architect, precluded from performing engineering services which are purely incidental to his or her architectural practice.