Well, I'm a junior at the University of Utah and am almost done with my bachelor's degree in writing and rhetoric studies. I was going to pursue a doctorate in creative writing, however I picked up an internship at an architectural firm, fell in love with it, and now have to simultaneous internships. I currently have a 3.8 GPA (which I've heard doesn't matter as much as I wish it would), my "mock" gre scores were mid 150's to about 161, and I have fairly extensive experience with art (I've had writings and poetry published, and paintings and drawings on display). Essentially, what I'm wondering is how much of the Ivy League school's "welcoming those without an architectural background" is fluff, and how much my painting and writing will actually help with my portfolio. Any information would be incredibly helpful.
Thanks,
Jase
Bloopox
Jan 30, 17 12:46 pm
In most of the Ivy M.Arch first-professional programs about a third of the incoming class are people from majors other than architecture or related art/design majors. I know people who came from anything from pre-med to English to Sports Medicine.
It sounds as though you have the visual arts background to have a strong portfolio, your grades are good, and you have the advantage of a real-world experience in an architecture firm so you have some idea of what you'd be getting into. If I were you I'd focus on that in your statement of purpose. Getting strong recommendations will also be critical - particularly from those who are familiar with your art and design work, and if possible from a principal in the architecture firm at which you're interning.
Now the reality check: the University of Utah isn't exactly known as a "feeder" for the Ivy M.Arch programs. This tends to be a bit of a self-perpetuating system: the M.Arch programs are familiar with the schools that contribute lots of good students, and the ones at which faculty teach or have recently taught, and that leads to more admissions picks from those schools. To make up for the fact that a lot of your competition is going to be coming from schools that routinely contribute a lot more grads to these M.Arch programs, you're going to need to go further in establishing that you know why you want to go to these particular programs, that you know about their strengths and features, and that you're well prepared for them and will contribute something unique. Also your writing is not likely to be a major factor. Unfortunately, outside of the statement of purpose, you won't generally be asked to submit writing samples for M.Arch admission, and while some people do it anyway the likelihood is that they won't be read, and at some schools they won't even make it into the admissions committees' hands because they're items that weren't requested. You can write about writing in your statement of purpose, but recognize that your portfolio of visual work will receive far more scrutiny and focus on that with the assumption that it's the single most important part of your application.
jasemarshall
Jan 30, 17 1:18 pm
@bloopox
Awesome, thanks for the great response. My only other question would be, say I have a 20-line poem that's been published in multiple lit mags, featured in events, won competitions etc. would it be counterproductive to include in my portfolio? I do have awesome reference letters from a partner as well as two professors I have close relationships to. I also have a 7 year background working in construction (since I was 16),specifically framing and heating and air. I'm also working on a model building at the moment made entirely out of sheet metal and plexiglass. I've noticed these schools are looking for innovative students, wondering how much of that is true also. Just trying to see exactly how out of the box a portfolio should be. Thanks again and sorry the the barrage of questions.
Cheers,
Jase
archinet
Jan 30, 17 2:30 pm
@jasemarshall
Considering your background is not architecture and you are a strong writer I would definitely include writing samples such as academic essay´s even three of them and your poetry also. Some schools specifically welcome strong writers, so do not shy away from your strengths. From my experience candidates that have the potential to contribute to the academic discourse via getting their written work about architecture published in journals is definitely an advantage.
JBeaumont
Jan 30, 17 4:24 pm
It won't hurt to include a poem in your portfolio in the sense that it's a mark against you. But a 20-line poem will eat a page of whatever the portfolio page limit is for that school. When I was on an admissions committee we each got a pile of about 50 portfolios to go through before each meeting. I didn't read any text longer than an image caption. Maybe some reviewers do but I don't recall any discussion of any candidate ever that was about a poem. It's different if you're applying to something like a program in architectural criticism or environmental design where the goal is to publish, but M.Arch decisions don't focus there. If you must include writing make it integral to your portfolio, not a separate item. People sent things like journals and books in which their work appears, and those got sorted right into the self-addressed-stamped-envelope to await their return to the candidate. At best they got a note on the person's summary sheet that they were received.
Beepbeep
Jan 30, 17 10:15 pm
The trouble is not getting... in but how to pay for it and or pay for it for the rest of your life unless you are wealthy.
jasemarshall
Jan 31, 17 1:56 am
Awesome. Thanks a bunch for the responses guys!
kjdt
Jan 31, 17 10:28 am
I would be careful with a poem that's "been published in multiple lit mags, featured in events, won competitions etc.", That sounds like you've already gotten a lot of mileage from this one piece of writing. For academic purposes reviewers tend to look askance at things that are submitted again and again to garner awards. If I were reviewing portfolios and was aware of that history it might make me wonder about whether you'd have the capacity to keep up with producing new, original work on a near-daily basis, and worse I might wonder if you'd be one of those students with a propensity to reuse/resubmit work from one course in another, or recycle undergrad work in your grad program, that sort of thing - which are forms of academic dishonesty. Admittedly once you get to the "real world" that type of persistence in pursuing acclaim will serve you well, and it's not at all unusual for architects to submit the same projects for awards consideration again and again, to multiple competitions, for years on end.
Dangermouse
Feb 1, 17 12:41 am
at the gsd, about half of the m.arch I's and MLA I's are from non traditional, non-design backgrounds. you'll be a novelty coming from not-california, the east coast, china, or latin america. a good SOP and recommendations will get you in, however. some adcoms might blink at a university from the rocky mountain west, but its a minor blemish if you can deliver otherwise potent shit in your application. make sure your portfolio includes art and process, not just finished works. include the poetry, everyone is up on derrida's dick, so theres a serious chance that an adcom will see good writing as naturally transitioning to architecture.
David Cole, AIA
Feb 1, 17 10:19 am
Here's a more fundamental question: why do you want to go to an Ivy League school? The Ivy League is nothing more than an athletic conference of eight specific universities, two of which don't even have MArch programs. Of the remaining six, there are vast differences between the programs, and there are also plenty of excellent architecture programs that aren't Ivy League. Would you want your doctor to have made his decision about which med school to attend solely based on whether it was in the Big Ten conference?
Do your research, broaden your horizons, and pick a school that's best for you. If it happens to be an Ivy League program, then so be it, but don't let that be your only criteria. Your future employers (and your student loan servicer) certainly won't give a rat's ass which athletic conference your grad school was part of.
Josh Mings
Feb 1, 17 10:23 am
^American Athletic Conference for me! Woohoo!
Some do follow the only hire from certain schools thing, and if a hiring person went to the same school you're likely to get an interview but find the best school for you and put your all into it. That will show.
Well, I'm a junior at the University of Utah and am almost done with my bachelor's degree in writing and rhetoric studies. I was going to pursue a doctorate in creative writing, however I picked up an internship at an architectural firm, fell in love with it, and now have to simultaneous internships. I currently have a 3.8 GPA (which I've heard doesn't matter as much as I wish it would), my "mock" gre scores were mid 150's to about 161, and I have fairly extensive experience with art (I've had writings and poetry published, and paintings and drawings on display). Essentially, what I'm wondering is how much of the Ivy League school's "welcoming those without an architectural background" is fluff, and how much my painting and writing will actually help with my portfolio. Any information would be incredibly helpful.
Thanks,
Jase
In most of the Ivy M.Arch first-professional programs about a third of the incoming class are people from majors other than architecture or related art/design majors. I know people who came from anything from pre-med to English to Sports Medicine.
It sounds as though you have the visual arts background to have a strong portfolio, your grades are good, and you have the advantage of a real-world experience in an architecture firm so you have some idea of what you'd be getting into. If I were you I'd focus on that in your statement of purpose. Getting strong recommendations will also be critical - particularly from those who are familiar with your art and design work, and if possible from a principal in the architecture firm at which you're interning.
Now the reality check: the University of Utah isn't exactly known as a "feeder" for the Ivy M.Arch programs. This tends to be a bit of a self-perpetuating system: the M.Arch programs are familiar with the schools that contribute lots of good students, and the ones at which faculty teach or have recently taught, and that leads to more admissions picks from those schools. To make up for the fact that a lot of your competition is going to be coming from schools that routinely contribute a lot more grads to these M.Arch programs, you're going to need to go further in establishing that you know why you want to go to these particular programs, that you know about their strengths and features, and that you're well prepared for them and will contribute something unique. Also your writing is not likely to be a major factor. Unfortunately, outside of the statement of purpose, you won't generally be asked to submit writing samples for M.Arch admission, and while some people do it anyway the likelihood is that they won't be read, and at some schools they won't even make it into the admissions committees' hands because they're items that weren't requested. You can write about writing in your statement of purpose, but recognize that your portfolio of visual work will receive far more scrutiny and focus on that with the assumption that it's the single most important part of your application.
@bloopox
Awesome, thanks for the great response. My only other question would be, say I have a 20-line poem that's been published in multiple lit mags, featured in events, won competitions etc. would it be counterproductive to include in my portfolio? I do have awesome reference letters from a partner as well as two professors I have close relationships to. I also have a 7 year background working in construction (since I was 16),specifically framing and heating and air. I'm also working on a model building at the moment made entirely out of sheet metal and plexiglass. I've noticed these schools are looking for innovative students, wondering how much of that is true also. Just trying to see exactly how out of the box a portfolio should be. Thanks again and sorry the the barrage of questions.
Cheers,
Jase
@jasemarshall
Considering your background is not architecture and you are a strong writer I would definitely include writing samples such as academic essay´s even three of them and your poetry also. Some schools specifically welcome strong writers, so do not shy away from your strengths. From my experience candidates that have the potential to contribute to the academic discourse via getting their written work about architecture published in journals is definitely an advantage.
It won't hurt to include a poem in your portfolio in the sense that it's a mark against you. But a 20-line poem will eat a page of whatever the portfolio page limit is for that school. When I was on an admissions committee we each got a pile of about 50 portfolios to go through before each meeting. I didn't read any text longer than an image caption. Maybe some reviewers do but I don't recall any discussion of any candidate ever that was about a poem. It's different if you're applying to something like a program in architectural criticism or environmental design where the goal is to publish, but M.Arch decisions don't focus there. If you must include writing make it integral to your portfolio, not a separate item. People sent things like journals and books in which their work appears, and those got sorted right into the self-addressed-stamped-envelope to await their return to the candidate. At best they got a note on the person's summary sheet that they were received.
The trouble is not getting... in but how to pay for it and or pay for it for the rest of your life unless you are wealthy.
Awesome. Thanks a bunch for the responses guys!
I would be careful with a poem that's "been published in multiple lit mags, featured in events, won competitions etc.", That sounds like you've already gotten a lot of mileage from this one piece of writing. For academic purposes reviewers tend to look askance at things that are submitted again and again to garner awards. If I were reviewing portfolios and was aware of that history it might make me wonder about whether you'd have the capacity to keep up with producing new, original work on a near-daily basis, and worse I might wonder if you'd be one of those students with a propensity to reuse/resubmit work from one course in another, or recycle undergrad work in your grad program, that sort of thing - which are forms of academic dishonesty. Admittedly once you get to the "real world" that type of persistence in pursuing acclaim will serve you well, and it's not at all unusual for architects to submit the same projects for awards consideration again and again, to multiple competitions, for years on end.
at the gsd, about half of the m.arch I's and MLA I's are from non traditional, non-design backgrounds. you'll be a novelty coming from not-california, the east coast, china, or latin america. a good SOP and recommendations will get you in, however. some adcoms might blink at a university from the rocky mountain west, but its a minor blemish if you can deliver otherwise potent shit in your application. make sure your portfolio includes art and process, not just finished works. include the poetry, everyone is up on derrida's dick, so theres a serious chance that an adcom will see good writing as naturally transitioning to architecture.
Here's a more fundamental question: why do you want to go to an Ivy League school? The Ivy League is nothing more than an athletic conference of eight specific universities, two of which don't even have MArch programs. Of the remaining six, there are vast differences between the programs, and there are also plenty of excellent architecture programs that aren't Ivy League. Would you want your doctor to have made his decision about which med school to attend solely based on whether it was in the Big Ten conference?
Do your research, broaden your horizons, and pick a school that's best for you. If it happens to be an Ivy League program, then so be it, but don't let that be your only criteria. Your future employers (and your student loan servicer) certainly won't give a rat's ass which athletic conference your grad school was part of.
^American Athletic Conference for me! Woohoo!
Some do follow the only hire from certain schools thing, and if a hiring person went to the same school you're likely to get an interview but find the best school for you and put your all into it. That will show.