Hi everyone I'm taking an architectural drafting/CAD course in high school and I guess I'm just looking for more information as to whether or not I should try to continue this into a career. I really enjoy architecture and just would like to know what I am getting into. Thank you!
Non Sequitur
Jan 26, 17 12:29 pm
.....about 5 to 8 years of unnecessarily difficult and competitive university, 200k or more in student debt, 3 to 10 years of drafting post graduation in order to complete the intern program.
Josh Mings
Jan 26, 17 12:52 pm
Not necessarily 200k in debt. I don't have that much.
tduds
Jan 26, 17 1:19 pm
Yeah it's not necessarily that bad. It's not necessarily that good either.
My advice to young people interested in Architecture is simple. If you're not absolutely, almost irrationally, passionate about design, you're probably going to hate the profession. It requires the education and apprentice time / effort / intelligence of a lawyer or a physician, for less pay than an entry level programmer. And you're not going to start producing your best work until around the time most of your peers in other professions are retiring. It's insanely stressful at times, and immensely rewarding at other times.
Generally, you need to love the thing you're going to spend 10% of your time on so much that you're willing to put up with the bullshit that's going to consume the other 90%.
DeTwan
Jan 26, 17 2:14 pm
I'd suggest the OP to continue to do their research on the profession. It's really is just a glorified art degree, sadly. Academia (college institutions) are highly disconnected from the reality of the actual practicing profession. What is preached in academia is not completely worthless, more or less honing theory and spatial planning. But the real world is full of codes, zoning, and laws that are very consuming when actually designing and constructing a structure, which is usually just passed down to the minions (CAD/BIM monkeys) to deal with. It is valuable knowledge to know, but very easy to get pigeon holed into doing a set of tasks and never move beyond just being a corporate slave. Also, with decades of the "trickle up effect" through corporate supremacy, the "true" identity of architects has been lost in corporate capitalism. It makes it very hard for the common man to succeed, mostly bc you need years of built projects and a portfolio to demonstrate to a client that your are the right architect. All in all there are far more outlets to be creative and still make a living in a profession that favors it practitioners.
Just google, "Is Architecture a good/bad career".
s=r*(theta)
Jan 26, 17 4:01 pm
think of all the architects you have seen on tv and in the movies & magazines, now completely delete that from you mind altogether forever. Now imagine a career were factory laborer meets office desk clerk 9-12hr work day's with avg salary of about 60k after 8-10yrs of employment
Josh Mings
Jan 26, 17 4:08 pm
Man you two really give the profession a bad name.
OP, take the last two posters with a grain of salt. Also I know people that work 40-45 hrs a week and make more than that average salary with half the amount of experience.
Wilma Buttfit
Jan 26, 17 4:46 pm
Marry well and you might be ok.
s=r*(theta)
Jan 26, 17 5:05 pm
on a positive note I graduated with 68k in loans.
However, I would trade the look and response of people when they discover im an architect for the look and response if I told them I am a butler or sanitation worker for a 15k bump in pay
natematt
Jan 27, 17 12:11 am
I just want to sidebar here and say that art classes would serve you better than drafting classes if you want to go into architecture school.
Bench
Jan 27, 17 9:02 am
And of course - the point about 200k in debt is moot if you're not American. Many countries actually want their students to focus on studying and not be stressed/crippled financially. Crazy idea, I know.
Non Sequitur
Jan 27, 17 9:17 am
^indeed Bench, indeed. I just assumed everyone shells out big monies for the shiny name US schools.
3 cheers for evil commy socialist subsidised education!
I think my grad school tuition cost me $10k CAD a year (2007) before factoring in scholarships.
Volunteer
Jan 27, 17 9:40 am
I would consider getting a civil engineering degree and perhaps specializing in structures or other aspects of the CE field.. You might find yourself working on buildings, landscape architecture projects, bridges, tunnels, airports, sea ports or whatever you develop an interest in. It is a much better paying field with the added benefit of the schooling only being four years in length. In addition, the civil engineering departments of many of the state universities are ranked quite a bit higher than the grossly over-priced Ivy league, and similar, schools., so you graduate with much less debt.
Bench
Jan 27, 17 10:34 am
Tuition was 5k/term at UW? Geez that's high. Ours topped out at 3.5 and almost everyone was on a scholarship. I actually finished school with more money than I started thanks to some hefty thesis prizes. Socialism!
Non Sequitur
Jan 27, 17 11:04 am
^ 3ish a term but3 terms per year aka no summers.
Wilma Buttfit
Jan 27, 17 11:05 am
I went to a state school and have no debt because I worked before and during school and my bachelor's was accredited so I didn't have to go to grad school (plus some help from mum and dad and scholarships.) It can be done in the US. A lot of students go to their dream school regardless of cost and use loan money to pay for other things like a car or beer money and many students take too long to graduate. I took college credit classes in high school and did summer school. Many students spread it out instead of pack it in. Don't do that.
s=r*(theta)
Jan 27, 17 12:05 pm
^ you dodged the debt but we all meet up at factory laborer meets office desk clerk, some with lunch breaks and sum not
geezertect
Jan 27, 17 12:34 pm
Check out the anecdotes in the "Office Culture" thread. When an unpaid lunch break is considered an unreasonable request by some employers, it should tell you something about the work environment in all too many firms. Six years of college to live like a laborer at Tyson chicken?
Stay away unless you've really drunk the Kool Aid and can't live without it.
Almosthip7
Jan 27, 17 1:36 pm
If you like the drafting maybe you should go to college and become an Architectural Technologist.
tduds
Jan 27, 17 2:11 pm
I have more debt from two years of practical state school (with a 50% grant) than from 4 years of "Shiny Name School."
Nice thing about the big names is they've got a lot of financial aid to dole out.
Wilma Buttfit
Jan 27, 17 2:50 pm
They give you breaks at Tyson chicken and I bet everyone takes them. Factory jobs kick ass, I had one in college. I never worked with chicken tho, I made windows. The buzzer sounds and everyone goes on break. Breaks were long too.
tduds
Jan 27, 17 2:57 pm
"When an unpaid lunch break is considered an unreasonable request by some employers.."
...you shouldn't work for those employers. Reward companies that reward you. Simple as that.
s=r*(theta)
Jan 27, 17 3:08 pm
Why waste time wit the 2yr degree? your are basically a glorified secretary who has to deal with all the insecure office factory workers. At least back in the day you could sit for the a.r.e., now you can't even do that with a 2yr, at best after 15-20yrs of work you can end up a pm for cheap. stay and get the B.Arch atleast, then you can take the top off at some point and get the big corner office with at least an hour lunch break
tduds
Jan 27, 17 3:53 pm
Assuming that was directed towards me...
The two year degree was my M.Arch. The 4 year fancy degree was a BS (lol).
s=r*(theta)
Jan 27, 17 4:22 pm
^ no, i was meaning a 2yr tech degree. M.arch is over rated as well though, u will be out on the office floor plantation with the rest of us and expected to produce and know more since you have a M.Arch, but about the same pay. only thing that really separates you is the license
tduds
Jan 27, 17 4:42 pm
Depends on who you're working for.
s=r*(theta)
Jan 27, 17 4:48 pm
^ correct I know a few who have a license and almost make the same as those without
Everyday Intern
Jan 27, 17 5:34 pm
If everyone with a B.Arch or M.Arch ends up drafting details in Revit for low wages, why wouldn't you encourage people to go for a 2-year technical degree rather than a B.Arch? Realistically, how many people need to get the license in the end? Shouldn't the industry acknowledge there is a hierarchy and the person typing commands into the machine to produce the product doesn't need the same schooling (or license) as the person who designed the product? You don't need the same training as a Michelin-rated chef to flip burgers at McDonald's.
BTW, there are still plenty of jurisdictions that allow you to sit for the ARE without a NAAB-accredited degree. Some only require a high school diploma and X years of experience to get licensed.
s=r*(theta)
Jan 30, 17 1:14 pm
^ if all you can afford is a 2yr then by all means go for it, otherwise OP talked about going into architecture, that said, i personally would never advise anyone to get a 2yr as my reason stated previously.
"BTW, there are still plenty of jurisdictions that allow you to sit for the ARE without a NAAB-accredited degree. "
And you prove my whole point with this statement, with an accredit B.Arch you dont limit your self to 1-2 states, you can have all 50! and territories. same on the plantation, why sit in a corner drafting details for 14yrs when you can get the B.arch and be out of that corner drafting details in 3-4yrs
Everyday Intern
Jan 30, 17 2:07 pm
I see your point. I reread your earlier posts and I didn't really capture your acknowledgement of upward mobility earlier. I don't think I'd put as much limitation on that mobility as you are, but I haven't encountered too many people that haven't done the accredited route to compare it to. The ones that I have seen go through the non-accredited route have all been doing well for themselves. Ultimately, I think it comes down to the individual and their drive and ambitions. Those who desire more will work for it until they achieve it ... an accredited degree might help, but I don't see it as a gate keeper.
... and it's more than just 1-2 states, and even in some of the states that don't allow initial licensure without a NAAB degree, could still offer reciprocity without it. Yes, not doing the traditional pathway and getting an NCARB certificate will eventually limit you from being able to practice in all 54 jurisdictions, but how many people have you met that actually need to be licensed in all 54 jurisdictions?
Hi everyone I'm taking an architectural drafting/CAD course in high school and I guess I'm just looking for more information as to whether or not I should try to continue this into a career. I really enjoy architecture and just would like to know what I am getting into. Thank you!
.....about 5 to 8 years of unnecessarily difficult and competitive university, 200k or more in student debt, 3 to 10 years of drafting post graduation in order to complete the intern program.
Not necessarily 200k in debt. I don't have that much.
Yeah it's not necessarily that bad. It's not necessarily that good either.
My advice to young people interested in Architecture is simple. If you're not absolutely, almost irrationally, passionate about design, you're probably going to hate the profession. It requires the education and apprentice time / effort / intelligence of a lawyer or a physician, for less pay than an entry level programmer. And you're not going to start producing your best work until around the time most of your peers in other professions are retiring. It's insanely stressful at times, and immensely rewarding at other times.
Generally, you need to love the thing you're going to spend 10% of your time on so much that you're willing to put up with the bullshit that's going to consume the other 90%.
I'd suggest the OP to continue to do their research on the profession. It's really is just a glorified art degree, sadly. Academia (college institutions) are highly disconnected from the reality of the actual practicing profession. What is preached in academia is not completely worthless, more or less honing theory and spatial planning. But the real world is full of codes, zoning, and laws that are very consuming when actually designing and constructing a structure, which is usually just passed down to the minions (CAD/BIM monkeys) to deal with. It is valuable knowledge to know, but very easy to get pigeon holed into doing a set of tasks and never move beyond just being a corporate slave. Also, with decades of the "trickle up effect" through corporate supremacy, the "true" identity of architects has been lost in corporate capitalism. It makes it very hard for the common man to succeed, mostly bc you need years of built projects and a portfolio to demonstrate to a client that your are the right architect. All in all there are far more outlets to be creative and still make a living in a profession that favors it practitioners.
Just google, "Is Architecture a good/bad career".
think of all the architects you have seen on tv and in the movies & magazines, now completely delete that from you mind altogether forever. Now imagine a career were factory laborer meets office desk clerk 9-12hr work day's with avg salary of about 60k after 8-10yrs of employment
Man you two really give the profession a bad name.
OP, take the last two posters with a grain of salt. Also I know people that work 40-45 hrs a week and make more than that average salary with half the amount of experience.
Marry well and you might be ok.
on a positive note I graduated with 68k in loans.
However, I would trade the look and response of people when they discover im an architect for the look and response if I told them I am a butler or sanitation worker for a 15k bump in pay
I just want to sidebar here and say that art classes would serve you better than drafting classes if you want to go into architecture school.
And of course - the point about 200k in debt is moot if you're not American. Many countries actually want their students to focus on studying and not be stressed/crippled financially. Crazy idea, I know.
^indeed Bench, indeed. I just assumed everyone shells out big monies for the shiny name US schools.
3 cheers for evil commy socialist subsidised education!
I think my grad school tuition cost me $10k CAD a year (2007) before factoring in scholarships.
I would consider getting a civil engineering degree and perhaps specializing in structures or other aspects of the CE field.. You might find yourself working on buildings, landscape architecture projects, bridges, tunnels, airports, sea ports or whatever you develop an interest in. It is a much better paying field with the added benefit of the schooling only being four years in length. In addition, the civil engineering departments of many of the state universities are ranked quite a bit higher than the grossly over-priced Ivy league, and similar, schools., so you graduate with much less debt.
Tuition was 5k/term at UW? Geez that's high. Ours topped out at 3.5 and almost everyone was on a scholarship. I actually finished school with more money than I started thanks to some hefty thesis prizes. Socialism!
^ 3ish a term but3 terms per year aka no summers.
I went to a state school and have no debt because I worked before and during school and my bachelor's was accredited so I didn't have to go to grad school (plus some help from mum and dad and scholarships.) It can be done in the US. A lot of students go to their dream school regardless of cost and use loan money to pay for other things like a car or beer money and many students take too long to graduate. I took college credit classes in high school and did summer school. Many students spread it out instead of pack it in. Don't do that.
^ you dodged the debt but we all meet up at factory laborer meets office desk clerk, some with lunch breaks and sum not
Check out the anecdotes in the "Office Culture" thread. When an unpaid lunch break is considered an unreasonable request by some employers, it should tell you something about the work environment in all too many firms. Six years of college to live like a laborer at Tyson chicken?
Stay away unless you've really drunk the Kool Aid and can't live without it.
If you like the drafting maybe you should go to college and become an Architectural Technologist.
I have more debt from two years of practical state school (with a 50% grant) than from 4 years of "Shiny Name School."
Nice thing about the big names is they've got a lot of financial aid to dole out.
They give you breaks at Tyson chicken and I bet everyone takes them. Factory jobs kick ass, I had one in college. I never worked with chicken tho, I made windows. The buzzer sounds and everyone goes on break. Breaks were long too.
"When an unpaid lunch break is considered an unreasonable request by some employers.."
...you shouldn't work for those employers. Reward companies that reward you. Simple as that.
Why waste time wit the 2yr degree? your are basically a glorified secretary who has to deal with all the insecure office factory workers. At least back in the day you could sit for the a.r.e., now you can't even do that with a 2yr, at best after 15-20yrs of work you can end up a pm for cheap. stay and get the B.Arch atleast, then you can take the top off at some point and get the big corner office with at least an hour lunch break
Assuming that was directed towards me...
The two year degree was my M.Arch. The 4 year fancy degree was a BS (lol).
^ no, i was meaning a 2yr tech degree. M.arch is over rated as well though, u will be out on the office floor plantation with the rest of us and expected to produce and know more since you have a M.Arch, but about the same pay. only thing that really separates you is the license
Depends on who you're working for.
^ correct I know a few who have a license and almost make the same as those without
If everyone with a B.Arch or M.Arch ends up drafting details in Revit for low wages, why wouldn't you encourage people to go for a 2-year technical degree rather than a B.Arch? Realistically, how many people need to get the license in the end? Shouldn't the industry acknowledge there is a hierarchy and the person typing commands into the machine to produce the product doesn't need the same schooling (or license) as the person who designed the product? You don't need the same training as a Michelin-rated chef to flip burgers at McDonald's.
BTW, there are still plenty of jurisdictions that allow you to sit for the ARE without a NAAB-accredited degree. Some only require a high school diploma and X years of experience to get licensed.
^ if all you can afford is a 2yr then by all means go for it, otherwise OP talked about going into architecture, that said, i personally would never advise anyone to get a 2yr as my reason stated previously.
"BTW, there are still plenty of jurisdictions that allow you to sit for the ARE without a NAAB-accredited degree. "
And you prove my whole point with this statement, with an accredit B.Arch you dont limit your self to 1-2 states, you can have all 50! and territories. same on the plantation, why sit in a corner drafting details for 14yrs when you can get the B.arch and be out of that corner drafting details in 3-4yrs
I see your point. I reread your earlier posts and I didn't really capture your acknowledgement of upward mobility earlier. I don't think I'd put as much limitation on that mobility as you are, but I haven't encountered too many people that haven't done the accredited route to compare it to. The ones that I have seen go through the non-accredited route have all been doing well for themselves. Ultimately, I think it comes down to the individual and their drive and ambitions. Those who desire more will work for it until they achieve it ... an accredited degree might help, but I don't see it as a gate keeper.
... and it's more than just 1-2 states, and even in some of the states that don't allow initial licensure without a NAAB degree, could still offer reciprocity without it. Yes, not doing the traditional pathway and getting an NCARB certificate will eventually limit you from being able to practice in all 54 jurisdictions, but how many people have you met that actually need to be licensed in all 54 jurisdictions?