I need some advice and this is my first post so please go easy on me!
I have 6 years experience in the same boutique firm and have had the same job since graduating. I quickly worked my way up and watched the company grow from 4-12 people during my tenure. I am now handling pretty much 50% of the business including client lead, PM for the most complex jobs, overseeing drafters, juniors and assistant PM's, writing contracts, marketing, seeking out new work, landing a few jobs, etc. I get profit sharing and my base salary is 85K with 10K bonus compensation last year.
The firm has not been around that long and definitely skews younger and the owner is in his late 30's, unlicensed, a great designer, well connected, but not very experienced before going on his own.
I feel I am ready for a change and want to do larger projects and finish IDP. I also want to be around people that know much more than me so I can learn.
The problem is that I am really in a mgmt position and my salary is much higher than your average 6 years experience Intermediate Architect. Of course I am out of practice when it comes to heavy design production work and I'm overseeing the drafting teams now rather than putting documents together myself. I have a family and typically high urban cost of living and my wife has her own brand new design start up so I need to have the stable income.
Should I take a lower paying, less glamorous position in a larger office so I can learn more than just residential interiors and new home construction which is our current primary market?
Or should I stay where I am and try to utilize my influence to direct the firm towards hiring more experienced people I can learn under? No matter what I cannot get licensed working here so what's the point?
The best scenario would be to keep looking until I find a firm that does similar work where I can jump into a similar position but working under a licensed architect; but these positions do not come about every day.
Please give me your best career advice!
Thanks!
shellarchitect
Jan 8, 17 12:08 pm
interesting problem. Personally I'd look for a similar firm that has an architect whom you make work under to complete IDP. The potential drop in salary is potentially scary, but you are probably maxed out in your current position, the license will give you the ability to advance farther and give you more credibility if you ever decided to start your own firm.
No idea of your area, but there has got to be a small to medium sized firm that does a mix of commercial and residential. I suspect that you could bring some work over with you and any firm would be very pleased.
null pointer
Jan 8, 17 12:36 pm
1. Finish IDP at your current firm.
2. GTFO. If you can manage more than 6 people, you're ready to do your own thing. Stanford MF White was 19 when he partnered with McKim Mead and White. Zaha was 26 when ZHA got started.
home_alone
Jan 8, 17 1:26 pm
Thanks for the insight!
NP - My big problem is I can't get any more IDP at my current firm as we are a "Design" firm only. Would you change your advice based on that?
Shell - Thank you for the tip I think that is also the best strategy. I am in a major city with lots of firms hiring so we will see how it goes.
Thanks again.
null pointer
Jan 8, 17 4:34 pm
Switch ASAP, finish ASAP, but only if you're willing to bite the self-employment bullet.
Gregory Zamell
Jan 8, 17 7:37 pm
Look at where your ceiling is and decide if you're content with it. If you are ready for a change and want to be pushed professionally, than absolutely make a change. I assume you have no kids, so a change carries less risk for you, with the potential of high reward. Yes you will almost certainly take a pay cut, but in exchange you'll get opportunity and growth that you'd never see with your current role. And don't sell yourself short. The market is as hot and young people with management experience are in high demand. My adive: Be picky and make sure that the move you make is the best possible one for you. If you advanced quickly before, than you can surely do it again. Talent and hard work always shows through.
I also have about 6 years of experience and am growing into a PM role, but the job I've just accepted will be my fourth since graduating. I've never had to actively seek my next job and with each stop I've learned something immensely valuable that I can carry with me for the rest of my career. There are so many different approaches to management, design, documentation, marketing, contracts/fees, and etc. You'll never learn new methods by standing still.
tl;dr DO IT! You have so much to gain. Just down burn any bridges on your way out. It sounds like you're well liked and could go back to your current job if a new gig doesn't work out.
randomised
Jan 9, 17 3:40 am
I would put my eggs in two baskets and try to get your current firm to hire more experienced architects to learn from/work with AND go looking for a new position elsewhere AND maybe a third basket, see if you can go at it yourself and take some clients with you to get started and then you'll be totally in charge of who you hire to work under/with and how you'll grow. Especially with a family and a wife with a start up I would explore all options thoroughly before ending up with a serious pay cut and too much financial insecurity.
Fist off - you only have 6 years of limited experience and are managing a team to produce cd's.. I would question the quality of work that is going out of the office you are in in the first place. You are working for a young, unlicensed designer...Sounds like a shit show even though you are making good money. I think you know it is a disaster and that is why you are asking the question. If I were you, I would look at it from a long term and professional development perspective, you are not getting what you need out of this firm, when the next crash happens you are going to be a highly paid individual with very limited skills. I would bite the bullet and go, take a pay cut and get in the trenches...learn what you think you need to know to be valuable to yourself and other firms. Trying to hire somebody more experience in your current firm would be a disaster...you would be managing a licensed pro that knows more than you...bad for both parties.
randomised
Jan 9, 17 11:59 am
" Trying to hire somebody more experience in your current firm would be a disaster...you would be managing a licensed pro that knows more than you...bad for both parties. "
I have worked in firms of young guys that explicitly hired older more experienced people to get things done properly. The atmosphere was fabulous, the older guys get to work on really interesting new stuff, cutting edge etc., while the younger guys learn how to get their renderings and diagrams built within budget etc. win-win (also the music that was playing in the office was great, some golden oldies motown b-sides pared with European electronic Boiler room stuff made everybody happy)
s=r*(theta)
Jan 9, 17 12:00 pm
^ managing someone with more experience and credentials is almost like seeing a unicorn
s=r*(theta)
Jan 9, 17 12:16 pm
^ it can work if everyone knows how to get along, haha, so many shallow people sometimes with huge insecurities.
you could always stay were you are at, get your license and run the show properly or partner. I dont see the owner up and canning you since you would have your license, along with 6yrs of daily operations and understanding ins and outs of same firm, and you guys would be able to go after the projects you are interested in and you would be adding tremendous value. you can take and complete the a.r.e. without finishing IDP ya know.
Wilma Buttfit
Jan 9, 17 12:24 pm
One option might be to work for more than one firm. Keep this job and get another one where you earn IDP. You can do some of your IDP outside of the traditional setting and you can earn it by doing the workbook NCARB makes and doing CEU's too, so I'd get on those things right away.
x-jla
Jan 9, 17 12:58 pm
He cant get licensed without idp. That's his problem. If it was just a matter of taking the test he would be in a good position. This is my beef with axp/idp. It limits people like the op and his boss.
My advice is simple. If you like what you are doing and licensure isnt that important to you then stay. If you want to get licensed, find another full time job and possibly continue to do some side/contract work for your current firm. Sounds like your boss is connected and running a profitable business. After licensure you can go back to work for him and possibly try to become a partner which will open the firm to a greater diversity of projects. Your current boss may see it as a value to let you go for a few years and come back with a license. Just do what works for you.
This alternative option, which will launch June 29, 2016, was approved by NCARB’s Board of Directors following feedback from state licensing boards. The e-Portfolio will only be available to professionals who can document two years of experience that is older than five years. To qualify for licensure through this alternative option, candidates will also need to meet their licensing board’s education and examination requirements, and have an active NCARB Record.
It doesn't specify whether that work is required to be under the supervision of a licensed architect...might be worth looking into.
x-jla
Jan 9, 17 2:11 pm
Key word "that is older than 5 years"
shellarchitect
Jan 9, 17 2:31 pm
my two cents - my priority would be to get the license, but not everyone may agree.
I sounds to me that after 6 years of (sfr and/or interiors?) the OP is basically looking for a new challenge. The architecture world is big and so far (s)he's only seen a very small part of it. I think the best choice is to move on to a new challenge.
In my experience there is little overlap between (sfr and/or interiors?) and commercial architecture. A change in scenery would make them a better designer in every way.
molten
Jan 9, 17 2:57 pm
@jla-x whoops, my dyslexia turned that into a 9 ;)
randomised
Jan 10, 17 4:26 am
"^ managing someone with more experience and credentials is almost like seeing a unicorn"
At least here in Europe it is quite common for young start-up offices to hire experienced staffers with plenty of credentials but without the need/ego to be their own boss when those start-ups finally move beyond the single family home commissions for their relatives. There's even a unicorn at my table redlining some drawings as I'm typing this ;-)
s=r*(theta)
Jan 10, 17 10:23 am
^ "it is quite common for young start-up offices to hire experienced staffers with plenty of credentials"
& yet they hired you with inexperience, basically no credentials, with 4 people and somehow you became pm? so in my mind you are already "uncommon" there in europe.
s=r*(theta)
Jan 10, 17 10:40 am
Im aware you cant get the license with out completing idp, my point jla-x is you can still take and pass exams without completing idp, in which its waaaaaaaaaay easier to get idp done than exams imho, and you still have to take exams and get idp either way, although im not entirely familiar with licensing practices in europe
chigurh
Jan 10, 17 11:00 am
randomised experience is definitely the exception to the rule...talking about the situation like its commonplace or even cool.
randomised
Jan 10, 17 11:30 am
"& yet they hired you with inexperience, basically no credentials, with 4 people and somehow you became pm? so in my mind you are already "uncommon" there in europe."
I'm not your typical architect, what can I say :) I'm actually not inexperienced, do have some credentials but wouldn't consider myself a project manager either although I do also run some research projects and competitions.
An office I worked at has two principals in their 30's that run and oversee all the projects but they hired an architect who's nearly 60 with decades of experience at some high-profile offices to guarantee excellent execution and delivery. Another office I interned at years ago did basically the same when things really took off, so I personally don't see what's the big deal, maybe it's just a cultural thing.
randomised
Jan 10, 17 12:18 pm
"randomised experience is definitely the exception to the rule...talking about the situation like its commonplace or even cool."
I'm not so sure if it's the exception since I'm writing from personal experience of what I know but yes I do believe working diagonally across generations is a cool thing and something to actually promote, stimulate and celebrate in a professional environment since I've seen first-hand how well it can work out for all involved, I just don't believe in age segregation.
MyDream
Apr 2, 17 10:53 pm
Hearing of an unlicensed designer doing so well on his own is delightful. Zaha starting out on her own at 26....whoa. I always read it is beat to start before your thirty. The OP said he is well connected, this must be the magic potion. As I am starting out on my own I am missing this ingredient, but am still managing to stay in there. If I were you I would stay at that job until I found something else hell 85k! I can't see a lot of people in this industry making that much, but it does give a guy like me hope maybe I will finally land a client.
Jeremy
Apr 3, 17 7:44 pm
Hm, have you applied anywhere? You might find with your skill-set and management experience you can get a better paying job in a large firm... often bigger places can pay more and what you are doing sounds like it would translate well to a PM (or similar) position. Maybe less glamorous work but should get paid more for it. At least get offers from some places before deciding. No reason to think you cant move up in pay AND get different experience.
Hello fellow archies -
I need some advice and this is my first post so please go easy on me!
I have 6 years experience in the same boutique firm and have had the same job since graduating. I quickly worked my way up and watched the company grow from 4-12 people during my tenure. I am now handling pretty much 50% of the business including client lead, PM for the most complex jobs, overseeing drafters, juniors and assistant PM's, writing contracts, marketing, seeking out new work, landing a few jobs, etc. I get profit sharing and my base salary is 85K with 10K bonus compensation last year.
The firm has not been around that long and definitely skews younger and the owner is in his late 30's, unlicensed, a great designer, well connected, but not very experienced before going on his own.
I feel I am ready for a change and want to do larger projects and finish IDP. I also want to be around people that know much more than me so I can learn.
The problem is that I am really in a mgmt position and my salary is much higher than your average 6 years experience Intermediate Architect. Of course I am out of practice when it comes to heavy design production work and I'm overseeing the drafting teams now rather than putting documents together myself. I have a family and typically high urban cost of living and my wife has her own brand new design start up so I need to have the stable income.
Should I take a lower paying, less glamorous position in a larger office so I can learn more than just residential interiors and new home construction which is our current primary market?
Or should I stay where I am and try to utilize my influence to direct the firm towards hiring more experienced people I can learn under? No matter what I cannot get licensed working here so what's the point?
The best scenario would be to keep looking until I find a firm that does similar work where I can jump into a similar position but working under a licensed architect; but these positions do not come about every day.
Please give me your best career advice!
Thanks!
interesting problem. Personally I'd look for a similar firm that has an architect whom you make work under to complete IDP. The potential drop in salary is potentially scary, but you are probably maxed out in your current position, the license will give you the ability to advance farther and give you more credibility if you ever decided to start your own firm.
No idea of your area, but there has got to be a small to medium sized firm that does a mix of commercial and residential. I suspect that you could bring some work over with you and any firm would be very pleased.
1. Finish IDP at your current firm.
2. GTFO. If you can manage more than 6 people, you're ready to do your own thing. Stanford MF White was 19 when he partnered with McKim Mead and White. Zaha was 26 when ZHA got started.
Thanks for the insight!
NP - My big problem is I can't get any more IDP at my current firm as we are a "Design" firm only. Would you change your advice based on that?
Shell - Thank you for the tip I think that is also the best strategy. I am in a major city with lots of firms hiring so we will see how it goes.
Thanks again.
Switch ASAP, finish ASAP, but only if you're willing to bite the self-employment bullet.
Look at where your ceiling is and decide if you're content with it. If you are ready for a change and want to be pushed professionally, than absolutely make a change. I assume you have no kids, so a change carries less risk for you, with the potential of high reward. Yes you will almost certainly take a pay cut, but in exchange you'll get opportunity and growth that you'd never see with your current role. And don't sell yourself short. The market is as hot and young people with management experience are in high demand. My adive: Be picky and make sure that the move you make is the best possible one for you. If you advanced quickly before, than you can surely do it again. Talent and hard work always shows through.
I also have about 6 years of experience and am growing into a PM role, but the job I've just accepted will be my fourth since graduating. I've never had to actively seek my next job and with each stop I've learned something immensely valuable that I can carry with me for the rest of my career. There are so many different approaches to management, design, documentation, marketing, contracts/fees, and etc. You'll never learn new methods by standing still.
tl;dr DO IT! You have so much to gain. Just down burn any bridges on your way out. It sounds like you're well liked and could go back to your current job if a new gig doesn't work out.
I would put my eggs in two baskets and try to get your current firm to hire more experienced architects to learn from/work with AND go looking for a new position elsewhere AND maybe a third basket, see if you can go at it yourself and take some clients with you to get started and then you'll be totally in charge of who you hire to work under/with and how you'll grow. Especially with a family and a wife with a start up I would explore all options thoroughly before ending up with a serious pay cut and too much financial insecurity.
Also, maybe this is an option: http://archinect.com/forum/thread/149985042/contract-work-for-previous-firm/0#last
Fist off - you only have 6 years of limited experience and are managing a team to produce cd's.. I would question the quality of work that is going out of the office you are in in the first place. You are working for a young, unlicensed designer...Sounds like a shit show even though you are making good money. I think you know it is a disaster and that is why you are asking the question. If I were you, I would look at it from a long term and professional development perspective, you are not getting what you need out of this firm, when the next crash happens you are going to be a highly paid individual with very limited skills. I would bite the bullet and go, take a pay cut and get in the trenches...learn what you think you need to know to be valuable to yourself and other firms. Trying to hire somebody more experience in your current firm would be a disaster...you would be managing a licensed pro that knows more than you...bad for both parties.
" Trying to hire somebody more experience in your current firm would be a disaster...you would be managing a licensed pro that knows more than you...bad for both parties. "
I have worked in firms of young guys that explicitly hired older more experienced people to get things done properly. The atmosphere was fabulous, the older guys get to work on really interesting new stuff, cutting edge etc., while the younger guys learn how to get their renderings and diagrams built within budget etc. win-win (also the music that was playing in the office was great, some golden oldies motown b-sides pared with European electronic Boiler room stuff made everybody happy)
^ managing someone with more experience and credentials is almost like seeing a unicorn
^ it can work if everyone knows how to get along, haha, so many shallow people sometimes with huge insecurities.
you could always stay were you are at, get your license and run the show properly or partner. I dont see the owner up and canning you since you would have your license, along with 6yrs of daily operations and understanding ins and outs of same firm, and you guys would be able to go after the projects you are interested in and you would be adding tremendous value. you can take and complete the a.r.e. without finishing IDP ya know.
One option might be to work for more than one firm. Keep this job and get another one where you earn IDP. You can do some of your IDP outside of the traditional setting and you can earn it by doing the workbook NCARB makes and doing CEU's too, so I'd get on those things right away.
He cant get licensed without idp. That's his problem. If it was just a matter of taking the test he would be in a good position. This is my beef with axp/idp. It limits people like the op and his boss.
My advice is simple. If you like what you are doing and licensure isnt that important to you then stay. If you want to get licensed, find another full time job and possibly continue to do some side/contract work for your current firm. Sounds like your boss is connected and running a profitable business. After licensure you can go back to work for him and possibly try to become a partner which will open the firm to a greater diversity of projects. Your current boss may see it as a value to let you go for a few years and come back with a license. Just do what works for you.
http://www.ncarb.org/News-and-Events/News/2016/Mar-ePortfolio.aspx
This alternative option, which will launch June 29, 2016, was approved by NCARB’s Board of Directors following feedback from state licensing boards. The e-Portfolio will only be available to professionals who can document two years of experience that is older than five years. To qualify for licensure through this alternative option, candidates will also need to meet their licensing board’s education and examination requirements, and have an active NCARB Record.
It doesn't specify whether that work is required to be under the supervision of a licensed architect...might be worth looking into.
Key word "that is older than 5 years"
my two cents - my priority would be to get the license, but not everyone may agree.
I sounds to me that after 6 years of (sfr and/or interiors?) the OP is basically looking for a new challenge. The architecture world is big and so far (s)he's only seen a very small part of it. I think the best choice is to move on to a new challenge.
In my experience there is little overlap between (sfr and/or interiors?) and commercial architecture. A change in scenery would make them a better designer in every way.
@jla-x whoops, my dyslexia turned that into a 9 ;)
"^ managing someone with more experience and credentials is almost like seeing a unicorn"
At least here in Europe it is quite common for young start-up offices to hire experienced staffers with plenty of credentials but without the need/ego to be their own boss when those start-ups finally move beyond the single family home commissions for their relatives. There's even a unicorn at my table redlining some drawings as I'm typing this ;-)
^ "it is quite common for young start-up offices to hire experienced staffers with plenty of credentials"
& yet they hired you with inexperience, basically no credentials, with 4 people and somehow you became pm? so in my mind you are already "uncommon" there in europe.
Im aware you cant get the license with out completing idp, my point jla-x is you can still take and pass exams without completing idp, in which its waaaaaaaaaay easier to get idp done than exams imho, and you still have to take exams and get idp either way, although im not entirely familiar with licensing practices in europe
randomised experience is definitely the exception to the rule...talking about the situation like its commonplace or even cool.
"& yet they hired you with inexperience, basically no credentials, with 4 people and somehow you became pm? so in my mind you are already "uncommon" there in europe."
I'm not your typical architect, what can I say :) I'm actually not inexperienced, do have some credentials but wouldn't consider myself a project manager either although I do also run some research projects and competitions.
An office I worked at has two principals in their 30's that run and oversee all the projects but they hired an architect who's nearly 60 with decades of experience at some high-profile offices to guarantee excellent execution and delivery. Another office I interned at years ago did basically the same when things really took off, so I personally don't see what's the big deal, maybe it's just a cultural thing.
"randomised experience is definitely the exception to the rule...talking about the situation like its commonplace or even cool."
I'm not so sure if it's the exception since I'm writing from personal experience of what I know but yes I do believe working diagonally across generations is a cool thing and something to actually promote, stimulate and celebrate in a professional environment since I've seen first-hand how well it can work out for all involved, I just don't believe in age segregation.
Hearing of an unlicensed designer doing so well on his own is delightful. Zaha starting out on her own at 26....whoa. I always read it is beat to start before your thirty. The OP said he is well connected, this must be the magic potion. As I am starting out on my own I am missing this ingredient, but am still managing to stay in there. If I were you I would stay at that job until I found something else hell 85k! I can't see a lot of people in this industry making that much, but it does give a guy like me hope maybe I will finally land a client.
Hm, have you applied anywhere? You might find with your skill-set and management experience you can get a better paying job in a large firm... often bigger places can pay more and what you are doing sounds like it would translate well to a PM (or similar) position. Maybe less glamorous work but should get paid more for it. At least get offers from some places before deciding. No reason to think you cant move up in pay AND get different experience.