Long time lurker, first time poster here. I wanted to ask if anyone knows how the Vietnam War Memorial is able to get away without having a safety railing around it. From what I can tell the only protection is simple a warning sign at the entry. Is there planting or a railing set far back from the site?
My thoughts are that this was built before the current code was introduced with regards to protection from falling. I'd appreciate if anyone could help me out with this issue.
Thanks so much.
randomised
Jan 6, 17 5:41 am
It's not a building
Josh Mings
Jan 6, 17 8:54 am
Pretty much. It's a sculpture - although I think if it were to be built today they would have required a railing.
Peter Normand
Jan 6, 17 9:07 am
The whole grassy area behind the wall is off limits and is chained off and guarded to keep folks from wandering over the edge of the wall. the wall is also not flush with the ground behind it but projects up like a parapet, a short one.
Over and OUT
Peter N
Everyday Intern
Jan 6, 17 11:21 am
Never been there ... so are the chains and guards photoshopped out, and the grass level photoshopped up to get rid of the parapet in this photo? Maybe all that stuff was added later (I have no idea when the photo was taken)?
Personally I think randomised hit it
Peter Normand
Jan 6, 17 12:03 pm
There is a chain back by the sidewalk if someone wonders out into the grass behind the wall a national parks ranger will ask them to get back on the sidewalk, this happens on busy days when there are lots of visitors. If you are in DC you should try and wonder out there and see what happens.
Also some folks may view this as a mechanism for improving the human race by eliminating dumb people who fall off walls.
But I don't know if this has ever been a problem most people just chose not to fall of the wall.
Over and OUT
Peter N
Everyday Intern
Jan 6, 17 12:29 pm
I can't help but think of the Ira Keller fountain in Portland as well when it comes to fall hazards and no railings ... also not a building.
3tk
Jan 6, 17 4:33 pm
there's a chain and signs (and guards). it's not a liability until you're sued, so there is a bit of 'risk' but the chains are pretty awful.
note on Portland: I believe OR and WA have state law precedents that are different from east coast and midwest that essentially is "if it looks dangerous to a reasonable person and you took the risk to get hurt, it's your fault". too bad they don't serve as precedents for other states (one area in which I'll side with the elephants crying about the 'nanny state').
Peter Normand
Jan 6, 17 7:25 pm
We generally don't put railings at the edges of stages or train platforms, People just have to be responsible for their own safety.
Have a good weekend
Peter N
shakingitout
Jan 6, 17 10:11 pm
Wow, thanks so much everyone. Josh and others guessed my next question which was whether it could / would still be built today in the same manner with the increased lawsuit culture in the states. Seems it's not a matter of code then and more about liability.
I'm from the states but work overseas with different codes and never got my head all the way around US code before I left, so I really appreciate the information. Where I am I see projects without railings all the time but I feel like more recent US projects with terraced landscapes (I'm thinking of the Olympic Sculpture Park in Seattle) utilize a parapet or railing and don't have this kind of condition around constructed edges.
Thanks again!
citizen
Jan 7, 17 11:40 am
This question about that site reminds me of the important difference between design factors and operational factors. Solving as many problems as possible via physical design is always best.
Not every project's CDs can realistically show the note "Locate US Parks Service employee @ 50' o/c along upper edge."
Marc Miller
Jan 7, 17 1:06 pm
The guides and volunteers spend most of their time along the wall. The chain link fence extends around the lawn that separates the wall from the sidewalk. There also drain 15' back from the wall that suggests another barrier- if you felt the need to ignore the signs on the fence that say "Honor those who served, Please stay on Sidewalk."
citizen
Jan 7, 17 1:42 pm
Aha. Design-based, then.
3tk
Jan 9, 17 3:53 pm
Can it be done today? Maybe, the code requirement for guardrail (for walkways within 48" of a 30"+ drop) can be interpreted by the local reviewer various ways: some will allow for a plant bed or other non-walking surface to count. Institutions can shy away to prevent liability issues, but sometimes will be more liberal if they want to save on the cost of a rail or if they hate the appearance of a rail.
Peter Normand
Jan 10, 17 10:40 am
David,C the signs should say jump at your own risk?
randomised
Jan 10, 17 12:33 pm
Obviously, and those signs should be placed below and only readable when you extend over the edge far enough...
randomised
Jan 10, 17 12:44 pm
But seriously, instead of safety signs, they should put signs with a dress code. Going to pay your respects in your swimming trunks and sneakers while wearing a wife beater, that just doesn't make any sense to me...or people taking happy smiley duckface selfies at ground zero.
Hello Archinecters,
Long time lurker, first time poster here. I wanted to ask if anyone knows how the Vietnam War Memorial is able to get away without having a safety railing around it. From what I can tell the only protection is simple a warning sign at the entry. Is there planting or a railing set far back from the site?
My thoughts are that this was built before the current code was introduced with regards to protection from falling. I'd appreciate if anyone could help me out with this issue.
Thanks so much.
It's not a building
Pretty much. It's a sculpture - although I think if it were to be built today they would have required a railing.
The whole grassy area behind the wall is off limits and is chained off and guarded to keep folks from wandering over the edge of the wall. the wall is also not flush with the ground behind it but projects up like a parapet, a short one.
Over and OUT
Peter N
Never been there ... so are the chains and guards photoshopped out, and the grass level photoshopped up to get rid of the parapet in this photo? Maybe all that stuff was added later (I have no idea when the photo was taken)?
Personally I think randomised hit it
There is a chain back by the sidewalk if someone wonders out into the grass behind the wall a national parks ranger will ask them to get back on the sidewalk, this happens on busy days when there are lots of visitors. If you are in DC you should try and wonder out there and see what happens.
Also some folks may view this as a mechanism for improving the human race by eliminating dumb people who fall off walls.
But I don't know if this has ever been a problem most people just chose not to fall of the wall.
Over and OUT
Peter N
I can't help but think of the Ira Keller fountain in Portland as well when it comes to fall hazards and no railings ... also not a building.
there's a chain and signs (and guards). it's not a liability until you're sued, so there is a bit of 'risk' but the chains are pretty awful.
note on Portland: I believe OR and WA have state law precedents that are different from east coast and midwest that essentially is "if it looks dangerous to a reasonable person and you took the risk to get hurt, it's your fault". too bad they don't serve as precedents for other states (one area in which I'll side with the elephants crying about the 'nanny state').
We generally don't put railings at the edges of stages or train platforms, People just have to be responsible for their own safety.
Have a good weekend
Peter N
Wow, thanks so much everyone. Josh and others guessed my next question which was whether it could / would still be built today in the same manner with the increased lawsuit culture in the states. Seems it's not a matter of code then and more about liability.
I'm from the states but work overseas with different codes and never got my head all the way around US code before I left, so I really appreciate the information. Where I am I see projects without railings all the time but I feel like more recent US projects with terraced landscapes (I'm thinking of the Olympic Sculpture Park in Seattle) utilize a parapet or railing and don't have this kind of condition around constructed edges.
Thanks again!
This question about that site reminds me of the important difference between design factors and operational factors. Solving as many problems as possible via physical design is always best.
Not every project's CDs can realistically show the note "Locate US Parks Service employee @ 50' o/c along upper edge."
The guides and volunteers spend most of their time along the wall. The chain link fence extends around the lawn that separates the wall from the sidewalk. There also drain 15' back from the wall that suggests another barrier- if you felt the need to ignore the signs on the fence that say "Honor those who served, Please stay on Sidewalk."
Aha. Design-based, then.
Can it be done today? Maybe, the code requirement for guardrail (for walkways within 48" of a 30"+ drop) can be interpreted by the local reviewer various ways: some will allow for a plant bed or other non-walking surface to count. Institutions can shy away to prevent liability issues, but sometimes will be more liberal if they want to save on the cost of a rail or if they hate the appearance of a rail.
David,C the signs should say jump at your own risk?
Obviously, and those signs should be placed below and only readable when you extend over the edge far enough...
But seriously, instead of safety signs, they should put signs with a dress code. Going to pay your respects in your swimming trunks and sneakers while wearing a wife beater, that just doesn't make any sense to me...or people taking happy smiley duckface selfies at ground zero.