what are you trying to convey with a different term? it's a term that covers a lot of different circumstances - the context for why a project needs ve matters in trying to explain it.
JeromeS
Sep 20, 16 10:14 pm
Everything becomes a perjorative:
Idiot, becomes moron, becomes retard, becomes nom du jour
go do it
Sep 20, 16 10:26 pm
I am trying to convey a better sense of thoughtful design improvements with the goal of saving money and or a more efficient building and improved production schedule.
When a person hears "value engineering" I beleive it sounds like some smart (?) person came up with a politically correct way to say cheap.
b3tadine[sutures]
Sep 20, 16 10:49 pm
Fisting.
go do it
Sep 21, 16 12:08 am
Economic Analysis to Evaluate Design Alternative...stole from these guys but it sounds worse kind of
how about a bastardized version... Economic Design Analysis
JeromeS
Sep 21, 16 7:57 am
lay it off on the other side; Construction Cost Analysis
Wood Guy
Sep 21, 16 9:30 am
Price planning. That's the term I use, anyway, when the GC is an integral part of the design process, so we don't end up over budget. I guess the same term would apply if the design is complete and we figure out what to cut based on relative costs, though "design massacre" might be better in that case.
ivorykeyboard
Sep 21, 16 10:24 am
Building Solution Alternatives
Wilma Buttfit
Sep 21, 16 10:26 am
Shooting for the moon and landing in the stars. I wish.
digger
Sep 21, 16 11:48 am
"getting the project in budget"
Architects hate the value engineering process because it brings into sharp relief our chronic tendency to design to our own desires and our chronic inability to design to the client's budget.
Kevin Wagner
Sep 21, 16 12:02 pm
Reducing the lipstick on the pig.
,,,,
Sep 21, 16 2:02 pm
Selective Refinement
awaiting_deletion
Sep 22, 16 7:53 am
resource management
Lee Robert
Sep 22, 16 9:04 am
Redesign... if you didn't consider the budget the first time around.
or
Additional Service... if the client changed their mind about the budget they originally set.
Wilma Buttfit
Sep 22, 16 10:18 am
It is a stupid term, but the process is fine. If you don't work big and then fall back then what are you doing? Own it. The problem is the contractor sees an over budget project as an opportunity to throw the architect under the bus and they like to capitalize on that.
urbanity
Sep 22, 16 10:49 am
design refinement is a term that has been used instead of value engineering.
mightyaa
Sep 22, 16 11:20 am
Actually, it isn't a stupid term and a whole formal process, but that term is being used stupidly.
Value Engineering is actually a process and has very little to do with cost cutting. An example is a VE third party analysis on a project we did found using galvanized decking instead of painted resulted in more upfront cost, but much cheaper long term maintenance, so it was a VE recommendation. Other things like higher efficiency equipment, lighting changes, etc. were evaluated and recommendations made. Over the whole VE study, the construction cost actually went up in exchange for longer life-cycle and lower maintenance costs. You can find more about actual Value Engineering here at Society of Value Engineers (SAVE) http://www.value-eng.org/
Unfortunately, estimators have picked up the term over the years and flat out use it to describe cost cutting processes.... I call a duck a duck, so if they are truly just cutting cost down to fit a budget, it is a Cost Cutting Exercise. I'd refuse to call it Value Engineering unless the purpose of the exercise is actually adding value to the building.
3tk
Sep 22, 16 1:51 pm
+1 Design refinement
I've used scope reduction too - best way to cut cost.
Wilma Buttfit
Sep 22, 16 3:46 pm
I like design refinement.
chigurh
Sep 22, 16 4:36 pm
nut cuttin time
mightyaa
Sep 22, 16 5:06 pm
Formative Universal Concept Keystone Expense Deflowering (or fucked for short). Used in a sentence: "My project is getting fucked this week."
Wilma Buttfit
Sep 22, 16 5:27 pm
Ok, mighty, I think you win.
go do it
Sep 22, 16 10:34 pm
That is a good point mightaa. It is only value engineering if it adds value and not just cut cost and falls inline with my goal in my second post. To bad the term has been associated with eliminating or substituting components to save money.
Maybe if we transpose the term and use engineering value instead
i tried a search but came up empty.
is there a better term for "value engineering"?
cost cutting? design optimization? economizing?
what are you trying to convey with a different term? it's a term that covers a lot of different circumstances - the context for why a project needs ve matters in trying to explain it.
Everything becomes a perjorative:
Idiot, becomes moron, becomes retard, becomes nom du jour
I am trying to convey a better sense of thoughtful design improvements with the goal of saving money and or a more efficient building and improved production schedule.
When a person hears "value engineering" I beleive it sounds like some smart (?) person came up with a politically correct way to say cheap.
Fisting.
Economic Analysis to Evaluate Design Alternative...stole from these guys but it sounds worse kind of
how about a bastardized version... Economic Design Analysis
lay it off on the other side; Construction Cost Analysis
Price planning. That's the term I use, anyway, when the GC is an integral part of the design process, so we don't end up over budget. I guess the same term would apply if the design is complete and we figure out what to cut based on relative costs, though "design massacre" might be better in that case.
Building Solution Alternatives
Shooting for the moon and landing in the stars. I wish.
"getting the project in budget"
Architects hate the value engineering process because it brings into sharp relief our chronic tendency to design to our own desires and our chronic inability to design to the client's budget.
Reducing the lipstick on the pig.
Selective Refinement
resource management
Redesign... if you didn't consider the budget the first time around.
or
Additional Service... if the client changed their mind about the budget they originally set.
It is a stupid term, but the process is fine. If you don't work big and then fall back then what are you doing? Own it. The problem is the contractor sees an over budget project as an opportunity to throw the architect under the bus and they like to capitalize on that.
design refinement is a term that has been used instead of value engineering.
Actually, it isn't a stupid term and a whole formal process, but that term is being used stupidly.
Value Engineering is actually a process and has very little to do with cost cutting. An example is a VE third party analysis on a project we did found using galvanized decking instead of painted resulted in more upfront cost, but much cheaper long term maintenance, so it was a VE recommendation. Other things like higher efficiency equipment, lighting changes, etc. were evaluated and recommendations made. Over the whole VE study, the construction cost actually went up in exchange for longer life-cycle and lower maintenance costs. You can find more about actual Value Engineering here at Society of Value Engineers (SAVE) http://www.value-eng.org/
Unfortunately, estimators have picked up the term over the years and flat out use it to describe cost cutting processes.... I call a duck a duck, so if they are truly just cutting cost down to fit a budget, it is a Cost Cutting Exercise. I'd refuse to call it Value Engineering unless the purpose of the exercise is actually adding value to the building.
+1 Design refinement
I've used scope reduction too - best way to cut cost.
I like design refinement.
nut cuttin time
Formative Universal Concept Keystone Expense Deflowering (or fucked for short). Used in a sentence: "My project is getting fucked this week."
Ok, mighty, I think you win.
That is a good point mightaa. It is only value engineering if it adds value and not just cut cost and falls inline with my goal in my second post. To bad the term has been associated with eliminating or substituting components to save money.
Maybe if we transpose the term and use engineering value instead