I recently graduated with a BA in geography/ environmental studies. However, I keep finding myself doing a lot of drafting and modeling work, but don't want to remain a CAD or Revit monkey for the foreseeable future. I enjoy the Architecture field and want to pursue a license. I don't have money to go for an MA. So is it possible for me to obtain the license without the educational portion and just do the AXP and exams? If not, what are my options? I do see NCARB has an "alternative to professional degree (in architecture)", but I do think it only applies to already registered architects (http://www.ncarb.org/News-and-Events/News/2016/June-Education-Certificate.aspx) I'm in California if that's any help in terms of reference.
Non Sequitur
Aug 20, 16 6:22 am
"So is it possible for me to obtain the license without the educational portion"
Can I get a spot on the Olympic team without training? Pretty please? I really want to but I'm just too lazy to make the effort like the rest of them. Surely there exists a loop whole that I can abuse instead.
Build a portfolio, finish an M.arch, finish IDP, take your exams, then apply for license.
If the above is too much, perhaps you could just become a petty "building designer".
Volunteer
Aug 20, 16 9:13 am
'architecturecareerguide' lists the fifteen states where you can obtain a license without college. You need to get in touch with that state's licensing board for details. Given the costs of college, especially the Master's where the government has removed all restrictions on the amount you can borrow, and the tuition has exploded, working and self-educating should not be ruled out, in my opinion.
gruen
Aug 20, 16 10:02 am
Say "Ricky" six times while looking in the mirror and you will be legal for architecture, don't worry.
geo_ready
Aug 20, 16 10:42 am
Thanks Volunteer for understanding my intent and not being unhelpful, patronizing, and condescending. Working and learning based on experience from a licensed architect is not being lazy. Using the Olympics as a counter point to my question is like saying Olympians should go to college and major in Kineseology before they bother going for the Olympics.
Volunteer
Aug 20, 16 10:50 am
Abraham Lincoln taught himself surveying before plotting out several towns in the Midwest. That was before he taught himself to be a lawyer and passed the law exam. The OP is working in the field now, and the OP already has an undergraduate degree. When you calculate the costs of forgone income for two or three years he would incur while attending school and the massive student loan repayments he would incur it makes sense to consider not taking on additional schooling if his state allows an alternative path and the time difference to licensure is not too great. Bringing up the background of a seriously mentally-ill individual who has never held a job at all is pointless.
Non Sequitur
Aug 20, 16 10:51 am
^no it's not you lazy fool.
ricky^3
geo_ready
Aug 20, 16 11:09 am
Volunteer, you nailed my point. I have tens of thousands of dollars of debt. The debt plus the money I will to take out in loans plus not working sets me up for heavy financial burden I cannot afford.
And Non Sequitor, who are you talking with? I come here to get helpful advice and all you do is air punch.
Non Sequitur
Aug 20, 16 11:14 am
My comment was in reply to your misunderstanding of my original Olympic analogy.
Want to play architect? either go trough the normal gauntlet or move to a place that does not require them. There are no special princess short cuts.
Wood Guy
Aug 20, 16 11:21 am
Geo_ready, while making the right choice at age 17 about what you want to do with the rest of your life would have been easier and the more conventional route, in many states you can indeed become a licensed architect without following the right degree, as you discovered. It's on a state-by-state basis. It takes more time; in my state, 13 years of office experience, but for some of us going back to school after making a poor decision as a teenager is not an option, so you have to do what you have to do.
geo_ready
Aug 20, 16 11:41 am
There was no misunderstanding in your original Olympic analogy, Non Sequitor; you made a false analogy.. No architecture school needed to know that.
To your point, Wood Guy, my state is 8 years of experience and/or school (but considering my Bachelor's to a related field in Architecture (knocks 2 years off) and my willingness to attend community college (which knocks 1 year off)) I'll need 5 years of working experience, then I can do AXP, and ARE.
Thanks Volunteer and Wood Guy!
Any, helpful, follow up advice is appreciated.
Aug 20, 16 2:31 pm
Geo_ready, while making the right choice at age 17 about what you want to do with the rest of your life would have been easier and the more conventional route, in many states you can indeed become a licensed architect without following the right degree, as you discovered. It's on a state-by-state basis. It takes more time; in my state, 13 years of office experience, but for some of us going back to school after making a poor decision as a teenager is not an option, so you have to do what you have to do.
Making those kinds of decisions at age 17 just doesn't work anymore. There aren't many stable careers in the United States, anymore. It has became more of a normality that people switch careers throughout their life and that requires re-education. Consider the fact that the career a person may have wanted to go into at 17 goes through a massive trend of being outsourced to foreign countries and it's just not realistically possible for the person to just move to India or China (case examples of where a number of jobs went to).
At age 17, most people don't know what they want to be or how life's circumstances are going to take them.
I don't know the specific circumstances of geo_ready so my reply really doesn't target him so much.
Aug 20, 16 2:36 pm
geo_ready,
You are talking about California. You can get an architecture license even with only a high school diploma. Your biggest challenge will be getting licensed.
Main thing, get a job. If I was living in California and was pursuing architecture, I would have done that. States where licensing by experience path is available are states where you may find firms hiring without requiring a degree. It may take 8 years or more for you to get yourself ready for the exam.
Aug 20, 16 2:43 pm
In states that don't have experience (without a degree) path to licensure, the firms tends to always require an approved degree. It's nearly impossible to find a firm in those states (like Oregon) that doesn't require a degree.
BulgarBlogger
Aug 20, 16 3:32 pm
Im happy I got my BArch and never have to attend grad school. Im licensed and damn does it feel good that I made the choices I did at 17. Choices you make at 17 or even 18 or 19, are almost never clear or easy, but if you know that you want to be an architect, making the choice that is harder in a short term will pay off many times over over the course of your lifetime. Just FYI- even if you get licensed in a state that requires only a HS diploma or a bachelors degree in an inrelated field, does not mean that you can automatically obtain reciprocity in another state. I would just go for an MArch... It will save you headaches down the road...
Volunteer
Aug 20, 16 4:00 pm
OK, which states would deny reciprocity to a licensed architect from another state who achieved his license on the basis of experience?
Donna Sink
Aug 20, 16 4:03 pm
geo I think the only thing not mentioned yet is if you get licensed through the broadly experienced route or whatever it's called by those 15 or so states that allow it you cannot get reciprocity in the states that DO require a professional degree for licensure. If you want to get licensed and stay in one state, that's fine and not an issue, but don't misunderstand that getting licensed in one state means you can practice legally in any other state. Each state has its own rules.
Volunteer
Aug 20, 16 4:18 pm
Well, fifteen states do not require a degree so why would he have to stay in one state? And none of the other 35 states would issue reciprocity? I find that hard to believe.
Aug 20, 16 5:36 pm
Volunteer,
Not so hard to believe but there are states that denied people because they didn't consider the meeting those experience alternate paths as equal to their own. If you look at Oregon's own rules (the licensing requirements are detailed out in the administrative rules vs. the statutes which are pretty undefined), Oregon would deny reciprocity of someone licensed by experience path unless they have been NCARB "certified" via the BEA based on how the administrative rules are written.
22 states accept a "buff cover" for reciprocal license. You end up with a buff cover from NCARB when you utilize an experience path for IDP and ARE. 30 states say they do not require an NCARB certificate for reciprocal registration. Whatever that may mean. Seems like plenty of choices...
Aug 20, 16 9:06 pm
JeromeS,
Lets determine of the states that are NOT the 15 or so states that do not require a degree for initial registration, how many of those states except the buff cover with regards to reciprocity?
That 22 figure could be less because some of them would be states that DO accept experience only as an alternate path of initial registration and also accept buff cover for those under reciprocity.
JeromeS
Aug 20, 16 9:20 pm
Are you an idiot? Why do you have to make everything harder than it has to be?
You identified 15 states with a path to licensure using experience. Great- well done. Then the thread drifted to an aside about being locked into working only in one place. The insightful person then realizes that when i say there are 22 locations that accept a buff cover, that means you can parlay that experience and initial license into another and ultimately live and work in nearly half the country- perhaps even 60% of states based on those states not requiring NCARB for reciprocal.
No one gives a shit whether the 15 and the 22 overlap. That's not the point. Stop making everything so damn difficult. Go earn your first license. Complete IDP. Or even, get a job. Stop talking about everything else.
BulgarBlogger
Aug 20, 16 9:23 pm
funny how I said exactly what Donna said and I got not credit lol
Donna Sink
Aug 20, 16 10:21 pm
Sorry Bulgar! I nodded in agreement with "glad I got a BArch" then kinda glazed over until "just go for the MArch", which I also nodded in agreement with. So I missed what you actually said!
BulgarBlogger
Aug 20, 16 10:59 pm
Lol- no worries :) I was kidding ;)
Aug 20, 16 11:50 pm
JeromeS,
Why do you have to make everything harder than it has to be?
I'm not the one making the rules of licensing in each state. It's not as simple as get licensed at a place via experience path and then get reciprocity in any state that accepts the 'buff cover'. It is more involved than that. There are all kinds of reasons or excuses these boards may make to deny you licensure.
You identified 15 states with a path to licensure using experience. Great- well done.
Those thanks belongs to Donna and Volunteer. I'm just going with their facts for the time being as I am not excited in looking each of them up.
Then the thread drifted to an aside about being locked into working only in one place.
I never said the person was locked to working in one location.
The insightful person then realizes that when i say there are 22 locations that accept a buff cover, that means you can parlay that experience and initial license into another and ultimately live and work in nearly half the country- perhaps even 60% of states based on those states not requiring NCARB for reciprocal.
Okay.... most people who would be getting licensed in a place and is looking at reciprocity, they'll be looking at licensure in states adjacent to the state where they are initially licensed which is usually the state where they are located. In my case, it would be exceptional. Most people LIVE in the state where they are initially licensed. Although, not always the case. So a person getting licensed in California is going to be looking at Nevada, Arizona and Oregon. Most architects only considers reciprocity to states where they can reasonably travel to by automobile travel. Most architects only conducts architecture in a local/regional window. This relates to a general practice ethos where the architect must be able to meet their clients and discuss client projects in person. This is a throwback ethos from before telephones.
In case of California, the OP could pursue reciprocity with Arizona but Nevada & Oregon won't accept a buff cover. Of the THREE states that directly borders California that can be traveled to by automobile, only ONE. The concentric ring of states on the land would be 5 states. Those are Washington, Idaho, Utah, Colorado, and New Mexico.
Of those 5 states, the States that accepts buff cover:
Washington, Idaho, and Colorado.
The two others did not.
If I include Montana and Wyoming into that concentric ring with those five states, neither of those two states will accept the buff cover.
In a little over 1/3 (about 40% roughing by the eye) of the geographical area of the continental 48 states of the U.S., only 5 states (including California itself) accepts the NCARB "buff cover".
Even IF they accept buff cover, this is no guarantee the reciprocity would be approved. Those states have to deem the candidates education/experience that got them licensed in the other state(s) is equivalent to their licensing requirements. If you got licensed in California or Arizona, you might not get reciprocity in Washington because Washington has a minimum of 9 years experience requirement but California has 8 years. There is also different IDP (I mean AXP) requirements as there is not just a 5600 training hours requirement, there is a FULL 3-YEAR AXP experience requirement. There is also different education and/or experience qualification standards. Lets say you got initial license in Arizona, you may still not be approved for licensure via reciprocity in Washington because of different requirements. The board decides whether to accept or not to accept.
I don't make up the rules for these boards. They make it harder for all kinds of reasons and/or excuses. I am just outlining that there are all KINDS of issues you may come across.
Aug 21, 16 12:03 am
As for me getting licensed as an architect, we'll see.
I recently graduated with a BA in geography/ environmental studies. However, I keep finding myself doing a lot of drafting and modeling work, but don't want to remain a CAD or Revit monkey for the foreseeable future. I enjoy the Architecture field and want to pursue a license. I don't have money to go for an MA. So is it possible for me to obtain the license without the educational portion and just do the AXP and exams? If not, what are my options? I do see NCARB has an "alternative to professional degree (in architecture)", but I do think it only applies to already registered architects (http://www.ncarb.org/News-and-Events/News/2016/June-Education-Certificate.aspx) I'm in California if that's any help in terms of reference.
"So is it possible for me to obtain the license without the educational portion"
Can I get a spot on the Olympic team without training? Pretty please? I really want to but I'm just too lazy to make the effort like the rest of them. Surely there exists a loop whole that I can abuse instead.
Build a portfolio, finish an M.arch, finish IDP, take your exams, then apply for license.
If the above is too much, perhaps you could just become a petty "building designer".
'architecturecareerguide' lists the fifteen states where you can obtain a license without college. You need to get in touch with that state's licensing board for details. Given the costs of college, especially the Master's where the government has removed all restrictions on the amount you can borrow, and the tuition has exploded, working and self-educating should not be ruled out, in my opinion.
Say "Ricky" six times while looking in the mirror and you will be legal for architecture, don't worry.
Thanks Volunteer for understanding my intent and not being unhelpful, patronizing, and condescending. Working and learning based on experience from a licensed architect is not being lazy. Using the Olympics as a counter point to my question is like saying Olympians should go to college and major in Kineseology before they bother going for the Olympics.
Abraham Lincoln taught himself surveying before plotting out several towns in the Midwest. That was before he taught himself to be a lawyer and passed the law exam. The OP is working in the field now, and the OP already has an undergraduate degree. When you calculate the costs of forgone income for two or three years he would incur while attending school and the massive student loan repayments he would incur it makes sense to consider not taking on additional schooling if his state allows an alternative path and the time difference to licensure is not too great. Bringing up the background of a seriously mentally-ill individual who has never held a job at all is pointless.
^no it's not you lazy fool.
ricky^3
Volunteer, you nailed my point. I have tens of thousands of dollars of debt. The debt plus the money I will to take out in loans plus not working sets me up for heavy financial burden I cannot afford.
And Non Sequitor, who are you talking with? I come here to get helpful advice and all you do is air punch.
My comment was in reply to your misunderstanding of my original Olympic analogy.
Want to play architect? either go trough the normal gauntlet or move to a place that does not require them. There are no special princess short cuts.
Geo_ready, while making the right choice at age 17 about what you want to do with the rest of your life would have been easier and the more conventional route, in many states you can indeed become a licensed architect without following the right degree, as you discovered. It's on a state-by-state basis. It takes more time; in my state, 13 years of office experience, but for some of us going back to school after making a poor decision as a teenager is not an option, so you have to do what you have to do.
There was no misunderstanding in your original Olympic analogy, Non Sequitor; you made a false analogy.. No architecture school needed to know that.
To your point, Wood Guy, my state is 8 years of experience and/or school (but considering my Bachelor's to a related field in Architecture (knocks 2 years off) and my willingness to attend community college (which knocks 1 year off)) I'll need 5 years of working experience, then I can do AXP, and ARE.
Thanks Volunteer and Wood Guy!
Any, helpful, follow up advice is appreciated.
Geo_ready, while making the right choice at age 17 about what you want to do with the rest of your life would have been easier and the more conventional route, in many states you can indeed become a licensed architect without following the right degree, as you discovered. It's on a state-by-state basis. It takes more time; in my state, 13 years of office experience, but for some of us going back to school after making a poor decision as a teenager is not an option, so you have to do what you have to do.
Making those kinds of decisions at age 17 just doesn't work anymore. There aren't many stable careers in the United States, anymore. It has became more of a normality that people switch careers throughout their life and that requires re-education. Consider the fact that the career a person may have wanted to go into at 17 goes through a massive trend of being outsourced to foreign countries and it's just not realistically possible for the person to just move to India or China (case examples of where a number of jobs went to).
At age 17, most people don't know what they want to be or how life's circumstances are going to take them.
I don't know the specific circumstances of geo_ready so my reply really doesn't target him so much.
geo_ready,
You are talking about California. You can get an architecture license even with only a high school diploma. Your biggest challenge will be getting licensed.
Main thing, get a job. If I was living in California and was pursuing architecture, I would have done that. States where licensing by experience path is available are states where you may find firms hiring without requiring a degree. It may take 8 years or more for you to get yourself ready for the exam.
In states that don't have experience (without a degree) path to licensure, the firms tends to always require an approved degree. It's nearly impossible to find a firm in those states (like Oregon) that doesn't require a degree.
Im happy I got my BArch and never have to attend grad school. Im licensed and damn does it feel good that I made the choices I did at 17. Choices you make at 17 or even 18 or 19, are almost never clear or easy, but if you know that you want to be an architect, making the choice that is harder in a short term will pay off many times over over the course of your lifetime. Just FYI- even if you get licensed in a state that requires only a HS diploma or a bachelors degree in an inrelated field, does not mean that you can automatically obtain reciprocity in another state. I would just go for an MArch... It will save you headaches down the road...
OK, which states would deny reciprocity to a licensed architect from another state who achieved his license on the basis of experience?
geo I think the only thing not mentioned yet is if you get licensed through the broadly experienced route or whatever it's called by those 15 or so states that allow it you cannot get reciprocity in the states that DO require a professional degree for licensure. If you want to get licensed and stay in one state, that's fine and not an issue, but don't misunderstand that getting licensed in one state means you can practice legally in any other state. Each state has its own rules.
Well, fifteen states do not require a degree so why would he have to stay in one state? And none of the other 35 states would issue reciprocity? I find that hard to believe.
Volunteer,
Not so hard to believe but there are states that denied people because they didn't consider the meeting those experience alternate paths as equal to their own. If you look at Oregon's own rules (the licensing requirements are detailed out in the administrative rules vs. the statutes which are pretty undefined), Oregon would deny reciprocity of someone licensed by experience path unless they have been NCARB "certified" via the BEA based on how the administrative rules are written.
http://arcweb.sos.state.or.us/pages/rules/oars_800/oar_806/806_010.html
Enough said.
Others can chime in about other states.
22 states accept a "buff cover" for reciprocal license. You end up with a buff cover from NCARB when you utilize an experience path for IDP and ARE. 30 states say they do not require an NCARB certificate for reciprocal registration. Whatever that may mean. Seems like plenty of choices...
JeromeS,
Lets determine of the states that are NOT the 15 or so states that do not require a degree for initial registration, how many of those states except the buff cover with regards to reciprocity?
That 22 figure could be less because some of them would be states that DO accept experience only as an alternate path of initial registration and also accept buff cover for those under reciprocity.
Are you an idiot? Why do you have to make everything harder than it has to be?
You identified 15 states with a path to licensure using experience. Great- well done. Then the thread drifted to an aside about being locked into working only in one place. The insightful person then realizes that when i say there are 22 locations that accept a buff cover, that means you can parlay that experience and initial license into another and ultimately live and work in nearly half the country- perhaps even 60% of states based on those states not requiring NCARB for reciprocal.
No one gives a shit whether the 15 and the 22 overlap. That's not the point. Stop making everything so damn difficult. Go earn your first license. Complete IDP. Or even, get a job. Stop talking about everything else.
funny how I said exactly what Donna said and I got not credit lol
Sorry Bulgar! I nodded in agreement with "glad I got a BArch" then kinda glazed over until "just go for the MArch", which I also nodded in agreement with. So I missed what you actually said!
Lol- no worries :) I was kidding ;)
JeromeS,
Why do you have to make everything harder than it has to be?
I'm not the one making the rules of licensing in each state. It's not as simple as get licensed at a place via experience path and then get reciprocity in any state that accepts the 'buff cover'. It is more involved than that. There are all kinds of reasons or excuses these boards may make to deny you licensure.
You identified 15 states with a path to licensure using experience. Great- well done.
Those thanks belongs to Donna and Volunteer. I'm just going with their facts for the time being as I am not excited in looking each of them up.
Then the thread drifted to an aside about being locked into working only in one place.
I never said the person was locked to working in one location.
The insightful person then realizes that when i say there are 22 locations that accept a buff cover, that means you can parlay that experience and initial license into another and ultimately live and work in nearly half the country- perhaps even 60% of states based on those states not requiring NCARB for reciprocal.
Okay.... most people who would be getting licensed in a place and is looking at reciprocity, they'll be looking at licensure in states adjacent to the state where they are initially licensed which is usually the state where they are located. In my case, it would be exceptional. Most people LIVE in the state where they are initially licensed. Although, not always the case. So a person getting licensed in California is going to be looking at Nevada, Arizona and Oregon. Most architects only considers reciprocity to states where they can reasonably travel to by automobile travel. Most architects only conducts architecture in a local/regional window. This relates to a general practice ethos where the architect must be able to meet their clients and discuss client projects in person. This is a throwback ethos from before telephones.
In case of California, the OP could pursue reciprocity with Arizona but Nevada & Oregon won't accept a buff cover. Of the THREE states that directly borders California that can be traveled to by automobile, only ONE. The concentric ring of states on the land would be 5 states. Those are Washington, Idaho, Utah, Colorado, and New Mexico.
Of those 5 states, the States that accepts buff cover:
Washington, Idaho, and Colorado.
The two others did not.
If I include Montana and Wyoming into that concentric ring with those five states, neither of those two states will accept the buff cover.
In a little over 1/3 (about 40% roughing by the eye) of the geographical area of the continental 48 states of the U.S., only 5 states (including California itself) accepts the NCARB "buff cover".
Even IF they accept buff cover, this is no guarantee the reciprocity would be approved. Those states have to deem the candidates education/experience that got them licensed in the other state(s) is equivalent to their licensing requirements. If you got licensed in California or Arizona, you might not get reciprocity in Washington because Washington has a minimum of 9 years experience requirement but California has 8 years. There is also different IDP (I mean AXP) requirements as there is not just a 5600 training hours requirement, there is a FULL 3-YEAR AXP experience requirement. There is also different education and/or experience qualification standards. Lets say you got initial license in Arizona, you may still not be approved for licensure via reciprocity in Washington because of different requirements. The board decides whether to accept or not to accept.
I don't make up the rules for these boards. They make it harder for all kinds of reasons and/or excuses. I am just outlining that there are all KINDS of issues you may come across.
As for me getting licensed as an architect, we'll see.