I run a startup which creates virtual reality for architecture experiences. We generally take models made by architects (in 2D or 3D format) and turn those into realistic VR environments, allowing architects and their clients to walk around the structure before its built.
I'm currently doing some more in-depth market research and I'm looking to find case studies on some particular use cases for VR. One of the more obvious uses is to help clients understand the architect's design, letting them know what they'll be getting rather than being surprised at how it turns out once it gets built.
For this I'm trying to find any relevant case studies where VR has been used for this, or where maybe a client wasn't happy with the end product, claiming they couldn't understand the design in the format it was given to them. Does anyone know of anything like this?
I'd also love to hear your opinions on using VR for architects and maybe other use cases for it other than ones I've already thought of.
Cheers,
Joe
Dangermouse
Jul 14, 16 12:19 pm
AR is the future. VR is just a development phase to AR.
JonathanLivingston
Jul 14, 16 8:01 pm
I have seriously been approached by at least 3 people like yourself with "a startup VR for architects proposal"
All these VR AR Tech kids and their big problem is relevant content.
I will tell you right now there is very little market and that's why you don't have relevant cases. architects don't need another layer of images to describe what they are creating. they have successfully been conveying design intent through plenty of other media for a long time.
it's the same thing with all these rendering companies. Every project doesn't need a rendering, when they do it's an added expense and done for marketing purposes meaning you might as well bill high and charge a lot for it, manage the process in-house for a quality product because it's an easy value to sell for that one instance.
Create a Design software that works in VR and we can talk otherwise you're really just dealing with the same issue as a rendering or any other marketing tool. Heck some would call most 3d modeling programs VR and that an actual design tool we can use.
_jtlr
Jul 15, 16 6:17 am
@jonathanLivingston I do definitely agree that not all projects need rendering, for some its not financially viable and for others the design just doesn't warrant it. We do tend to market ourselves at medium to large architect firms with more high end projects where this tech would be more suitable and affordable.
I also agree that current and past methods of conveying designs are successful and I'm not suggesting they should be abandoned. VR is a very powerful technology though (as well as AR which has also been mentioned) and there are case studies of it being used successfuly to help convey a design and gain planning permission (http://www.bimplus.co.uk/technology/used-london-planning-application/). From my point of view, VR brings something that 3d image renders and videos can't - real world scale.
We go to a lot of tradeshows and events and one of the most comment comments we get from people (architects included) is that some people do find it difficult to understand a design and that VR does help 'bring it to life'.
You mention that a design software which worked seamlessly with VR may be of interest to you, so you must feel that there is some use for VR being applied to architectural designs?
I'm really interested to hear more of your opinion about this as you are our target market, if you're not interested in this for any reason, that's an issue for us and it would be great to find out what we could do to make this a more appealing prospect for you and other architects who share the same views.
mightyaa
Jul 15, 16 10:24 am
It's the distribution thing assuming the VR you are talking about is the glasses thing. As jonathan pointed out, it's a marketing tool (selling this idea). So, press releases; print, online, etc. The other less common that we do is models. They can be set up in lobbies, board rooms, etc. to encourage discussions and comments and generate 'buy in' or sense of excitement and growth.
VR isn't a casual introduction like something you walk by and it pulls you in so you want to know more. It is more of a destination for someone who already is hooked. So pointless from a marketing standpoint since the only crowd you are talking to is already under contract. Maybe once VR hardware is mainstream... but right now you can't even get people to put on 3d glasses to watch tv.
It can help with the visualization... but lets be honest here. It is hard to convince someone to pay hard cash to develop a virtual model instead of putting that money into the final product (the building itself). Most the clients who are requesting renders/models aren't construction "illiterate" either; so they understand drawings and want these things to sell it to investor groups, staff buy-in, their own PR programs, etc. They are essentially trying to introduce themselves to the public. So the media needs to be broadly accepted to reach the most people. VR isn't there.
JonathanLivingston
Jul 15, 16 12:45 pm
I agree with mightyaa on the limitation that VR has as a marketing tool. When compared to say print or physical models which require less commitment to consume.
Where I think VR for architects could be useful is when someone develops a comprehensive set of tools around actual design within a VR type environment.
I spend days twirling around massing models in SketchUp, Revit, or Rhino. Setting up cameras, constantly interrogating a digital model from different perspectives. I would imagine that a VR system could provide a greater control over my ability to assess my work, evaluate compositions and form a more accurate perspective. If you developed a tool that actually helps to model / draw things better then we would be talking about something that's not just cool, but immensely valuable to the actual trade of design. Something I might be able to justify spending consistent money on.
Basically you need to think beyond VR or AR as just a visualization tool and take it to the level of a WYSIWYG graphical user interface for a design task. A simple thing like adjusting and applying textures to a model in real time in a VR or AR system would be a good start. That way the content problem is solved because your system is what is used to create the content, rather than just display it.
You would think Autodesk or someone would already be on this, but then I imagine some sort of dystopic architecture office full of cad monkeys in helmets.
JonathanLivingston
Jul 15, 16 1:02 pm
Actually being able to manipulate something in VR/AR environment also helps gets you around the biggest challenge of any display media: The more accurately you show something the easier it is to spot flaws. Any architect will tell you this is a huge danger of renderings and a big reason they are not done until a project is fully designed. It is better to control the conversation with more schematic drawings and a deliberate focus, so you can keep design progress and decision making moving forward rather than sidetracked on some detail that hasn't been fleshed out yet.
Conversely most of these VR for architecture startups seem to think we want to let people walk around our half finished thoughts pointing out what we haven't done yet. Architects just don't want that. It is not productive for design. If you can build a process that allows decisions to be made, the model to be altered and saved it can be a productive tool for design rather than jut display.
Marc, that's cool stuff. I have seen some other videos where someone is pushing and pulling these blob type forms in an AR environment, i think Microsoft's holo lense. I will try and find. But yeah that's what I think a functional AR system for architects will need to do. Actual design work.
"We go to a lot of tradeshows and events and one of the most comment comments we get from people (architects included) is that some people do find it difficult to understand a design and that VR does help 'bring it to life'."
I'm sorry but at this point, with the tools available to architects if you are having difficulty getting people to understand a design then another layer of technology is probably only going to cause more problems than it solves.
VR is here to stay this time, anyone who has tryed it knows it, in a couple of months play station will release its VR display and it'll help push this technology to the mainstream, so with time it'll only become cheaper and more accessible to everyone even on the PC high end of it, which is needed for architectural visualization.
Let me tell you about my latest experience with VR and architecture; I'm a real estate manager and investor, among other things, and happen to be a VR enthusiast (yes maybe I'm biased) the latest project I invested in its an apartment complex and I took a couple of desitions based on VR. First of all the land where it is going to be built has a small front and it's surrounded by buildings so it seemed small from my perspective for the size of the complex. Although architects told me otherwise I just couldn't help but think the main plaza, which is in the middle of 4 buildings, would be too small. Around the same time I had to take the desition to invest, I got my htc Vive from the mail. The first thing I did was ask the architect for the sketchup model of the project and I used a tool called irisVR to lunch it in my brand new goggles; and there I was, standing in the middle of this plaza looking up to 4 buildings which are not supposed to be seen like this until next year. Trust me I had seen the prettiest renders and all the blueprints, checked measures etc but nothing compared to this, I decided to go for the investment in that moment because now I had no doubt the plaza was big enough and the project had all the elements that would make it successful.
But that's not all, the time came when I had to choose an apartment that I'll keep and I looked at all the floor plans but that wasn't enough now that I could "cheat", I walked through the buildings, I looked at the views, I chacked where the sun raised (irisVR lets you change time of day with Geo location), where it set, from what time to what time it would hit windows, how far would my building neighbours wold be, and the next day I called the office to schedule a meeting to let them know my desition.
Sorry if I went for too long but there you have it, even if architects them selves don't want to use VR I think investors and final clients will, keep doing what you're doing and stay away from 360 panoramic views, that's not where it's at in my opinion, leve that to marketing companies. Google VR for arch, you'll find some resources
A.I.
Jul 17, 16 8:35 am
The only revolutionary implementation of AR I can see in the industry is for Construction Professionals. Assuming a well-done BIM Model is available for construction, I imagine a future where contractors would be able to overlay digital models over real world construction as they build (with some sort of google-glass type of tech). Imagine turning layers of the building off and on superimposed over actual construction using AR.
Justin Serran
Apr 4, 17 10:05 am
Norm Li's (leading architectural firm in Canada) discusses his views on VR and how it's changing the industry. Some useful information in here forsure!
As someone who's both an Architect and some one who runs my own visualization studio I'll tell you this. Know your audience. Some people can't understand renderings and need something more immersive. Others are confused by all the fancy stuff and better understand simple plans and elevations. Then there's some that no matter how realistic or immersive the visuals are, they still don't fully understand.
Now once you get into marketing it's another story. The whole point is to sell, so the flashier more innovative the content, the better.
Hey guys,
I run a startup which creates virtual reality for architecture experiences. We generally take models made by architects (in 2D or 3D format) and turn those into realistic VR environments, allowing architects and their clients to walk around the structure before its built.
I'm currently doing some more in-depth market research and I'm looking to find case studies on some particular use cases for VR. One of the more obvious uses is to help clients understand the architect's design, letting them know what they'll be getting rather than being surprised at how it turns out once it gets built.
For this I'm trying to find any relevant case studies where VR has been used for this, or where maybe a client wasn't happy with the end product, claiming they couldn't understand the design in the format it was given to them. Does anyone know of anything like this?
I'd also love to hear your opinions on using VR for architects and maybe other use cases for it other than ones I've already thought of.
Cheers,
Joe
AR is the future. VR is just a development phase to AR.
I have seriously been approached by at least 3 people like yourself with "a startup VR for architects proposal"
All these VR AR Tech kids and their big problem is relevant content.
I will tell you right now there is very little market and that's why you don't have relevant cases. architects don't need another layer of images to describe what they are creating. they have successfully been conveying design intent through plenty of other media for a long time.
it's the same thing with all these rendering companies. Every project doesn't need a rendering, when they do it's an added expense and done for marketing purposes meaning you might as well bill high and charge a lot for it, manage the process in-house for a quality product because it's an easy value to sell for that one instance.
Create a Design software that works in VR and we can talk otherwise you're really just dealing with the same issue as a rendering or any other marketing tool. Heck some would call most 3d modeling programs VR and that an actual design tool we can use.
@jonathanLivingston I do definitely agree that not all projects need rendering, for some its not financially viable and for others the design just doesn't warrant it. We do tend to market ourselves at medium to large architect firms with more high end projects where this tech would be more suitable and affordable.
I also agree that current and past methods of conveying designs are successful and I'm not suggesting they should be abandoned. VR is a very powerful technology though (as well as AR which has also been mentioned) and there are case studies of it being used successfuly to help convey a design and gain planning permission (http://www.bimplus.co.uk/technology/used-london-planning-application/). From my point of view, VR brings something that 3d image renders and videos can't - real world scale.
We go to a lot of tradeshows and events and one of the most comment comments we get from people (architects included) is that some people do find it difficult to understand a design and that VR does help 'bring it to life'.
You mention that a design software which worked seamlessly with VR may be of interest to you, so you must feel that there is some use for VR being applied to architectural designs?
I'm really interested to hear more of your opinion about this as you are our target market, if you're not interested in this for any reason, that's an issue for us and it would be great to find out what we could do to make this a more appealing prospect for you and other architects who share the same views.
It's the distribution thing assuming the VR you are talking about is the glasses thing. As jonathan pointed out, it's a marketing tool (selling this idea). So, press releases; print, online, etc. The other less common that we do is models. They can be set up in lobbies, board rooms, etc. to encourage discussions and comments and generate 'buy in' or sense of excitement and growth.
VR isn't a casual introduction like something you walk by and it pulls you in so you want to know more. It is more of a destination for someone who already is hooked. So pointless from a marketing standpoint since the only crowd you are talking to is already under contract. Maybe once VR hardware is mainstream... but right now you can't even get people to put on 3d glasses to watch tv.
It can help with the visualization... but lets be honest here. It is hard to convince someone to pay hard cash to develop a virtual model instead of putting that money into the final product (the building itself). Most the clients who are requesting renders/models aren't construction "illiterate" either; so they understand drawings and want these things to sell it to investor groups, staff buy-in, their own PR programs, etc. They are essentially trying to introduce themselves to the public. So the media needs to be broadly accepted to reach the most people. VR isn't there.
I agree with mightyaa on the limitation that VR has as a marketing tool. When compared to say print or physical models which require less commitment to consume.
Where I think VR for architects could be useful is when someone develops a comprehensive set of tools around actual design within a VR type environment.
I spend days twirling around massing models in SketchUp, Revit, or Rhino. Setting up cameras, constantly interrogating a digital model from different perspectives. I would imagine that a VR system could provide a greater control over my ability to assess my work, evaluate compositions and form a more accurate perspective. If you developed a tool that actually helps to model / draw things better then we would be talking about something that's not just cool, but immensely valuable to the actual trade of design. Something I might be able to justify spending consistent money on.
Basically you need to think beyond VR or AR as just a visualization tool and take it to the level of a WYSIWYG graphical user interface for a design task. A simple thing like adjusting and applying textures to a model in real time in a VR or AR system would be a good start. That way the content problem is solved because your system is what is used to create the content, rather than just display it.
You would think Autodesk or someone would already be on this, but then I imagine some sort of dystopic architecture office full of cad monkeys in helmets.
Actually being able to manipulate something in VR/AR environment also helps gets you around the biggest challenge of any display media: The more accurately you show something the easier it is to spot flaws. Any architect will tell you this is a huge danger of renderings and a big reason they are not done until a project is fully designed. It is better to control the conversation with more schematic drawings and a deliberate focus, so you can keep design progress and decision making moving forward rather than sidetracked on some detail that hasn't been fleshed out yet.
Conversely most of these VR for architecture startups seem to think we want to let people walk around our half finished thoughts pointing out what we haven't done yet. Architects just don't want that. It is not productive for design. If you can build a process that allows decisions to be made, the model to be altered and saved it can be a productive tool for design rather than jut display.
Speaking of...
Marc, that's cool stuff. I have seen some other videos where someone is pushing and pulling these blob type forms in an AR environment, i think Microsoft's holo lense. I will try and find. But yeah that's what I think a functional AR system for architects will need to do. Actual design work.
"We go to a lot of tradeshows and events and one of the most comment comments we get from people (architects included) is that some people do find it difficult to understand a design and that VR does help 'bring it to life'."
I'm sorry but at this point, with the tools available to architects if you are having difficulty getting people to understand a design then another layer of technology is probably only going to cause more problems than it solves.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXVW4sUsh3A
Microsoft and SketchUp. But they are incorporating some ability to create and manipulate designs with the system.
Chipman Design has a VR product called blue marble I think, they do some of the services you are proposing already.
http://www.bluemarble3d.com/Network/ChipmanDesignArchitecture.aspx
http://www.chipman-design.com/
VR is here to stay this time, anyone who has tryed it knows it, in a couple of months play station will release its VR display and it'll help push this technology to the mainstream, so with time it'll only become cheaper and more accessible to everyone even on the PC high end of it, which is needed for architectural visualization.
Let me tell you about my latest experience with VR and architecture; I'm a real estate manager and investor, among other things, and happen to be a VR enthusiast (yes maybe I'm biased) the latest project I invested in its an apartment complex and I took a couple of desitions based on VR. First of all the land where it is going to be built has a small front and it's surrounded by buildings so it seemed small from my perspective for the size of the complex. Although architects told me otherwise I just couldn't help but think the main plaza, which is in the middle of 4 buildings, would be too small. Around the same time I had to take the desition to invest, I got my htc Vive from the mail. The first thing I did was ask the architect for the sketchup model of the project and I used a tool called irisVR to lunch it in my brand new goggles; and there I was, standing in the middle of this plaza looking up to 4 buildings which are not supposed to be seen like this until next year. Trust me I had seen the prettiest renders and all the blueprints, checked measures etc but nothing compared to this, I decided to go for the investment in that moment because now I had no doubt the plaza was big enough and the project had all the elements that would make it successful.
But that's not all, the time came when I had to choose an apartment that I'll keep and I looked at all the floor plans but that wasn't enough now that I could "cheat", I walked through the buildings, I looked at the views, I chacked where the sun raised (irisVR lets you change time of day with Geo location), where it set, from what time to what time it would hit windows, how far would my building neighbours wold be, and the next day I called the office to schedule a meeting to let them know my desition.
Sorry if I went for too long but there you have it, even if architects them selves don't want to use VR I think investors and final clients will, keep doing what you're doing and stay away from 360 panoramic views, that's not where it's at in my opinion, leve that to marketing companies. Google VR for arch, you'll find some resources
The only revolutionary implementation of AR I can see in the industry is for Construction Professionals. Assuming a well-done BIM Model is available for construction, I imagine a future where contractors would be able to overlay digital models over real world construction as they build (with some sort of google-glass type of tech). Imagine turning layers of the building off and on superimposed over actual construction using AR.
Norm Li's (leading architectural firm in Canada) discusses his views on VR and how it's changing the industry. Some useful information in here forsure!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OXoL6T_oXA&t=0s
@_jtlr Hav you heard of ArchiCAD's BIMx?
As someone who's both an Architect and some one who runs my own visualization studio I'll tell you this. Know your audience. Some people can't understand renderings and need something more immersive. Others are confused by all the fancy stuff and better understand simple plans and elevations. Then there's some that no matter how realistic or immersive the visuals are, they still don't fully understand.
Now once you get into marketing it's another story. The whole point is to sell, so the flashier more innovative the content, the better.