I've been browsing through some of the discussions about outsourcing. People's experiences that I can gather have been mostly negative. I do share their frustrations. I know, I've been there. I've been on the receiving end of a poorly produced working drawings. To make a long story short, I have had to redo it. I thought to myself that if there ever was an outsource firm, it would have to be something that need very little supervision and can function on it's own. Much like your usual consultants, ie. structural engineer, electrical engineer, etc. Only this one would have to be well versed in architecture.
When the opportunity came, I started my company in 2005. My goal was to dispel the negative connotation of an "outsource firm". We set out to do what I described above on what an outsource firm should be.
While I can't justify the actions of other firms, there are still a few of us who strive to give great service to our clients. Unfortunately, the actions of most outsource firms have made the word "outsource" an inconceivable venture to pursue, much less, to think even about using.
I felt compelled to write this post to let anyone know that if they've ever considered or considering using an outsource firm that there are still few of us around that can do the job. I must say, however, that we have clients, repeat clients I might add, that have been using our services for the past 11 years. We make architects believe in what we can do one project at a time.
accesskb
Jun 29, 16 7:46 am
what is your company name? if you're as good as you say you are, I'm sure some could use your help.
Wilma Buttfit
Jun 29, 16 9:17 am
I'm the stray cat in this neighborhood.
awaiting_deletion
Jun 29, 16 12:08 pm
Stray Cat Outsourcing LLC
Everyday Intern
Jun 29, 16 12:40 pm
Isn't this essentially a "design architect" "architect of record" relationship? Maybe I'm misunderstanding but if you are functioning on your own, producing the drawings with little oversight or supervision, acting more like a consultant (who is licensed to provide their services) ... aren't you essentially the architect of record? Are you stamping your own drawings or are your clients taking your work that they've barely supervised and stamping them?
I'm not saying this is a bad thing, BTW. In fact, I could see the future of the profession doing this more and more. I think the "big D" design firms will be more and more specialized in providing designs that then get passed on to local architecture firms serving as the architect of record that do the CDs and CA on the project. I think the firms that try to specialize in design end up being inefficient when it comes to producing CDs and CA. I've also seen plenty of firms that have CDs and CA figured out really well for their area and are very efficient ... but couldn't design their way out of a paper bag.
x-jla
Jun 29, 16 1:52 pm
Is it legal for an unlicensed designer of out of state architect to work through DD and then hire an AOR for CDs and CA?...the practice act would suggest that it's not, but from what I've seen and heard it happens quite a lot...on both small and really really large projects...
agd2005
Jun 29, 16 4:02 pm
@Accesskb: I can be contacted via this forum. It's best to contact me this way. As with any public forums, there are trolls here as well and I just don't want to deal with them. Serious inquiries only please.
@Everyday Intern: An Architect On Record (AOC) is the person putting his/her stamp and signature on the construction documents. That person's name will be in the public record, hence the term. When I say minimum supervision, it does not mean the AOC is not involved in the process. Minimum supervision, in the sense that they do not have to spoon feed us like sketching details, telling us where to put dimension lines, etc. Some of these so called outsource firm would literally need this much hand-holding. The AOC are typically more involved in the project management area. They relay the information discussed with the owner. We, then implement them in the documents. We also encourage them, if they haven't already doing it, to do a thorough QA/QC periodically. Most firms that we work for already have this in place. One of my client described it best. He calls us his Production Architect. You are right about this symbiotic existence. In fact, it happens more often than you think. I look at the architectural profession as being similar to the film industry. There are regular actors and there are superstars. Architects are the same. A lot of the big name architects only take the project from schematic design through early design development, then they pass them on to the AOC. In the previous firm that I worked at, we've done several projects this way. There are also developers and owners who employ their own designers. Likewise, they generate the design intent and pass it on to the AOC to take it through construction documents and even through construction. It's perfectly legal. Our situation if similar. An AOC hires us to generate the CDs for them.
@jla-x: Please check my response above with regards to the practice of hiring consultants and the rule of AOC on a given project. I need to set one thing straight, however. It's the AOC that hires companies like ours. Not the other way around.
Ramon Luc
Nov 18, 16 1:33 am
Hi fellas,
I read the thread of conversation here. And I can understand the apprehensions of the Principals when they consider outsourcing CD, or DD to another party. I am certain there are many back offices with improper training, and lacking the required skills to do the job as per the standards of the Principals.
It is important to pick and choose your guy wisely. For instance, my friend who works with ZGF Architects ( top 50 in US ) told me about this company called RSMS Architects who are based in New Delhi and how they provide flawless architecture documentation to North American Architects. They have been doing this for quite some time now. Almost more than a decade. I was skeptical at first about the quality but when I saw the quality myself they were impeccable!
Anyway I hope everyone out there who is looking for such firms which provide CD and DD are able to find one to their satisfaction. Meanwhile I would recommend RSMS Architects.
I've been browsing through some of the discussions about outsourcing. People's experiences that I can gather have been mostly negative. I do share their frustrations. I know, I've been there. I've been on the receiving end of a poorly produced working drawings. To make a long story short, I have had to redo it. I thought to myself that if there ever was an outsource firm, it would have to be something that need very little supervision and can function on it's own. Much like your usual consultants, ie. structural engineer, electrical engineer, etc. Only this one would have to be well versed in architecture.
When the opportunity came, I started my company in 2005. My goal was to dispel the negative connotation of an "outsource firm". We set out to do what I described above on what an outsource firm should be.
While I can't justify the actions of other firms, there are still a few of us who strive to give great service to our clients. Unfortunately, the actions of most outsource firms have made the word "outsource" an inconceivable venture to pursue, much less, to think even about using.
I felt compelled to write this post to let anyone know that if they've ever considered or considering using an outsource firm that there are still few of us around that can do the job. I must say, however, that we have clients, repeat clients I might add, that have been using our services for the past 11 years. We make architects believe in what we can do one project at a time.
what is your company name? if you're as good as you say you are, I'm sure some could use your help.
I'm the stray cat in this neighborhood.
Stray Cat Outsourcing LLC
Isn't this essentially a "design architect" "architect of record" relationship? Maybe I'm misunderstanding but if you are functioning on your own, producing the drawings with little oversight or supervision, acting more like a consultant (who is licensed to provide their services) ... aren't you essentially the architect of record? Are you stamping your own drawings or are your clients taking your work that they've barely supervised and stamping them?
I'm not saying this is a bad thing, BTW. In fact, I could see the future of the profession doing this more and more. I think the "big D" design firms will be more and more specialized in providing designs that then get passed on to local architecture firms serving as the architect of record that do the CDs and CA on the project. I think the firms that try to specialize in design end up being inefficient when it comes to producing CDs and CA. I've also seen plenty of firms that have CDs and CA figured out really well for their area and are very efficient ... but couldn't design their way out of a paper bag.
Is it legal for an unlicensed designer of out of state architect to work through DD and then hire an AOR for CDs and CA?...the practice act would suggest that it's not, but from what I've seen and heard it happens quite a lot...on both small and really really large projects...
@Accesskb: I can be contacted via this forum. It's best to contact me this way. As with any public forums, there are trolls here as well and I just don't want to deal with them. Serious inquiries only please.
@Everyday Intern: An Architect On Record (AOC) is the person putting his/her stamp and signature on the construction documents. That person's name will be in the public record, hence the term. When I say minimum supervision, it does not mean the AOC is not involved in the process. Minimum supervision, in the sense that they do not have to spoon feed us like sketching details, telling us where to put dimension lines, etc. Some of these so called outsource firm would literally need this much hand-holding. The AOC are typically more involved in the project management area. They relay the information discussed with the owner. We, then implement them in the documents. We also encourage them, if they haven't already doing it, to do a thorough QA/QC periodically. Most firms that we work for already have this in place. One of my client described it best. He calls us his Production Architect. You are right about this symbiotic existence. In fact, it happens more often than you think. I look at the architectural profession as being similar to the film industry. There are regular actors and there are superstars. Architects are the same. A lot of the big name architects only take the project from schematic design through early design development, then they pass them on to the AOC. In the previous firm that I worked at, we've done several projects this way. There are also developers and owners who employ their own designers. Likewise, they generate the design intent and pass it on to the AOC to take it through construction documents and even through construction. It's perfectly legal. Our situation if similar. An AOC hires us to generate the CDs for them.
@jla-x: Please check my response above with regards to the practice of hiring consultants and the rule of AOC on a given project. I need to set one thing straight, however. It's the AOC that hires companies like ours. Not the other way around.
Hi fellas,
I read the thread of conversation here. And I can understand the apprehensions of the Principals when they consider outsourcing CD, or DD to another party. I am certain there are many back offices with improper training, and lacking the required skills to do the job as per the standards of the Principals.
It is important to pick and choose your guy wisely. For instance, my friend who works with ZGF Architects ( top 50 in US ) told me about this company called RSMS Architects who are based in New Delhi and how they provide flawless architecture documentation to North American Architects. They have been doing this for quite some time now. Almost more than a decade. I was skeptical at first about the quality but when I saw the quality myself they were impeccable!
Anyway I hope everyone out there who is looking for such firms which provide CD and DD are able to find one to their satisfaction. Meanwhile I would recommend RSMS Architects.