Soo I applied to a few architecture undergraduate programs this year including UofT's, Waterloo, and Carleton but unfortunately only got into UofT. Barely missed Waterloo after passing the interview and precis. I've been hearing alot of negative things about UofT's undergrad program and even their masters. Is their program really that bad? I know my options are limited for a M.Arch program with this B.A in Architectural Studies degree but is it really the end of the world?
P.S What would be a good way to become more prepared for a masters program while doing this B.A in A.S degree at UofT so I'm not lost when in an internship or in a masters program? I'm still very intent on pursuing architecture.
Thanks!
DeTwan
Jun 18, 16 10:25 am
Why are you so intent on pursuing architecture?
Have you done your research on the profession?
Sparsh Gandhi
Jun 18, 16 12:55 pm
There are a lot of reasons for why I want to pursue it, one of the biggest being that its my passion. I was just looking for feedback from people who have been through the same process though maybe some tips or inside knowledge.
anonitect
Jun 18, 16 1:54 pm
If you're sure that you'll want to go to grad school for architecture, consider not majoring in it as an undergrad. A dual degree in engineering and art would set you up nicely for getting into grad programs, and you'll learn more. Don't be afraid of a gap year if you need to reapply.
Also, try to get internships related to the field or work construction over the summers.
Sparsh Gandhi
Jun 18, 16 1:55 pm
I understand that architecture is super difficult to get into because of the large number of architects being stuck doing CAD or rendering for other people with no real improvement but the profession has its pros with the working with clients and actually contributing. What could I do despite this degree at UofT to avoid being stuck being a "CAD monkey" ?
and anonitect I have to do at least one major in Architecture for the degree I was accepted with but I was thinking of majoring in environmental science or minoring in physics or visual studies. Would those be of value in terms of learning things relevant for grad school?
Non Sequitur
Jun 18, 16 2:14 pm
UofT undergrad is a general arts degree, not an architecture programme. Yes, it is as bad as you've heard.
DeTwan
Jun 18, 16 2:55 pm
Aren't most, if not all architecture programs a glorified art program. It's where they inflate your ego while extracting money from you at the same time. It's basically like paying to be a starchitect!
Also Teddy, the only jobs that are available in architecture are "cad monkey" jobs. That's how real world architecture happens. Someone with money comes to your boss. They layout the vision for the client, which in the client's eyes is usually "Just make the cheapest pos building you can that maxs out the space available so that I can make money off it...durrr". Then your boss comes back to you with some chicken scratch floor plans of a pos building and dumps it in your lap to work out all the kinks.
Im sure your expecting to get licensed and start your own firm sooner than later. All I can say is you'll never have enough capital to invest if you plan on making your money working in architecture. It is more than easy to waste tons of money trying to get something off the ground.
Like many have said here, architecture is a great hobby if you're a trust fund baby with too much money, but a miserable career field for the average joe. All I can say is plan on being a cad monkey if you go into architecture....for a long time.....
DeTwan
Jun 18, 16 3:03 pm
Or you could work for free as a model builder in an architecture firm to get your foot in the door....
Okay, that was sarcasm. Do any architecture firms even make physical models anymore? I cant say that I've ever heard or seen of an architecture company doing physical modeling, and if they do it is usually out sourced to Asia.
Non Sequitur
Jun 18, 16 4:07 pm
^DeTwan, what you describe as bottom of the barrel work environment is very common for UofT undergrads since the school does fuck-all to prepare them for professional employment. Their degree only exists to maintain a steady influx of applicants for their own M.Arch (since they are generally unqualified for any other M.arch) and if it was not for their undergrads receiving a garanteed M.arch acceptance simply by not dropping out, the graduate program would be a shell of what is today (which, as a casual search in these forums would indicate, is not that good to begin with)
... but this is not very likely for students of the real architecture schools in Canada. It's a little different up here than what you're all butt-hurt about. My advice to the OP is take the year off, work in a related field if possible (construction helps alot) and reapply to Waterloo abd Carleton (add RyU & McGill too) with a stronger portfolio.
Sparsh Gandhi
Jun 18, 16 4:23 pm
I see what you are saying but could that be avoided by applying to programs such as University of Calgary's, University of Manitoba's and Dalhousie's after two years of this program? They accept students after their second year of study in any subject into their respective pre-proffesional programs (Bachelor of Environmental design I believe) for the remaining two years. I think you can apply to more M.Arch programs afterwards and Dalhousie accepts its BEDS students directly without application.
Also would just applying to better M.Arch programs like UBC and others not requiring a pre-professional degree after completing the UofT undergrad be another solution?
Non Sequitur
Jun 18, 16 4:29 pm
Yes, to the first questions, a very difficult maybe to the second.
Remember that UofT undergrad is infamous for poorly preparing it's graduates for both employment and other graduate programes (other than its own).
Sparsh Gandhi
Jun 18, 16 4:46 pm
Hmm I have a lot of things to think about now XD. Thanks for your input!
Do you have any suggestions for things to do alongside the UofT degree within those two years to be a step ahead of other applicants to the other environmental design programs and to just be better set for a masters in the future?
I have been attempting to learn some of the software for design, and I'm planning to enter this architecture competition for students.
Non Sequitur
Jun 18, 16 7:56 pm
Don't bother learning software yet. Software is very easy to pick up.
Want to k ow what to do to move on from a bottom of the barrel program into something with future value? Become a fucking sorcerer when it comes to building details and advance what little UofT teaches on the side. You'll need to go beyond the classes an chase what others, such as first year Waterloo, Ru, McGill students get from day on of school.
I'd actually spend the next little while working on a new portfolio for next year's cycle for the real arch schools even if taking a semester at UofT. At worst you'll loose a year but perhaps not as you could transfer electives.
Something to think about. T'is all. Not all Canadian arch schools are created equal.
DeTwan
Jun 18, 16 11:22 pm
I swear you must be some recruiter for canadian colleges NS...Im sure that canadian architecture colleges have the edge on US schools but they are all glorified art schools. Hopefully you get into one that at least teaches you to problem solve, and once you realize what a joke the architecture industry is, you can architecture yourself out of the slavery culture.
Sound like you might need an ego adjustment. Lookin like a peacock on archinect, always espousing how you gotta have passion. If love making to a computer all day is a passion, count me out!
Non Sequitur
Jun 19, 16 3:41 am
Nope and DeTwan, just because you had a shit time when attempting to make a living in this profession does not mean it's the same for everyone, everywhere. Also, don't forget to eat your healthy 3 daily bag of dicks.
Jun 19, 16 3:56 am
DeTwan,
Are you an architect?
Seriously, think about it on a much larger world view than just in the U.S. As you know, I have been looking at this stupid question myself for a long time.
Regarding your other comments which I surely with haste skim through, I have to agree with N.S. in hat you have to have passion. You have to have it for any career to pursue a career. It is what keeps you in a career instead of bailing the moment some shit crops up.
There is certainly more to it than that but anyone who doesn't have a passion for the career is going to be totally miserable as fuck even worse than me. I somehow have a passion for this profession despite the colossal shit storm.
What is your particular issue? What happen to you?
DeTwan
Jun 19, 16 9:39 am
Balkins, I am THE ARCHITECT!
Yep, go watch the Matrix again, and think about it on a much larger universal view than just yourself.
I am glad that you are surely with haste skim through my post, for I have never even thought to even glance at your long winded diatribes that you post on the daily.
Perhaps you could go into detail about how to eat a healthy bag of dicks without choking on them, I mean, do you start with the heads, or should I try to digest the sacks and balls first? Eating a bag of dicks can get trickier than most. Give us your thoughts Balkins...
When are you going to be an architect Rick? You really must have passion for this field of gloriness since youve literally lived out your passion of being an architect on archinect for the past decade or more.
What is your particular issue? What happened to you?
As for NS, it tickles me every time you tell me to eat a bag of dicks. Im sure the assistant dean at your lovely Canadian college would laugh with bellows if he saw what you posted here, and youre not even on your lunch break.
Why do you get so mad (u mad?) when I talk about the slave mentality that is ubiquitous in the architecture field? Are you one of those house slaves that gets his panties all knotted up from hearing the field slaves talk the truth?
Non Sequitur
Jun 19, 16 10:10 am
^because it's not ubiquitous. And again, I don't work or represent any university, but given the heavy USA percentage of people here, very few have any worthwhile opinion on the Canadian ones. This includes yours.
DeTwan
Jun 19, 16 10:20 am
Alright, you're right! It's just me... every young and dumb kid that wants to be a magnanimous architect will have their day with reality eventually.
Now I am just waiting on Balkin's 12,000 word essay on how to "properly eat a healthy bag of dicks".
What's the best college for architecture in Canada atm NS?
awaiting_deletion
Jun 19, 16 10:26 am
DeTwan, you do represent those who failed in this profession based on your rants. oddly enough thouh you go out of your way on an architecruee site to say how bad YOU had it.....maybe you and Balkins can get together and discuss why you both have failed to become architects and make a descent living at it.....the kid is just asking for advise on schools, not why you failed miserably at becoming a successful architect.
DeTwan
Jun 19, 16 10:27 am
Oh no, another house slave chiming in? I see the shackes...
Non Sequitur
Jun 19, 16 10:29 am
Best undergrad university for architecture is Waterloo, McGill, Ryerson. These schools reinforce basic design skills with hard building science so that the majority of the students can handle the working world without "my architecture is the next cure for cancer" attitude... Which you rightly point out, is prevalent in new graduates.
Keep in mind that Canadian tuition is a fraction of what most pay in the US and unpaid internships have never been a thing. Lots of dreamers, but much less from the grads of the schools I lost above aka, they don't set them up for disappointment.
DeTwan
Jun 19, 16 10:42 am
Well it sounds like those schools actually have real professors that actually partake in "real world" architecture. Most of the US schools are full of tenure old foogs that practiced in the 60s and maybe 70s, and then a bunch of alum that graduated from that actual college, couldnt find a job, so they get hired as assistant teachers and the like. There is a huge disconnect in the US schools and the 'real world' b/c of this. I have no doubt that UofT is run under this same kind of guise.
If Trump get elected I'm moving to your house NS! You all better start building that wall, and perhaps try to get the american public to pay for it. You got a spare bdrm right? Ill sleep in the babies room if need be....
Jun 19, 16 10:44 am
When are you going to be an architect Rick?
That's the irony. Ha ha ha ha. You seem to don't get it.
DeTwan
Jun 19, 16 10:47 am
So you are an architect? Oh I get it...
Non Sequitur
Jun 19, 16 10:50 am
Hey, leave my newborn's room out of your airb&b plans!
DeTwan
Jun 19, 16 10:53 am
Youre right, I may have taken it a little too far with that comment, but I am really interested in what Balkins has to say about being an architect.
My guess is his mommy is flying the applesauce plane around his head, and the ritalin will be hitting the blood-brain membrane any minute.
I need that essay Balkins....
Jun 19, 16 10:57 am
DeTwan, you do represent those who failed in this profession based on your rants. oddly enough thouh you go out of your way on an architecruee site to say how bad YOU had it.....maybe you and Balkins can get together and discuss why you both have failed to become architects and make a descent living at it.....the kid is just asking for advise on schools, not why you failed miserably at becoming a successful architect.
Olaf,
Really, all I need to do is become a successful architect.
Josh Mings
Jun 19, 16 11:00 am
^ I need a moment after that one.
awaiting_deletion
Jun 19, 16 12:28 pm
rick you are not successful at anything. really......detwan at least had a job in the field once....
Sparsh Gandhi
Jun 19, 16 1:13 pm
Out of curiosity if you don't mind, where did all of you go to school? How was your experience?
Non Sequitur
Jun 19, 16 1:22 pm
^Carleton for undergrad (older model, not the 3 branch version they have today) and Waterloo for Masters. I am one of the first non-waterloo undergrad (second actually, by one-day) to be accepted/finish their graduate program. Going on almost 10 years now.
Sparsh Gandhi
Jun 19, 16 1:29 pm
I have heard Carleton's new 3 branch one with Design, Urbanism, etc, is considered worse than their older model, How much truth is there to that?
Non Sequitur
Jun 19, 16 1:42 pm
All true, unfortunately. A big part of that's school's focus in the last 5+ years has been in their new PhD programe and their graduate research work through CIMS. The undergrad has fallen very far from where it once was. There was a time where it was known as a feeder school to the better M.arch due to the high level of conceptual design in it's undergrad studios.
Bench
Jun 19, 16 3:50 pm
I dissent from NS.
I started at Waterloo's urban design program (while tangentially participating in whatever I could in the arch school as an 'outsider'), transferred and graduated from Dalhousie architecture, and did my M.Arch at Carleton. Its disingenuous to compare the 3 streams at Carleton, as (unlike UT), they are very up front in the consequences of choice in those three. The vast majority of students remain in the Design stream, which is a standard undergrad architecture program, and qualifies for 2-year masters at all other schools. The few who choose the other two are well aware that they will have extra work to do down the line, but the point is that they may not pursue that route.
I thought the student work coming out of the undergraduate program was very good - better than Dal (on average), and certainly better than Ryerson - though not quite up to par to Waterloo. It is a well-rounded education model focusing on using a variety of contemporary tools and methods to be fully entwined with design work. Most, if not all, students work summers (mainly in Toronto and Ottawa) and are highered relatively quickly from graduation (again in those cities mostly) - at least the ones that are serious about pursuing the career.
Non Sequitur
Jun 19, 16 4:38 pm
Bench, you make some fine points.
Sparsh Gandhi
Jun 19, 16 5:26 pm
I wasn't aware that the other two streams at Carleton don't fall into the pre-professional category. I'll remember this when re applying. Would you guys be up to giving feedback on the portfolio I presented in the Waterloo interview so I can improve it for the second time around?
bowling_ball
Jun 20, 16 9:47 am
Something that should be clarified (others please chime in if I'm wrong)....
There's really no such thing as an undergrad architecture degree in Canada. There are (architecture-related) degrees that lead directly into M.Arch streams, and those that don't. An M.Arch is required for licensure unless you go through the RAIC program.
The reason this is important is that you'll often hear advice like "do a different undergrad degree first." It's not a terrible idea, but you'll still have to do an "environmental design" (ie architecture-related) degree in order to get into an M.Arch.
gual
Jun 20, 16 9:53 am
Teddy,
The UofT undergrad is mostly a standard arts degree, though I believe they've added some elements of 'visual communication' recently (i.e. fine arts-ish stuff). I've seen some portfolios from people in the current version of the undergrad - they aren't good enough for us to hire them, but with a little tweaking I think a lot of them would get into Dal no problem. If you're able to commit to building a portfolio then you shouldn't have too hard of a time getting into Dal or the Calgary M.Arch. I came from a background that had nothing to do with architecture whatsoever and got into the UofT M.Arch, Dal's BEDS, Calgary's M.Arch, and Manitoba's program.
I think the safe-but-boring way to build such a portfolio would be this: do a good job with the representation stuff at UofT, AND take some drawing and/or painting and/or sculpture instruction outside of school, AND come up with some extra unique work that makes you stand out (you always need this and you might already have some work around that fits the bill -- some people include sewing, etc). You need weird stuff and a compelling story to get into Manitoba, and the bar is pretty high for UofT, but the other schools are easy.
I've been on an admissions committee and personally I'm more interested in an applicant with who majored in something completely different like comp sci while building up an interesting portfolio. If I were you I'd major in something useful and/or interesting, preferably while taking some fine art courses. If you're anything like me it'll be nice to be doing a variety of things, and you'll have a good backup if you decide you hate architecture and/or love money. When I entered the architecture job market I was glad I could turn down bad offers because I had a valuable skillset I could fall back on as a freelancer whenever I wanted.
Non Sequitur
Jun 20, 16 11:34 am
teddy, post a link to a portfolio and plenty will comment.
Gual, thanks for adding the other schools. I never hear about Manitoba or Calgary (and very little of DAl) here in Ontario.
Bench
Jun 20, 16 5:20 pm
Dal has a small but dedicated group of niche firms that seem to really like hiring their alumni back - less so in Ottawa, but certainly in Toronto. The BML influence is tantamount, but that is a very appealing to draw to some firms who follow a similar mandate in their practice - Dal grads fit in extremely well in that environment. Its not for everyone, but when it clicks it absolutely clicks. Manitoba seems to have fallen off the face of the earth after the Mark West / Ralph Stern debacle. Calgary.....?
NS, I'm surprised you front the RU angle so much. I've worked with a number of alumni from that program, ranging from recent grads to senior staff. The overwhelming common thread seems to be that while they certainly come out as very employable due to a rigorous, applicable study of the field, they have difficulty breaking away from any kind of technical roll. During my year out between undergrad and grad, a group of us in my office all applied to various schools - I got into UW, Carleton, Dal, Syracuse and a couple others in the states, while they couldn't break into anything (even back to RU's new M.Arch). It was a very frustrating situation for them, as they were very much placed in rolls of rendering or technical work, with seemingly no chance of moving forward. I've heard the same from others as well.
Non Sequitur
Jun 20, 16 5:32 pm
Bench, I don't back RyU in tha same way as I back Loo or McGill but in this context and compared to UofT, it's much better.
I recently uploaded these. This was the portfolio I took to the interview last time. I think the two that created the most discussion were the meaty looking cow painting and the woman and man standing in front of the painting. Any comments are appreciated!
and gual I was thinking of doing something like that while still in the UofT program but I thought the nature of the program would hinder my M.Arch opportunities. Would visual studies as a major along with architecture help with the portfolio building? Also I thought Dal's program would be harder to get into considering its a co-op program.
good details
Jun 20, 16 9:26 pm
bowling_ball "The reason this is important is that you'll often hear advice like "do a different undergrad degree first." It's not a terrible idea, but you'll still have to do an "environmental design" (ie architecture-related) degree in order to get into an M.Arch. "
Completely incorrect. You can get into March at UofC, UofT, UBC, and Carleton with any bachelor's degree.
Jun 21, 16 1:12 am
.
Jun 21, 16 1:17 am
So you are an architect? Oh I get it...
What did you get?
DeTwan
Jun 21, 16 3:18 am
...
bowling_ball
Jun 21, 16 3:33 am
zenza:
Completely incorrect. You can get into March at UofC, UofT, UBC, and Carleton with any bachelor's degree.
Thanks for correcting me. Maybe things have been changing recently
I can confirm the remark about UManitoba being in a rebuilding phase after the trail of destruction left by the previous Dean. The program will regain its former weird glory soon enough, but for the next couple of years it's probably best to stay away.
Non Sequitur
Jun 21, 16 11:40 am
Teddy, thanks for the portfolio examples. I took a quick look and in general, I think you can vastly improve the pieces if you concentrate more on the composition and lighting (or contrast) when painting/sketches. Playing around with depth and perspectives also makes the images appear less flat and makes it less apparent that they are reproductions of a single photograph.
I would also stress that you should not include high-school homework assignment/projects. Schools like to see initiative and independant work, not something you "had to do". I gave a fail to any applicant a Loo who explained their pieces as such. "Well the teacher told us to paint a Van Gogh, so here are some shitty sunflowers..."
Good and varied graphite sketches go a very long way too, especially if you're presenting your work in person (such as Loo). Pick a corner in your town and sketch on the spot using heavy pencils/charcoal. Add flavour and excitement to the work that shows you can build an artwork, not just paint a pink cow in a green field. The boat and shoreline pieces are those I find the strongest.
gual
Jun 21, 16 12:03 pm
Teddy - this is all just my opinion and you should take it with a grain of salt:
It really doesn't matter what you major in. Just don't have a boring portfolio. The disadvantages I see with going to UofT are:
1. If you don't make some interesting stuff on your own time, you and a bunch of your classmates will all be submitting the same portfolio with the same three assignments, some drawings of fruit, portraits, a table you made to show you can build things, pictures of buildings, and a poster you made for your student union. Some of you will get in, but you better be stunningly good at hand-rendering pomeganate kernels.
2. Being around a bunch of people who didn't get into Waterloo and basically have the same plan as you sounds like a morale-killer. You're basically getting an arts degree; if I were in your position I'd rather major in literature or anthro or something that interests me more.
At the end of the day, interesting self-motivated work will get you in. An applicant who studied physics for a couple of years, then worked construction, built a shack in his backyard, and did some action painting is more likely to catch my eye than the "knows how to draw" candidate (but that's just me).
If you absolutely NEED to do schooling that will help build your portfolio and you have NO interest in studying anything outside design I would consider an allied field like industrial design or sculpture, as they would give you a unique angle for your application.
You might want to take a look at these examples of successful applicants to UofC. Without getting into how "good" we think the work is, we can notice that one applicant has an interesting design-related background (industrial design), whereas the other isn't necessarily great at anything but has a variety of work: http://evds.ucalgary.ca/content/master-architecture-march-admissions
zenza:
I'd put an asterick next to UofT; so many of their applicants are shooting for Harvard/Yale etc, so the 'non-architecture' pool ends up containing overqualified people with substantial design training.
asiawalker
Jun 21, 16 1:55 pm
Take a gap year, take what you want in undergrad, and get your Master's in Urban Planning. Hella more fun.
Soo I applied to a few architecture undergraduate programs this year including UofT's, Waterloo, and Carleton but unfortunately only got into UofT. Barely missed Waterloo after passing the interview and precis. I've been hearing alot of negative things about UofT's undergrad program and even their masters. Is their program really that bad? I know my options are limited for a M.Arch program with this B.A in Architectural Studies degree but is it really the end of the world?
P.S What would be a good way to become more prepared for a masters program while doing this B.A in A.S degree at UofT so I'm not lost when in an internship or in a masters program? I'm still very intent on pursuing architecture.
Thanks!
Why are you so intent on pursuing architecture?
Have you done your research on the profession?
There are a lot of reasons for why I want to pursue it, one of the biggest being that its my passion. I was just looking for feedback from people who have been through the same process though maybe some tips or inside knowledge.
If you're sure that you'll want to go to grad school for architecture, consider not majoring in it as an undergrad. A dual degree in engineering and art would set you up nicely for getting into grad programs, and you'll learn more. Don't be afraid of a gap year if you need to reapply.
Also, try to get internships related to the field or work construction over the summers.
I understand that architecture is super difficult to get into because of the large number of architects being stuck doing CAD or rendering for other people with no real improvement but the profession has its pros with the working with clients and actually contributing. What could I do despite this degree at UofT to avoid being stuck being a "CAD monkey" ?
and anonitect I have to do at least one major in Architecture for the degree I was accepted with but I was thinking of majoring in environmental science or minoring in physics or visual studies. Would those be of value in terms of learning things relevant for grad school?
UofT undergrad is a general arts degree, not an architecture programme. Yes, it is as bad as you've heard.
Aren't most, if not all architecture programs a glorified art program. It's where they inflate your ego while extracting money from you at the same time. It's basically like paying to be a starchitect!
Also Teddy, the only jobs that are available in architecture are "cad monkey" jobs. That's how real world architecture happens. Someone with money comes to your boss. They layout the vision for the client, which in the client's eyes is usually "Just make the cheapest pos building you can that maxs out the space available so that I can make money off it...durrr". Then your boss comes back to you with some chicken scratch floor plans of a pos building and dumps it in your lap to work out all the kinks.
Im sure your expecting to get licensed and start your own firm sooner than later. All I can say is you'll never have enough capital to invest if you plan on making your money working in architecture. It is more than easy to waste tons of money trying to get something off the ground.
Like many have said here, architecture is a great hobby if you're a trust fund baby with too much money, but a miserable career field for the average joe. All I can say is plan on being a cad monkey if you go into architecture....for a long time.....
Or you could work for free as a model builder in an architecture firm to get your foot in the door....
Okay, that was sarcasm. Do any architecture firms even make physical models anymore? I cant say that I've ever heard or seen of an architecture company doing physical modeling, and if they do it is usually out sourced to Asia.
^DeTwan, what you describe as bottom of the barrel work environment is very common for UofT undergrads since the school does fuck-all to prepare them for professional employment. Their degree only exists to maintain a steady influx of applicants for their own M.Arch (since they are generally unqualified for any other M.arch) and if it was not for their undergrads receiving a garanteed M.arch acceptance simply by not dropping out, the graduate program would be a shell of what is today (which, as a casual search in these forums would indicate, is not that good to begin with)
... but this is not very likely for students of the real architecture schools in Canada. It's a little different up here than what you're all butt-hurt about. My advice to the OP is take the year off, work in a related field if possible (construction helps alot) and reapply to Waterloo abd Carleton (add RyU & McGill too) with a stronger portfolio.
I see what you are saying but could that be avoided by applying to programs such as University of Calgary's, University of Manitoba's and Dalhousie's after two years of this program? They accept students after their second year of study in any subject into their respective pre-proffesional programs (Bachelor of Environmental design I believe) for the remaining two years. I think you can apply to more M.Arch programs afterwards and Dalhousie accepts its BEDS students directly without application.
Also would just applying to better M.Arch programs like UBC and others not requiring a pre-professional degree after completing the UofT undergrad be another solution?
Yes, to the first questions, a very difficult maybe to the second.
Remember that UofT undergrad is infamous for poorly preparing it's graduates for both employment and other graduate programes (other than its own).
Hmm I have a lot of things to think about now XD. Thanks for your input!
Do you have any suggestions for things to do alongside the UofT degree within those two years to be a step ahead of other applicants to the other environmental design programs and to just be better set for a masters in the future?
I have been attempting to learn some of the software for design, and I'm planning to enter this architecture competition for students.
Don't bother learning software yet. Software is very easy to pick up.
Want to k ow what to do to move on from a bottom of the barrel program into something with future value? Become a fucking sorcerer when it comes to building details and advance what little UofT teaches on the side. You'll need to go beyond the classes an chase what others, such as first year Waterloo, Ru, McGill students get from day on of school.
I'd actually spend the next little while working on a new portfolio for next year's cycle for the real arch schools even if taking a semester at UofT. At worst you'll loose a year but perhaps not as you could transfer electives.
Something to think about. T'is all. Not all Canadian arch schools are created equal.
I swear you must be some recruiter for canadian colleges NS...Im sure that canadian architecture colleges have the edge on US schools but they are all glorified art schools. Hopefully you get into one that at least teaches you to problem solve, and once you realize what a joke the architecture industry is, you can architecture yourself out of the slavery culture.
Sound like you might need an ego adjustment. Lookin like a peacock on archinect, always espousing how you gotta have passion. If love making to a computer all day is a passion, count me out!
Nope and DeTwan, just because you had a shit time when attempting to make a living in this profession does not mean it's the same for everyone, everywhere. Also, don't forget to eat your healthy 3 daily bag of dicks.
DeTwan,
Are you an architect?
Seriously, think about it on a much larger world view than just in the U.S. As you know, I have been looking at this stupid question myself for a long time.
Regarding your other comments which I surely with haste skim through, I have to agree with N.S. in hat you have to have passion. You have to have it for any career to pursue a career. It is what keeps you in a career instead of bailing the moment some shit crops up.
There is certainly more to it than that but anyone who doesn't have a passion for the career is going to be totally miserable as fuck even worse than me. I somehow have a passion for this profession despite the colossal shit storm.
What is your particular issue? What happen to you?
Balkins, I am THE ARCHITECT!
Yep, go watch the Matrix again, and think about it on a much larger universal view than just yourself.
I am glad that you are surely with haste skim through my post, for I have never even thought to even glance at your long winded diatribes that you post on the daily.
Perhaps you could go into detail about how to eat a healthy bag of dicks without choking on them, I mean, do you start with the heads, or should I try to digest the sacks and balls first? Eating a bag of dicks can get trickier than most. Give us your thoughts Balkins...
When are you going to be an architect Rick? You really must have passion for this field of gloriness since youve literally lived out your passion of being an architect on archinect for the past decade or more.
What is your particular issue? What happened to you?
As for NS, it tickles me every time you tell me to eat a bag of dicks. Im sure the assistant dean at your lovely Canadian college would laugh with bellows if he saw what you posted here, and youre not even on your lunch break.
Why do you get so mad (u mad?) when I talk about the slave mentality that is ubiquitous in the architecture field? Are you one of those house slaves that gets his panties all knotted up from hearing the field slaves talk the truth?
^because it's not ubiquitous. And again, I don't work or represent any university, but given the heavy USA percentage of people here, very few have any worthwhile opinion on the Canadian ones. This includes yours.
Alright, you're right! It's just me... every young and dumb kid that wants to be a magnanimous architect will have their day with reality eventually.
Now I am just waiting on Balkin's 12,000 word essay on how to "properly eat a healthy bag of dicks".
What's the best college for architecture in Canada atm NS?
DeTwan, you do represent those who failed in this profession based on your rants. oddly enough thouh you go out of your way on an architecruee site to say how bad YOU had it.....maybe you and Balkins can get together and discuss why you both have failed to become architects and make a descent living at it.....the kid is just asking for advise on schools, not why you failed miserably at becoming a successful architect.
Oh no, another house slave chiming in? I see the shackes...
Best undergrad university for architecture is Waterloo, McGill, Ryerson. These schools reinforce basic design skills with hard building science so that the majority of the students can handle the working world without "my architecture is the next cure for cancer" attitude... Which you rightly point out, is prevalent in new graduates.
Keep in mind that Canadian tuition is a fraction of what most pay in the US and unpaid internships have never been a thing. Lots of dreamers, but much less from the grads of the schools I lost above aka, they don't set them up for disappointment.
Well it sounds like those schools actually have real professors that actually partake in "real world" architecture. Most of the US schools are full of tenure old foogs that practiced in the 60s and maybe 70s, and then a bunch of alum that graduated from that actual college, couldnt find a job, so they get hired as assistant teachers and the like. There is a huge disconnect in the US schools and the 'real world' b/c of this. I have no doubt that UofT is run under this same kind of guise.
If Trump get elected I'm moving to your house NS! You all better start building that wall, and perhaps try to get the american public to pay for it. You got a spare bdrm right? Ill sleep in the babies room if need be....
When are you going to be an architect Rick?
That's the irony. Ha ha ha ha. You seem to don't get it.
So you are an architect? Oh I get it...
Hey, leave my newborn's room out of your airb&b plans!
Youre right, I may have taken it a little too far with that comment, but I am really interested in what Balkins has to say about being an architect.
My guess is his mommy is flying the applesauce plane around his head, and the ritalin will be hitting the blood-brain membrane any minute.
I need that essay Balkins....
DeTwan, you do represent those who failed in this profession based on your rants. oddly enough thouh you go out of your way on an architecruee site to say how bad YOU had it.....maybe you and Balkins can get together and discuss why you both have failed to become architects and make a descent living at it.....the kid is just asking for advise on schools, not why you failed miserably at becoming a successful architect.
Olaf,
Really, all I need to do is become a successful architect.
^ I need a moment after that one.
rick you are not successful at anything. really......detwan at least had a job in the field once....
Out of curiosity if you don't mind, where did all of you go to school? How was your experience?
^Carleton for undergrad (older model, not the 3 branch version they have today) and Waterloo for Masters. I am one of the first non-waterloo undergrad (second actually, by one-day) to be accepted/finish their graduate program. Going on almost 10 years now.
I have heard Carleton's new 3 branch one with Design, Urbanism, etc, is considered worse than their older model, How much truth is there to that?
All true, unfortunately. A big part of that's school's focus in the last 5+ years has been in their new PhD programe and their graduate research work through CIMS. The undergrad has fallen very far from where it once was. There was a time where it was known as a feeder school to the better M.arch due to the high level of conceptual design in it's undergrad studios.
I dissent from NS.
I started at Waterloo's urban design program (while tangentially participating in whatever I could in the arch school as an 'outsider'), transferred and graduated from Dalhousie architecture, and did my M.Arch at Carleton. Its disingenuous to compare the 3 streams at Carleton, as (unlike UT), they are very up front in the consequences of choice in those three. The vast majority of students remain in the Design stream, which is a standard undergrad architecture program, and qualifies for 2-year masters at all other schools. The few who choose the other two are well aware that they will have extra work to do down the line, but the point is that they may not pursue that route.
I thought the student work coming out of the undergraduate program was very good - better than Dal (on average), and certainly better than Ryerson - though not quite up to par to Waterloo. It is a well-rounded education model focusing on using a variety of contemporary tools and methods to be fully entwined with design work. Most, if not all, students work summers (mainly in Toronto and Ottawa) and are highered relatively quickly from graduation (again in those cities mostly) - at least the ones that are serious about pursuing the career.
Bench, you make some fine points.
I wasn't aware that the other two streams at Carleton don't fall into the pre-professional category. I'll remember this when re applying. Would you guys be up to giving feedback on the portfolio I presented in the Waterloo interview so I can improve it for the second time around?
Something that should be clarified (others please chime in if I'm wrong)....
There's really no such thing as an undergrad architecture degree in Canada. There are (architecture-related) degrees that lead directly into M.Arch streams, and those that don't. An M.Arch is required for licensure unless you go through the RAIC program.
The reason this is important is that you'll often hear advice like "do a different undergrad degree first." It's not a terrible idea, but you'll still have to do an "environmental design" (ie architecture-related) degree in order to get into an M.Arch.
Teddy,
The UofT undergrad is mostly a standard arts degree, though I believe they've added some elements of 'visual communication' recently (i.e. fine arts-ish stuff). I've seen some portfolios from people in the current version of the undergrad - they aren't good enough for us to hire them, but with a little tweaking I think a lot of them would get into Dal no problem. If you're able to commit to building a portfolio then you shouldn't have too hard of a time getting into Dal or the Calgary M.Arch. I came from a background that had nothing to do with architecture whatsoever and got into the UofT M.Arch, Dal's BEDS, Calgary's M.Arch, and Manitoba's program.
I think the safe-but-boring way to build such a portfolio would be this: do a good job with the representation stuff at UofT, AND take some drawing and/or painting and/or sculpture instruction outside of school, AND come up with some extra unique work that makes you stand out (you always need this and you might already have some work around that fits the bill -- some people include sewing, etc). You need weird stuff and a compelling story to get into Manitoba, and the bar is pretty high for UofT, but the other schools are easy.
I've been on an admissions committee and personally I'm more interested in an applicant with who majored in something completely different like comp sci while building up an interesting portfolio. If I were you I'd major in something useful and/or interesting, preferably while taking some fine art courses. If you're anything like me it'll be nice to be doing a variety of things, and you'll have a good backup if you decide you hate architecture and/or love money. When I entered the architecture job market I was glad I could turn down bad offers because I had a valuable skillset I could fall back on as a freelancer whenever I wanted.
teddy, post a link to a portfolio and plenty will comment.
Gual, thanks for adding the other schools. I never hear about Manitoba or Calgary (and very little of DAl) here in Ontario.
Dal has a small but dedicated group of niche firms that seem to really like hiring their alumni back - less so in Ottawa, but certainly in Toronto. The BML influence is tantamount, but that is a very appealing to draw to some firms who follow a similar mandate in their practice - Dal grads fit in extremely well in that environment. Its not for everyone, but when it clicks it absolutely clicks. Manitoba seems to have fallen off the face of the earth after the Mark West / Ralph Stern debacle. Calgary.....?
NS, I'm surprised you front the RU angle so much. I've worked with a number of alumni from that program, ranging from recent grads to senior staff. The overwhelming common thread seems to be that while they certainly come out as very employable due to a rigorous, applicable study of the field, they have difficulty breaking away from any kind of technical roll. During my year out between undergrad and grad, a group of us in my office all applied to various schools - I got into UW, Carleton, Dal, Syracuse and a couple others in the states, while they couldn't break into anything (even back to RU's new M.Arch). It was a very frustrating situation for them, as they were very much placed in rolls of rendering or technical work, with seemingly no chance of moving forward. I've heard the same from others as well.
Bench, I don't back RyU in tha same way as I back Loo or McGill but in this context and compared to UofT, it's much better.
I chuckled a bit at you BML comment.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/99300439@N03/
I recently uploaded these. This was the portfolio I took to the interview last time. I think the two that created the most discussion were the meaty looking cow painting and the woman and man standing in front of the painting. Any comments are appreciated!
and gual I was thinking of doing something like that while still in the UofT program but I thought the nature of the program would hinder my M.Arch opportunities. Would visual studies as a major along with architecture help with the portfolio building? Also I thought Dal's program would be harder to get into considering its a co-op program.
bowling_ball "The reason this is important is that you'll often hear advice like "do a different undergrad degree first." It's not a terrible idea, but you'll still have to do an "environmental design" (ie architecture-related) degree in order to get into an M.Arch. "
Completely incorrect. You can get into March at UofC, UofT, UBC, and Carleton with any bachelor's degree.
.
So you are an architect? Oh I get it...
What did you get?
zenza: Completely incorrect. You can get into March at UofC, UofT, UBC, and Carleton with any bachelor's degree.
Thanks for correcting me. Maybe things have been changing recently
I can confirm the remark about UManitoba being in a rebuilding phase after the trail of destruction left by the previous Dean. The program will regain its former weird glory soon enough, but for the next couple of years it's probably best to stay away.
Teddy, thanks for the portfolio examples. I took a quick look and in general, I think you can vastly improve the pieces if you concentrate more on the composition and lighting (or contrast) when painting/sketches. Playing around with depth and perspectives also makes the images appear less flat and makes it less apparent that they are reproductions of a single photograph.
I would also stress that you should not include high-school homework assignment/projects. Schools like to see initiative and independant work, not something you "had to do". I gave a fail to any applicant a Loo who explained their pieces as such. "Well the teacher told us to paint a Van Gogh, so here are some shitty sunflowers..."
Good and varied graphite sketches go a very long way too, especially if you're presenting your work in person (such as Loo). Pick a corner in your town and sketch on the spot using heavy pencils/charcoal. Add flavour and excitement to the work that shows you can build an artwork, not just paint a pink cow in a green field. The boat and shoreline pieces are those I find the strongest.
Teddy - this is all just my opinion and you should take it with a grain of salt:
It really doesn't matter what you major in. Just don't have a boring portfolio. The disadvantages I see with going to UofT are:
1. If you don't make some interesting stuff on your own time, you and a bunch of your classmates will all be submitting the same portfolio with the same three assignments, some drawings of fruit, portraits, a table you made to show you can build things, pictures of buildings, and a poster you made for your student union. Some of you will get in, but you better be stunningly good at hand-rendering pomeganate kernels.
2. Being around a bunch of people who didn't get into Waterloo and basically have the same plan as you sounds like a morale-killer. You're basically getting an arts degree; if I were in your position I'd rather major in literature or anthro or something that interests me more.
At the end of the day, interesting self-motivated work will get you in. An applicant who studied physics for a couple of years, then worked construction, built a shack in his backyard, and did some action painting is more likely to catch my eye than the "knows how to draw" candidate (but that's just me).
If you absolutely NEED to do schooling that will help build your portfolio and you have NO interest in studying anything outside design I would consider an allied field like industrial design or sculpture, as they would give you a unique angle for your application.
You might want to take a look at these examples of successful applicants to UofC. Without getting into how "good" we think the work is, we can notice that one applicant has an interesting design-related background (industrial design), whereas the other isn't necessarily great at anything but has a variety of work: http://evds.ucalgary.ca/content/master-architecture-march-admissions
zenza:
I'd put an asterick next to UofT; so many of their applicants are shooting for Harvard/Yale etc, so the 'non-architecture' pool ends up containing overqualified people with substantial design training.
Take a gap year, take what you want in undergrad, and get your Master's in Urban Planning. Hella more fun.