A licensed architect who received his degree in architecture from another country admitted that he forged his official college transcript so that he would not go back to school to satisfy NCARB and NAAB requirements. Because he did a great job at fabricating his college transcript, he was approved to take all the ARE exams and now he is a license architect. Should I report this person to NCARB or NAAB?
tduds
Jun 17, 16 12:11 pm
Yes
chigurh
Jun 17, 16 12:13 pm
No, mind your own business. Think karma, if you fuck this guy over, you got bad things coming. My guess is the only reason you ask is because you don't like the dude or he recently pissed you off. Get over it - not your business to get involved in.
x-jla
Jun 17, 16 12:15 pm
Fucking Henry hill.
gwharton
Jun 17, 16 12:19 pm
This is very common, particularly with candidates from certain areas of the world. Nobody ever seems to check it.
Everyday Intern
Jun 17, 16 12:22 pm
I'm not mentioning any names, but if you say the right things here, there are those who will magically appear on the thread to report the guy for you. They'd probably even go out of their way to report him back in his home country for good measure.
tduds
Jun 17, 16 12:24 pm
If you say his name once he'll appear. He's like an overeager Beetlejuice.
x-jla
Jun 17, 16 12:26 pm
Balkins, Balkins, Balkins
archanonymous
Jun 17, 16 12:26 pm
INB4 DMPSTRFR
tduds
Jun 17, 16 12:27 pm
Dumpsterfire Dumpsterfire Dumpsterfire
Everyday Intern
Jun 17, 16 12:31 pm
Great, now look what you've done!
archtern2016 ... I'd recommend buckling up and holding on tight.
Non Sequitur
Jun 17, 16 12:33 pm
where's the Balkins signal?
But seriously, yes, report.
Volunteer
Jun 17, 16 12:34 pm
The licensing authority should be requesting a certified copy of the transcript directly from the school in all cases.
Tough call for you. Given the circle jerk licensing has become I might pretend I never heard him say anything.
Everyday Intern
Jun 17, 16 12:39 pm
archanonymous
Jun 17, 16 12:43 pm
there's always blackmail, too.
archtern2016
Jun 17, 16 12:55 pm
What he did was against AIA code of ethics. Those of us who followed the rules invested time and money to get our architecture degree. Yes, I am pissed because he took the easy way route and I cannot stand people cheating their way out and getting away with it. @volunteer, yes you are suppose to send NCARB a certified copy of your college transcript but somehow NCARB did not detect it.
chigurh
Jun 17, 16 12:58 pm
u big baby. focus on your own shit.
x-jla
Jun 17, 16 1:04 pm
How do you even know for sure?
Volunteer
Jun 17, 16 1:07 pm
The licensing authority should request a copy of the transcript directly from the school. To save the $5 or so the authority is probably requesting that the applicant have the transcript mailed to them (after the applicant pays for it).
chigurh
Jun 17, 16 1:15 pm
The easy route is getting a degree, doing IDP and passing all of the AREs? Sounds like he did the same shit as everybody else. The more important question is whether or not he is a competent architect. All of the items above and work experience carry far more weight than a degree in determining competency. People coming out of college don't know how to practice worth a shit - NAAB or not, doesn't matter. Get off your slander campaign and leave the dude alone u big crybaby.
archtern2016
Jun 17, 16 1:21 pm
@chigurh, you sounded like you are somewhat guilty of it... Scared of the possibility of NCARB will start auditing college transcript and paperwork???
chigurh
Jun 17, 16 1:29 pm
you slanderous idiot - I feel sorry for anybody that confides in you especially this person in question, obviously you are just a malicious little shit.
Non Sequitur
Jun 17, 16 1:30 pm
Chigurh... you're ruining a perfectly good Friday afternoon entertainment dumpster.
tduds
Jun 17, 16 1:32 pm
It doesn't matter whether or not it's the right thing to do, it's more important to insult the OP personally.
archtern2016
Jun 17, 16 1:44 pm
@Chigurh - Wow....your response really speaks for what a great person you are. Happy Friday!
cadomestique
Jun 17, 16 1:52 pm
wait wait , lemme get my pitchforkkkk be right back *rushes away*
x-jla
Jun 17, 16 1:56 pm
I wonder what the law says about this in Oregon.? Really wish someone from Oregon could chime in....(I'll try to get that dumpster fire started for you non)
x-jla
Jun 17, 16 2:00 pm
.
tduds
Jun 17, 16 2:03 pm
I'm from Oregon, I'll happily pretend I care for a few posts if it passes the time on a Friday.
x-jla
Jun 17, 16 2:07 pm
.
Donna Sink
Jun 17, 16 2:11 pm
How did you hear about this? It sounds off to me. I'm pretty sure, as others have said, you contact the school to have them forward an official transcript to NCARB (I could be wrong but those of you more recently involved with the process will know for sure).
Did this person forge an entire academic history at a school s/he never attended in the US? Or manipulate an authentic degree in another field to make it look like an architecture degree? Or what?
Donna Sink
Jun 17, 16 2:12 pm
(Also, I'm LOLing at your response on the other thread, tduds! So sarcastic and cool!)
x-jla
Jun 17, 16 2:14 pm
The op was probably this kind of kid...
Everyday Intern
Jun 17, 16 2:19 pm
I'm looking at the answers on NCARB's webpage for Oregon's licensing requirements. Under initial licensure question 6 asks if the board accepts an EESA-NCARB Education Evaluation of a foreign education as an alternative means of satisfying your education requirement, and the answer is yes.
I think someone better call NCARB and OBAE to verify that an EESA-NCARB Education Evaluation is ok ... then post at least 500 words explaining the response. Then post another 500 words explaining how one could forge the transcript because the transcript doesn't have a holographic sticker.
tduds
Jun 17, 16 2:23 pm
I should probably lose my NCARB eligibility for not personally reporting on this person I don't know the real name of.
anonitect
Jun 17, 16 2:26 pm
When I was in kindergarten, a girl in my class stole my Kleenex. I told on her. The teacher spanked both of us. Why? Because you don't rat.
My guess is that he changed a course description to make it fit into the requirement for a pro practices course or something. Not a big deal in my opinion, and unless there's a competence issue, you should leave it alone. Ask yourself your motivation: are you really worried about his work, or are you jealous that he outranks you? Or, is it xenophobia? Recognize that what you're talking about doing is likely to ruin his life.
x-jla
Jun 17, 16 2:44 pm
^thats how it should be anonitect...we've turned into a nation where being a rat is acceptable...I blame it on the lack of peer consequences like getting made fun of for snitching or getting punched in the face by peers for being a tattletale. These millennials are so devoted to authority and self and completely devoid of the social codes that earlier generations grew up with ...
no_form
Jun 17, 16 2:53 pm
i think the internet is down in astoria today.
Everyday Intern
Jun 17, 16 3:03 pm
To put it more succinctly ... bullying.
"^thats how it should be anonitect...we've turned into a nation where being a rat is acceptable...I blame it on the lack of [bullying]. These millennials are so devoted to authority and self and completely devoid of the social codes that earlier generations grew up with ... [like bullying.]"
You're complaining because we've tried to create a society that allows people to feel safe from being bullied. However, no one wants to admit that tattling is just a more passive aggressive form of bullying.
@jla-x I disagree. I think we turned into a nation where cheating, taking advantage of the systems and cutting corners are acceptable.
x-jla
Jun 17, 16 3:08 pm
True EI, but bullying is different from social discipline. Problem is the stupid schools don't distinguish the two...they have "zero tolerance". In other words you have to be a socially neutered bullshiter.
archtern2016
Jun 17, 16 3:12 pm
Bullying exist because those victims are afraid to tell someone about it or they cannot speak for themselves. Most likely those bullies are cheaters themselves...
no_form
Jun 17, 16 3:16 pm
"cheating, taking advantage of the systems and cutting corners are acceptable."
sounds about right.
x-jla
Jun 17, 16 3:21 pm
They have even gone so far as to call bully's " bulliers" so the assholes don't get their feelings hurt for being assholes. They call it reverse bullying now-"labeling" the perpetrators... a just consequences of being an asshole in my day. Now kids can act like pricks without the consequence of being labled as a prick...no social repercussions for shitty behavior...sounds like a good deal for pricks and a bad deal for society.
x-jla
Jun 17, 16 3:25 pm
In my day If you didn't share- you were stingy and no one wanted to play!!! People called you stingy and made fun of it...then you likely learned not to be stingy. It's called social learning. Picking on someone for no reason like how they look is bullying. That's different and always terrible.
anonitect
Jun 17, 16 3:25 pm
Architern - maybe the guy did cut corners, but is he really a fraud, or was he just working around what we all know are some pretty onerous regulations and requirements?
Yeah, he probably shouldn't have done it, and he certainly shouldn't have made the mistake of thinking that you were his friend. Now you're considering taking an action that would have a catastrophic impact on his ability to support himself (and his family, if he has one.)
Please don't allow the nasty comments you've gotten here to cloud your judgement. Don't act rashly. Really, truly ask yourself:
Does he actually deserve to have his license taken away?
Are you willing to tell your co-workers what you're doing, or would you do it in secret? If you can't accept the responsibility for what you're suggesting by doing it publicly, then how could you possibly live with yourself? Doing it in secret would be cowardly.
Do I want to be responsible for destroying someone's career?
Everyday Intern
Jun 17, 16 3:26 pm
I see the difference and like the distinction. It would be safe to say that social discipline is adhering to what society has deemed appropriate behavior, no?
So social discipline would indicate that bullying is bad. It would also indicate, by looking at this thread, that snitches get stitches.
What would social discipline say about following the rules (i.e. don't steal anonitect's kleenex)? Aren't rules and laws in place to enforce what society has deemed acceptable and unacceptable behavior?
anonitect
Jun 17, 16 3:37 pm
Aren't rules and laws in place to enforce what society has deemed acceptable and unacceptable behavior?
Yes, but when you report someone to the authorities, are you doing it to protect someone's welfare and safety, or are you using the rules out of spite, to get revenge, or to gain an advantage?
Man brandishing a weapon, call the cops, no doubt. If it turns out that the garage of the neighbor whose politics you don't like got built an inch too close to the property line, just shut the fuck up.
Volunteer
Jun 17, 16 4:22 pm
Let it be, let it be,
Let it be, let it be,
Whisper words of wisdom,
Let it be
Bloopox
Jun 17, 16 4:50 pm
Are you licensed? If so, you should consider that most states' laws say that as a licensed professional you must report this person. Of course I don't really see how you could ever be found out and proven to have known about this and not reported it, so I don't think you're really at any risk of any action against you for not reporting it - but if you're licensed then you did sign something agreeing to follow the laws and that is part of the laws, so consider whether you consider that an ethical obligation.
Every time I've had to have a transcript sent to a state it has had to come directly from the school - I can understand how documents can be forged, but how does one get around the requirement for direct transmittal from the school?
It's funny how some people can be so adamant about the wrongness of ratting out someone, and others so sure that you should. Some years ago there was a thread on here, or maybe another forum, where an architect in Pennsylvania was alleging something similar about another architect, and he was so adamant about getting the other guy's license taken away that he refused to drop the issue even when the accused architect died.
On the fence
Jun 17, 16 4:53 pm
"What he did was against AIA code of ethics. "
Is he in the AIA?
Being licensed and being a member of the AIA club are not the same thing. Did you merely want him out of the AIA or have his license revoked?
Ah, what the hey, its Friday, report him to both. Probably NCARB too.
A licensed architect who received his degree in architecture from another country admitted that he forged his official college transcript so that he would not go back to school to satisfy NCARB and NAAB requirements. Because he did a great job at fabricating his college transcript, he was approved to take all the ARE exams and now he is a license architect. Should I report this person to NCARB or NAAB?
Yes
No, mind your own business. Think karma, if you fuck this guy over, you got bad things coming. My guess is the only reason you ask is because you don't like the dude or he recently pissed you off. Get over it - not your business to get involved in.
Fucking Henry hill.
This is very common, particularly with candidates from certain areas of the world. Nobody ever seems to check it.
I'm not mentioning any names, but if you say the right things here, there are those who will magically appear on the thread to report the guy for you. They'd probably even go out of their way to report him back in his home country for good measure.
If you say his name once he'll appear. He's like an overeager Beetlejuice.
Balkins, Balkins, Balkins
INB4 DMPSTRFR
Dumpsterfire Dumpsterfire Dumpsterfire
Great, now look what you've done!
archtern2016 ... I'd recommend buckling up and holding on tight.
where's the Balkins signal?
But seriously, yes, report.
The licensing authority should be requesting a certified copy of the transcript directly from the school in all cases. Tough call for you. Given the circle jerk licensing has become I might pretend I never heard him say anything.
there's always blackmail, too.
What he did was against AIA code of ethics. Those of us who followed the rules invested time and money to get our architecture degree. Yes, I am pissed because he took the easy way route and I cannot stand people cheating their way out and getting away with it. @volunteer, yes you are suppose to send NCARB a certified copy of your college transcript but somehow NCARB did not detect it.
u big baby. focus on your own shit.
How do you even know for sure?
The licensing authority should request a copy of the transcript directly from the school. To save the $5 or so the authority is probably requesting that the applicant have the transcript mailed to them (after the applicant pays for it).
The easy route is getting a degree, doing IDP and passing all of the AREs? Sounds like he did the same shit as everybody else. The more important question is whether or not he is a competent architect. All of the items above and work experience carry far more weight than a degree in determining competency. People coming out of college don't know how to practice worth a shit - NAAB or not, doesn't matter. Get off your slander campaign and leave the dude alone u big crybaby.
@chigurh, you sounded like you are somewhat guilty of it... Scared of the possibility of NCARB will start auditing college transcript and paperwork???
you slanderous idiot - I feel sorry for anybody that confides in you especially this person in question, obviously you are just a malicious little shit.
Chigurh... you're ruining a perfectly good Friday afternoon entertainment dumpster.
It doesn't matter whether or not it's the right thing to do, it's more important to insult the OP personally.
@Chigurh - Wow....your response really speaks for what a great person you are. Happy Friday!
wait wait , lemme get my pitchforkkkk be right back *rushes away*
I wonder what the law says about this in Oregon.? Really wish someone from Oregon could chime in....(I'll try to get that dumpster fire started for you non)
I'm from Oregon, I'll happily pretend I care for a few posts if it passes the time on a Friday.
.
How did you hear about this? It sounds off to me. I'm pretty sure, as others have said, you contact the school to have them forward an official transcript to NCARB (I could be wrong but those of you more recently involved with the process will know for sure).
Did this person forge an entire academic history at a school s/he never attended in the US? Or manipulate an authentic degree in another field to make it look like an architecture degree? Or what?
(Also, I'm LOLing at your response on the other thread, tduds! So sarcastic and cool!)
The op was probably this kind of kid...
I'm looking at the answers on NCARB's webpage for Oregon's licensing requirements. Under initial licensure question 6 asks if the board accepts an EESA-NCARB Education Evaluation of a foreign education as an alternative means of satisfying your education requirement, and the answer is yes.
I think someone better call NCARB and OBAE to verify that an EESA-NCARB Education Evaluation is ok ... then post at least 500 words explaining the response. Then post another 500 words explaining how one could forge the transcript because the transcript doesn't have a holographic sticker.
I should probably lose my NCARB eligibility for not personally reporting on this person I don't know the real name of.
When I was in kindergarten, a girl in my class stole my Kleenex. I told on her. The teacher spanked both of us. Why? Because you don't rat.
My guess is that he changed a course description to make it fit into the requirement for a pro practices course or something. Not a big deal in my opinion, and unless there's a competence issue, you should leave it alone. Ask yourself your motivation: are you really worried about his work, or are you jealous that he outranks you? Or, is it xenophobia? Recognize that what you're talking about doing is likely to ruin his life.
^thats how it should be anonitect...we've turned into a nation where being a rat is acceptable...I blame it on the lack of peer consequences like getting made fun of for snitching or getting punched in the face by peers for being a tattletale. These millennials are so devoted to authority and self and completely devoid of the social codes that earlier generations grew up with ...
i think the internet is down in astoria today.
To put it more succinctly ... bullying.
"^thats how it should be anonitect...we've turned into a nation where being a rat is acceptable...I blame it on the lack of [bullying]. These millennials are so devoted to authority and self and completely devoid of the social codes that earlier generations grew up with ... [like bullying.]"
You're complaining because we've tried to create a society that allows people to feel safe from being bullied. However, no one wants to admit that tattling is just a more passive aggressive form of bullying.
You could blame Obama if that's your jam.
@jla-x I disagree. I think we turned into a nation where cheating, taking advantage of the systems and cutting corners are acceptable.
True EI, but bullying is different from social discipline. Problem is the stupid schools don't distinguish the two...they have "zero tolerance". In other words you have to be a socially neutered bullshiter.
Bullying exist because those victims are afraid to tell someone about it or they cannot speak for themselves. Most likely those bullies are cheaters themselves...
"cheating, taking advantage of the systems and cutting corners are acceptable."
sounds about right.
They have even gone so far as to call bully's " bulliers" so the assholes don't get their feelings hurt for being assholes. They call it reverse bullying now-"labeling" the perpetrators... a just consequences of being an asshole in my day. Now kids can act like pricks without the consequence of being labled as a prick...no social repercussions for shitty behavior...sounds like a good deal for pricks and a bad deal for society.
In my day If you didn't share- you were stingy and no one wanted to play!!! People called you stingy and made fun of it...then you likely learned not to be stingy. It's called social learning. Picking on someone for no reason like how they look is bullying. That's different and always terrible.
Architern - maybe the guy did cut corners, but is he really a fraud, or was he just working around what we all know are some pretty onerous regulations and requirements?
Yeah, he probably shouldn't have done it, and he certainly shouldn't have made the mistake of thinking that you were his friend. Now you're considering taking an action that would have a catastrophic impact on his ability to support himself (and his family, if he has one.)
Please don't allow the nasty comments you've gotten here to cloud your judgement. Don't act rashly. Really, truly ask yourself:
Does he actually deserve to have his license taken away?
Are you willing to tell your co-workers what you're doing, or would you do it in secret? If you can't accept the responsibility for what you're suggesting by doing it publicly, then how could you possibly live with yourself? Doing it in secret would be cowardly.
Do I want to be responsible for destroying someone's career?
I see the difference and like the distinction. It would be safe to say that social discipline is adhering to what society has deemed appropriate behavior, no?
So social discipline would indicate that bullying is bad. It would also indicate, by looking at this thread, that snitches get stitches.
What would social discipline say about following the rules (i.e. don't steal anonitect's kleenex)? Aren't rules and laws in place to enforce what society has deemed acceptable and unacceptable behavior?
Aren't rules and laws in place to enforce what society has deemed acceptable and unacceptable behavior?
Yes, but when you report someone to the authorities, are you doing it to protect someone's welfare and safety, or are you using the rules out of spite, to get revenge, or to gain an advantage?
Man brandishing a weapon, call the cops, no doubt. If it turns out that the garage of the neighbor whose politics you don't like got built an inch too close to the property line, just shut the fuck up.
Let it be, let it be, Let it be, let it be, Whisper words of wisdom, Let it be
Are you licensed? If so, you should consider that most states' laws say that as a licensed professional you must report this person. Of course I don't really see how you could ever be found out and proven to have known about this and not reported it, so I don't think you're really at any risk of any action against you for not reporting it - but if you're licensed then you did sign something agreeing to follow the laws and that is part of the laws, so consider whether you consider that an ethical obligation.
Every time I've had to have a transcript sent to a state it has had to come directly from the school - I can understand how documents can be forged, but how does one get around the requirement for direct transmittal from the school?
It's funny how some people can be so adamant about the wrongness of ratting out someone, and others so sure that you should. Some years ago there was a thread on here, or maybe another forum, where an architect in Pennsylvania was alleging something similar about another architect, and he was so adamant about getting the other guy's license taken away that he refused to drop the issue even when the accused architect died.
"What he did was against AIA code of ethics. "
Is he in the AIA?
Being licensed and being a member of the AIA club are not the same thing. Did you merely want him out of the AIA or have his license revoked?
Ah, what the hey, its Friday, report him to both. Probably NCARB too.