Currently, I am completing an internship for the summer. In the fall, I will be returning to grad school to complete one more semester. When is the appropriate time to inquire about the possibility of returning as a full time employee in January? Also, is it likely I will return as an intern or entry level architectural designer?
Thanks!!
Non Sequitur
Jun 15, 16 4:49 pm
Are they paying you for your current position?
tduds
Jun 15, 16 4:51 pm
The best time was yesterday. The 2nd best time is now.
Do it before the internship is over.
natematt
Jun 15, 16 9:09 pm
Depends on the firm, and on you.
I would agree with tduds about asking asap, but if they want you back obviously depends on how they felt about you, and what the market is for them when the time comes. If it is only one semester the time frame isn't that long, so you could even get an offer now at some places.
As for title. I would say entry level or bust. They might take you back as an intern, but I would not agree to that, especially in this market. If they don't want permanent, then at least as a full time contract employee on an equivalent level with entry-level architectural staff. If they can't do at least that much, I would look elsewhere.
designer_jawn
Jun 16, 16 8:51 am
Non Sequitur: The internship is paid.
tduds; Thanks for your response!
Natematt: I wanted to ask ASAP but I was not sure. Since it's only been a month into the internship, I did not know how much time I should give them to develop some type of opinion/position on my work. A semester is nothing, and going into my final semester with a job secured will definitely be less stressful.
I have also been questioning my career trajectory. Do you go to a well-known, established, mid to large size firm and be one of their numbers for 5+ years or do I go to a much smaller firm where I am thrown into task I have never done before? (this may all be a rhetorical question)
I should also preface this with my background. I did complete a B.S. Arch. and soon I will soon complete my M.ARCH. This is actually my first internship. I did not use any of my summers in the past 5 years due to family/personal issues. I have only completed short externships at well known firms. (yes, I know my work experience is 0 and I understand I am going against people with plenty in this job market)
Josh Mings
Jun 16, 16 10:22 am
Do you want to be comfortable or feel that you are in over your head and challenged all the time?
I chose the latter, and don't regret it...but also because my personality doesn't mesh with corporate firms.
designer_jawn
Jun 16, 16 10:44 am
Comfortable equates to a robot lifestyle. You wake up, go to work, complete your task, go home, REPEAT! That can be demotivating and uninspiring. Whereas, challenged all the time, can keep your mind working and instead of getting lost in a monotonous task.
Does one lend itself more of a work life balance and the latter lead to more stress and late nights?
Everyday Intern
Jun 16, 16 2:51 pm
"Does one lend itself more of a work life balance and the latter lead to more stress and late nights?"
I think this is more nuanced than the types of responses your question will elicit. For example, many people claim that they get bored and are never exposed to anything new and end up working insane hours at large firms. My experience is the opposite. Many also claim that you get more exposure and will learn more at small firms. I've worked at small firms where this is the case, and others where it is the opposite.
I think we try to paint architecture firms with a broad brush to try and make some sense out of it, but the reality is that all of this depends greatly on the firm and its culture more than the size. I tend to also think that it depends on the employee's attitude and drive as well.
From my experience, the best work life balance I have had is at my current firm (a well-known large international firm). It also happens to have the most interesting projects, and the most challenging problems to solve. The most stress and late nights I've had to deal with have been at small firms. It also happens to be where I've had the most monotonous tasks and least inspiring projects.
senjohnblutarsky
Jun 16, 16 3:09 pm
If I remember right, my firm asked me to come back. But, if they hadn't, I probably would have just asked if they were interested in having me back, about a month before the end of the summer. This is not too early. You don't want to have them say no, and have a long, miserable end to your internship. And by then, they probably know if they want you back.
designer_jawn
Jun 17, 16 11:22 am
Thank you everyone for the responses!
Quick question (I hope)!
Do I inquire about a coming back to the PM I am working under, Principal, or the person that hired me?
Thanks!
3tk
Jun 17, 16 12:09 pm
As soon as you know it's some place you want to work for at least in the short term, ask the question as casually as you can with your immediate supervisor. If they think it's an option they'll point to who you need to speak with. They'll let you know if they're interested, can offer right away, or if you'll need to get back in touch later. Senjohnblutarsky has a point in asking at the end - you might express your interest in coming back earlier but might wait on the actual talk at some type of exit interview where you can ask what you might work on in your end of school to help make yourself more employable.
In terms of career trajectory, until you know what you want to do the first 5 or so years you can be in most any type of firm and learn something useful. You will want to be exposed to various project types and every part of a practice (IDP, despite its problems, provides some sense of the tasks that an architect needs to know how to do), and may move around a few firms to get there. The main thing is that you'll learn enough to move up the food chain and be desirable for the next firm you want to work for. That is to say, the first job isn't your last so don't stress too much, but understand that what you accomplish there is what helps you land the next job so make sure you're learning a lot.
In terms of work-life balance it really depends on a firm's culture. In general I've found that firms with partners that have healthy lives outside of practice tend to allow staff more leverage as long as the work is being done (efficient staff work less and can bring in the same revenue). One way to assess that is to see what comes up in the interview (often they'll talk about their vacations and hobbies, if it's all work it's a red flag).
ShakeyDeal
Aug 3, 16 8:19 pm
To add to cmvander's initial inquiry, I have related questions:
1. What traits does a company look for in an intern?
2. While interning, what can one do to help his/her case for eventually becoming a full employee with the company?
Question!
Currently, I am completing an internship for the summer. In the fall, I will be returning to grad school to complete one more semester. When is the appropriate time to inquire about the possibility of returning as a full time employee in January? Also, is it likely I will return as an intern or entry level architectural designer?
Thanks!!
Are they paying you for your current position?
The best time was yesterday. The 2nd best time is now.
Do it before the internship is over.
Depends on the firm, and on you.
I would agree with tduds about asking asap, but if they want you back obviously depends on how they felt about you, and what the market is for them when the time comes. If it is only one semester the time frame isn't that long, so you could even get an offer now at some places.
As for title. I would say entry level or bust. They might take you back as an intern, but I would not agree to that, especially in this market. If they don't want permanent, then at least as a full time contract employee on an equivalent level with entry-level architectural staff. If they can't do at least that much, I would look elsewhere.
Non Sequitur: The internship is paid.
tduds; Thanks for your response!
Natematt: I wanted to ask ASAP but I was not sure. Since it's only been a month into the internship, I did not know how much time I should give them to develop some type of opinion/position on my work. A semester is nothing, and going into my final semester with a job secured will definitely be less stressful.
I have also been questioning my career trajectory. Do you go to a well-known, established, mid to large size firm and be one of their numbers for 5+ years or do I go to a much smaller firm where I am thrown into task I have never done before? (this may all be a rhetorical question)
I should also preface this with my background. I did complete a B.S. Arch. and soon I will soon complete my M.ARCH. This is actually my first internship. I did not use any of my summers in the past 5 years due to family/personal issues. I have only completed short externships at well known firms. (yes, I know my work experience is 0 and I understand I am going against people with plenty in this job market)
Do you want to be comfortable or feel that you are in over your head and challenged all the time?
I chose the latter, and don't regret it...but also because my personality doesn't mesh with corporate firms.
Comfortable equates to a robot lifestyle. You wake up, go to work, complete your task, go home, REPEAT! That can be demotivating and uninspiring. Whereas, challenged all the time, can keep your mind working and instead of getting lost in a monotonous task.
Does one lend itself more of a work life balance and the latter lead to more stress and late nights?
"Does one lend itself more of a work life balance and the latter lead to more stress and late nights?"
I think this is more nuanced than the types of responses your question will elicit. For example, many people claim that they get bored and are never exposed to anything new and end up working insane hours at large firms. My experience is the opposite. Many also claim that you get more exposure and will learn more at small firms. I've worked at small firms where this is the case, and others where it is the opposite.
I think we try to paint architecture firms with a broad brush to try and make some sense out of it, but the reality is that all of this depends greatly on the firm and its culture more than the size. I tend to also think that it depends on the employee's attitude and drive as well.
From my experience, the best work life balance I have had is at my current firm (a well-known large international firm). It also happens to have the most interesting projects, and the most challenging problems to solve. The most stress and late nights I've had to deal with have been at small firms. It also happens to be where I've had the most monotonous tasks and least inspiring projects.
If I remember right, my firm asked me to come back. But, if they hadn't, I probably would have just asked if they were interested in having me back, about a month before the end of the summer. This is not too early. You don't want to have them say no, and have a long, miserable end to your internship. And by then, they probably know if they want you back.
Thank you everyone for the responses!
Quick question (I hope)!
Do I inquire about a coming back to the PM I am working under, Principal, or the person that hired me?
Thanks!
As soon as you know it's some place you want to work for at least in the short term, ask the question as casually as you can with your immediate supervisor. If they think it's an option they'll point to who you need to speak with. They'll let you know if they're interested, can offer right away, or if you'll need to get back in touch later. Senjohnblutarsky has a point in asking at the end - you might express your interest in coming back earlier but might wait on the actual talk at some type of exit interview where you can ask what you might work on in your end of school to help make yourself more employable.
In terms of career trajectory, until you know what you want to do the first 5 or so years you can be in most any type of firm and learn something useful. You will want to be exposed to various project types and every part of a practice (IDP, despite its problems, provides some sense of the tasks that an architect needs to know how to do), and may move around a few firms to get there. The main thing is that you'll learn enough to move up the food chain and be desirable for the next firm you want to work for. That is to say, the first job isn't your last so don't stress too much, but understand that what you accomplish there is what helps you land the next job so make sure you're learning a lot.
In terms of work-life balance it really depends on a firm's culture. In general I've found that firms with partners that have healthy lives outside of practice tend to allow staff more leverage as long as the work is being done (efficient staff work less and can bring in the same revenue). One way to assess that is to see what comes up in the interview (often they'll talk about their vacations and hobbies, if it's all work it's a red flag).
To add to cmvander's initial inquiry, I have related questions:
1. What traits does a company look for in an intern?
2. While interning, what can one do to help his/her case for eventually becoming a full employee with the company?