Hi guys, before I start my CM degree I just wanted to ask people here in the AEC industry just how difficult it is to enter the industry with no field work experience as a CM or any associated job?
I talked to the student advisors at my school and they were adamant about their heads receiving offers after completing their studies. I talked to some alumni on a university alumni forum and they vouched for it but I just want to get the scoop from people already working in the industry.
I'm sure some of them did internships. I'm not too worried because my family is heavily involved in construction and if push came to shove I could get some field work. But I was hoping to land an assistant PM or asst CM position right after finishing. How does finding an entry level CM position work? I know the school wants to sell me on the degree so I trust them but want to get industry knowledge. Any info would help. Any info on what to do to gain an entry level position would help.
manoverde84
Jun 2, 16 11:54 am
I forgot to mention that I'm no spring chicken. I'm in a masters program and I'm 30 years of age. I'll probably be 32 when finished so I'm wondering if age discrimination might be a real thing for me. My background is in economics and I've mostly worked in data processing, stats and marketing. I'm math savy and my jobs required me to do use math if that helps. Lol
x intern
Jun 2, 16 3:07 pm
They were hiring cm majors in Jr. Year back in 2007. I would imagine you wouldn't have any issue right now but the tougher question is how will it be in two years. Market seems strong but it did in the beginning of 2008 as well. Our profession is one of the first to feel market issues and last to recover. But if your family is in the game you should know that. The paperwork will only get worse as we transition more and more into paperless so you would probably be in high demand if market holds up.
manoverde84
Jun 2, 16 3:26 pm
Oh yes my family was hurting bad 08-13, then they had more work then they ever had before. So much that they couldn't find as many workers to fill the need. But now my dad is saying that he see some signs of it slowing a bit but that it should still be going. But he lives in southeast Texas near Houston so they were hit due to the oil dip. The rest of Texas Austin Dallas and SA are supposedly still going. I'm in CA right now LA to be exact and it's not bad at all but there's a measure making its round in city hall that is scaring everyone. It will put a two halt on all new construction that requires exemptions. Of course the city gives a bunch of exemptions to developers to increase development. Sucks but construction is what helped LA get out of a rut.
Anyways, in general you're saying it shouldn't be a big deal not to have field experience, right? I was about to join the local union and do an apprenticeship putting up drywall I was so worried I needed some experience! LOL
x intern
Jun 2, 16 3:55 pm
Don't know that putting up drywall would help. I'm in Dallas I don't see any indications of slow downs but presidential elections tend to cause people to stop and wait for the outcome so there is typically a lull. I think most cm majors start as assistant pm's from what I've seen as an architect. They do the paperwork side of construction they aren't out running the job. Seem kinda like lackeys in the beginning but that's every job. If you're good with numbers and paperwork you shouldn't have any issues.
manoverde84
Jun 2, 16 4:23 pm
Sweet! Excellent. I figured I'd start out as an assistant cm. yes I'm great with paperwork. I know all of the typical office softwares. Now my last question is age discrimination. I'll hit the job market at age 32. Is that too old?
Jun 2, 16 5:14 pm
x intern,
I'd say even from the input over the years from an architect with 40+ years of experience, he'd said that Presidential elections and other major or significant elections, there is usually a lull because some are waiting it all out.
Bennythejetr
Jun 2, 16 8:53 pm
I don't think actual physical field experience is required. It's more important to know how a building is put together. That can be acquired by observing and asking questions.
I started out as a drafter for a GC that needed shop drawings and details for a large project. Eventually, I worked my way up to estimator, then Project engineer, then assist PM, and finally PM. I never worked in the field, but I spent a good amount of time at the site observing the construction and asking questions.
You also have the superintendents and sub contractors to help you along the way. Being a problem solver is key.
x intern
Jun 2, 16 9:57 pm
Age in this business is an asset not a liability. You can't get respect until mid 30s a 20 year old is just a baby in construction.
manoverde84
Jun 2, 16 10:34 pm
Yes, but coming in at 32 as though I were a 22 year old fresh out of college? How would that look? I only have office and some management experience. I am learning autocad, revitt, to accompany my skills in excel, word, powerpoint, and primavera.
Basically, I'll acquire most if not all the knowledge needed but just lacking in experience.
no_form
Jun 2, 16 11:02 pm
Manover, go for it dude. Don't let age 32 stop you from doing anything. Especially your career ambitions.
LITS4FormZ
Jun 3, 16 12:56 am
If anything your age will help you. Workers don't like taking direction from 19 year old interns.
manoverde84
Jun 3, 16 1:58 am
I appreciate the encouragement guys, love it. But at the same time I am wondering is it a "go for it, it's an uphill battle at that age but don't let that stop you" OR a "go for it, that age doesn't matter at all, you're still young, no age discrimination"?
gdub
Jun 3, 16 2:34 am
When you are looking for a job, look for the Project Coordinator, Field Engineer and Assistant Project Manager jobs titles. You should have no problem getting hired right out of school into any of those positions, although often times, companies prefer a CM or Engineering degree over Architecture. Likely due to your business background in combination with your masters, you will become a Project Manager and be able to quickly. It is important to note that a "Construction Manager" and Project Manager is not always the same thing in every company. In larger companies, the Construction Manager is the person who acts more in an advisory, manager type role and oversees the Construction Project Managers. If that is the role you are seeking, then you will definitely need to start from the bottom to get there and won't be able to get that position right out of school. You shouldn't be concerned about your lack of physical labor skills. If you are concerned about it, look for a position where you can be Project Coordinator, Field Engineer or Assistant Manager on a larger project, whereby you are required to work from site and therefor will have the ability to walk the site daily and interact and learn from the Sub Trades on site. On the smaller projects(less than $12 million), most companies will have you work on several projects at once and be based from the office in which case, you won't be visiting sites as often. You will shadow the PM and get to learn the stuff you don't know. Becoming friends with the Superintendents and asking the Consultants lots of questions during their field reviews will help immensely in your professional growth.
manoverde84
Jun 3, 16 10:09 am
Perfect. I will look out for those positions! I know I can't be a CM right out of college so that's why I think I will instead look for the positions you listed. I'll start anywhere and do what it takes. And I'm assuming age doesn't matter as 32 is still fairly young, no?
x intern
Jun 3, 16 10:22 am
Age no insecurity yes
manoverde84
Jun 3, 16 10:35 am
Excellent point
Bennythejetr
Jun 3, 16 10:36 am
Age shouldn't matter. I started out in a construction office at the age of 29...2 years later I was managing small projects on my own. Now at 33, I'm working on some pretty big custom homes. Like anything, the harder you work, the more you learn, the faster you move up regardless of age.
I've come across PMs that are younger than me.
manoverde84
Jun 3, 16 12:27 pm
Sweet! That's great news!
manoverde84
Jun 4, 16 10:00 pm
One more question if ya don't mind. I read on another forum that the real money in CM is in designing/building. I didn't read what else what was said but it was something to that effect. I didn't get it fully. How do CMs design or build any structures? Did they mean to get on the side where you're helping in designing by providing input? I didn't quite get it.
Hi guys, before I start my CM degree I just wanted to ask people here in the AEC industry just how difficult it is to enter the industry with no field work experience as a CM or any associated job?
I talked to the student advisors at my school and they were adamant about their heads receiving offers after completing their studies. I talked to some alumni on a university alumni forum and they vouched for it but I just want to get the scoop from people already working in the industry.
I'm sure some of them did internships. I'm not too worried because my family is heavily involved in construction and if push came to shove I could get some field work. But I was hoping to land an assistant PM or asst CM position right after finishing. How does finding an entry level CM position work? I know the school wants to sell me on the degree so I trust them but want to get industry knowledge. Any info would help. Any info on what to do to gain an entry level position would help.
I forgot to mention that I'm no spring chicken. I'm in a masters program and I'm 30 years of age. I'll probably be 32 when finished so I'm wondering if age discrimination might be a real thing for me. My background is in economics and I've mostly worked in data processing, stats and marketing. I'm math savy and my jobs required me to do use math if that helps. Lol
They were hiring cm majors in Jr. Year back in 2007. I would imagine you wouldn't have any issue right now but the tougher question is how will it be in two years. Market seems strong but it did in the beginning of 2008 as well. Our profession is one of the first to feel market issues and last to recover. But if your family is in the game you should know that. The paperwork will only get worse as we transition more and more into paperless so you would probably be in high demand if market holds up.
Oh yes my family was hurting bad 08-13, then they had more work then they ever had before. So much that they couldn't find as many workers to fill the need. But now my dad is saying that he see some signs of it slowing a bit but that it should still be going. But he lives in southeast Texas near Houston so they were hit due to the oil dip. The rest of Texas Austin Dallas and SA are supposedly still going. I'm in CA right now LA to be exact and it's not bad at all but there's a measure making its round in city hall that is scaring everyone. It will put a two halt on all new construction that requires exemptions. Of course the city gives a bunch of exemptions to developers to increase development. Sucks but construction is what helped LA get out of a rut.
Anyways, in general you're saying it shouldn't be a big deal not to have field experience, right? I was about to join the local union and do an apprenticeship putting up drywall I was so worried I needed some experience! LOL
Don't know that putting up drywall would help. I'm in Dallas I don't see any indications of slow downs but presidential elections tend to cause people to stop and wait for the outcome so there is typically a lull. I think most cm majors start as assistant pm's from what I've seen as an architect. They do the paperwork side of construction they aren't out running the job. Seem kinda like lackeys in the beginning but that's every job. If you're good with numbers and paperwork you shouldn't have any issues.
Sweet! Excellent. I figured I'd start out as an assistant cm. yes I'm great with paperwork. I know all of the typical office softwares. Now my last question is age discrimination. I'll hit the job market at age 32. Is that too old?
x intern,
I'd say even from the input over the years from an architect with 40+ years of experience, he'd said that Presidential elections and other major or significant elections, there is usually a lull because some are waiting it all out.
I don't think actual physical field experience is required. It's more important to know how a building is put together. That can be acquired by observing and asking questions.
I started out as a drafter for a GC that needed shop drawings and details for a large project. Eventually, I worked my way up to estimator, then Project engineer, then assist PM, and finally PM. I never worked in the field, but I spent a good amount of time at the site observing the construction and asking questions.
You also have the superintendents and sub contractors to help you along the way. Being a problem solver is key.
Age in this business is an asset not a liability. You can't get respect until mid 30s a 20 year old is just a baby in construction.
Yes, but coming in at 32 as though I were a 22 year old fresh out of college? How would that look? I only have office and some management experience. I am learning autocad, revitt, to accompany my skills in excel, word, powerpoint, and primavera.
Basically, I'll acquire most if not all the knowledge needed but just lacking in experience.
Manover, go for it dude. Don't let age 32 stop you from doing anything. Especially your career ambitions.
If anything your age will help you. Workers don't like taking direction from 19 year old interns.
I appreciate the encouragement guys, love it. But at the same time I am wondering is it a "go for it, it's an uphill battle at that age but don't let that stop you" OR a "go for it, that age doesn't matter at all, you're still young, no age discrimination"?
When you are looking for a job, look for the Project Coordinator, Field Engineer and Assistant Project Manager jobs titles. You should have no problem getting hired right out of school into any of those positions, although often times, companies prefer a CM or Engineering degree over Architecture. Likely due to your business background in combination with your masters, you will become a Project Manager and be able to quickly. It is important to note that a "Construction Manager" and Project Manager is not always the same thing in every company. In larger companies, the Construction Manager is the person who acts more in an advisory, manager type role and oversees the Construction Project Managers. If that is the role you are seeking, then you will definitely need to start from the bottom to get there and won't be able to get that position right out of school. You shouldn't be concerned about your lack of physical labor skills. If you are concerned about it, look for a position where you can be Project Coordinator, Field Engineer or Assistant Manager on a larger project, whereby you are required to work from site and therefor will have the ability to walk the site daily and interact and learn from the Sub Trades on site. On the smaller projects(less than $12 million), most companies will have you work on several projects at once and be based from the office in which case, you won't be visiting sites as often. You will shadow the PM and get to learn the stuff you don't know. Becoming friends with the Superintendents and asking the Consultants lots of questions during their field reviews will help immensely in your professional growth.
Perfect. I will look out for those positions! I know I can't be a CM right out of college so that's why I think I will instead look for the positions you listed. I'll start anywhere and do what it takes. And I'm assuming age doesn't matter as 32 is still fairly young, no?
Age no insecurity yes
Excellent point
Age shouldn't matter. I started out in a construction office at the age of 29...2 years later I was managing small projects on my own. Now at 33, I'm working on some pretty big custom homes. Like anything, the harder you work, the more you learn, the faster you move up regardless of age.
I've come across PMs that are younger than me.
Sweet! That's great news!
One more question if ya don't mind. I read on another forum that the real money in CM is in designing/building. I didn't read what else what was said but it was something to that effect. I didn't get it fully. How do CMs design or build any structures? Did they mean to get on the side where you're helping in designing by providing input? I didn't quite get it.
http://www.dbia.org/Pages/default.aspx
Thanks! Is it a more lucrative end of the trade?