I stayed at my old firm for two years as an intern/junior designer. In the beginning I helped with photoshop but was never part of the actual designing. Then I was stuck as a CAD person along with the other job captains & draftsman. I felt that I wanted to open myself into new opportunities and also wanted to see how other firms were like so I left.
It is my second month in my new firm. What I have noticed so far: it is all CDs. There is no conceptual design phase; it is all DDs and straight into CDs. Every project starts from prototypes, which I believe is handed by the client. It is a strongly client-based firm (they don't have a single titleblock for all the projects; the client gives us a title block. Plot styles /lineweights differ by every project) I feel like most of the job captains are not from a design studio school, they are more like CAD technicians.
I am very weak in sections and details so hopefully I can strengthen my weakness but I don't know how long I should stay in the firm. I don't want my resume to have such short experiences but I am afraid that I will be stuck as a CAD monkey and my hope of being part of real "designing" will not happen as I will be only drafting.
Someone once told me to take advantage of CD experience as much as I can, but there won't be anything in my portfolio except CDs and I will have a high chance of being a drafter in my next job. I feel so lost in my career!
(And to add, my job captain has really low standards. Doesn't care about layers, doesn't care how things are set up. He only wants the work done. Keeps telling me everything is "okay" and I see all his mistakes. I feel like a blind is leading a blind. Any advise on this?)
x intern
May 31, 16 3:49 pm
Did you know the type of work they do before getting hired. Almost all retail chains, hotel chains and restaurant chains work from a prototype. Not fun work in my opinion but pays pretty good for the owner. If you've only been there a very short time just leave and don't mention it when looking for a job.
hotissue
May 31, 16 4:03 pm
@x intern
Not quite. I did know that they do a lot of retail, but their website was pretty misleading. Had some awesome renderings but that is done in only one branch. Working off prototypes are okay; I totally agree that it is not fun. I like the benefits and the pay here, but I don't know how much it will help me grow as a junior designer.
sameolddoctor
May 31, 16 5:09 pm
You, madam/sir, have gotten punked. This is a shitty firm, one of many that dot the golden landscape of the profession.
That said, id stay for a few more months, then bail.
flatroof
May 31, 16 5:18 pm
Design is for chumps. Keep collecting that fat paycheck and bennies detailing Applebees' bathrooms.
zonker
May 31, 16 5:49 pm
its not that your job captain has low standards - he just needs to get things busted out - dont nitpick - job captains hate it when people nitpick
hotissue
May 31, 16 5:55 pm
@xenakis
I am pretty certain he has low standards. I have worked with four job captains at my old work and they wanted everything perfect; while this captain said we just have to meet the "minimum".
,,,,
May 31, 16 6:04 pm
Do you intend on getting your license?
If yes, I would get your experience requirements for CDs and get out of there as soon as possible.
If no, get the out of there as soon as possible.
IMO it is not your job captain's fault, this is coming from higher up the food chain.
hotissue
May 31, 16 6:11 pm
@z1111
Yes to licensure! I am actually done with my IDPs so I guess that means I need to get out asap. I am thinking about staying for 6months to a year maximum.. Hopefully it does not ruin my resume.
My director wants me to learn but my job captain wants to get work done. For me, I care about how it is done but of course his main emphasis is meeting deadlines. I guess I just have to self teach while getting stuff done. Thank you for your advise!
,,,,
May 31, 16 6:27 pm
Good for you on pursuing licensure.
I did not know you had finished IDP. I would like to amend my comments.
You have a stable work environment and a steady paycheck and benefits. I would recommend you take and finish the ARE before you leave.
whistler
Jun 1, 16 12:11 am
Get out soon before it becomes a dead end.... however, if you want to transition to a more design focused firm learn the tricks of the trade from your current office for other non design related tasks; marketing, production, office management etc ( assuming the office actually has some good qualities) many design firms are good at designing but the lack the production skills and marketing to lift them from being anything more that a small little boutique design firm. Sometimes good young design offices need to find more experienced staff to actually manage the office and "get shit done".
Worth thinking about what you can learn from each work experience.
arch76
Jun 1, 16 1:59 am
hotissue-
you should look at your current situation and think about what it might teach you. you are early in your professional career, so use this experience to absorb as much information as possible, and enjoy! learn from the stressed out PM who's responsible for the project.
hotissue
Jun 1, 16 11:02 am
@whistler
Thank you for your advice. Surprisingly, this firm has about 36 people (architects + civil engineers + landscape + site development + MEP + structural) and only one person can do photoshop! I started helping the guy with photoshop so hopefully it will help me add few elevations in my portfolio although it is not the best design in the world. I thought that having this company's name on my resume will help me since it seemed like a really big company (not to mention their crazy website) but all I will be working on is a franchise fast-food and gas stations . Since I can't really leave yet, I agree with you that there HAS to be something valuable I can gain from this experience.
@arch76
Thank you! I am trying to gain the most out of it. This job experience can't hurt me, right? I am currently working with my job captain because my PM works remote.. Not to mention, my studio director already thinks that I am smarter than my job captain and believes I can work on a project by myself within a year.
bendita
Jun 1, 16 11:19 am
Hot issue:
Similar situations... It sounds like you have an opportunity to strengthen the areas of your drawings that you would like to improve, so that's good. If you feel out the opportunity, you could bring up to a mentor or your director that you do want to be a well-rounded architect there, and pursue chances to be exposed to all that you can in the firm. For instance, if they are so client-driven, can you tag along in meetings and take notes? Could you suggest standard development, to make everyone's lives easier?
I find that, often times, it is about the little things. If you're drawing a lot, then try to make one great drawing at least once a day. You know what I mean? A drawing that communicates really well, or even a sheet that reads beautifully and clear. I get energy from drawing like that when I"m constantly on CDs. Hopefully you'll find some too. Best of luck!
Peter Normand
Jun 1, 16 1:47 pm
all but a few people in this profession get to be the designers exclusively. CD or production as it is sometimes called, is an essential task and has in many little ways design opportunities. I think if you want to be a designer you have to be a lot more experienced or come into an office with a client or two in your pocket.
The design opportunists that do come at you early in your career will be in little increments. If you miss them, or phone it in, because figuring out the door configuration on a toilet room is beneath you, the people in charge will not be so generous with other design opportunists in the future.
Over and OUT
Peter N
thisisnotmyname
Jun 1, 16 3:18 pm
Complete the ARE as fast as possible and then get another job.
haruki
Jun 1, 16 4:34 pm
If you don't like working there I would leave as soon as you can. When you interview at other firms you will be interviewing with people. They will understand if you explain to them why you didn't stay very long there. At least I would. In fact I would probably respect you more if you didn't stick around at a shitty firm. I don't like hiring people who spend years working at offices or on projects that they don't love as they develop a beat down attitude and I only want people who are excited about architecture working with me.
zonker
Jun 1, 16 5:33 pm
Production is design - don't kid yourself - I do more design in DD than SD - I mean when someone hands you a project at 100% SD, its very seldom totally resolved and here is where the real design opportunities are
sameolddoctor
Jun 1, 16 7:21 pm
Please dont listen to the people trying to make you feel good about your situation. There is plenty of work around, so get the f out as soon as you can. You can finish the ARE when at another firm too.
and oh yes, the wrong experience WILL hurt your resume, and you might find yourself doing many other dead end jobs.
sddd
Jun 1, 16 8:15 pm
Have to second Xenakis' post- production from SD wrap to CD's is critical experience. I can sympathize with the work not being particularly exciting (okay, gas stations and fast-food don't really even meet that description), but there is definite value in mastering production drawings for those projects. Seek out another opportunity that has more appeal, and in the meantime learn all you can about those project types (ie: you might not encounter much food service exp elsewhere). There's nothing at all wrong with seeking something better.
However, no matter where you end up you will inevitably do your time in production; be wary of falling into the trap of forming an expectation of becoming a "designer" without absorbing the knowledge that only years of exposure to the process brings. That doesn't exclude involvement in the formative design that occurs at project start, and a better firm exposes more junior members to these facets of our profession early and often because they lead to more well rounded staff.
In a more general sense (ie: not directly related to your predicament) passing the ARE doesn't bring that knowledge on its own. More and more often my peers are seeing new hires that have very unrealistic expectations based on licensing and are becoming more wary of these attitudes when interviewing. Speak positively of your current position, and when you find a better opportunity go for it; very few of us found a good fit before we'd moved through several firms.
x intern
Jun 2, 16 9:31 am
Unfortunately architecture is a buisness and these types of projects pay the bills. One of the bills being you. While I understand these types of projects are mundane someone has to do them, if we pass these off to builders who honestly could probably do them without much issue we would be one step closer to obsolete. We aren't all wonderful designers, it's just possible you are where you belong.
I stayed at my old firm for two years as an intern/junior designer. In the beginning I helped with photoshop but was never part of the actual designing. Then I was stuck as a CAD person along with the other job captains & draftsman. I felt that I wanted to open myself into new opportunities and also wanted to see how other firms were like so I left.
It is my second month in my new firm. What I have noticed so far: it is all CDs. There is no conceptual design phase; it is all DDs and straight into CDs. Every project starts from prototypes, which I believe is handed by the client. It is a strongly client-based firm (they don't have a single titleblock for all the projects; the client gives us a title block. Plot styles /lineweights differ by every project) I feel like most of the job captains are not from a design studio school, they are more like CAD technicians.
I am very weak in sections and details so hopefully I can strengthen my weakness but I don't know how long I should stay in the firm. I don't want my resume to have such short experiences but I am afraid that I will be stuck as a CAD monkey and my hope of being part of real "designing" will not happen as I will be only drafting.
Someone once told me to take advantage of CD experience as much as I can, but there won't be anything in my portfolio except CDs and I will have a high chance of being a drafter in my next job. I feel so lost in my career!
(And to add, my job captain has really low standards. Doesn't care about layers, doesn't care how things are set up. He only wants the work done. Keeps telling me everything is "okay" and I see all his mistakes. I feel like a blind is leading a blind. Any advise on this?)
Did you know the type of work they do before getting hired. Almost all retail chains, hotel chains and restaurant chains work from a prototype. Not fun work in my opinion but pays pretty good for the owner. If you've only been there a very short time just leave and don't mention it when looking for a job.
@x intern
Not quite. I did know that they do a lot of retail, but their website was pretty misleading. Had some awesome renderings but that is done in only one branch. Working off prototypes are okay; I totally agree that it is not fun. I like the benefits and the pay here, but I don't know how much it will help me grow as a junior designer.
You, madam/sir, have gotten punked. This is a shitty firm, one of many that dot the golden landscape of the profession.
That said, id stay for a few more months, then bail.
Design is for chumps. Keep collecting that fat paycheck and bennies detailing Applebees' bathrooms.
its not that your job captain has low standards - he just needs to get things busted out - dont nitpick - job captains hate it when people nitpick
@xenakis
I am pretty certain he has low standards. I have worked with four job captains at my old work and they wanted everything perfect; while this captain said we just have to meet the "minimum".
Do you intend on getting your license?
If yes, I would get your experience requirements for CDs and get out of there as soon as possible.
If no, get the out of there as soon as possible.
IMO it is not your job captain's fault, this is coming from higher up the food chain.
@z1111
Yes to licensure! I am actually done with my IDPs so I guess that means I need to get out asap. I am thinking about staying for 6months to a year maximum.. Hopefully it does not ruin my resume.
My director wants me to learn but my job captain wants to get work done. For me, I care about how it is done but of course his main emphasis is meeting deadlines. I guess I just have to self teach while getting stuff done. Thank you for your advise!
Good for you on pursuing licensure.
I did not know you had finished IDP. I would like to amend my comments.
You have a stable work environment and a steady paycheck and benefits. I would recommend you take and finish the ARE before you leave.
Get out soon before it becomes a dead end.... however, if you want to transition to a more design focused firm learn the tricks of the trade from your current office for other non design related tasks; marketing, production, office management etc ( assuming the office actually has some good qualities) many design firms are good at designing but the lack the production skills and marketing to lift them from being anything more that a small little boutique design firm. Sometimes good young design offices need to find more experienced staff to actually manage the office and "get shit done".
Worth thinking about what you can learn from each work experience.
hotissue-
you should look at your current situation and think about what it might teach you. you are early in your professional career, so use this experience to absorb as much information as possible, and enjoy! learn from the stressed out PM who's responsible for the project.
@whistler
Thank you for your advice. Surprisingly, this firm has about 36 people (architects + civil engineers + landscape + site development + MEP + structural) and only one person can do photoshop! I started helping the guy with photoshop so hopefully it will help me add few elevations in my portfolio although it is not the best design in the world. I thought that having this company's name on my resume will help me since it seemed like a really big company (not to mention their crazy website) but all I will be working on is a franchise fast-food and gas stations . Since I can't really leave yet, I agree with you that there HAS to be something valuable I can gain from this experience.
@arch76
Thank you! I am trying to gain the most out of it. This job experience can't hurt me, right? I am currently working with my job captain because my PM works remote.. Not to mention, my studio director already thinks that I am smarter than my job captain and believes I can work on a project by myself within a year.
Hot issue:
Similar situations... It sounds like you have an opportunity to strengthen the areas of your drawings that you would like to improve, so that's good. If you feel out the opportunity, you could bring up to a mentor or your director that you do want to be a well-rounded architect there, and pursue chances to be exposed to all that you can in the firm. For instance, if they are so client-driven, can you tag along in meetings and take notes? Could you suggest standard development, to make everyone's lives easier?
I find that, often times, it is about the little things. If you're drawing a lot, then try to make one great drawing at least once a day. You know what I mean? A drawing that communicates really well, or even a sheet that reads beautifully and clear. I get energy from drawing like that when I"m constantly on CDs. Hopefully you'll find some too. Best of luck!
all but a few people in this profession get to be the designers exclusively. CD or production as it is sometimes called, is an essential task and has in many little ways design opportunities. I think if you want to be a designer you have to be a lot more experienced or come into an office with a client or two in your pocket.
The design opportunists that do come at you early in your career will be in little increments. If you miss them, or phone it in, because figuring out the door configuration on a toilet room is beneath you, the people in charge will not be so generous with other design opportunists in the future.
Over and OUT
Peter N
Complete the ARE as fast as possible and then get another job.
If you don't like working there I would leave as soon as you can. When you interview at other firms you will be interviewing with people. They will understand if you explain to them why you didn't stay very long there. At least I would. In fact I would probably respect you more if you didn't stick around at a shitty firm. I don't like hiring people who spend years working at offices or on projects that they don't love as they develop a beat down attitude and I only want people who are excited about architecture working with me.
Production is design - don't kid yourself - I do more design in DD than SD - I mean when someone hands you a project at 100% SD, its very seldom totally resolved and here is where the real design opportunities are
Please dont listen to the people trying to make you feel good about your situation. There is plenty of work around, so get the f out as soon as you can. You can finish the ARE when at another firm too.
and oh yes, the wrong experience WILL hurt your resume, and you might find yourself doing many other dead end jobs.
Have to second Xenakis' post- production from SD wrap to CD's is critical experience. I can sympathize with the work not being particularly exciting (okay, gas stations and fast-food don't really even meet that description), but there is definite value in mastering production drawings for those projects. Seek out another opportunity that has more appeal, and in the meantime learn all you can about those project types (ie: you might not encounter much food service exp elsewhere). There's nothing at all wrong with seeking something better.
However, no matter where you end up you will inevitably do your time in production; be wary of falling into the trap of forming an expectation of becoming a "designer" without absorbing the knowledge that only years of exposure to the process brings. That doesn't exclude involvement in the formative design that occurs at project start, and a better firm exposes more junior members to these facets of our profession early and often because they lead to more well rounded staff.
In a more general sense (ie: not directly related to your predicament) passing the ARE doesn't bring that knowledge on its own. More and more often my peers are seeing new hires that have very unrealistic expectations based on licensing and are becoming more wary of these attitudes when interviewing. Speak positively of your current position, and when you find a better opportunity go for it; very few of us found a good fit before we'd moved through several firms.
Unfortunately architecture is a buisness and these types of projects pay the bills. One of the bills being you. While I understand these types of projects are mundane someone has to do them, if we pass these off to builders who honestly could probably do them without much issue we would be one step closer to obsolete. We aren't all wonderful designers, it's just possible you are where you belong.