Been reading about Bernie and income inequality, pretty interesting stuff.
Apparently 30% of households survive on less than 30k a year? We're in the 20th percentile, which makes me fairly happy that my effective tax rate was about 12%, and makes me think that maybe it's good that my wife is part-time.
Apparently many people would consider it very fair for us to pay far more in taxes than we do now. I guess that real take away is that most of us here should prob be a little less vocal about being "under paid," so many are far worse off....
I really can't get over the 30% under 30k though, how do people survive? underground/untaxed income?
,,,,
Apr 18, 16 2:58 pm
In my opinion, it is the 1099 economy that is the basis for the anger fueling the Sanders and Trump campaigns.
Raising the minimum wage would partly offset the 30% taxes, no health insurance, no sick days, no holidays. Trump's stand on not raising the minimum wage makes no sense in economic terms for the working poor.
Non Sequitur
Apr 18, 16 3:04 pm
american politics are entertaining.
Carrera
Apr 18, 16 3:57 pm
American Capitalism is no place for sissy’s…hit me right after high school when I got my wish to be “free” only to realize soon after that I was out there on my own with no instruction book.
Believed my whole career that anybody could “make it” in this country if they would just apply themselves, even stupid me made it, but the longer I live the more I realize that I never knew what stupid really was. Ron White said “you can’t fix stupid” and he’s right.
The Government thought they could fix stupid by shipping all the factory jobs to Mexico & China…and send everyone to readjustment camps (2 year schools) so to learn how to fix Xerox machines…and it has backfired…don’t think it’s time for Bernie, but its past time to begin bringing manufacturing jobs back home so to at least supply our base consumption….otherwise we will feel the “Bern”.
b3tadine[sutures]
Apr 18, 16 4:06 pm
So long as we enjoy our things, and our bananas and pineapples, we'll never do what's best for us.
bowling_ball
Apr 18, 16 11:12 pm
shuellmi, correct me if I'm wrong but what I think you're saying is that you're in the top 20%, not 20th percentile.
Anyway I often feel that we're very underpaid for the complexity of services we deliver. And I come from a very blue collar background, where money doesn't come easy and you work for every dollar without complaint, because "nobody owes us anything." Even still, competition amongst ourselves has really fucked a lot of us out of a respectable wage (ie enough to retire on).
awaiting_deletion
Apr 19, 16 7:22 am
architecture isn't a career you retire from for many reasons 1) its not really phyicically demanding or taxing like say a Steel worker or Police officer 2) its fun at times 3) retirement is imaginary and was enjoyed and destroyed by the baby boomers. Count on no retirement.
shellarchitect
Apr 19, 16 9:12 am
bb - your right, top 20% = 80th percentile.
I agree that compensation for value seems low, at least in our minds, but I'm not sure why. After all, there are tons of realtors, with a low entry barrier, yet they seem to have no problem getting a 3% commission.
Has anyone looked at deferred payment? Design a building for a super low price, but then get a percentage upon the eventual sale? Maybe the percentage changes depending on the time period, 3% in one year, 20% in 20 years? Just a thought as I wait for the plotter here....
bowling_ball
Apr 19, 16 8:03 pm
ODN and shuellmi, The entire reason I chose this profession was to avoid the same back breaking labour that's destroyed my dad's body. And he's good at what he does, but he has a high school education and doesn't manage teams of people on multi-million dollar projects. And we make about the same salary.
Adjusted for inflation, his first job out of high school paid more than mine, after my masters degree. He had no college debt and bought his first house at 28, with 2 kids and a student wife, for one quarter of the price I paid for mine (adjusted for inflation).
I don't begrudge anybody earning more than me, but I know how hard I work, what my responsibilities are, and you can't tell me that I shouldn't find all of the above incredibly frustrating.
Whoever convinced you that you shouldn't be able to retire after working for 35 or 40 years as a professional can go fuck themselves. And you shouldn't listen to that nonsense, it's harmful to everybody.
awaiting_deletion
Apr 20, 16 6:59 am
i should go fuck myself then. If the entire purpose of working for 35 to 40 years is to retire then why choose a low paying job? become a number cruncher and cash out early, and then what?...............Oscar Niemeyer was doodling into his 100's. Gehry was considered young at 50 and started killing it after retirement age...........the anti-trust against our pro organizations vs labor unions remaining in place and in general American business shitting on its own have alllowed the differences between you and your dad's path.........back in the day, say in Farm county, there was no retirement, you worked the land or you died essentially. if you were too old to be productive you sat on the front porch in a rocking chair until you died..... this idea that you have to choose a career that will let you quit the career is fundamentally assinine when it comes to work that will not kill you - like architecture. Not that anyone would probably choose Accounting as a life long existence, but its the same theory............the entire financial structure of the retirement fund racket is to give the already wealthy (who never retire) more money to play with. in the mid 90's Mutual Fund capital started to rise and went way up (due to new group of funders - working middle class) and then when the crash came - all those people slaving away at jobs they did not like lost their back up - they had the prospect of having to continue to work at something they did not like. retirement is a massive illusion that is a nice mechanism for population control.
Non Sequitur
Apr 20, 16 8:28 am
Retirement? I keep hearing that word but I'm not sure I know what it means.
Been reading about Bernie and income inequality, pretty interesting stuff.
Apparently 30% of households survive on less than 30k a year? We're in the 20th percentile, which makes me fairly happy that my effective tax rate was about 12%, and makes me think that maybe it's good that my wife is part-time.
Apparently many people would consider it very fair for us to pay far more in taxes than we do now. I guess that real take away is that most of us here should prob be a little less vocal about being "under paid," so many are far worse off....
I really can't get over the 30% under 30k though, how do people survive? underground/untaxed income?
In my opinion, it is the 1099 economy that is the basis for the anger fueling the Sanders and Trump campaigns.
Raising the minimum wage would partly offset the 30% taxes, no health insurance, no sick days, no holidays. Trump's stand on not raising the minimum wage makes no sense in economic terms for the working poor.
american politics are entertaining.
American Capitalism is no place for sissy’s…hit me right after high school when I got my wish to be “free” only to realize soon after that I was out there on my own with no instruction book.
Believed my whole career that anybody could “make it” in this country if they would just apply themselves, even stupid me made it, but the longer I live the more I realize that I never knew what stupid really was. Ron White said “you can’t fix stupid” and he’s right.
The Government thought they could fix stupid by shipping all the factory jobs to Mexico & China…and send everyone to readjustment camps (2 year schools) so to learn how to fix Xerox machines…and it has backfired…don’t think it’s time for Bernie, but its past time to begin bringing manufacturing jobs back home so to at least supply our base consumption….otherwise we will feel the “Bern”.
So long as we enjoy our things, and our bananas and pineapples, we'll never do what's best for us.
shuellmi, correct me if I'm wrong but what I think you're saying is that you're in the top 20%, not 20th percentile.
Anyway I often feel that we're very underpaid for the complexity of services we deliver. And I come from a very blue collar background, where money doesn't come easy and you work for every dollar without complaint, because "nobody owes us anything." Even still, competition amongst ourselves has really fucked a lot of us out of a respectable wage (ie enough to retire on).
architecture isn't a career you retire from for many reasons 1) its not really phyicically demanding or taxing like say a Steel worker or Police officer 2) its fun at times 3) retirement is imaginary and was enjoyed and destroyed by the baby boomers. Count on no retirement.
bb - your right, top 20% = 80th percentile.
I agree that compensation for value seems low, at least in our minds, but I'm not sure why. After all, there are tons of realtors, with a low entry barrier, yet they seem to have no problem getting a 3% commission.
Has anyone looked at deferred payment? Design a building for a super low price, but then get a percentage upon the eventual sale? Maybe the percentage changes depending on the time period, 3% in one year, 20% in 20 years? Just a thought as I wait for the plotter here....
ODN and shuellmi, The entire reason I chose this profession was to avoid the same back breaking labour that's destroyed my dad's body. And he's good at what he does, but he has a high school education and doesn't manage teams of people on multi-million dollar projects. And we make about the same salary.
Adjusted for inflation, his first job out of high school paid more than mine, after my masters degree. He had no college debt and bought his first house at 28, with 2 kids and a student wife, for one quarter of the price I paid for mine (adjusted for inflation).
I don't begrudge anybody earning more than me, but I know how hard I work, what my responsibilities are, and you can't tell me that I shouldn't find all of the above incredibly frustrating.
Whoever convinced you that you shouldn't be able to retire after working for 35 or 40 years as a professional can go fuck themselves. And you shouldn't listen to that nonsense, it's harmful to everybody.
i should go fuck myself then. If the entire purpose of working for 35 to 40 years is to retire then why choose a low paying job? become a number cruncher and cash out early, and then what?...............Oscar Niemeyer was doodling into his 100's. Gehry was considered young at 50 and started killing it after retirement age...........the anti-trust against our pro organizations vs labor unions remaining in place and in general American business shitting on its own have alllowed the differences between you and your dad's path.........back in the day, say in Farm county, there was no retirement, you worked the land or you died essentially. if you were too old to be productive you sat on the front porch in a rocking chair until you died..... this idea that you have to choose a career that will let you quit the career is fundamentally assinine when it comes to work that will not kill you - like architecture. Not that anyone would probably choose Accounting as a life long existence, but its the same theory............the entire financial structure of the retirement fund racket is to give the already wealthy (who never retire) more money to play with. in the mid 90's Mutual Fund capital started to rise and went way up (due to new group of funders - working middle class) and then when the crash came - all those people slaving away at jobs they did not like lost their back up - they had the prospect of having to continue to work at something they did not like. retirement is a massive illusion that is a nice mechanism for population control.
Retirement? I keep hearing that word but I'm not sure I know what it means.