I was supposed to pin up today, but for some reasons, I had failed to do so. And now my instructor had sent me an e-mail stating that I had failed the course due to exceeding the allowable number of unexcused absences. There was no syllabus for the course, so we do not know the number of unexcused absences, and I think I had missed four classes in total. We have a final presentation, coming up in two weeks. Do you have any thought?
accesskb
Apr 16, 16 6:37 am
Unless you had a medical reason or some other valid reason, you don't seem mature/responsible enough for Masters. I can understand missing one class but four MArch classes? Most profs can let absences slide if you communicate with them and have the work completed for reviews/submissions. You don't even have that! Do you expect a free grade? Seriously, drop out..
b3tadine[sutures]
Apr 16, 16 7:03 am
was this a final pin-up? were you warned you were in danger of failing? if the answer to first question was yes, skip the second question; that is a fail in my book. you could talk to your dean of students, and plead your case. however, i'd ask myself this very simple question; did the effort reflect the grade received? the answer should be self-evident. it's not the end of the world.
Non Sequitur
Apr 16, 16 8:39 am
They fail students today? I'm very happy to hear that.
x-jla
Apr 16, 16 9:26 am
How can someone miss a pin up? That's something normal students stress about into the wee hours of morning. Even if you weren't finished, pin up what you have...I'm willing to bet that the ops school is being paid for by mommy and daddy.
archiwutm8
Apr 16, 16 9:52 am
Is easy to pass judgement when you have 5 lines about a situation. Judgemental AF.
x-jla
Apr 16, 16 11:20 am
"I had failed to do so for some reasons"
What reasons? If there was a good reason like illness, family emergency, etc, the professor would likely excuse it.
BulgarBlogger
Apr 16, 16 11:32 am
If you fail thesis, even if down the road, you can pass the ARE, you are a mediocre architect who should never be allowed to practice. The same amount of care you put into your thesis will manifest itself in the care you put into your professional design work and will therefore most likely result in your production of endless shit for the next 60-70 years. Unless you had some terrible illness or family emergency, shame on you for failing your Thesis. No sympathy here.
citizen
Apr 16, 16 11:40 am
One of the more frustrating situations in teaching is when a student seems to disappear or partially disappear without explanation. If I get the chance to see them and ask what's going on, I do. More often, it's just a huge question mark until I send a similar email (i.e., "you're likely not going to pass due to many absences, missing work," etc.), all of a sudden I hear from them or they appear in class the next time. Often it's too late to catch up.
It's so much better to reach out and communicate with the instructor. A face-to-face is always best, but even an email is better than silence. Yes, it can be a little scary. But in a master's program, you're all adults and young professionals. Expectations are justifiably higher.
Maybe something can be worked out, maybe not; it depends on the situation. But silence is deadly.
Dangermouse
Apr 16, 16 11:43 am
>I think I had missed four classes in total
Most studio classes I've taken have a three absence threshold before you fail.
>for some reasons
If that's all you've got, then you should fail.
Bloopox
Apr 16, 16 1:21 pm
Most universities have absence policies - in which case it's usually out of the faculties' hands. In the places I've taught they've all had a policy of 2 missed classes means a warning and a trip to discuss it with the department chair, and 3 missed classes is an automatic fail, regardless of whether the student's work is stunning or not - unless the student could document a medical problem or some other serious hardship.
When I was in architecture school (20+ years ago) the policy regarding pin-ups was that missing even one meant automatic failure unless we were hospitalized or had a death in the immediate family. And with a thesis project - that would have been pretty much unheard of. Usually if a student had some issue that was serious enough to miss any of thesis they were strongly encouraged to take a year's leave of absence.
If I were you I'd go talk to the department chair or whoever is in charge of student academic affairs in your department. I had one occasion a few years ago where I followed the university's policy and failed a student who skipped several classes, and then the student appealed the grade and was granted the change to bring in all of her semester's work and present it to a committee of the Chair, Associate Dean, me, and one other faculty member. That resulted in 2 votes of "F" and 2 in favor of a "D", so they gave her the D and let her move on to the next year. That was an undergrad though, and many grad programs don't even have a grade of D, so... I hope you have a good story and some stellar work.
Apr 16, 16 1:49 pm
2014March,
Were you absent on the very first day of class? That is when those things are typically covered. Regardless of a syllabus.
Does the course have a website as that may in effect be the syllabus.
Unless you had a death in the immediate family which there would be a documentation proof or you were in the hospital (doctor attesting to it) or was in court as witness or jury.... I don't think you can argue a valid defense for just skipping class for personal reasons.
Getting your ass thrown in jail doesn't count as valid under most circumstances either.
I think I covered most reasons you can'y get to class. It's better to be late than absent.
So what the problem is?
awaiting_deletion
Apr 16, 16 2:07 pm
read your own post until it is clear why you failed
Apr 16, 16 2:27 pm
"Unless you had a medical reason or some other valid reason, you don't seem mature/responsible enough for Masters. I can understand missing one class but four MArch classes? Most profs can let absences slide if you communicate with them and have the work completed for reviews/submissions. You don't even have that! Do you expect a free grade? Seriously, drop out.. "
I agree except the person having 4 UNEXCUSABLE absences of class is irresponsible for ANY post-secondary education.
There is various circumstances that can be deemed excusable but circumstances that are under one's control and ability to schedule is not excusable in most circumstances and is irresponsible.
That's how I see it.
For some reason, I see the OP as not mature or responsible enough for any post-secondary certificates or degrees from a 1-yr undergraduate certificate from a community college to a Doctoral degree. OP, you're an adult, act like it. Stop acting less mature than a pre-teen.
Apr 16, 16 2:28 pm
Olaf,
just so you know, I was rarely absent or late to classes. I hope you were replying to the OP.
awaiting_deletion
Apr 16, 16 2:29 pm
OP
Apr 16, 16 2:30 pm
thanks.
Zaina
Apr 16, 16 3:03 pm
Oh dear.. that's scary! can't you re-do it the following year?
Flatfish
Apr 16, 16 4:40 pm
I remember you previously asking for advice on choosing Michigan vs. USC. At which did you end up? Or did you go somewhere else?
If you ended up at USC the attendance policy is standardized for the whole architecture school - a certain number of missed classes always knocks you down each letter grade. Faculty do have the option to have stricter policies but then they are supposed to issue them somewhere in writing.
If you ended up at Michigan the faculty have leeway to decide what is an "excessive" number of missed classes, but you can appeal to the Dean. The policy is that if the professor decides you've missed too many classes - however many that is is up to them - then you get an unofficial drop for the course (an "ED") and have to retake it. In that sense you may be better off not arguing with the faculty - because if you get an ED you don't fail in the sense that an F is calculated into your GPA, though you do fail in the sense that you end up paying tuition and not entering the working world for another year, or dropping out without a degree. If you convince the faculty to let you continue in the course this semester and then you fail at the end anyway, then all the same things will happen but you'll also have the F on your academic record and figured into your GPA. Personally I'd take the ED, and then maybe take a year off to get my shit together and earn some money, and then come back in a year or two and finish the degree.
I've seen students wriggle out of these things by getting a diagnosis of depression or anxiety, getting on medication, and then involving student life or student health or the disability office or whoever that university has who is paid to take your side of things, to intervene and explain your temporary illness. Of course this is a sleazy route to take if it's not legitimate - but I don't know you so who knows, maybe it actually is the mysterious reason for your class skipping.
archiwutm8
Apr 16, 16 4:50 pm
In American schools you can fail just by missing classes? shit thats harsh.
Flatfish
Apr 16, 16 4:58 pm
The policies are usually more set in stone for undergrads but in some ways more lenient: it usually takes 3 or 4 or more missed classes to be automatically dropped from the class, depending on the university's policy. With grad programs students are expected to be more mature and professional and able to manage their time, and profs sometimes have more free reign to set their own rules, so sometimes there isn't an official number of missed classes that automatically fails you - but on the other hand missing something like a pin up or a test in grad school can be grounds for failure on its own. I remember being told on the first day of a studio "if you miss a crit and you're not in the hospital don't bother coming back except to pack your things."
Apr 16, 16 6:55 pm
5839,
Having taken courses that are built around grad school, I have no disagreement with the above and what you are saying. Missing critical things like a crit or key exams, where it may or may not always lead to an absolute fail, it can make a huge impact on grade plus a letter grade drop per unexcused absence that I have had classes with that policy. 5th time and it's an F. If one was a mid-term exam or (crit for studio / studio-like courses) final exam, it really hurts as the exams or mid-term/final (exam or presentation) can account for 1/2 the course grade. Even if it was evenly split.... the mid-term and final exam/presentation & crit can be 25% of the course grade each. So missing one of them can amount from an A+ (100%) to a mid-C (75%) alone without a letter grade drop. Even if the rest of the grades were absolute perfect, you can be down to a middle D. Grade percentage below 60% is an F. In short, you can be in bad shape really quick.
You can be down to an F really quick. So it can be a failure of class.
Everything said sounds about right.
Seminar classes or weekend workshops that I took in some of my classes would amount to an F if I missed class even once even at community college. In the U.S., you are seen as an adult and it is your responsibility to fulfill your duties as a student. It's your money, after all. You can waste time & money or you can do what you need to do. It's your choice but choice comes with responsibility and acceptance of the consequences for good or for bad. Whatever it is.
awaiting_deletion
Apr 16, 16 6:59 pm
in germany lectures were optional. just pass the exam.
Apr 16, 16 7:03 pm
Olaf,
It can be that way even in the U.S.
It depends on the courses courses.
awaiting_deletion
Apr 16, 16 7:08 pm
unmoglich. ....sure you are not a bot bot
no_form
Apr 16, 16 7:14 pm
ricky b never fails classes! he just doesn't finish them! keep winning! ain't nobody gonna hold you back!
,,,,
Apr 16, 16 7:24 pm
I do not understand how mandatory attendance is treating students as adults. I think it is just the opposite.
JBeaumont
Apr 16, 16 7:51 pm
In grad school there were some classes where passing the exam or turning in all the assignments by the last day of the semester was all that mattered - some of those were Structures, Project Management, and Systems (HVAC, lighting, elevators, etc.) I skipped all the classes in a whole topic of Systems 2 except the one where a project was due, and since the course had a different prof for every 4-week topic he was kind of surprised to see me since he'd never met me before! But studios and anything else with models or visual work (Materials, Drawing, Lighting Design) were pretty much show up or die. We got that first day warning about there being 3 places to be: in the presentation, in the hospital, or in the ground.
Ricky I'm afraid to ask but have to know: what is a course "built around grad school"? Is that a course in an accredited masters program, in a university, with students pursuing master degrees? Or is that something that a washed up professor told you to make you and himself feel better about community college?
,,,,
Apr 16, 16 8:13 pm
When I was in grad school 40 years ago, there was no need for mandatory attendance. It never occurred to any of us not to show up.
School certainly has changed in the intervening years. No wonder so many students come here and can not seem to make even simple decisions.
Oh well, it makes for a compliant work force.
Bloopox
Apr 16, 16 8:20 pm
I can see either side of the "treating students like adults" argument - if they're adults they should be able to manage their time to show up, vs. if they're adults they should have the freedom not to show up.
When teaching I've not had much flexibility in this. The minimum attendance policies are university-wide. I've had the option to enforce stricter policies, but not to disregard tracking attendance. It may be that some faculty just don't track, and report everyone as present all the time. I don't know.
And yes, it may indeed ensure a compliant workforce - and shake out the ones who aren't going to put up with that - and that's probably in their best interest. While there are different kinds of firms for different kinds of people, in the majority of firms one does not have the option to just not show up to work except when things are due, especially in the early years. It can be argued that that should be an option, and there are firms that are more lenient in that regard, and if the no-show students all manage to find those jobs then good for them. Being a regular on this forum for several years I've seen that many of the same students who think they shouldn't have to show up for class - or follow whatever rules they disagree with or get their applications in on time or make their portfolio the right size - are the same students who become obsessed with working for certain starchitect firms that, I can tell you from experience, have the most byzantine rules and regulations and aren't going to put up with people who don't show up at 8:30 and bill their target hours per week and show up for office meetings and remedial all-office training on door schedules. Then when they do get those jobs they're back here 4 months later complaining that they don't have enough flexibility, aren't appreciated for their brilliance, don't like being supervised, and so on. So I'm leaning toward: if these attendance rules can scare off some of those people who aren't suited for the career they think they want before they get there, so much the better. Better that they flunk out and save the tuition now than go into debt for a profession in which they become disillusioned in 4 months.
,,,,
Apr 16, 16 8:34 pm
I understand that this may well be beyond the instructor's control.
I did not mean do not show up to work on time. Missing appointments, interviews etc. is unprofessional.
In school however, how are students going to advance if they are scared shitless?
Apr 16, 16 8:37 pm
JBeaumont,
Is that a course in an accredited masters program, in a university, with students pursuing master degrees?
Yes, I was referring to the historic preservation courses at UO that were built primarily for a Master degree program. The course curriculum is built around the dominant student base in the program who are taking the master's degree major. Therefore, the course curriculum and requirements are geared towards those students.
Given that I had taken historic preservation courses at both the community college and the University of Oregon, I think it might be challenging for you to keep the distinction in your head. You claim the professor at the community college is a washed up professor.... on what grounds?
JBeaumont
Apr 16, 16 9:45 pm
Rick I didn't make any claims about any particular teachers. Community college positions are often the last resort for those who haven't made the cut at universities and 4-year colleges, or have been forced out for various reasons - ranging from the usual publish-or-perish system to being the subject of investigations and scandals. Once someone's been washed out of one university, particularly for anything unsavory, other universities can be reluctant to touch them, but community colleges unfortunately don't have the budgets to be that selective. Also community colleges are famous for trying to write their course descriptions and syllabi into fluffy confections better than the course content, and passing off the same course as a progressively more advanced series of courses leading to some sort of certificate. Sometimes you see students' transcripts that list 4 or 5 courses with the same professor, with all different names and descriptions - but if you press the school for the assignments and reading you find out the student basically took the same class four times.
A few years ago there was a bit of a scandal at one of our local community colleges when a group of faculty who were living in campers on campus were charged with indecent exposure because they were bathing in a wading pool in the parking lot (quite literally washed up professors!) Apparently it's not unusual for faculty to live in community college parking lots - unfortunately ours doesn't have a gym, so no indoor showers for the parking lot denizens. It's not that homeless teachers are necessarily bad teachers - but it does kind of undermine the idea that these are people who can teach what you need to know to have a viable career, don't you think?
b3tadine[sutures]
Apr 16, 16 10:18 pm
You know that smell of shit that clings to the bottom of your Keds, despite the bleach bath, that's what this thread is like when good ole R-B enters.
no_form
Apr 16, 16 11:57 pm
Balkins learn these fools something. You've earned your tenure here. Ricky b takes archinect to class every day. Cmon professor!
Apr 17, 16 12:30 am
JBeaumont,
Fine but you should recognize how you implied an accusational claim. Reality isn't as black & white as you think.
Rick I didn't make any claims about any particular teachers. Community college positions are often the last resort for those who haven't made the cut at universities and 4-year colleges, or have been forced out for various reasons - ranging from the usual publish-or-perish system to being the subject of investigations and scandals. Once someone's been washed out of one university, particularly for anything unsavory, other universities can be reluctant to touch them, but community colleges unfortunately don't have the budgets to be that selective. Also community colleges are famous for trying to write their course descriptions and syllabi into fluffy confections better than the course content, and passing off the same course as a progressively more advanced series of courses leading to some sort of certificate. Sometimes you see students' transcripts that list 4 or 5 courses with the same professor, with all different names and descriptions - but if you press the school for the assignments and reading you find out the student basically took the same class four times.
That's stereotyping community colleges. Some people have chosen community colleges. It could simply be about where they chose to live. You should also realize even in universities that courses often carry a lot of the same content reiterated in multiple classes even when taught by different instructors. Sometimes you have a course sequence taught by highly knowledged and skilled instructors. In Art, I had classes from the artist Royal Nebeker for the sequence of Art Basic Design courses. In History, I had History of Western Civilizations sequence from John D. Hauser. I had a drawing course from James K. Russell (then-retired Art Professor of Boise State University... who took on an adjunct instructor role.)
Some of you may very well have known who I am talking about if you took art classes from Boise State University between 1969/1970 and 1995/1996. Clatsop Community College doesn't just pick anyone they can afford. We tend to have high quality instructors. This notion make is a bit skewed and even disrespectful without knowing who these people are.
Regarding your comment about course descriptions being fluffery confections as you say. Course descriptions are typically short descriptions. As for syllabi, that is outlined by each instructor. From my experience, each course was more or less unique.
When you say the courses are the same, I say, that isn't the case so simply. You say community colleges are famous for doing this fluffery crap but you, while there is incidental cases in community colleges, they also occur at universities and other post-secondary institutions. This isn't just community education courses a person may take for non-credit. Accredited for-credit courses are under the same accreditation rules and guidelines as the Universities. Even non-transfer degrees follow basic academic standards. It's not like what you are saying.
Yes, some courses requires you to work on different kinds of assignments like learning how to use CAD. Yes, it may take 2-3 courses to get proficient. Yes, it may sound like doing the same stuff over and over. It's not. Nor is taking three courses in Art drawing. You are doing different things. When you take something across... say 2 years... or 6 courses of art drawing, the second year, you maybe doing additional things at a more advance level because it's expected that the skill and degree of complexity will increase. Developing hand and eye coordination. It's not like you will necessarily have the same nude model in the exact same pose for drawing human figure. It's like saying you are doing the same thing in each architecture studio course from basic introductory level architecture studio to intermediate and to advance level. You are expected to develop and grow your skills. Is development of skill from scribble to a finer drawing or drafting skills a bad thing?
I can even tell you that each workshop class I taken at the community college is a unique experience. Often involving a different building and refinement of skill. So if I replace glazing or re-roping the windows in one may seem like repetition on every building or project but also you are refining your understanding, developing a skill that you have to do with a degree of repetition to not only do better but also understanding. Even new circumstances. Different type of windows. But 1 cr or 2cr workshops are naturally intended to be sort of 'repeated' but not really as it is a new project or otherwise you are advancing it. It isn't exactly repeat but some things maybe the same in generalities but also different but a hands-on craft requires hours to refine and develop skills that even in 11 hours, you just can't get it all. If you looked closely on the courses, they are different. If I took a window workshop course, it just might be different than one I took before. Think about it. It's "field-school" through the workshops. Universities have courses similar to that as well.
A few years ago there was a bit of a scandal at one of our local community colleges when a group of faculty who were living in campers on campus were charged with indecent exposure because they were bathing in a wading pool in the parking lot (quite literally washed up professors!) Apparently it's not unusual for faculty to live in community college parking lots - unfortunately ours doesn't have a gym, so no indoor showers for the parking lot denizens. It's not that homeless teachers are necessarily bad teachers - but it does kind of undermine the idea that these are people who can teach what you need to know to have a viable career, don't you think?
Just because your local community colleges have this issue doesn't mean that is really the norm. I have been on campus at my community college even to the literal closing time for the day as I had night classes. At 10pm, there is pretty much no one parking on campus. I have never seen that kind of issue on campus. We don't have people living on campus. Especially instructors. You realize that the instructors we have usually make a livable salary to live in a modest house or even an apartment if they are full-time instructors. If they are adjuncts, they usually have a job or business and work in field that they maybe teaching or otherwise have education in.
Right now, we don't have a gym facility on campus (while that is currently being done at off-campus locations... as Patriot Hall Redevelopment project continues. Even then, our instructors are typically classier than to degrade themselves in the manner that you described at your community college.
I think your view on community colleges are a bit skewed based on the kind of stuff you are saying. We have police patrol that does route through the campus periodically.
Regarding your question in the example you given, I do agree with you, in that in the example you have given, it would undermine confidence. However, I also take recognition that your view is skewed by rather uncommon incidents that isn't that way everywhere.
x-jla
Apr 17, 16 12:45 am
^This fucking guy.
JBeaumont
Apr 17, 16 12:45 am
I'm not stereotyping - I'm telling you the facts about how community colleges get their faculty. If you'd done your research on your own examples of supposed quality faculty you would have realized you're only supporting exactly what I told you. Of the three you mentioned, one landed at your college after a criminal conviction and another landed there after a no confidence vote ended his administrative appointment elsewhere. The third was much maligned in his profession, so stopped practicing and started teaching. The best time to have done that research would have been before you spent 10 years in community college. Maybe you would have spent your time better so you wouldn't need to be so defensive now.
How does one acquire 14 years of higher education and still think "I taken", "you given", "I seen", "I been", and other similar constructions are English? "May be" are always two separate words when they mean something may be the case. You claim to have an education but you write like the 6 year old child of folks who ain't had no book learnin'. So much for community college.
LITS4FormZ
Apr 17, 16 1:05 am
Feel free to pile on but I don't think the OP is coming back...
Fivescore
Apr 17, 16 1:35 am
This OP never participates in his own threads but it's apparent he reads the responses.
no_form
Apr 17, 16 2:13 am
Class dismissed! Professor Balkins has failed all of you! Better luck next time archinect! Thank you for the lesson Ricky b!
Fivescore
Apr 17, 16 2:20 am
Yes no_form. I'm certainly enlightened by the knowledge that Catslap Community College has (had?) a real live professor who previously taught at Forbes' 617th ranked college in an art department that cracked the top 1000 once in the 1980s. Get that on your LinkedIn profile Rick.
no_form
Apr 17, 16 2:40 am
Oh no you didn't threesleeve!
"See the sad thing about a guy like you, is in about 50 years you’re gonna start doin' some thinkin' on your own and you’re gonna come up with the fact that there are two certainties in life. One, don't do that. And two, you dropped a hundred and fifty grand on a fuckin’ education you coulda' got for a dollar fifty in late charges at the Public Library."-professor Balkins droppn' the hammmah!
Fivescore
Apr 17, 16 2:56 am
Uh huh. I'd buy that Balkins says he wrote that. Why not? He's been caught plagiarizing 100 times so what's one more. You have to attribute something that fits better though as he's 50k in student loan debt and doesn't like libraries.
no_form
Apr 17, 16 3:15 am
Ricky B don't let all these elitist 4 year + graduates get you down! CCC is going to make you dean one day! Just don't stop publishing on archinect! This place would rot without you!
Threesleeve Balkins just channels the intellect of the world's top scholars through his writing. And you're right, he prefers a robust collection of PDFs and YouTube tutorials over a collection of smelly dead trees any day.
Balkins is a 21st century man!
Apr 17, 16 3:51 am
Threesleeve,
Lets see, an internationally reknown artist and head of art department for 30+ years until he retired. Another instructor who was then a retired professor of a University. Both of whom are A) artists, B) experienced teaching art, and C) recognized in the art community.
Who the fuck are you?
Are you even worthy of having your art work displayed at the Art Paris Fair at the Louvre in Paris? Hell.... art galleries across the world?
When have you personally and solely responsible for a piece of architecture or art that is that worthy?
Apr 17, 16 5:28 am
I'm not stereotyping - I'm telling you the facts about how community colleges get their faculty. If you'd done your research on your own examples of supposed quality faculty you would have realized you're only supporting exactly what I told you. Of the three you mentioned, one landed at your college after a criminal conviction and another landed there after a no confidence vote ended his administrative appointment elsewhere. The third was much maligned in his profession, so stopped practicing and started teaching. The best time to have done that research would have been before you spent 10 years in community college. Maybe you would have spent your time better so you wouldn't need to be so defensive now.
Yes, you are stereotyping. You say they get their faculty that way. I say most colleges gets some of their faculty that way.... SOME OF THE TIMES. You are implying that they get ALL their faculty that way all the time. I know you are full of shit on that one and you fucking know it.
Of the three you mentioned, one landed at your college after a criminal conviction and another landed there after a no confidence vote ended his administrative appointment elsewhere. The third was much maligned in his profession, so stopped practicing and started teaching. The best time to have done that research would have been before you spent 10 years in community college.
LOL!
I mentioned three names: Dr. John David Hauser (Phd majoring in History & Philosophy), Royal Nebeker (Art professor) and James K. Russell (from Boise).
Back your source up, right here... right now.
You made some serious accusations with YOUR little cowboy google research which leads to an EPIC fail. At least two of your counts are flat out wrong. One of them is borderline libelous. The middle one is something that may not really matter. So what if the person isn't really an 'administrator' type. Some are good at teaching and art but not necessarily be an department head kind of person. What the hell does that have to do with anything?
How does one acquire 14 years of higher education and still think "I taken", "you given", "I seen", "I been", and other similar constructions are English? "May be" are always two separate words when they mean something may be the case. You claim to have an education but you write like the 6 year old child of folks who ain't had no book learnin'. So much for community college.
The Answer is simple: I don't GIVE A FLYING FUCK about writing in an academic / professional prose on an online 'pub'. This is a FUCKING FORUM, ASSHOLE. Why go through all that trouble when the average drunk here doesn't give a shit? They get the idea. I'm writing as the thoughts comes to mind.
It's a comment reply not a damn blog that I am writing or an online article, or an academic paper or a professional report. I would expect people to proofread that. As for off the cuff, on the fly conversation, fuck the formalities.
I'm not submitting my posts on this forum for academic papers.
midlander
Apr 17, 16 9:29 am
wait, why would you bleach bath your sneakers? wouldn't that ruin them?
Josh Mings
Apr 17, 16 9:47 am
Mr. Balkins, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent responses were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this thread is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
Knibb High Football Rules!
awaiting_deletion
Apr 17, 16 9:59 am
haha nice Josh
Non Sequitur
Apr 17, 16 10:30 am
Ricky Balkinarico, stick to posting pictures of shadows that look like boobs. It's literally the only thing you're good at.
I was supposed to pin up today, but for some reasons, I had failed to do so. And now my instructor had sent me an e-mail stating that I had failed the course due to exceeding the allowable number of unexcused absences. There was no syllabus for the course, so we do not know the number of unexcused absences, and I think I had missed four classes in total. We have a final presentation, coming up in two weeks. Do you have any thought?
Unless you had a medical reason or some other valid reason, you don't seem mature/responsible enough for Masters. I can understand missing one class but four MArch classes? Most profs can let absences slide if you communicate with them and have the work completed for reviews/submissions. You don't even have that! Do you expect a free grade? Seriously, drop out..
was this a final pin-up? were you warned you were in danger of failing? if the answer to first question was yes, skip the second question; that is a fail in my book. you could talk to your dean of students, and plead your case. however, i'd ask myself this very simple question; did the effort reflect the grade received? the answer should be self-evident. it's not the end of the world.
They fail students today? I'm very happy to hear that.
How can someone miss a pin up? That's something normal students stress about into the wee hours of morning. Even if you weren't finished, pin up what you have...I'm willing to bet that the ops school is being paid for by mommy and daddy.
Is easy to pass judgement when you have 5 lines about a situation. Judgemental AF.
"I had failed to do so for some reasons"
What reasons? If there was a good reason like illness, family emergency, etc, the professor would likely excuse it.
If you fail thesis, even if down the road, you can pass the ARE, you are a mediocre architect who should never be allowed to practice. The same amount of care you put into your thesis will manifest itself in the care you put into your professional design work and will therefore most likely result in your production of endless shit for the next 60-70 years. Unless you had some terrible illness or family emergency, shame on you for failing your Thesis. No sympathy here.
One of the more frustrating situations in teaching is when a student seems to disappear or partially disappear without explanation. If I get the chance to see them and ask what's going on, I do. More often, it's just a huge question mark until I send a similar email (i.e., "you're likely not going to pass due to many absences, missing work," etc.), all of a sudden I hear from them or they appear in class the next time. Often it's too late to catch up.
It's so much better to reach out and communicate with the instructor. A face-to-face is always best, but even an email is better than silence. Yes, it can be a little scary. But in a master's program, you're all adults and young professionals. Expectations are justifiably higher.
Maybe something can be worked out, maybe not; it depends on the situation. But silence is deadly.
>I think I had missed four classes in total
Most studio classes I've taken have a three absence threshold before you fail.
>for some reasons
If that's all you've got, then you should fail.
Most universities have absence policies - in which case it's usually out of the faculties' hands. In the places I've taught they've all had a policy of 2 missed classes means a warning and a trip to discuss it with the department chair, and 3 missed classes is an automatic fail, regardless of whether the student's work is stunning or not - unless the student could document a medical problem or some other serious hardship.
When I was in architecture school (20+ years ago) the policy regarding pin-ups was that missing even one meant automatic failure unless we were hospitalized or had a death in the immediate family. And with a thesis project - that would have been pretty much unheard of. Usually if a student had some issue that was serious enough to miss any of thesis they were strongly encouraged to take a year's leave of absence.
If I were you I'd go talk to the department chair or whoever is in charge of student academic affairs in your department. I had one occasion a few years ago where I followed the university's policy and failed a student who skipped several classes, and then the student appealed the grade and was granted the change to bring in all of her semester's work and present it to a committee of the Chair, Associate Dean, me, and one other faculty member. That resulted in 2 votes of "F" and 2 in favor of a "D", so they gave her the D and let her move on to the next year. That was an undergrad though, and many grad programs don't even have a grade of D, so... I hope you have a good story and some stellar work.
2014March,
Were you absent on the very first day of class? That is when those things are typically covered. Regardless of a syllabus.
Does the course have a website as that may in effect be the syllabus.
Unless you had a death in the immediate family which there would be a documentation proof or you were in the hospital (doctor attesting to it) or was in court as witness or jury.... I don't think you can argue a valid defense for just skipping class for personal reasons.
Getting your ass thrown in jail doesn't count as valid under most circumstances either.
I think I covered most reasons you can'y get to class. It's better to be late than absent.
So what the problem is?
read your own post until it is clear why you failed
"Unless you had a medical reason or some other valid reason, you don't seem mature/responsible enough for Masters. I can understand missing one class but four MArch classes? Most profs can let absences slide if you communicate with them and have the work completed for reviews/submissions. You don't even have that! Do you expect a free grade? Seriously, drop out.. "
I agree except the person having 4 UNEXCUSABLE absences of class is irresponsible for ANY post-secondary education.
There is various circumstances that can be deemed excusable but circumstances that are under one's control and ability to schedule is not excusable in most circumstances and is irresponsible.
That's how I see it.
For some reason, I see the OP as not mature or responsible enough for any post-secondary certificates or degrees from a 1-yr undergraduate certificate from a community college to a Doctoral degree. OP, you're an adult, act like it. Stop acting less mature than a pre-teen.
Olaf,
just so you know, I was rarely absent or late to classes. I hope you were replying to the OP.
OP
thanks.
Oh dear.. that's scary! can't you re-do it the following year?
I remember you previously asking for advice on choosing Michigan vs. USC. At which did you end up? Or did you go somewhere else?
If you ended up at USC the attendance policy is standardized for the whole architecture school - a certain number of missed classes always knocks you down each letter grade. Faculty do have the option to have stricter policies but then they are supposed to issue them somewhere in writing.
If you ended up at Michigan the faculty have leeway to decide what is an "excessive" number of missed classes, but you can appeal to the Dean. The policy is that if the professor decides you've missed too many classes - however many that is is up to them - then you get an unofficial drop for the course (an "ED") and have to retake it. In that sense you may be better off not arguing with the faculty - because if you get an ED you don't fail in the sense that an F is calculated into your GPA, though you do fail in the sense that you end up paying tuition and not entering the working world for another year, or dropping out without a degree. If you convince the faculty to let you continue in the course this semester and then you fail at the end anyway, then all the same things will happen but you'll also have the F on your academic record and figured into your GPA. Personally I'd take the ED, and then maybe take a year off to get my shit together and earn some money, and then come back in a year or two and finish the degree.
I've seen students wriggle out of these things by getting a diagnosis of depression or anxiety, getting on medication, and then involving student life or student health or the disability office or whoever that university has who is paid to take your side of things, to intervene and explain your temporary illness. Of course this is a sleazy route to take if it's not legitimate - but I don't know you so who knows, maybe it actually is the mysterious reason for your class skipping.
In American schools you can fail just by missing classes? shit thats harsh.
The policies are usually more set in stone for undergrads but in some ways more lenient: it usually takes 3 or 4 or more missed classes to be automatically dropped from the class, depending on the university's policy. With grad programs students are expected to be more mature and professional and able to manage their time, and profs sometimes have more free reign to set their own rules, so sometimes there isn't an official number of missed classes that automatically fails you - but on the other hand missing something like a pin up or a test in grad school can be grounds for failure on its own. I remember being told on the first day of a studio "if you miss a crit and you're not in the hospital don't bother coming back except to pack your things."
5839,
Having taken courses that are built around grad school, I have no disagreement with the above and what you are saying. Missing critical things like a crit or key exams, where it may or may not always lead to an absolute fail, it can make a huge impact on grade plus a letter grade drop per unexcused absence that I have had classes with that policy. 5th time and it's an F. If one was a mid-term exam or (crit for studio / studio-like courses) final exam, it really hurts as the exams or mid-term/final (exam or presentation) can account for 1/2 the course grade. Even if it was evenly split.... the mid-term and final exam/presentation & crit can be 25% of the course grade each. So missing one of them can amount from an A+ (100%) to a mid-C (75%) alone without a letter grade drop. Even if the rest of the grades were absolute perfect, you can be down to a middle D. Grade percentage below 60% is an F. In short, you can be in bad shape really quick.
You can be down to an F really quick. So it can be a failure of class.
Everything said sounds about right.
Seminar classes or weekend workshops that I took in some of my classes would amount to an F if I missed class even once even at community college. In the U.S., you are seen as an adult and it is your responsibility to fulfill your duties as a student. It's your money, after all. You can waste time & money or you can do what you need to do. It's your choice but choice comes with responsibility and acceptance of the consequences for good or for bad. Whatever it is.
in germany lectures were optional. just pass the exam.
Olaf,
It can be that way even in the U.S.
It depends on the courses courses.
unmoglich. ....sure you are not a bot bot
ricky b never fails classes! he just doesn't finish them! keep winning! ain't nobody gonna hold you back!
I do not understand how mandatory attendance is treating students as adults. I think it is just the opposite.
In grad school there were some classes where passing the exam or turning in all the assignments by the last day of the semester was all that mattered - some of those were Structures, Project Management, and Systems (HVAC, lighting, elevators, etc.) I skipped all the classes in a whole topic of Systems 2 except the one where a project was due, and since the course had a different prof for every 4-week topic he was kind of surprised to see me since he'd never met me before! But studios and anything else with models or visual work (Materials, Drawing, Lighting Design) were pretty much show up or die. We got that first day warning about there being 3 places to be: in the presentation, in the hospital, or in the ground.
Ricky I'm afraid to ask but have to know: what is a course "built around grad school"? Is that a course in an accredited masters program, in a university, with students pursuing master degrees? Or is that something that a washed up professor told you to make you and himself feel better about community college?
When I was in grad school 40 years ago, there was no need for mandatory attendance. It never occurred to any of us not to show up.
School certainly has changed in the intervening years. No wonder so many students come here and can not seem to make even simple decisions.
Oh well, it makes for a compliant work force.
I can see either side of the "treating students like adults" argument - if they're adults they should be able to manage their time to show up, vs. if they're adults they should have the freedom not to show up.
When teaching I've not had much flexibility in this. The minimum attendance policies are university-wide. I've had the option to enforce stricter policies, but not to disregard tracking attendance. It may be that some faculty just don't track, and report everyone as present all the time. I don't know.
And yes, it may indeed ensure a compliant workforce - and shake out the ones who aren't going to put up with that - and that's probably in their best interest. While there are different kinds of firms for different kinds of people, in the majority of firms one does not have the option to just not show up to work except when things are due, especially in the early years. It can be argued that that should be an option, and there are firms that are more lenient in that regard, and if the no-show students all manage to find those jobs then good for them. Being a regular on this forum for several years I've seen that many of the same students who think they shouldn't have to show up for class - or follow whatever rules they disagree with or get their applications in on time or make their portfolio the right size - are the same students who become obsessed with working for certain starchitect firms that, I can tell you from experience, have the most byzantine rules and regulations and aren't going to put up with people who don't show up at 8:30 and bill their target hours per week and show up for office meetings and remedial all-office training on door schedules. Then when they do get those jobs they're back here 4 months later complaining that they don't have enough flexibility, aren't appreciated for their brilliance, don't like being supervised, and so on. So I'm leaning toward: if these attendance rules can scare off some of those people who aren't suited for the career they think they want before they get there, so much the better. Better that they flunk out and save the tuition now than go into debt for a profession in which they become disillusioned in 4 months.
I understand that this may well be beyond the instructor's control.
I did not mean do not show up to work on time. Missing appointments, interviews etc. is unprofessional.
In school however, how are students going to advance if they are scared shitless?
JBeaumont,
Is that a course in an accredited masters program, in a university, with students pursuing master degrees?
Yes, I was referring to the historic preservation courses at UO that were built primarily for a Master degree program. The course curriculum is built around the dominant student base in the program who are taking the master's degree major. Therefore, the course curriculum and requirements are geared towards those students.
Given that I had taken historic preservation courses at both the community college and the University of Oregon, I think it might be challenging for you to keep the distinction in your head. You claim the professor at the community college is a washed up professor.... on what grounds?
Rick I didn't make any claims about any particular teachers. Community college positions are often the last resort for those who haven't made the cut at universities and 4-year colleges, or have been forced out for various reasons - ranging from the usual publish-or-perish system to being the subject of investigations and scandals. Once someone's been washed out of one university, particularly for anything unsavory, other universities can be reluctant to touch them, but community colleges unfortunately don't have the budgets to be that selective. Also community colleges are famous for trying to write their course descriptions and syllabi into fluffy confections better than the course content, and passing off the same course as a progressively more advanced series of courses leading to some sort of certificate. Sometimes you see students' transcripts that list 4 or 5 courses with the same professor, with all different names and descriptions - but if you press the school for the assignments and reading you find out the student basically took the same class four times.
A few years ago there was a bit of a scandal at one of our local community colleges when a group of faculty who were living in campers on campus were charged with indecent exposure because they were bathing in a wading pool in the parking lot (quite literally washed up professors!) Apparently it's not unusual for faculty to live in community college parking lots - unfortunately ours doesn't have a gym, so no indoor showers for the parking lot denizens. It's not that homeless teachers are necessarily bad teachers - but it does kind of undermine the idea that these are people who can teach what you need to know to have a viable career, don't you think?
You know that smell of shit that clings to the bottom of your Keds, despite the bleach bath, that's what this thread is like when good ole R-B enters.
Balkins learn these fools something. You've earned your tenure here. Ricky b takes archinect to class every day. Cmon professor!
JBeaumont,
Fine but you should recognize how you implied an accusational claim. Reality isn't as black & white as you think.
Rick I didn't make any claims about any particular teachers. Community college positions are often the last resort for those who haven't made the cut at universities and 4-year colleges, or have been forced out for various reasons - ranging from the usual publish-or-perish system to being the subject of investigations and scandals. Once someone's been washed out of one university, particularly for anything unsavory, other universities can be reluctant to touch them, but community colleges unfortunately don't have the budgets to be that selective. Also community colleges are famous for trying to write their course descriptions and syllabi into fluffy confections better than the course content, and passing off the same course as a progressively more advanced series of courses leading to some sort of certificate. Sometimes you see students' transcripts that list 4 or 5 courses with the same professor, with all different names and descriptions - but if you press the school for the assignments and reading you find out the student basically took the same class four times.
That's stereotyping community colleges. Some people have chosen community colleges. It could simply be about where they chose to live. You should also realize even in universities that courses often carry a lot of the same content reiterated in multiple classes even when taught by different instructors. Sometimes you have a course sequence taught by highly knowledged and skilled instructors. In Art, I had classes from the artist Royal Nebeker for the sequence of Art Basic Design courses. In History, I had History of Western Civilizations sequence from John D. Hauser. I had a drawing course from James K. Russell (then-retired Art Professor of Boise State University... who took on an adjunct instructor role.)
Some of you may very well have known who I am talking about if you took art classes from Boise State University between 1969/1970 and 1995/1996. Clatsop Community College doesn't just pick anyone they can afford. We tend to have high quality instructors. This notion make is a bit skewed and even disrespectful without knowing who these people are.
Regarding your comment about course descriptions being fluffery confections as you say. Course descriptions are typically short descriptions. As for syllabi, that is outlined by each instructor. From my experience, each course was more or less unique.
When you say the courses are the same, I say, that isn't the case so simply. You say community colleges are famous for doing this fluffery crap but you, while there is incidental cases in community colleges, they also occur at universities and other post-secondary institutions. This isn't just community education courses a person may take for non-credit. Accredited for-credit courses are under the same accreditation rules and guidelines as the Universities. Even non-transfer degrees follow basic academic standards. It's not like what you are saying.
Yes, some courses requires you to work on different kinds of assignments like learning how to use CAD. Yes, it may take 2-3 courses to get proficient. Yes, it may sound like doing the same stuff over and over. It's not. Nor is taking three courses in Art drawing. You are doing different things. When you take something across... say 2 years... or 6 courses of art drawing, the second year, you maybe doing additional things at a more advance level because it's expected that the skill and degree of complexity will increase. Developing hand and eye coordination. It's not like you will necessarily have the same nude model in the exact same pose for drawing human figure. It's like saying you are doing the same thing in each architecture studio course from basic introductory level architecture studio to intermediate and to advance level. You are expected to develop and grow your skills. Is development of skill from scribble to a finer drawing or drafting skills a bad thing?
I can even tell you that each workshop class I taken at the community college is a unique experience. Often involving a different building and refinement of skill. So if I replace glazing or re-roping the windows in one may seem like repetition on every building or project but also you are refining your understanding, developing a skill that you have to do with a degree of repetition to not only do better but also understanding. Even new circumstances. Different type of windows. But 1 cr or 2cr workshops are naturally intended to be sort of 'repeated' but not really as it is a new project or otherwise you are advancing it. It isn't exactly repeat but some things maybe the same in generalities but also different but a hands-on craft requires hours to refine and develop skills that even in 11 hours, you just can't get it all. If you looked closely on the courses, they are different. If I took a window workshop course, it just might be different than one I took before. Think about it. It's "field-school" through the workshops. Universities have courses similar to that as well.
A few years ago there was a bit of a scandal at one of our local community colleges when a group of faculty who were living in campers on campus were charged with indecent exposure because they were bathing in a wading pool in the parking lot (quite literally washed up professors!) Apparently it's not unusual for faculty to live in community college parking lots - unfortunately ours doesn't have a gym, so no indoor showers for the parking lot denizens. It's not that homeless teachers are necessarily bad teachers - but it does kind of undermine the idea that these are people who can teach what you need to know to have a viable career, don't you think?
Just because your local community colleges have this issue doesn't mean that is really the norm. I have been on campus at my community college even to the literal closing time for the day as I had night classes. At 10pm, there is pretty much no one parking on campus. I have never seen that kind of issue on campus. We don't have people living on campus. Especially instructors. You realize that the instructors we have usually make a livable salary to live in a modest house or even an apartment if they are full-time instructors. If they are adjuncts, they usually have a job or business and work in field that they maybe teaching or otherwise have education in.
Right now, we don't have a gym facility on campus (while that is currently being done at off-campus locations... as Patriot Hall Redevelopment project continues. Even then, our instructors are typically classier than to degrade themselves in the manner that you described at your community college.
I think your view on community colleges are a bit skewed based on the kind of stuff you are saying. We have police patrol that does route through the campus periodically.
Regarding your question in the example you given, I do agree with you, in that in the example you have given, it would undermine confidence. However, I also take recognition that your view is skewed by rather uncommon incidents that isn't that way everywhere.
^This fucking guy.
I'm not stereotyping - I'm telling you the facts about how community colleges get their faculty. If you'd done your research on your own examples of supposed quality faculty you would have realized you're only supporting exactly what I told you. Of the three you mentioned, one landed at your college after a criminal conviction and another landed there after a no confidence vote ended his administrative appointment elsewhere. The third was much maligned in his profession, so stopped practicing and started teaching. The best time to have done that research would have been before you spent 10 years in community college. Maybe you would have spent your time better so you wouldn't need to be so defensive now.
How does one acquire 14 years of higher education and still think "I taken", "you given", "I seen", "I been", and other similar constructions are English? "May be" are always two separate words when they mean something may be the case. You claim to have an education but you write like the 6 year old child of folks who ain't had no book learnin'. So much for community college.
Feel free to pile on but I don't think the OP is coming back...
This OP never participates in his own threads but it's apparent he reads the responses.
Class dismissed! Professor Balkins has failed all of you! Better luck next time archinect! Thank you for the lesson Ricky b!
Yes no_form. I'm certainly enlightened by the knowledge that Catslap Community College has (had?) a real live professor who previously taught at Forbes' 617th ranked college in an art department that cracked the top 1000 once in the 1980s. Get that on your LinkedIn profile Rick.
Oh no you didn't threesleeve!
"See the sad thing about a guy like you, is in about 50 years you’re gonna start doin' some thinkin' on your own and you’re gonna come up with the fact that there are two certainties in life. One, don't do that. And two, you dropped a hundred and fifty grand on a fuckin’ education you coulda' got for a dollar fifty in late charges at the Public Library."-professor Balkins droppn' the hammmah!
Uh huh. I'd buy that Balkins says he wrote that. Why not? He's been caught plagiarizing 100 times so what's one more. You have to attribute something that fits better though as he's 50k in student loan debt and doesn't like libraries.
Ricky B don't let all these elitist 4 year + graduates get you down! CCC is going to make you dean one day! Just don't stop publishing on archinect! This place would rot without you!
Threesleeve Balkins just channels the intellect of the world's top scholars through his writing. And you're right, he prefers a robust collection of PDFs and YouTube tutorials over a collection of smelly dead trees any day.
Balkins is a 21st century man!
Threesleeve,
Lets see, an internationally reknown artist and head of art department for 30+ years until he retired. Another instructor who was then a retired professor of a University. Both of whom are A) artists, B) experienced teaching art, and C) recognized in the art community.
Who the fuck are you?
Are you even worthy of having your art work displayed at the Art Paris Fair at the Louvre in Paris? Hell.... art galleries across the world?
When have you personally and solely responsible for a piece of architecture or art that is that worthy?
I'm not stereotyping - I'm telling you the facts about how community colleges get their faculty. If you'd done your research on your own examples of supposed quality faculty you would have realized you're only supporting exactly what I told you. Of the three you mentioned, one landed at your college after a criminal conviction and another landed there after a no confidence vote ended his administrative appointment elsewhere. The third was much maligned in his profession, so stopped practicing and started teaching. The best time to have done that research would have been before you spent 10 years in community college. Maybe you would have spent your time better so you wouldn't need to be so defensive now.
Yes, you are stereotyping. You say they get their faculty that way. I say most colleges gets some of their faculty that way.... SOME OF THE TIMES. You are implying that they get ALL their faculty that way all the time. I know you are full of shit on that one and you fucking know it.
Of the three you mentioned, one landed at your college after a criminal conviction and another landed there after a no confidence vote ended his administrative appointment elsewhere. The third was much maligned in his profession, so stopped practicing and started teaching. The best time to have done that research would have been before you spent 10 years in community college.
LOL!
I mentioned three names: Dr. John David Hauser (Phd majoring in History & Philosophy), Royal Nebeker (Art professor) and James K. Russell (from Boise).
Back your source up, right here... right now.
You made some serious accusations with YOUR little cowboy google research which leads to an EPIC fail. At least two of your counts are flat out wrong. One of them is borderline libelous. The middle one is something that may not really matter. So what if the person isn't really an 'administrator' type. Some are good at teaching and art but not necessarily be an department head kind of person. What the hell does that have to do with anything?
How does one acquire 14 years of higher education and still think "I taken", "you given", "I seen", "I been", and other similar constructions are English? "May be" are always two separate words when they mean something may be the case. You claim to have an education but you write like the 6 year old child of folks who ain't had no book learnin'. So much for community college.
The Answer is simple: I don't GIVE A FLYING FUCK about writing in an academic / professional prose on an online 'pub'. This is a FUCKING FORUM, ASSHOLE. Why go through all that trouble when the average drunk here doesn't give a shit? They get the idea. I'm writing as the thoughts comes to mind.
It's a comment reply not a damn blog that I am writing or an online article, or an academic paper or a professional report. I would expect people to proofread that. As for off the cuff, on the fly conversation, fuck the formalities.
I'm not submitting my posts on this forum for academic papers.
wait, why would you bleach bath your sneakers? wouldn't that ruin them?
Mr. Balkins, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent responses were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this thread is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
Knibb High Football Rules!
haha nice Josh
Ricky Balkinarico, stick to posting pictures of shadows that look like boobs. It's literally the only thing you're good at.