OK, I can read the code. And I know what the definitions say. What is less clear is what they actually mean.
Let's take this situation I'm dealing with:
- Church basement - occupied space. A3 occupancy. Requires fire sprinklers if:
" The fire area is located on a floor other than a level of exit discharge serving such occupancies."
This basement has 2 exits. One is an internal stair that goes up a half flight to an exit door. Another is an exterior stair that goes up a half flight - directly outdoors.
The definition of "level of exit discharge" is important - IBC defines it as:
EXIT DISCHARGE, LEVEL OF. The story at the point at which an exit terminates and an exit discharge begins.
other defs:
EXIT. That portion of a means of egress system between the exit access and the exit discharge or public way. Exit components include exterior exit doors at the level of exit discharge, interior exit stairways, interior exit ramps, exit passageways, exterior exit stairways and exterior exit ramps and horizontal exits.
EXIT DISCHARGE. That portion of a means of egress system between the termination of an exit and a public way.
Now, I'm in the weeds.
I assume the door itself - the one that goes from inside the building to the outside is the "exit". Anything BEFORE this door is the "exit access" and anything after it is the "exit discharge"...until you are at the "public way" which is the sidewalk (or maybe the parking lot is enough, who knows).
Now, if this is true, my church has 2 levels of "exit discharge" - one is at the basement level (because there's a door directly outside) and one is up a half story.
I'm going out on a limb and saying I don't need sprinklers - got to get the AHJ to buy in - but I'm more interested in getting other's take on some real world definitions of the various terms:
EXIT
EXIT ACCESS
EXIT DISCHARGE
ETC..
JeromeS
Jan 12, 16 7:05 am
Sounds like a.standard church, trying to make use of their basement. You'll be required to provide suppression.
Sounds like the LofED is the main floor,there is a full flight up from the basement.
senjohnblutarsky
Jan 12, 16 8:12 am
Assuming stair is rated:
Exit: Stair
Exit Access: Door to stair (Exit) from interior
Exit Discharge: Door from stair (Exit) to exterior.
You can rate sections of corridors and make them part of an exit.
gruen
Jan 12, 16 8:17 am
Thanks.
The basement is already finished, used and no changes are proposed. But we are doing other work to the church - and it may or may not trigger upgrades throughout. I'll get a read from the building dept before proceeding.
gruen
Jan 13, 16 1:41 pm
Building dept sent me to fire marshal. No problems in my situation. We will be adding a full fire alarm/detection system, adding additional exit/EBU fixtures, but no need for sprinklers. Maybe some magnetic hold opens on fire doors (they keep chocking them open).
Thanks for the clear explanation of the various exit components, I'll be referring back.
poop876
Jan 13, 16 3:48 pm
gruen,
that's good!
How big is the basement? Would you be able to make it less than 50 people in the basement, therefore reducing it down to B use and then using a single exit approach? Just curious, but then again you got your answer. I'm just a little surprised that they sent you to the fire department although this should be looked by the building department.
gruen
Jan 14, 16 4:38 pm
Basement has 2 means of egress, and more than 50 occ. It's an A occupancy.
I think the building inspector was being lazy, and the fire dept had already flagged the property for various violations - which is why the church hired me.
OK, I can read the code. And I know what the definitions say. What is less clear is what they actually mean.
Let's take this situation I'm dealing with:
- Church basement - occupied space. A3 occupancy. Requires fire sprinklers if:
" The fire area is located on a floor other than a level of exit discharge serving such occupancies."
This basement has 2 exits. One is an internal stair that goes up a half flight to an exit door. Another is an exterior stair that goes up a half flight - directly outdoors.
The definition of "level of exit discharge" is important - IBC defines it as:
EXIT DISCHARGE, LEVEL OF. The story at the point at which an exit terminates and an exit discharge begins.
other defs:
EXIT. That portion of a means of egress system between the exit access and the exit discharge or public way. Exit components include exterior exit doors at the level of exit discharge, interior exit stairways, interior exit ramps, exit passageways, exterior exit stairways and exterior exit ramps and horizontal exits.
EXIT DISCHARGE. That portion of a means of egress system between the termination of an exit and a public way.
Now, I'm in the weeds.
I assume the door itself - the one that goes from inside the building to the outside is the "exit". Anything BEFORE this door is the "exit access" and anything after it is the "exit discharge"...until you are at the "public way" which is the sidewalk (or maybe the parking lot is enough, who knows).
Now, if this is true, my church has 2 levels of "exit discharge" - one is at the basement level (because there's a door directly outside) and one is up a half story.
I'm going out on a limb and saying I don't need sprinklers - got to get the AHJ to buy in - but I'm more interested in getting other's take on some real world definitions of the various terms:
EXIT
EXIT ACCESS
EXIT DISCHARGE
ETC..
Sounds like a.standard church, trying to make use of their basement. You'll be required to provide suppression.
Sounds like the LofED is the main floor,there is a full flight up from the basement.
Assuming stair is rated:
Exit: Stair
Exit Access: Door to stair (Exit) from interior
Exit Discharge: Door from stair (Exit) to exterior.
You can rate sections of corridors and make them part of an exit.
Thanks.
The basement is already finished, used and no changes are proposed. But we are doing other work to the church - and it may or may not trigger upgrades throughout. I'll get a read from the building dept before proceeding.
Building dept sent me to fire marshal. No problems in my situation. We will be adding a full fire alarm/detection system, adding additional exit/EBU fixtures, but no need for sprinklers. Maybe some magnetic hold opens on fire doors (they keep chocking them open).
Thanks for the clear explanation of the various exit components, I'll be referring back.
gruen,
that's good!
How big is the basement? Would you be able to make it less than 50 people in the basement, therefore reducing it down to B use and then using a single exit approach? Just curious, but then again you got your answer. I'm just a little surprised that they sent you to the fire department although this should be looked by the building department.
Basement has 2 means of egress, and more than 50 occ. It's an A occupancy.
I think the building inspector was being lazy, and the fire dept had already flagged the property for various violations - which is why the church hired me.