I need clarification for this code and I hope some one can assist me or refer me to
an authorized person. I am An Architect and done many multi-family dwelling projects. I have a disagreement regarding interpretation of this code which happened only in my last project with the plan checker. I appreciate if you let me know what is your understanding of this code? I am using "option two" for bathroom accessibility for
an apartment unit.
Option 2. Only one bathroom within the dwelling unit
shall be designed to comply with the following:
1. Toilet, bathing and shower facilities shall comply with Section 1134A.4.
2. Bathtubs shall comply with Section 1134A.5.
3. Showers shall comply with Section 1134A.6.
4. Water closets shall comply with Section 1134A.7.
5. Lavatories, vanities, mirrors and towel fixtures shall comply with Section 1134A.8.
6. Where both a tub and shower are provided in the bathroom, at least one shall be made accessible.
Additional requirements apply to dwelling units containing two or more bathrooms when a bathtub
is provided as the accessible bathing fixture.
Where two or more bathrooms are provided within the same dwelling unit and a bathtub is
installed to comply with Option 2, Item 6 in one bathroom and a shower stall is provided in a subsequent
bathroom, both the bathtub selected to comply with Option 2, Item 6 and at least one
shower stall within the dwelling unit shall meet all the applicable accessibility requirements provided in Section 1134A.
(See Section 1134A.5 for bathtubs, or Section 1134A.6 for showers.)
7. When two or more lavatories are provided, at least one shall be made accessible and comply with Section 1134A.8.
8. Bathrooms shall be provided with an accessible route into and through the bathroom.
9. If a door is provided, it shall comply with the requirements of Section 1132A.5.
10. A minimum 18-inch (457 mm) clear maneuvering space shall be provided on the swing side of the door at the strike edge of the door.
11. Switches, outlets and controls shall comply with Section 1142A.
12. Reinforced walls to allow for the future installation of grab bars around the toilet, tub and shower shall comply with Sections 1134A.5 for bathtubs,
1134A.6 for showers and 1134A.7 for water closets. Grab bars shall comply with Sections 1127A.4 and 1127A.2.2, Item 4.
When Option 2 is used, all additional bathrooms must comply with Items 8 through 12 above.
based on last sentence that " when option 2 is used........." if we have to comply with item 8, and make all bathrooms accessible
which the plan checker has told me and provide 60" maneuvering space and all fixtures to be accessible.
what would be the difference between option one and two?
poop876
Dec 21, 15 7:14 am
Clarify apartment unit so we can help. Are all units accessible, meaning is there an elevator or is it let's say a breezeway type of building? How many type A units do you have?
Josh Mings
Dec 21, 15 8:22 am
It's a good practice to make all bathrooms with the accessible clear spaces anyway, given that our population is starting to want to age in place.
Especially if you work in an area that requires all non accessible units to be Type B. That's been my approach on senior buildings I've worked on.
poop876
Dec 21, 15 8:59 am
Josh, do you mean to make all units type A? I don't think any developer would ever buy that! They will always reduce the bathrooms to make bedrooms and other spaces larger.
I do agree, the design for bathrooms has been always to minimum and it is annoying. Myself, I like bathrooms larger, but it does not necessarily I would want 60" turning radius in there.
Peter Normand
Dec 21, 15 10:26 am
I think there are two things at play, 1 you have to make a percentage of the units in a development accessible and that means a person who is physically challenged be it a parent or child can live and fully use the space. The solution I used last I faced this was to not have a private bathroom or if the master bath is to be accessible that it have a door to the common areas as well as to the master bedroom. The other aspect is making the housing unit accessible to a visitor with a disability, this requires a toilet room but not the bathing facilities, also means that an entry and the public areas to the first floor of a unit need to have the required clearances to maneuver a wheel chair.
So you have to accommodate a visitor which is the reason for items 8-12 but also a resident with a disability who needs to bathe and cook and other domestic things.
As I always advocate call the local building official, they are there to help you fully comply and would much prefer to answer questions than issue citations.
Over and OUT
Peter N
urbanity
Dec 21, 15 10:53 am
See CBC 1134A.4 [July 2015 Errata] for Sufficient Maneuvering Space.
Provide a 30"x48" space in the bathroom or powder room clear of the door swing so a person in a wheelchair can enter the room and shut the door.
You could have easily found this info yourself.
JeromeS
Dec 21, 15 1:01 pm
^^ +1 for Urbanity
Option B is a reduced level of accessibility; The first bath is fully accessible, the second bath only provides accessible route, per items 8-12.
No requirement for accessible fixtures or clear floor areas at fixtures.
What state is this in? Can you contact the DCA for an informal clarification on this? This way you have something to beat over the head of the BCO
Josh Mings
Dec 21, 15 2:15 pm
No, we make them type B. What we usually do is include all the necessary clearances for Type A and put blocking in the walls for future grab bars.
Chicago for senior housing essentially wants Type A bathrooms in every unit for senior housing, so that's what I'm used to doing.
MasterPlan
Dec 23, 15 8:25 pm
Hi all, got a related question from another California person (which I'm assuming the OP is based on the way the info. in his post).
For an existing building (built in the 70's or 80's, over 100 units) counting as "Public Housing" per CBC 11B-233, does every non-accessible unit in a building with an elevator need to be adaptable? If so that's alot of units that need their bathrooms and kitchens re-designed!
Also, this is off-campus apartment-style housing for a public university for both grad. students and undergrad. students. Could it be classified as "Transient Lodging" per CBC 11B-224, like dorms are?
By the way if you're not from CA, the sections I quoted should align with ADA 2010 (i.e. CBC 11B-233 is the same as ADA 2010 section 233).
Thanks!
poop876
Dec 24, 15 9:07 am
MasterPlan,
what is the scope of work? If you are renovating, you should be able to use the 20% upgrade for accessibility. Blocking, ADA toilets, showers etc. I've never done a project where a governing agency made me tear out walls etc. in order to comply. Remember it is an existing building and use.
Peter Normand
Dec 24, 15 3:40 pm
I think in California the ADA is enforced through civil court action. This can come down on anyone or any institution. I would think of it in two ways, One is to make a few units fully accessible and have the agency reserve or hold those rooms or units until a person with a legally protected disability needs the room, this is tricky because you always have to keep a room open that is ADA compliant until you are fully booked. Hotels run into this all the time.
The other option depending on the in house abilities of the physical plant and the existing conditions is to have a design that can be implemented on any unit and be completed quickly. This may involve stockpiling tubs and counter tops in addition to any other long lead items and having a crew on hand to rapidly deploy the required improvements. This being university housing there may be a reasonable expectation of a one to three month window to complete the renovation in a given unit over the summer. This also will involve careful coordination with the permitting authority and good working relations with unions. If the university is in the middle of any labor negotiation this maybe too risky to pull off if there are sympathy strikes or slowdows.
I don't think transient housing would apply for graduate housing if I am thinking of the type of student housing I am familiar with. If each unit has kitchen and bathroom I would think it would be an apartment. Check the building code definition I think transient applies to a traditional dormitory or hostel where there are shared facilities.
I need clarification for this code and I hope some one can assist me or refer me to
an authorized person.
I am An Architect and done many multi-family dwelling projects. I have a disagreement regarding interpretation of this code which happened only in my last project with the plan checker. I appreciate if you let me know what is your understanding of this code?
I am using "option two" for bathroom accessibility for
an apartment unit.
Option 2. Only one bathroom within the dwelling unit
shall be designed to comply with the following:
1. Toilet, bathing and shower facilities shall comply with Section 1134A.4.
2. Bathtubs shall comply with Section 1134A.5.
3. Showers shall comply with Section 1134A.6.
4. Water closets shall comply with Section 1134A.7.
5. Lavatories, vanities, mirrors and towel fixtures shall comply with Section 1134A.8.
6. Where both a tub and shower are provided in the bathroom, at least one shall be made accessible.
Additional requirements apply to dwelling units containing two or more bathrooms when a bathtub
is provided as the accessible bathing fixture.
Where two or more bathrooms are provided within the same dwelling unit and a bathtub is
installed to comply with Option 2, Item 6 in one bathroom and a shower stall is provided in a subsequent
bathroom, both the bathtub selected to comply with Option 2, Item 6 and at least one
shower stall within the dwelling unit shall meet all the applicable accessibility requirements provided in Section 1134A.
(See Section 1134A.5 for bathtubs, or Section 1134A.6 for showers.)
7. When two or more lavatories are provided, at least one shall be made accessible and comply with Section 1134A.8.
8. Bathrooms shall be provided with an accessible route into and through the bathroom.
9. If a door is provided, it shall comply with the requirements of Section 1132A.5.
10. A minimum 18-inch (457 mm) clear maneuvering space shall be provided on the swing side of the door at the strike edge of the door.
11. Switches, outlets and controls shall comply with Section 1142A.
12. Reinforced walls to allow for the future installation of grab bars around the toilet, tub and shower shall comply with Sections 1134A.5 for bathtubs,
1134A.6 for showers and 1134A.7 for water closets. Grab bars shall comply with Sections 1127A.4 and 1127A.2.2, Item 4.
When Option 2 is used, all additional bathrooms must comply with Items 8 through 12 above.
based on last sentence that " when option 2 is used........." if we have to comply with item 8, and make all bathrooms accessible
which the plan checker has told me and provide 60" maneuvering space and all fixtures to be accessible.
what would be the difference between option one and two?
Clarify apartment unit so we can help. Are all units accessible, meaning is there an elevator or is it let's say a breezeway type of building? How many type A units do you have?
It's a good practice to make all bathrooms with the accessible clear spaces anyway, given that our population is starting to want to age in place.
Especially if you work in an area that requires all non accessible units to be Type B. That's been my approach on senior buildings I've worked on.
Josh, do you mean to make all units type A? I don't think any developer would ever buy that! They will always reduce the bathrooms to make bedrooms and other spaces larger.
I do agree, the design for bathrooms has been always to minimum and it is annoying. Myself, I like bathrooms larger, but it does not necessarily I would want 60" turning radius in there.
I think there are two things at play, 1 you have to make a percentage of the units in a development accessible and that means a person who is physically challenged be it a parent or child can live and fully use the space. The solution I used last I faced this was to not have a private bathroom or if the master bath is to be accessible that it have a door to the common areas as well as to the master bedroom. The other aspect is making the housing unit accessible to a visitor with a disability, this requires a toilet room but not the bathing facilities, also means that an entry and the public areas to the first floor of a unit need to have the required clearances to maneuver a wheel chair.
So you have to accommodate a visitor which is the reason for items 8-12 but also a resident with a disability who needs to bathe and cook and other domestic things.
As I always advocate call the local building official, they are there to help you fully comply and would much prefer to answer questions than issue citations.
Over and OUT
Peter N
See CBC 1134A.4 [July 2015 Errata] for Sufficient Maneuvering Space.
Provide a 30"x48" space in the bathroom or powder room clear of the door swing so a person in a wheelchair can enter the room and shut the door.
You could have easily found this info yourself.
^^ +1 for Urbanity
Option B is a reduced level of accessibility; The first bath is fully accessible, the second bath only provides accessible route, per items 8-12.
No requirement for accessible fixtures or clear floor areas at fixtures.
What state is this in? Can you contact the DCA for an informal clarification on this? This way you have something to beat over the head of the BCO
No, we make them type B. What we usually do is include all the necessary clearances for Type A and put blocking in the walls for future grab bars.
Chicago for senior housing essentially wants Type A bathrooms in every unit for senior housing, so that's what I'm used to doing.
Hi all, got a related question from another California person (which I'm assuming the OP is based on the way the info. in his post).
For an existing building (built in the 70's or 80's, over 100 units) counting as "Public Housing" per CBC 11B-233, does every non-accessible unit in a building with an elevator need to be adaptable? If so that's alot of units that need their bathrooms and kitchens re-designed!
Also, this is off-campus apartment-style housing for a public university for both grad. students and undergrad. students. Could it be classified as "Transient Lodging" per CBC 11B-224, like dorms are?
By the way if you're not from CA, the sections I quoted should align with ADA 2010 (i.e. CBC 11B-233 is the same as ADA 2010 section 233).
Thanks!
MasterPlan,
what is the scope of work? If you are renovating, you should be able to use the 20% upgrade for accessibility. Blocking, ADA toilets, showers etc. I've never done a project where a governing agency made me tear out walls etc. in order to comply. Remember it is an existing building and use.
I think in California the ADA is enforced through civil court action. This can come down on anyone or any institution. I would think of it in two ways, One is to make a few units fully accessible and have the agency reserve or hold those rooms or units until a person with a legally protected disability needs the room, this is tricky because you always have to keep a room open that is ADA compliant until you are fully booked. Hotels run into this all the time.
The other option depending on the in house abilities of the physical plant and the existing conditions is to have a design that can be implemented on any unit and be completed quickly. This may involve stockpiling tubs and counter tops in addition to any other long lead items and having a crew on hand to rapidly deploy the required improvements. This being university housing there may be a reasonable expectation of a one to three month window to complete the renovation in a given unit over the summer. This also will involve careful coordination with the permitting authority and good working relations with unions. If the university is in the middle of any labor negotiation this maybe too risky to pull off if there are sympathy strikes or slowdows.
I don't think transient housing would apply for graduate housing if I am thinking of the type of student housing I am familiar with. If each unit has kitchen and bathroom I would think it would be an apartment. Check the building code definition I think transient applies to a traditional dormitory or hostel where there are shared facilities.
Over and OUT
Peter N