I'm pretty sure the apex is pointed down on a ramp in plan, but I'm not certain. Some plans only have the triangle w/ the apex and no written "up" or "down" or arrow.
Can anyone help?
citizen
Dec 17, 15 9:52 pm
This is variable enough that we won't find agreement. To be safe: label the direction arrow with u/d text.
Redjester
Dec 17, 15 10:01 pm
Thanks Citizen,
That's surprising considering the number of plans that solely use the "triangle" on its ramps. I figured it must be a universal thing as otherwise they'd be writing "Up"/"Down" or drawing arrows.
Shame as well because I like the aesthetic of it.
Out of curiosity, what's more common?
Peter Normand
Mar 5, 18 6:22 pm
The key thing is to have it be consistent in the whole set of drawings, and the arrow with text is much better than the triangle because I had a project where the contractor misread the lines as valleys in a sloped floor. we did catch it early before they poured the first slabs. If Revit will let you use the arrow with text and dash the lines if they must be present.
b3tadine[sutures]
Dec 17, 15 10:11 pm
Strangely enough, I always like the ascending arrow.
citizen
Dec 17, 15 10:16 pm
With no text, I usually assume the arrow points up.
Miles Jaffe
Dec 17, 15 10:28 pm
The road to hell is paved with assumptions.
David Cole, AIA
Dec 17, 15 10:51 pm
Apex of the triangle points up. (The memory trick I use for this is to imagine a liquid being poured down the ramp, and spreading out in the shape of the triangle as it flows downhill.) I've never seen it pointing down in any office I've worked. For construction documents I add text and spot elevations just to make it as idiot-proof as possible.
rypat
Jan 15, 21 2:46 pm
Agree with this approach on CDs to make it foolproof. This is also the mnemonic device I
use.
Redjester
Dec 17, 15 10:55 pm
Thanks Dave, so in other words, think of it as an arrow pointing up. Oddly enough, some other boards (not to mention google images) were suggesting the latter.
Thanks again.
Josh Mings
Dec 18, 15 7:03 am
I was thinking about this recently too. I idiot proof it with an arrow and text. Last thing you want is a change order due to civil not grading it properly when they misunderstood the drawing (would most likely be caught in coordination, but still).
JeromeS
Dec 18, 15 10:03 am
I like to label the ramp-stair with lower case letters as up/dn to further confuse the issue...
Redjester
Dec 18, 15 10:09 am
JeromeS,
LOL!!!
citizen
Dec 18, 15 11:54 am
Jerome wins today's prize
proto
Dec 18, 15 6:52 pm
without any letters, it's a trap door
jeremyfretts
Jun 2, 17 10:57 am
There seems to be no consensus among architects, but I disagree with "pointing up." I always show the arrow pointing down the slope, which is consistent with common practice in roof plans, civil and landscape architecture drawings.
If you take my advice, all arrows in your drawings, from top of roof to bottom of site, will always point down.
(And stairs and ramps should be labeled, and shown in section too)
proto
Jun 2, 17 11:50 am
arrows point away from the floor level of the current plan -- up & down as required
jessiehong
Mar 5, 18 6:00 pm
apex should point down, that is representing the slope direction which the water directions.
adityasnath
Mar 11, 18 11:22 am
It depends on which level you cut the plan. If the level goes down with respect to where you stand, the arrow faces down and vice versa.
geezertect
Mar 11, 18 2:07 pm
Use words, particularly since there is obviously no consensus. Vagueness in a legal document is construed against the party who has the most control over its drafting. That's us, architects.
randomised
Mar 11, 18 3:11 pm
In the Netherlands the arrow in plan of stairs and ramps always points upwards.
Obviously nobody should be using this annotation if nobody knows how it should read. Move on.
jamesyevgeniyosborne
Jun 18, 18 9:35 am
UK "Architect's Pocket Book" shows arrow pointing UP.
DOWN > UP
Miles Jaffe
Jun 18, 18 10:06 am
Everything is backwards in the UK, you guys even drive on the wrong side of the road.
apscoradiales
Jan 15, 21 2:14 pm
Believe it or not, the Brits are doing it right. They do it the way Romans did it when they hauled carts and things way back when. Or so I read somewhere.
If you in London and walking the streets, just remember "Look Right".
as i have seen some of the drawings in different sites.
rypat
Jan 15, 21 1:46 pm
I use two mnemonic devices:
1) liquid being poured at the top of the ramp spreads wider as it flows downhill. High < Low
2) Imagine a mountain, the peak (apex) is at the high side, the base (wider) is at the low side. High < Low
PS) I agree that assumptions are varied enough to warrant text notation as well... or spot elevations on the flat floors on each side.
apscoradiales
Jan 15, 21 2:12 pm
Think of it a window/door swing in elevation. The pointy end is upper end, and the other is two is the bottom end.
Of course, if you are in other parts of the World, then it could be the reverse.
I stopped using that long time ago; prefer the arrow that either points down or up from the level that is being shown on the floor plan. So, if you're on the Level 1, and you want to go lower, then show the arrow pointing down and a note DN, but if you want to go up, then show the arrow pointing up with a note UP. Couldn't be more simple.
rypat
Jan 15, 21 2:43 pm
I agree text notation is clearest and leaves no room for doubt.
But we don’t typically use text notation on elevations of doors, windows, or cabinet door swings (except in shop drawings, where everything is explicit), and those are all understood by their graphics alone on architectural sheets, i’ve never once added “hinge”, or “latch” to door elevations, even ones without visible hardware.
There’s also the case where you’re putting together a clean marketing plan with not text at all, and want the graphic notation to stand for itself, and in this case it’s helpful to have a standard arrow direction just like we have for door swings in elevation.
apscoradiales
Jan 15, 21 3:30 pm
I've always indicated swings on door and window elevations. Also, for windows, we used to say O.I. or O.O. (opening in or opening out. Lessens the confusion during tendering; shop drawings only confirm it. To each his own, I guess. If doing some other way works for you, then that's fine.
juliashipley
Jun 21, 21 8:59 am
High < Low - and text notation (UK) .... my conclusion after ready this thread :)
Archiinerd
Oct 25, 21 11:22 am
I just came across a drawing with the ramp "arrow"/"V" pointing down, no text or level indication, which really confused me! I learned in all colleges and universities I've been (in the UK and in Greece) that the arrow points up, just like the stair symbol has an arrow at the upmost step to show this upwards direction. I was also taught to always use level symbols on both sides of a ramp, or stair, to make it fool-proof. No need for up/down text.
I'm pretty sure the apex is pointed down on a ramp in plan, but I'm not certain. Some plans only have the triangle w/ the apex and no written "up" or "down" or arrow.
Can anyone help?
This is variable enough that we won't find agreement. To be safe: label the direction arrow with u/d text.
Thanks Citizen,
That's surprising considering the number of plans that solely use the "triangle" on its ramps. I figured it must be a universal thing as otherwise they'd be writing "Up"/"Down" or drawing arrows.
Shame as well because I like the aesthetic of it.
Out of curiosity, what's more common?
The key thing is to have it be consistent in the whole set of drawings, and the arrow with text is much better than the triangle because I had a project where the contractor misread the lines as valleys in a sloped floor. we did catch it early before they poured the first slabs. If Revit will let you use the arrow with text and dash the lines if they must be present.
Strangely enough, I always like the ascending arrow.
With no text, I usually assume the arrow points up.
The road to hell is paved with assumptions.
Apex of the triangle points up. (The memory trick I use for this is to imagine a liquid being poured down the ramp, and spreading out in the shape of the triangle as it flows downhill.) I've never seen it pointing down in any office I've worked. For construction documents I add text and spot elevations just to make it as idiot-proof as possible.
Agree with this approach on CDs to make it foolproof. This is also the mnemonic device I
use.
Thanks Dave, so in other words, think of it as an arrow pointing up. Oddly enough, some other boards (not to mention google images) were suggesting the latter.
Thanks again.
I was thinking about this recently too. I idiot proof it with an arrow and text. Last thing you want is a change order due to civil not grading it properly when they misunderstood the drawing (would most likely be caught in coordination, but still).
I like to label the ramp-stair with lower case letters as up/dn to further confuse the issue...
JeromeS,
LOL!!!
Jerome wins today's prize
without any letters, it's a trap door
There seems to be no consensus among architects, but I disagree with "pointing up." I always show the arrow pointing down the slope, which is consistent with common practice in roof plans, civil and landscape architecture drawings.
If you take my advice, all arrows in your drawings, from top of roof to bottom of site, will always point down.
(And stairs and ramps should be labeled, and shown in section too)
arrows point away from the floor level of the current plan -- up & down as required
apex should point down, that is representing the slope direction which the water directions.
It depends on which level you cut the plan. If the level goes down with respect to where you stand, the arrow faces down and vice versa.
Use words, particularly since there is obviously no consensus. Vagueness in a legal document is construed against the party who has the most control over its drafting. That's us, architects.
In the Netherlands the arrow in plan of stairs and ramps always points upwards.
The ramp slope is shown this way in plan design
Idiotic.
UP >
or
DOWN >
Pick one.
Obviously nobody should be using this annotation if nobody knows how it should read. Move on.
UK "Architect's Pocket Book" shows arrow pointing UP.
DOWN > UP
Everything is backwards in the UK, you guys even drive on the wrong side of the road.
Believe it or not, the Brits are doing it right. They do it the way Romans did it when they hauled carts and things way back when. Or so I read somewhere.
If you in London and walking the streets, just remember "Look Right".
Just put up or dn next to the arrow ;)
...wait.. I see what you did there.
You magnificent bastard.
https://www.dezeen.com/2016/11...
https://www.archdaily.com/5451...
Down>Up,
as i have seen some of the drawings in different sites.
I use two mnemonic devices:
1) liquid being poured at the top of the ramp spreads wider as it flows downhill. High < Low
2) Imagine a mountain, the peak (apex) is at the high side, the base (wider) is at the low side. High < Low
PS) I agree that assumptions are varied enough to warrant text notation as well... or spot elevations on the flat floors on each side.
Think of it a window/door swing in elevation. The pointy end is upper end, and the other is two is the bottom end.
Of course, if you are in other parts of the World, then it could be the reverse.
I stopped using that long time ago; prefer the arrow that either points down or up from the level that is being shown on the floor plan. So, if you're on the Level 1, and you want to go lower, then show the arrow pointing down and a note DN, but if you want to go up, then show the arrow pointing up with a note UP. Couldn't be more simple.
I agree text notation is clearest and leaves no room for doubt.
But we don’t typically use text notation on elevations of doors, windows, or cabinet door swings (except in shop drawings, where everything is explicit), and those are all understood by their graphics alone on architectural sheets, i’ve never once added “hinge”, or “latch” to door elevations, even ones without visible hardware.
There’s also the case where you’re putting together a clean marketing plan with not text at all, and want the graphic notation to stand for itself, and in this case it’s helpful to have a standard arrow direction just like we have for door swings in elevation.
I've always indicated swings on door and window elevations. Also, for windows, we used to say O.I. or O.O. (opening in or opening out. Lessens the confusion during tendering; shop drawings only confirm it. To each his own, I guess. If doing some other way works for you, then that's fine.
High < Low - and text notation (UK) .... my conclusion after ready this thread :)
I just came across a drawing with the ramp "arrow"/"V" pointing down, no text or level indication, which really confused me! I learned in all colleges and universities I've been (in the UK and in Greece) that the arrow points up, just like the stair symbol has an arrow at the upmost step to show this upwards direction. I was also taught to always use level symbols on both sides of a ramp, or stair, to make it fool-proof. No need for up/down text.