Looks good, but in a few weeks the holiday season starts and things get crazy with people taking vacations and all.
What city and what sector are you looking to land a position in?
flatroof
Nov 15, 15 9:09 pm
Recession within the next two years. Hold on to your butts!
Larchinect
Nov 15, 15 9:35 pm
You almost sound excited fr.
bundy
Nov 17, 15 10:46 am
I posted this long reaction to the NCARB licensure path article last night and after re-reading it this morning felt it germane to this topic. Excuse the length but this is my opinion as someone with 30+ years experience, 26 years as a firm owner or partner;
I feel the need to weigh in on this very important topic affecting our profession. NCARB is not the gate keeper of our vocation though try they may. The profession is a body of individuals that have proven the necessary skill, aptitude and reliability to ensure the health, safety and wellness of the general public. People always attack that last part, especially the young who can be forgiven for their ignorance of the fact that not long ago Architects did the critical design on the majority buildings built in this country. We did (and some still do ) their own engineering and mechanical design hiring engineers as consultants to consult, not shed liability. Engineering was a task done inside the Architect's studio by us or an engineer in our employ. This was and is our true power center as a profession because it is how we fulfill the mandate to protect the health and welfare of the general public, make a real dollar and earned god dam respect. In this age of great size be it the big firm, the big bank, the big government agency, there exists an ever increasing desperation to control, everything, including our profession but the folly of this age is that control is fleeting, destroying the very thing it means to protect. I've been in this business a long time and it's never been as hollow as it is now. There is no work. You may see tower crains in your city participating in one of the biggest multifamily, higher education and hotel expansions in the last 50 years but there's little need for us on the other end of that process. I have managed 20 architects which was a medium sized studio at one time which can now be done by 5 people. I used to sit at the right hand of the client at meetings and now sit at the middle of the table behind the boxed lunch, superintendent, manager and contractor. I didn't willingly give up my stature, you, the educators did that to us. Maybe you never like us or were just unhappy people. For 40 years the schools in the country have one by one abandoned a solid, principled design education buttressed by engineering, mechanics, art and history in favor of fashion, style and modish education pumping out graduates in such huge numbers that ranks have been bloated for decades and mostly with human flotsam. For 15 years this profession has been shedding 5%-10% of it's members per year and yet the schools keep turning out more desperate debtors guaranteed to give up and find sustenance in another field about 2 years after the first kid comes ( I've seen it more times than I care to remember). Fees have never been thinner while staff asked to do more. If you existed in the wholly private sector in 1999 you probably don't exist anymore. I cold called over 120 developers in 2 states last week and have 2 potential leads for maybe something they are looking at next year - that's as good as nothing. As a firm owner I am now asked to hard bid architectural services against 5 or 6 firms routinely because we are just a spreadsheet entry. In my office complex there's been a never ending stream of young Architectural start ups come and go for the last 20 years - some even ballooning to 40 or 50 people before spectacularly exploding with broken lives, failed marriages and massive debts. Those were the good times. I get so many resumes today it's like 2009 never ended, and you should see them, Harvard! For Christ's sake. How bad is it Harvard grads want to work on power center outlots or some TOD apartment where we struggle to get 10 inches more out of each unit? This is the reality the educators want to release a fresh new wave of debt ridden dreamers into, a reality wheres there's maybe 1 job for 10 people and the irony is you just might get that job at graduation, and then that's it because I don't have room for you beyond drafting and modeling, I've got 2 guys with over 20 years each for that, the other firm owners in my local AIA chapter certainly don't have room, so where is all this "demand growth" occurring because revenues aren't indicating this? Of those developers I contacted last week over a third now do design in-house. Your school probably told you the future was design based, no need for hard knowledge right? Well guess who's doing that now - your clients. If you were around residential in the 90s you saw the home builders take design in the residential single family sector, then it spread to retail shopping centers, now it's everywhere. Marketing firms now offer architectural design, and increasingly win it. So good luck with that hot handed design skill you polished for 6 years, your going to be drafting for a MRED with a knocked off copy of auto cad. And if you think interior design is going to offer some relief your right, it's one of the only profit centers left for my firm but I employ 2 interior designers to do interior design, not architects. Sadly I have found through the years Architects, especially young ones, cant hold a candle to most interior design graduates when it actually comes to thoughtful, saleable design. Hell most cant even draw any more or do a simple marker sketch but the interior design kids all can and it's still the best jaw dropper when sitting across from a client - human talent. You can draw and they cant. To conclude my ranting I just have to say NCARB, the schools, the people on these committees, they are all either misguided or worse. I would hate to call it a financial fraud but we live in an age where fraud is the norm. From the fountainhead of debt springs power, debt is the master's whip in this age. The country stopped expanding about 30 years after we built out California and it's been bullshitting itself ever since. The banks know this, we don't make a whole lot anymore so YOU and your debt is the commodity to being bought and sold keeping this old dynamo of capitalism going. The school administrators know the game is coming to end as enrollments started to level off so they needed to sweeten up the promises. Just remember - promises make debts, but debts make promises. The best act of defiance you could possibly do is to tell the educators, "No, I will not be a victim of your fraud", because I can assure you there will be no Architecture profession left for you to enter in 10 years, but you will still be paying the price of admission for at least 20.
David Cole, AIA
Nov 17, 15 10:55 am
All hail Great Wall of Text!
shellarchitect
Nov 17, 15 11:23 am
Crap, there goes my lunch break
zonker
Nov 17, 15 12:27 pm
bundy is right - the schools crank out these grasshopper kids that can't do door schedules and details - either they are going to work for BIG, Zaha, REX or some game company - they have a lot to learn before they can do 95% of the typical buildings going up - call it TOD call it blow n Go - its architectural reality
bundy
Nov 17, 15 12:43 pm
The last statistics I read were from Architect Magazine about a year ago and stated there are about 30,000 people enrolled right now in IDP with NCARB. The entire Architectural industry only employs an estimated 100,000 people and shrinks each year a sit adjusts to market demand and technological advances. The funnel is simply too great and professional Architects need to step up and take the schools back. They've been captured by the education industry and no longer educate but rather produce debtors. I cant even accept that an Architecture degree is even worth the paper it's printed on anymore and would very well support bringing back apprenticeship as an avenue to licensure with stricter examination requirements before supporting this NCARB critical path nonsense.
zonker
Nov 17, 15 12:56 pm
the next recession - 2 - 3 years from now will cull out many - thereby adjusting the ratio to a more realistic level -
shellarchitect
Nov 17, 15 1:07 pm
finally go around to reading this - I agree that NCARB's predictions regarding a collapse in the number of architects doesn't' make any sense looking at their own numbers.
However, with the exception of a pretty bad 2010-11, my experience has generally been very good. Even when I was recently laid off I had a new, and better, job within a few weeks. Business seems to be really booming now, and while that won't last, I'm really curious as to why you don't seem to be sharing in the wealth of work.
(I assume that is Michigan is doing well the rest of the country must be doing even better)
bundy
Nov 17, 15 1:18 pm
Shuellmi, We are busy right now but there is nothing scheduled for next year. Our pipeline has dried up in the last 3 months. Midwest here, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan and Iowa are all states we do work in. The last quarterly survey had the Midwest as most billings too, which we did have decent billings. We got battered in 07, 08, 09 and into 10. 11 was ok with a skeleton staff and we made money our back in 12, 13, and first part of 14. It started slowing last winter and by this point in 15 I'm convinced we are into a recession or on the edge of a nasty one.
Good_Knight
Nov 17, 15 1:48 pm
bundy is correct. The schools are the real problem.
"For 40 years the schools in the country have one by one abandoned a solid, principled design education buttressed by engineering, mechanics, art and history in favor of fashion, style and modish education pumping out graduates in such huge numbers that ranks have been bloated for decades and mostly with human flotsam. For 15 years this profession has been shedding 5%-10% of it's members per year and yet the schools keep turning out more desperate debtors guaranteed to give up and find sustenance in another field about 2 years after the first kid comes ( I've seen it more times than I care to remember)."
Good_Knight
Nov 17, 15 1:50 pm
Countdown to the next recession, er Great Depression for architecture 3...2...1...
zonker
Nov 17, 15 3:32 pm
schools - too much emphasis on presentation skills, Parametric design. history and theory - too much training to be the next Bjarke Ingels - and not enough production skills
StarchitectAlpha
Nov 18, 15 12:45 pm
I agree with Bundy, the profession has dropped its technical roots and opted towards a self righteous holier than thou artistic image. Which basically takes a valuable professional and turns him/her into a luxury artist, shrinking job prospects from managing every building to designing fringe buildings. I think another issue is that the profession has also failed to keep up with the times. I remember back in school our software professor said "these new programs don't allow you to do the same with less time, you'll end up doing more for the same amount of time." However the profession has attempted to give the same product (drafted plans and specs) for the same price without expanding scope. Adding energy analysis, value engineering, material take offs other valuable services that clients will pay for and keep us managing the design implementation and would be so helpful during design rather then getting done when the contractor firm gets a hold of the bid documents. Increasingly the valuable services of actually figuring out how to put the technical parts of the building together or how to reduce costs through materials or efficient green design is snatched up by "consultants" when a project has a construction manager, contractor who acts as the value engineer, engineer team (MEP structural whatever) green energy consultant, landscape consultant, interior design consultant, ect ect, the architect working on normal projects is essentially the "draftertect" and right now Draftertects are an extremely outsource-able profession that can be done anywhere with some with access to a laptop and autoCAD LT
tduds
Nov 18, 15 1:05 pm
the profession has dropped its technical roots and opted towards a self righteous holier than thou artistic image.
I must hear this 100 times for every self-righteous, holier than thou "artist"-tect I actually meet. It would seem to me that the vast majority of our profession is fed up with the state of the profession, but seems to think they're the lone rebellious voice. What if we realized we are the bulk of the profession and we have a voice in its future? Why not stand up and do something?
As for the second point, buildings are far more complicated than they were 100, 50, even 20 years ago. It's simply not realistic to expect a sole Architect to have a good enough command of the dozens of overlapping complex systems that make a modern building function. We need consultants, we need structural, mechanical, geotechnical, horticultural, sustainability, construction, etc. experts to put their full energy into the systems they have expertise in. Our job as architects is 1) to understand how they weave together, and 2) know just enough to know when our consultants are bullshitting us.
The more time I spend in a professional office and outside of heady academia (though I love the theoretical realm), the more I view my job as similar to that of an orchestra conductor. It's not my job to play all the instruments, but rather to guide the players into harmony.
This got a bit off-topic. Back to OP: I can't speak to the nation as a whole but the Pacific Northwest is on fire right now. We can't hire fast enough.
David Cole, AIA
Nov 18, 15 1:25 pm
+++ tduds
3tk
Nov 18, 15 2:20 pm
I do wonder for the libertarian leaning states if the next recession is going to be more serious than outright deregulation of the profession that seems to be becoming closer to reality.
The NE and Mid-Atlantic as well as the larger Midwest cities are currently doing really well, though the rapid crash that many did not foresee has firms edgy. As for the education, it will be curious to see what the expectation of graduates is slated to be: do they realistically want everyone to become a traditional architect? More and more programs seem to be more focused on graduating students with skill sets that are not a good fit for traditional practice but may be useful for others.
The current issue I have with the schools is a lack of 'first in, last out' mentality, or at the bare minimum an understanding of the corellation billing/overhead to salaries - too many of the staff taking their sweet time on renderings and avoiding CD production work, then asking for loads of time off and raises. That and the lack of initiative to go learn outside of 9-6 hours on everything related to the work - work ethic should have been pushed in school without having the all-nighter culture.
To answer the OP: NYC/DC/Boston is hopping, but entry level is still very competitive, mid-level and senior level is a seller's market somewhat offsetting the pains of the recession. The firm owners are optimistic but staying very real in new hires and expecting a lot of work, partially do to clients expecting recession level work to cost ratio.
no_form
Nov 18, 15 2:46 pm
OP, if you can use/bullshit your way through Revit and can use Sketchup people will be banging down the door for you. most employers don't really give a shit if you can design or sketch (even if they say hand sketching is sooo important). They just need people to produce drawings and sexy renderings.
If you want to advance beyond rendering and revit wiz you need to fight for every inch. Finding mentors, building trust to show you can do more technical work like figuring out water proofing details or a workable solution to a bathroom layout is a challenge for young grads. Basically do all you can to learn how to put together a building in whatever market you're in. if you get into residential, don't stay for long. it's the worst market in any down turn.
I was reading an interview with Hoon Moon, he said that persistence is more important than mostly all else in this industry. Since most employers do not value their employees much just learn what you can, build connections with your fellow grunts, sales reps, contractors, and anyone else you meet, negotiate with employers for the most money you can, and then move on when something better arises.
Quentin P
Nov 18, 15 3:12 pm
Well this read was depressing.
zonker
Nov 18, 15 4:26 pm
no_form - that is the way it is - it only took me 6.5 years and 12 firms before the P.A.s would let me do any design - you have to fight for every inch - I find I have to be real forceful with people esp. those who won't let me figure things out on my own
StarchitectAlpha
Nov 18, 15 4:26 pm
3tk - no work ethic? Where's my initiative to learn stuff outside of 9-6? What incentive do I have to do that? Work my butt off to earn 80k in my forties working on strip malls where I'm completely disposable because there's a million like me? Typical work harder not smarter mentality I'm talking about.
StarchitectAlpha
Nov 18, 15 4:31 pm
And if you want drafters hire drafters, why hire art architecture students? Of course they are going to avoid production.
no_form
Nov 18, 15 4:32 pm
Starchitect-Your initiative to learn after hours is where you develop your niche that sets you apart and keeps you valuable. Which id call smarter not harder. You need a plan or some goals. Otherwise you'll get tossed around with every dip and rise of the economy.
Xenakis-exactly.
tduds
Nov 18, 15 4:35 pm
12 firms in 6.5 years??
Maybe try sticking around for more than 6 months and people will trust you enough to give you some responsibility.
null pointer
Nov 18, 15 4:36 pm
tduds: fuck that. YOLO. seriously.
StarchitectAlpha
Nov 18, 15 4:48 pm
I do have initiative and work on stuff in the evening, night classes for a career that actually provides incentives. Why work harder in a career with no reward.
zonker
Nov 18, 15 5:04 pm
tduds
most of my exp was temp - it was tough to find a firm where I could make it to a direct position - e.g., I was too typical average for too long - the read "No Excuses" By Brian Tracy
BR.TN
Nov 18, 15 5:10 pm
StarchitectBeta, the reward is our built environment, chump. We all traded higher-than-average financial earnings in order to actually have a fun and extremely rewarding job. I have a friend who's 23 and is an investment analyst for Goldman Sachs in Manhattan. He makes twice as much as I do, but his job is half as enjoyable. Even worse, in 20 years he'll only have a padded savings account to show for it, and I'll have a portfolio of built work across the country and many lives I've impacted with my own talent. The only mental ecstasy he is going to experience in his life from here-on-out is when I design a kickass home for him.
Ever hear about how the average employee only gets 4 hours of work done during an 8 hour day? Well, that's because they're complacent. Those who get promoted or those who have further opportunities are those who get 8 hours of work done during an 8 hour day. Robots? Maybe...
My incentive to "learn stuff outside of 9-6" is to be more successful than my peers who don't.
curtkram
Nov 18, 15 5:28 pm
i like to think there are places like what you describe br.tn. does it actually work that way, where you will get to design the built environment because you put in 8 hours of actual work, or do other people get to design the built environment while you watch? just curious as to whether you're explaining how your office works, or how you think it should work.
StarchitectAlpha
Nov 18, 15 5:34 pm
BRTN what make believe land do you live in? Asset managers have more control of the built environment than architects do.
BR.TN
Nov 18, 15 7:05 pm
curtkram, I work in a corporate office with 14 principals who get first priority in the conceptual design after self-sufficiently reeling in a client, and then they monitor the project while one of our 30 PA's gets the rest of the work done with a project team of 5-10 people like me. Those who are promoted to the level of principal are promoted for three reasons: 1) their work ethic, 2) their design talent, 3) their ability to be self-sufficient in client relations. Because of this structure, I'll have to continually exceed expectations for the next 20 years to climb the ladder if I want to find myself in a lead design position here. Because I would rather not do this, I could set off on my own in 10 years when I feel experienced enough to be their competition.
To answer the first half of your question, yes, if you are more productive than your coworkers, your value will increase, and then you will be promoted. You already knew this though.
StarchitectAlpha, White America. I'm stuck in the realm of romanticized career paths, where when I was in elementary school most of my friends and classmates had big dreams. They wanted to be astronauts, professional athletes, marine biologists, surgeons, racecar drivers, or the POTUS. But then they underachieved somewhere along the line and let those aspirations fall through the cracks of complacency. I differed from them in that I wanted to be my generation's Frank Lloyd Wright (at least before I found out about his abhorrent interpersonal life), and I never let that dream go when everyone else realized they weren't cut out to achieve the pinnacles of success they had playfully prescribed to themselves before they knew what reality was. Even though I'm exceptionally gifted for my age in this profession, I will still have to pay my dues and demonstrate the utmost levels of persistence and dedication in order to see my time come. That's a little frustrating when you're like me and feel like Mark Zuckerberg, but I understand these restraints because our industry involves housing a global society at every scale (residential, commercial, civic, health/wellness, transportation, etc.) rather than entertaining them with social media.
Asset managers don't control what the building's exterior looks like to passersby, and they don't control or influence how the building's occupant feels in the internal spaces or how they approach the entry from the sidewalk. You already know this. I wish you'd be less pessimistic.
I'm just typing because I like the sound of my own keyboard at this point. I feel like Richard Water Closet Balkins with how redundant I'm being. I apologize to everyone on behalf of this imitation.
StarchitectAlpha
Nov 18, 15 7:19 pm
Good luck sir, you are obviously a very hard working individual and love what you do. When I work on the business side I'll drop you a line and you can figure out the entrance on my building. For free of course because you answer to a higher calling than financial gain.
zonker
Nov 18, 15 7:49 pm
BR.TN has it down - that's how it is - do what it takes or end up working for those who do
white America. I'm stuck in the realm of romanticized career paths, where when I was in elementary school most of my friends and classmates had big dreams. They wanted to be astronauts, professional athletes, marine biologists, surgeons, racecar drivers, or the POTUS. But then they underachieved somewhere along the line and let those aspirations fall through the cracks of complacency. E.G., THE 98% SYNDROME
losers quit and winners never quit
zonker
Nov 18, 15 7:55 pm
BR.TN
Even though I'm exceptionally gifted for my age in this profession
How so? that's pretty arrogant - typical in this profession - can you back it up?
tduds
Nov 18, 15 7:57 pm
Followup: What age are you?
awaiting_deletion
Nov 18, 15 8:21 pm
the bad men have stopped but still pretty busy. its like a smooth landing into the holiday season; will probably follow with the usual lull until March
zonker
Nov 18, 15 9:08 pm
BR.TN
I started at a corporate firm(SOM) if you didn't have it - they got rid of you - I lasted 1 1/2 years then the recession - game over - its been a lone hard slog sense then working temp at 3rd rate firms
ArchNyen
Nov 18, 15 9:33 pm
Thanks for the reply everyone. I especially enjoy the lengthy story by bundy. Nice to have professional feedback from experience architects other than Richard Balkins (that guy has made a name for himself on archinect hasn't he).
Seems like this trend has gotten off track a bit, but I do enjoy the conversations...
My next questions would be.
I have this love/hate relationship w/ my job. There has always been good/bad aspects, some more than others at certain firms. What are the most important aspects for you at your current or past firm?
Do not spare the details, I like stories. Please do entertain.
BR.TN
Nov 18, 15 11:31 pm
StarchitectAlpha, "When I work on the business side I'll drop you a line and you can figure out the entrance on my building. For free of course because you answer to a higher calling than financial gain."
If all I had to do was "figure it out" for you, it would take less than an hour and I'd probably do it for free anyways.
Xenakis, "How so? that's pretty arrogant - typical in this profession - can you back it up?"
The most objective way I can back that up is to say at 14 years old I was designing at the equivalent skill level of an average second-or-third-year undergrad student.
--------------
ArchNyen,
The most important aspect for me at my current firm is learning how to run a business that has almost 300 employees, because I would like to own my own office someday. It's also important for me to empathize through the mistakes of others so that I can minimize my own. Moving forward, the most important aspects for me will be learning to work as efficiently as possible when submitting design competitions, and how to exercise a project's budget or gain other means of acquiring capital. Cue StarchitectAlpha.
no_form
Nov 18, 15 11:51 pm
Brtn, you cray.
no_form
Nov 18, 15 11:55 pm
OP. what I find most important is that there is a level of respect both ways between junior and senior staff. Where each can learn from each other, listen to each other, and share common goals.
curtkram
Nov 19, 15 7:44 am
14 principals who get first priority in the conceptual design after self-sufficiently reeling in a client. . .
it's likely the 14 principals are where they are because they reel in clients. that's what they do that adds value to the firm, so that quality is probably what those people are looking for when promoting someone to that position.
you're exceeding expectations doing what? if the value you add to your firm is being a draftsman that works weekends, then you will be a draftsman that works weekends. if the value you add to your firm is managing staff then you might get into a position where you're managing staff. if your value is bringing in work and doing what your principals do, then you might become a principal.
can you think of specific examples in your company where the three points you mention get someone promoted to principal? does your belief in how your company is managed come from honest observation of your company, or from a belief system that tells you how you think a company should be managed?
geezertect
Nov 19, 15 7:54 am
^ Oh, let BR.TN keep the illusion that all of that dedication to the mother art will pay off in the end. Reality will sink in after a few years. Virginity will be lost eventually.
3tk
Nov 19, 15 10:37 am
9-6 doing what you're told doesn't get you or your team much - get better at what you do takes a long time in a 9-6 setting. Here's what I did, and I think it sets a good example:
In college I was involved outside of school with a local professional organization in engineering. I wasn't the best student in engineering but I had contacts in every large firm around town, and the managers at those firms knew I spent a lot of time asking questions on climbing the ranks, business management, and taking an interest in the history of the profession - this lead to my appreciation for my engineering and surveying consultants and I have a better relationship with many of them than most in my current job. I also took an AutoCAD course as an elective in the school of architecture b/c I thought it would help me (it did). In addition I petitioned to try out architecture studio courses to test out the field (as an elective).
In grad school I spent a lot of time chatting up local professionals at bars, reading magazines on the latest and greatest projects and on how to detail various components (thank you DETAIL magazine!).
In every job I tried to learn a specific skill set: surveying, road construction, business development, permitting and local approval processes; at night I played around on Adobe and web design. I made it a point to read up on AutoCAD shortcuts and workflows and have conversations with my peers on standards, libraries and archiving. Every boss I've had has been open to me about how valuable/profitable I am at what I do - I use it to leverage time for more senior people to spend time teaching me new skills or to take time off to attend conferences liberally or to spend time on marketing (I enjoy web design and finding metrics on publicity).
I'm not saying just work longer (though that does make getting the IDP hours faster)- I'm saying find ways to improve yourself. My reward was the constant stream of people I respect asking me to go work for them and seeing that I can make a comfortable living even in big cities like DC and NYC. I also now have enough respect from my bosses and peers that they let me run projects almost entirely on my own design/approvals/production. It wasn't a short road, but I'm still less than 10yrs out of school.
You may not get rewards at your current job, but the next one might be a bigger step than otherwise. I still talk to all my former bosses - sometimes sending work to them (they're all in different sectors); in many ways they're my team of mentors.
Most importantly, I'm very happy doing what I do. Almost every day.
StarchitectAlpha
Nov 19, 15 10:38 am
BRTN you aren't factoring in the time for when I make you move the front door around 6" 22x And even with my horrible sense of design I'm the client, it's my building and read a coffee table book on architecture last week so I know best, do as I say!!!!
JLC-1
Nov 19, 15 11:01 am
at 14 years old I was designing at the equivalent skill level of an average second-or-third-year undergrad student.
and the only thing that has grown since is the ego?
BR.TN
Nov 19, 15 11:41 am
JLC-1, that's only if you think the average second year undergrad in architecture does commendable work.
zonker
Nov 19, 15 11:52 am
BR.TN
My dear boy
at 14 years old I was designing at the equivalent skill level of an average second-or-third-year undergrad student.
at age 7, My father and Grandmother taught me how to design houses and at age 10, designed and built a small house in the back of our main house - no it wasn't an outhouse - and it was built to code with a building permit - In Bakersfield, lots of folks built 1,2 or 3 buildings behind the main house and that's how In got started - I ain't no architectural prodigy either. And one of my Design leads at Rockstar games he got started at age 14.
How is it looking?
It's beginning to look a lot like Christmas.
Looks good, but in a few weeks the holiday season starts and things get crazy with people taking vacations and all.
What city and what sector are you looking to land a position in?
Recession within the next two years. Hold on to your butts!
You almost sound excited fr.
I posted this long reaction to the NCARB licensure path article last night and after re-reading it this morning felt it germane to this topic. Excuse the length but this is my opinion as someone with 30+ years experience, 26 years as a firm owner or partner;
I feel the need to weigh in on this very important topic affecting our profession. NCARB is not the gate keeper of our vocation though try they may. The profession is a body of individuals that have proven the necessary skill, aptitude and reliability to ensure the health, safety and wellness of the general public. People always attack that last part, especially the young who can be forgiven for their ignorance of the fact that not long ago Architects did the critical design on the majority buildings built in this country. We did (and some still do ) their own engineering and mechanical design hiring engineers as consultants to consult, not shed liability. Engineering was a task done inside the Architect's studio by us or an engineer in our employ. This was and is our true power center as a profession because it is how we fulfill the mandate to protect the health and welfare of the general public, make a real dollar and earned god dam respect. In this age of great size be it the big firm, the big bank, the big government agency, there exists an ever increasing desperation to control, everything, including our profession but the folly of this age is that control is fleeting, destroying the very thing it means to protect. I've been in this business a long time and it's never been as hollow as it is now. There is no work. You may see tower crains in your city participating in one of the biggest multifamily, higher education and hotel expansions in the last 50 years but there's little need for us on the other end of that process. I have managed 20 architects which was a medium sized studio at one time which can now be done by 5 people. I used to sit at the right hand of the client at meetings and now sit at the middle of the table behind the boxed lunch, superintendent, manager and contractor. I didn't willingly give up my stature, you, the educators did that to us. Maybe you never like us or were just unhappy people. For 40 years the schools in the country have one by one abandoned a solid, principled design education buttressed by engineering, mechanics, art and history in favor of fashion, style and modish education pumping out graduates in such huge numbers that ranks have been bloated for decades and mostly with human flotsam. For 15 years this profession has been shedding 5%-10% of it's members per year and yet the schools keep turning out more desperate debtors guaranteed to give up and find sustenance in another field about 2 years after the first kid comes ( I've seen it more times than I care to remember). Fees have never been thinner while staff asked to do more. If you existed in the wholly private sector in 1999 you probably don't exist anymore. I cold called over 120 developers in 2 states last week and have 2 potential leads for maybe something they are looking at next year - that's as good as nothing. As a firm owner I am now asked to hard bid architectural services against 5 or 6 firms routinely because we are just a spreadsheet entry. In my office complex there's been a never ending stream of young Architectural start ups come and go for the last 20 years - some even ballooning to 40 or 50 people before spectacularly exploding with broken lives, failed marriages and massive debts. Those were the good times. I get so many resumes today it's like 2009 never ended, and you should see them, Harvard! For Christ's sake. How bad is it Harvard grads want to work on power center outlots or some TOD apartment where we struggle to get 10 inches more out of each unit? This is the reality the educators want to release a fresh new wave of debt ridden dreamers into, a reality wheres there's maybe 1 job for 10 people and the irony is you just might get that job at graduation, and then that's it because I don't have room for you beyond drafting and modeling, I've got 2 guys with over 20 years each for that, the other firm owners in my local AIA chapter certainly don't have room, so where is all this "demand growth" occurring because revenues aren't indicating this? Of those developers I contacted last week over a third now do design in-house. Your school probably told you the future was design based, no need for hard knowledge right? Well guess who's doing that now - your clients. If you were around residential in the 90s you saw the home builders take design in the residential single family sector, then it spread to retail shopping centers, now it's everywhere. Marketing firms now offer architectural design, and increasingly win it. So good luck with that hot handed design skill you polished for 6 years, your going to be drafting for a MRED with a knocked off copy of auto cad. And if you think interior design is going to offer some relief your right, it's one of the only profit centers left for my firm but I employ 2 interior designers to do interior design, not architects. Sadly I have found through the years Architects, especially young ones, cant hold a candle to most interior design graduates when it actually comes to thoughtful, saleable design. Hell most cant even draw any more or do a simple marker sketch but the interior design kids all can and it's still the best jaw dropper when sitting across from a client - human talent. You can draw and they cant. To conclude my ranting I just have to say NCARB, the schools, the people on these committees, they are all either misguided or worse. I would hate to call it a financial fraud but we live in an age where fraud is the norm. From the fountainhead of debt springs power, debt is the master's whip in this age. The country stopped expanding about 30 years after we built out California and it's been bullshitting itself ever since. The banks know this, we don't make a whole lot anymore so YOU and your debt is the commodity to being bought and sold keeping this old dynamo of capitalism going. The school administrators know the game is coming to end as enrollments started to level off so they needed to sweeten up the promises. Just remember - promises make debts, but debts make promises. The best act of defiance you could possibly do is to tell the educators, "No, I will not be a victim of your fraud", because I can assure you there will be no Architecture profession left for you to enter in 10 years, but you will still be paying the price of admission for at least 20.
All hail Great Wall of Text!
Crap, there goes my lunch break
bundy is right - the schools crank out these grasshopper kids that can't do door schedules and details - either they are going to work for BIG, Zaha, REX or some game company - they have a lot to learn before they can do 95% of the typical buildings going up - call it TOD call it blow n Go - its architectural reality
The last statistics I read were from Architect Magazine about a year ago and stated there are about 30,000 people enrolled right now in IDP with NCARB. The entire Architectural industry only employs an estimated 100,000 people and shrinks each year a sit adjusts to market demand and technological advances. The funnel is simply too great and professional Architects need to step up and take the schools back. They've been captured by the education industry and no longer educate but rather produce debtors. I cant even accept that an Architecture degree is even worth the paper it's printed on anymore and would very well support bringing back apprenticeship as an avenue to licensure with stricter examination requirements before supporting this NCARB critical path nonsense.
the next recession - 2 - 3 years from now will cull out many - thereby adjusting the ratio to a more realistic level -
finally go around to reading this - I agree that NCARB's predictions regarding a collapse in the number of architects doesn't' make any sense looking at their own numbers.
However, with the exception of a pretty bad 2010-11, my experience has generally been very good. Even when I was recently laid off I had a new, and better, job within a few weeks. Business seems to be really booming now, and while that won't last, I'm really curious as to why you don't seem to be sharing in the wealth of work.
(I assume that is Michigan is doing well the rest of the country must be doing even better)
Shuellmi, We are busy right now but there is nothing scheduled for next year. Our pipeline has dried up in the last 3 months. Midwest here, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan and Iowa are all states we do work in. The last quarterly survey had the Midwest as most billings too, which we did have decent billings. We got battered in 07, 08, 09 and into 10. 11 was ok with a skeleton staff and we made money our back in 12, 13, and first part of 14. It started slowing last winter and by this point in 15 I'm convinced we are into a recession or on the edge of a nasty one.
bundy is correct. The schools are the real problem.
"For 40 years the schools in the country have one by one abandoned a solid, principled design education buttressed by engineering, mechanics, art and history in favor of fashion, style and modish education pumping out graduates in such huge numbers that ranks have been bloated for decades and mostly with human flotsam. For 15 years this profession has been shedding 5%-10% of it's members per year and yet the schools keep turning out more desperate debtors guaranteed to give up and find sustenance in another field about 2 years after the first kid comes ( I've seen it more times than I care to remember)."
Countdown to the next recession, er Great Depression for architecture 3...2...1...
schools - too much emphasis on presentation skills, Parametric design. history and theory - too much training to be the next Bjarke Ingels - and not enough production skills
I agree with Bundy, the profession has dropped its technical roots and opted towards a self righteous holier than thou artistic image. Which basically takes a valuable professional and turns him/her into a luxury artist, shrinking job prospects from managing every building to designing fringe buildings. I think another issue is that the profession has also failed to keep up with the times. I remember back in school our software professor said "these new programs don't allow you to do the same with less time, you'll end up doing more for the same amount of time." However the profession has attempted to give the same product (drafted plans and specs) for the same price without expanding scope. Adding energy analysis, value engineering, material take offs other valuable services that clients will pay for and keep us managing the design implementation and would be so helpful during design rather then getting done when the contractor firm gets a hold of the bid documents. Increasingly the valuable services of actually figuring out how to put the technical parts of the building together or how to reduce costs through materials or efficient green design is snatched up by "consultants" when a project has a construction manager, contractor who acts as the value engineer, engineer team (MEP structural whatever) green energy consultant, landscape consultant, interior design consultant, ect ect, the architect working on normal projects is essentially the "draftertect" and right now Draftertects are an extremely outsource-able profession that can be done anywhere with some with access to a laptop and autoCAD LT
the profession has dropped its technical roots and opted towards a self righteous holier than thou artistic image.
I must hear this 100 times for every self-righteous, holier than thou "artist"-tect I actually meet. It would seem to me that the vast majority of our profession is fed up with the state of the profession, but seems to think they're the lone rebellious voice. What if we realized we are the bulk of the profession and we have a voice in its future? Why not stand up and do something?
As for the second point, buildings are far more complicated than they were 100, 50, even 20 years ago. It's simply not realistic to expect a sole Architect to have a good enough command of the dozens of overlapping complex systems that make a modern building function. We need consultants, we need structural, mechanical, geotechnical, horticultural, sustainability, construction, etc. experts to put their full energy into the systems they have expertise in. Our job as architects is 1) to understand how they weave together, and 2) know just enough to know when our consultants are bullshitting us.
The more time I spend in a professional office and outside of heady academia (though I love the theoretical realm), the more I view my job as similar to that of an orchestra conductor. It's not my job to play all the instruments, but rather to guide the players into harmony.
This got a bit off-topic. Back to OP: I can't speak to the nation as a whole but the Pacific Northwest is on fire right now. We can't hire fast enough.
+++ tduds
I do wonder for the libertarian leaning states if the next recession is going to be more serious than outright deregulation of the profession that seems to be becoming closer to reality.
The NE and Mid-Atlantic as well as the larger Midwest cities are currently doing really well, though the rapid crash that many did not foresee has firms edgy. As for the education, it will be curious to see what the expectation of graduates is slated to be: do they realistically want everyone to become a traditional architect? More and more programs seem to be more focused on graduating students with skill sets that are not a good fit for traditional practice but may be useful for others.
The current issue I have with the schools is a lack of 'first in, last out' mentality, or at the bare minimum an understanding of the corellation billing/overhead to salaries - too many of the staff taking their sweet time on renderings and avoiding CD production work, then asking for loads of time off and raises. That and the lack of initiative to go learn outside of 9-6 hours on everything related to the work - work ethic should have been pushed in school without having the all-nighter culture.
To answer the OP: NYC/DC/Boston is hopping, but entry level is still very competitive, mid-level and senior level is a seller's market somewhat offsetting the pains of the recession. The firm owners are optimistic but staying very real in new hires and expecting a lot of work, partially do to clients expecting recession level work to cost ratio.
OP, if you can use/bullshit your way through Revit and can use Sketchup people will be banging down the door for you. most employers don't really give a shit if you can design or sketch (even if they say hand sketching is sooo important). They just need people to produce drawings and sexy renderings.
If you want to advance beyond rendering and revit wiz you need to fight for every inch. Finding mentors, building trust to show you can do more technical work like figuring out water proofing details or a workable solution to a bathroom layout is a challenge for young grads. Basically do all you can to learn how to put together a building in whatever market you're in. if you get into residential, don't stay for long. it's the worst market in any down turn.
I was reading an interview with Hoon Moon, he said that persistence is more important than mostly all else in this industry. Since most employers do not value their employees much just learn what you can, build connections with your fellow grunts, sales reps, contractors, and anyone else you meet, negotiate with employers for the most money you can, and then move on when something better arises.
Well this read was depressing.
no_form - that is the way it is - it only took me 6.5 years and 12 firms before the P.A.s would let me do any design - you have to fight for every inch - I find I have to be real forceful with people esp. those who won't let me figure things out on my own
3tk - no work ethic? Where's my initiative to learn stuff outside of 9-6? What incentive do I have to do that? Work my butt off to earn 80k in my forties working on strip malls where I'm completely disposable because there's a million like me? Typical work harder not smarter mentality I'm talking about.
And if you want drafters hire drafters, why hire art architecture students? Of course they are going to avoid production.
Starchitect-Your initiative to learn after hours is where you develop your niche that sets you apart and keeps you valuable. Which id call smarter not harder. You need a plan or some goals. Otherwise you'll get tossed around with every dip and rise of the economy.
Xenakis-exactly.
12 firms in 6.5 years??
Maybe try sticking around for more than 6 months and people will trust you enough to give you some responsibility.
tduds: fuck that. YOLO. seriously.
I do have initiative and work on stuff in the evening, night classes for a career that actually provides incentives. Why work harder in a career with no reward.
tduds
most of my exp was temp - it was tough to find a firm where I could make it to a direct position - e.g., I was too typical average for too long - the read "No Excuses" By Brian Tracy
StarchitectBeta, the reward is our built environment, chump. We all traded higher-than-average financial earnings in order to actually have a fun and extremely rewarding job. I have a friend who's 23 and is an investment analyst for Goldman Sachs in Manhattan. He makes twice as much as I do, but his job is half as enjoyable. Even worse, in 20 years he'll only have a padded savings account to show for it, and I'll have a portfolio of built work across the country and many lives I've impacted with my own talent. The only mental ecstasy he is going to experience in his life from here-on-out is when I design a kickass home for him.
Ever hear about how the average employee only gets 4 hours of work done during an 8 hour day? Well, that's because they're complacent. Those who get promoted or those who have further opportunities are those who get 8 hours of work done during an 8 hour day. Robots? Maybe...
My incentive to "learn stuff outside of 9-6" is to be more successful than my peers who don't.
i like to think there are places like what you describe br.tn. does it actually work that way, where you will get to design the built environment because you put in 8 hours of actual work, or do other people get to design the built environment while you watch? just curious as to whether you're explaining how your office works, or how you think it should work.
BRTN what make believe land do you live in? Asset managers have more control of the built environment than architects do.
curtkram, I work in a corporate office with 14 principals who get first priority in the conceptual design after self-sufficiently reeling in a client, and then they monitor the project while one of our 30 PA's gets the rest of the work done with a project team of 5-10 people like me. Those who are promoted to the level of principal are promoted for three reasons: 1) their work ethic, 2) their design talent, 3) their ability to be self-sufficient in client relations. Because of this structure, I'll have to continually exceed expectations for the next 20 years to climb the ladder if I want to find myself in a lead design position here. Because I would rather not do this, I could set off on my own in 10 years when I feel experienced enough to be their competition.
To answer the first half of your question, yes, if you are more productive than your coworkers, your value will increase, and then you will be promoted. You already knew this though.
StarchitectAlpha, White America. I'm stuck in the realm of romanticized career paths, where when I was in elementary school most of my friends and classmates had big dreams. They wanted to be astronauts, professional athletes, marine biologists, surgeons, racecar drivers, or the POTUS. But then they underachieved somewhere along the line and let those aspirations fall through the cracks of complacency. I differed from them in that I wanted to be my generation's Frank Lloyd Wright (at least before I found out about his abhorrent interpersonal life), and I never let that dream go when everyone else realized they weren't cut out to achieve the pinnacles of success they had playfully prescribed to themselves before they knew what reality was. Even though I'm exceptionally gifted for my age in this profession, I will still have to pay my dues and demonstrate the utmost levels of persistence and dedication in order to see my time come. That's a little frustrating when you're like me and feel like Mark Zuckerberg, but I understand these restraints because our industry involves housing a global society at every scale (residential, commercial, civic, health/wellness, transportation, etc.) rather than entertaining them with social media.
Asset managers don't control what the building's exterior looks like to passersby, and they don't control or influence how the building's occupant feels in the internal spaces or how they approach the entry from the sidewalk. You already know this. I wish you'd be less pessimistic.
I'm just typing because I like the sound of my own keyboard at this point. I feel like Richard Water Closet Balkins with how redundant I'm being. I apologize to everyone on behalf of this imitation.
Good luck sir, you are obviously a very hard working individual and love what you do. When I work on the business side I'll drop you a line and you can figure out the entrance on my building. For free of course because you answer to a higher calling than financial gain.
BR.TN has it down - that's how it is - do what it takes or end up working for those who do
white America. I'm stuck in the realm of romanticized career paths, where when I was in elementary school most of my friends and classmates had big dreams. They wanted to be astronauts, professional athletes, marine biologists, surgeons, racecar drivers, or the POTUS. But then they underachieved somewhere along the line and let those aspirations fall through the cracks of complacency. E.G., THE 98% SYNDROME
losers quit and winners never quit
BR.TN
Even though I'm exceptionally gifted for my age in this profession
How so? that's pretty arrogant - typical in this profession - can you back it up?
Followup: What age are you?
the bad men have stopped but still pretty busy. its like a smooth landing into the holiday season; will probably follow with the usual lull until March
BR.TN
I started at a corporate firm(SOM) if you didn't have it - they got rid of you - I lasted 1 1/2 years then the recession - game over - its been a lone hard slog sense then working temp at 3rd rate firms
Thanks for the reply everyone. I especially enjoy the lengthy story by bundy. Nice to have professional feedback from experience architects other than Richard Balkins (that guy has made a name for himself on archinect hasn't he).
Seems like this trend has gotten off track a bit, but I do enjoy the conversations...
My next questions would be.
I have this love/hate relationship w/ my job. There has always been good/bad aspects, some more than others at certain firms. What are the most important aspects for you at your current or past firm?
Do not spare the details, I like stories. Please do entertain.
StarchitectAlpha, "When I work on the business side I'll drop you a line and you can figure out the entrance on my building. For free of course because you answer to a higher calling than financial gain."
If all I had to do was "figure it out" for you, it would take less than an hour and I'd probably do it for free anyways.
Xenakis, "How so? that's pretty arrogant - typical in this profession - can you back it up?"
The most objective way I can back that up is to say at 14 years old I was designing at the equivalent skill level of an average second-or-third-year undergrad student.
--------------
ArchNyen,
The most important aspect for me at my current firm is learning how to run a business that has almost 300 employees, because I would like to own my own office someday. It's also important for me to empathize through the mistakes of others so that I can minimize my own. Moving forward, the most important aspects for me will be learning to work as efficiently as possible when submitting design competitions, and how to exercise a project's budget or gain other means of acquiring capital. Cue StarchitectAlpha.
Brtn, you cray.
OP. what I find most important is that there is a level of respect both ways between junior and senior staff. Where each can learn from each other, listen to each other, and share common goals.
14 principals who get first priority in the conceptual design after self-sufficiently reeling in a client. . .
it's likely the 14 principals are where they are because they reel in clients. that's what they do that adds value to the firm, so that quality is probably what those people are looking for when promoting someone to that position.
you're exceeding expectations doing what? if the value you add to your firm is being a draftsman that works weekends, then you will be a draftsman that works weekends. if the value you add to your firm is managing staff then you might get into a position where you're managing staff. if your value is bringing in work and doing what your principals do, then you might become a principal.
can you think of specific examples in your company where the three points you mention get someone promoted to principal? does your belief in how your company is managed come from honest observation of your company, or from a belief system that tells you how you think a company should be managed?
^ Oh, let BR.TN keep the illusion that all of that dedication to the mother art will pay off in the end. Reality will sink in after a few years. Virginity will be lost eventually.
9-6 doing what you're told doesn't get you or your team much - get better at what you do takes a long time in a 9-6 setting. Here's what I did, and I think it sets a good example:
In college I was involved outside of school with a local professional organization in engineering. I wasn't the best student in engineering but I had contacts in every large firm around town, and the managers at those firms knew I spent a lot of time asking questions on climbing the ranks, business management, and taking an interest in the history of the profession - this lead to my appreciation for my engineering and surveying consultants and I have a better relationship with many of them than most in my current job. I also took an AutoCAD course as an elective in the school of architecture b/c I thought it would help me (it did). In addition I petitioned to try out architecture studio courses to test out the field (as an elective).
In grad school I spent a lot of time chatting up local professionals at bars, reading magazines on the latest and greatest projects and on how to detail various components (thank you DETAIL magazine!).
In every job I tried to learn a specific skill set: surveying, road construction, business development, permitting and local approval processes; at night I played around on Adobe and web design. I made it a point to read up on AutoCAD shortcuts and workflows and have conversations with my peers on standards, libraries and archiving. Every boss I've had has been open to me about how valuable/profitable I am at what I do - I use it to leverage time for more senior people to spend time teaching me new skills or to take time off to attend conferences liberally or to spend time on marketing (I enjoy web design and finding metrics on publicity).
I'm not saying just work longer (though that does make getting the IDP hours faster)- I'm saying find ways to improve yourself. My reward was the constant stream of people I respect asking me to go work for them and seeing that I can make a comfortable living even in big cities like DC and NYC. I also now have enough respect from my bosses and peers that they let me run projects almost entirely on my own design/approvals/production. It wasn't a short road, but I'm still less than 10yrs out of school.
You may not get rewards at your current job, but the next one might be a bigger step than otherwise. I still talk to all my former bosses - sometimes sending work to them (they're all in different sectors); in many ways they're my team of mentors.
Most importantly, I'm very happy doing what I do. Almost every day.
BRTN you aren't factoring in the time for when I make you move the front door around 6" 22x And even with my horrible sense of design I'm the client, it's my building and read a coffee table book on architecture last week so I know best, do as I say!!!!
at 14 years old I was designing at the equivalent skill level of an average second-or-third-year undergrad student.
and the only thing that has grown since is the ego?
JLC-1, that's only if you think the average second year undergrad in architecture does commendable work.
BR.TN
My dear boy
at 14 years old I was designing at the equivalent skill level of an average second-or-third-year undergrad student.
at age 7, My father and Grandmother taught me how to design houses and at age 10, designed and built a small house in the back of our main house - no it wasn't an outhouse - and it was built to code with a building permit - In Bakersfield, lots of folks built 1,2 or 3 buildings behind the main house and that's how In got started - I ain't no architectural prodigy either. And one of my Design leads at Rockstar games he got started at age 14.