I have lurked for awhile and read a bunch of threads on academia and M.Arch, and many seem to degenerate into ornery complaints about architect salaries and costs of schools. All of which seems fair to me. In any case:
I have a Bachelor's from UNC Asheville in Anthropology, and I want to get a M.Arch. I have no real interest in high-level, corporate firms (not aiming to be a starchitect). I am interested in all the trendy sustainability/green design and land use/planning stuff. I'm more interested in the rural than the urban, though not strongly so. I am not interested in architecture for art-house conceptual design nor the money (as I'm sure you'll all assure me is good). I would like to draw from anthropology to inform sustainable designs, and eventually find/form a niche working with intentional communities of all kinds, from hippie communes to co-housing, etc. I have found little-to-no evidence of many people combining these two fields, and am confident in my vision -- but not the reality of the practice.
So, I have questions for you all. I have researched these, but would like to crowdsource answers and opinions from the Archinect brain trust.
For the record, as I prepare to take the GRE and apply to schools -- I have a 3.6 gpa, good transcripts and recommendations, but no real design experience outside of one solar home design class. I do have excellent writing and conceptual skills, and have given considerable thought to sense of place via anthro. Not much math/physics education, but some capacity for it through my father, who did applied math at MIT back in the day. Lots of schools say they accept students like myself, provided their portfolios demonstrate talent/potential/initiative/etc. Is that true in reality? Are there any pitfalls to avoid in creating a portfolio no matter the school? They all imply or explicitly request 3D design work be included, even for M.Arch I. Determining the best way to approach portfolio-building has proven the hardest, most vague hoop to jump through.
Being practicing architects, what schools do you hear about, or have experience with, that are well-regarded as being focused on SD/etc? I hear Oregon, Berkley, maybe Austin? My shortlist of schools to apply to: NC State and UNCC for state-based, affordable options; UVA because I understand it's a good bang for your buck; Berkley and Oregon for SD; MIT for the Ivy option, with the note that my dad went there undergrad and I'd like to at least give it a shot. Any obvious MIAs or ones to drop?
As a follow-up, would it be worth going more into debt for a SD-oriented school that's out-of-state, or just staying in North Carolina and going to NC State, then carving my way from there? (Again, not trying to romanticize)
Taking a page from another thread, would anyone recommend getting concurrent/dual-degrees? Perhaps in RED or SD? Or just foregoing M.Arch and getting a degree in planning? I don't mind paying dues, but I definitely can't reconcile designing gas stations with my whole green design angle.
I apologize for the wall-of-text, and thank you in advance for any insight given. I imagine more questions will come to mind.
Brittain
Nov 13, 15 9:09 pm
I would like to pose another question: what's the source of all the discontent with the state of the profession? A lot of posts by people I assume are practicing architects mention CAD monkeys and so on -- is this a fair analysis of the average architect, or does Archinect follow the rest of the internet in excess pessimism?
geezertect
Nov 13, 15 9:09 pm
Whew! Anyway, I don't see anything resembling a concrete job description above. Before you start weighing M.Arch programs, you need to figure out what you actually want to DO and whether an architecture degree is necessary or even helpful. Get focused first. Don't go to dental school if you really want to be an airline pilot.
Brittain
Nov 13, 15 9:15 pm
Fair enough, but let's say that I'm certain I want to be an architect -- UNLESS there's some realities that my bright-eyed youth doesn't see from the outside, in which case I could get down with an adjacent degree ala planning
I would like to draw from anthropology to inform sustainable designs, and eventually find/form a niche working with intentional communities of all kinds, from hippie communes to co-housing, etc
This doesn't sound like something requiring an architecture license, although I'm not really sure what it sounds like. A little vaporous to say the least.
Anyway, a M.Arch program is geared to getting a license. Other posters can opine on the merits of various schools. I've been out of school too long to have a feel for who is doing what. Don't incur debt to pursue a license track if you don't need to. Expensive waste of time.
The pros and cons of being an architect have been exhaustively discussed elsewhere. You know all the arguments already.
Brittain
Nov 14, 15 12:43 am
I see your point. I was being too general. Anthropology deals with other cultures, and often with their sense of place, and their ways of place-making. Basically, I want to use anthropology to inform architecture. I want to use architecture as a means to an end. That end is: work with intentional communities and on intentionalizing more conventional communities, from suburban houses/communties to urban apartments.
I'm not asking for feedback on that idea, because that's a personal-vision thing. I could feasibly go for community planning, or something else adjacent to architecture; I just prefer architecture, for a lot of reasons, and have liked it more and more the more I learn. I'm more interested in the schooling options, and which ones might be more ecologically/interdisciplinarily minded.
That said, if the post-grad job market is particularly bad, etc, I am open to dissuasion. It is true the state of the profession is discussed a lot, here and elsewhere, but not that deeply, and mostly surrounding corporate stuff (from what I can tell).
Anyways, thanks for the feedback.
gruen
Nov 14, 15 6:20 am
Intentional community people don't have any money. Architects work for people with money. *mic drop*
Volunteer
Nov 14, 15 7:56 am
Modern architects generally have nothing but contempt for the existing architecture in the places they are building. You want to make an attractive, modern, building, affordable and maintainable out of quality materials that will reflect the heritage and history of the people and place where you are building? Sounds good to me, but pretty much you will have to teach yourself. Get the least expensive education option, UNCC or NC State, and get busy!
Marc Miller
Nov 14, 15 10:48 am
Another path to consider is attending programs like Design, Apparel and Housing in the College of Design at UMn or the Design and Environmental Program in the College of Human Ecology at Cornell. Both are programs that are based more in the science of design and evidence based problem solving versus the more "traditional" approach, and the UMN program is under the same umbrella as architecture. This may satisfy your desire to marry anthropological research with design.
saswtr
Nov 14, 15 3:05 pm
Brittain,
Can we just go ahead and plan to be business partners after we go through school? I'm completely on the same train of thought as you, but without an anthropology background. I am thinking about ways to get some real estate development training, though, because I feel like it would be more possible to actually get these kind of projects built from that side of the equation.
Have you lived in any intentional communities? I've spent time in Findhorn and at The Farm. Both were great experiences, and have definitely spurred on my interest in Cohousing as a nice balance between super-intentional places and more everyday folks.
Good luck on your journey!
Brittain
Nov 15, 15 12:18 pm
@ Marc Miller: That Cornell program is a great example of a potential alternative, as it fills the niche without the narrowness of a specialized profession. I'm going to look into more programs like this. Thank you very much, extremely helpful.
@ saswtr: I actually linked to your thread earlier on, thinking the same thing! What's your bachelor's, if I may? I agree on the RED. Culturally speaking, I think that incorporating more 'intentionality' and so forth into traditional developments could go a long way towards mainstreaming ICs and generally raise quality of life away from the cubicle-esque suburb, but without going full commune or anything. So, what you said. Cohousing is a great example of that aim, as applied to apartment living.
I haven't lived in any, though I have a fair amount of land in WNC and have wanted one for a long time; it just took me even longer to realize I could make that part of a career goal.
Anyways - hope that makes sense, I'm getting too excited haha
saswtr
Nov 15, 15 7:13 pm
I saw your link! My bachelor's is in Writing (everything from creative to technical), and I did my minor through the Honors College at my school, which gives a philosophy foundation and expands into lots of interdisciplinary areas. I also pretended to be an art minor for a while but didn't actually complete all the requirements.
I think I'm coming down on the side of the B.Arch in my situation, partly so that I can save my pennies for a MRED program after a couple years of professional work. Harvard's program looks really interesting, but Auburn's is also enticing, especially as it's meant for people with full-time jobs. I'm hoping to get in touch with McCamant and Durrett Architects to see if I can get some insight from them, as they've done a lot of the things I'm interested in.
I'd highly recommend visiting any nearby ICs. It's interesting to get a look at how different communities organize and function (both physically and socially), and it's especially interesting if you find someone who will talk about the struggles of the community. Are there any structures on your land yet? That could be a fun laboratory, depending on what building codes and other concerns you have to deal with. I've always dreamt of getting a piece of land and just starting with a screened in pavilion for 3-season visits and planning a homestead from there.
Peter Normand
Nov 15, 15 7:32 pm
Consider Southern Illinois University at Carbondale they are in the rural south of Illinois but an hour from St. Louis and 2.5 hours from Memphis with strong ties to the state wide profession and Chicago. They have a B-Arch which is 5 years an March which is the 2 in the plus 4 and a Bachelors of science. SIUC has a strong tradition of serving veterans and non traditional students so age and ability will not hold you back as long as you can put in the time and effort to learn things, SIUC is very focused on practical architectural skills first and theory and design naval gazing second. Also crammed into the same school as Architecture is fashion design and merchandising and interior design, and the program is smallish so people will know who you are and have greater potential for personal connections with faculty staff and students.
SIUC has the legacy of Buckmeister Fuller and is surrounded by Hippie communes in the Shawnee National Forest.
As for the contempt for the profession I think is emerges from the internal struggle of identity are we artist or engineers? Public servants charged with an oath to do the most good or service providers for the elite and powerful? Do we fully understand we are spending other peoples money to build their dream building or space not ours?
The realities of the profession not meeting peoples expectations and the changes in technology which create generational barriers and stratification within the ranks of the working professionals (cad or Revit) also cause strife. Often a person's lack of software skills is read as a general lack of skills and ability erasing the standing of experience.
Over and OUT
Peter N
Marc Miller
Nov 15, 15 7:37 pm
Go Salukis go!
JMK1
Nov 20, 15 6:34 pm
Brittain,
I can say this from my experience, I had the misfortune of listening to the pessimists, pragmatics really, and decided to veer course and take a job offer. 10 years later I regret that decision horribly and I am trying to gain enough traction to gain ground.
See if you can find an Intro course or summer immersion, it will help you decide either or and if its a go you'll have something for your portfolio. I went the planning route and was thoroughly disappointed, we contracted everything out to A/E firms and just processed paper work. An Architect can do planning but a planner cannot do architecture, thats what it boiled down to for me.
Honestly, another thing I learned in planning was that some of the people pushing the most policy were simply extremely passionate about what they were doing and never took a specific degree to do it. I envy that every month Sallie calls.
Kudos for those who get the Tuchman reference.
I have lurked for awhile and read a bunch of threads on academia and M.Arch, and many seem to degenerate into ornery complaints about architect salaries and costs of schools. All of which seems fair to me. In any case:
I have a Bachelor's from UNC Asheville in Anthropology, and I want to get a M.Arch. I have no real interest in high-level, corporate firms (not aiming to be a starchitect). I am interested in all the trendy sustainability/green design and land use/planning stuff. I'm more interested in the rural than the urban, though not strongly so. I am not interested in architecture for art-house conceptual design nor the money (as I'm sure you'll all assure me is good). I would like to draw from anthropology to inform sustainable designs, and eventually find/form a niche working with intentional communities of all kinds, from hippie communes to co-housing, etc. I have found little-to-no evidence of many people combining these two fields, and am confident in my vision -- but not the reality of the practice.
So, I have questions for you all. I have researched these, but would like to crowdsource answers and opinions from the Archinect brain trust.
For the record, as I prepare to take the GRE and apply to schools -- I have a 3.6 gpa, good transcripts and recommendations, but no real design experience outside of one solar home design class. I do have excellent writing and conceptual skills, and have given considerable thought to sense of place via anthro. Not much math/physics education, but some capacity for it through my father, who did applied math at MIT back in the day. Lots of schools say they accept students like myself, provided their portfolios demonstrate talent/potential/initiative/etc. Is that true in reality? Are there any pitfalls to avoid in creating a portfolio no matter the school? They all imply or explicitly request 3D design work be included, even for M.Arch I. Determining the best way to approach portfolio-building has proven the hardest, most vague hoop to jump through.
Being practicing architects, what schools do you hear about, or have experience with, that are well-regarded as being focused on SD/etc? I hear Oregon, Berkley, maybe Austin? My shortlist of schools to apply to: NC State and UNCC for state-based, affordable options; UVA because I understand it's a good bang for your buck; Berkley and Oregon for SD; MIT for the Ivy option, with the note that my dad went there undergrad and I'd like to at least give it a shot. Any obvious MIAs or ones to drop?
As a follow-up, would it be worth going more into debt for a SD-oriented school that's out-of-state, or just staying in North Carolina and going to NC State, then carving my way from there? (Again, not trying to romanticize)
Taking a page from another thread, would anyone recommend getting concurrent/dual-degrees? Perhaps in RED or SD? Or just foregoing M.Arch and getting a degree in planning? I don't mind paying dues, but I definitely can't reconcile designing gas stations with my whole green design angle.
I apologize for the wall-of-text, and thank you in advance for any insight given. I imagine more questions will come to mind.
I would like to pose another question: what's the source of all the discontent with the state of the profession? A lot of posts by people I assume are practicing architects mention CAD monkeys and so on -- is this a fair analysis of the average architect, or does Archinect follow the rest of the internet in excess pessimism?
Whew! Anyway, I don't see anything resembling a concrete job description above. Before you start weighing M.Arch programs, you need to figure out what you actually want to DO and whether an architecture degree is necessary or even helpful. Get focused first. Don't go to dental school if you really want to be an airline pilot.
Fair enough, but let's say that I'm certain I want to be an architect -- UNLESS there's some realities that my bright-eyed youth doesn't see from the outside, in which case I could get down with an adjacent degree ala planning
This poster has a similar situation, and her B.Arch vs M.Arch dilemma might be relevant to me: http://archinect.com/forum/thread/140908092/b-arch-vs-m-arch-advice
I would like to draw from anthropology to inform sustainable designs, and eventually find/form a niche working with intentional communities of all kinds, from hippie communes to co-housing, etc
This doesn't sound like something requiring an architecture license, although I'm not really sure what it sounds like. A little vaporous to say the least.
Anyway, a M.Arch program is geared to getting a license. Other posters can opine on the merits of various schools. I've been out of school too long to have a feel for who is doing what. Don't incur debt to pursue a license track if you don't need to. Expensive waste of time.
The pros and cons of being an architect have been exhaustively discussed elsewhere. You know all the arguments already.
I see your point. I was being too general. Anthropology deals with other cultures, and often with their sense of place, and their ways of place-making. Basically, I want to use anthropology to inform architecture. I want to use architecture as a means to an end. That end is: work with intentional communities and on intentionalizing more conventional communities, from suburban houses/communties to urban apartments.
I'm not asking for feedback on that idea, because that's a personal-vision thing. I could feasibly go for community planning, or something else adjacent to architecture; I just prefer architecture, for a lot of reasons, and have liked it more and more the more I learn. I'm more interested in the schooling options, and which ones might be more ecologically/interdisciplinarily minded.
That said, if the post-grad job market is particularly bad, etc, I am open to dissuasion. It is true the state of the profession is discussed a lot, here and elsewhere, but not that deeply, and mostly surrounding corporate stuff (from what I can tell).
Anyways, thanks for the feedback.
Intentional community people don't have any money. Architects work for people with money. *mic drop*
Modern architects generally have nothing but contempt for the existing architecture in the places they are building. You want to make an attractive, modern, building, affordable and maintainable out of quality materials that will reflect the heritage and history of the people and place where you are building? Sounds good to me, but pretty much you will have to teach yourself. Get the least expensive education option, UNCC or NC State, and get busy!
Another path to consider is attending programs like Design, Apparel and Housing in the College of Design at UMn or the Design and Environmental Program in the College of Human Ecology at Cornell. Both are programs that are based more in the science of design and evidence based problem solving versus the more "traditional" approach, and the UMN program is under the same umbrella as architecture. This may satisfy your desire to marry anthropological research with design.
Brittain,
Can we just go ahead and plan to be business partners after we go through school? I'm completely on the same train of thought as you, but without an anthropology background. I am thinking about ways to get some real estate development training, though, because I feel like it would be more possible to actually get these kind of projects built from that side of the equation.
Have you lived in any intentional communities? I've spent time in Findhorn and at The Farm. Both were great experiences, and have definitely spurred on my interest in Cohousing as a nice balance between super-intentional places and more everyday folks.
Good luck on your journey!
@ Marc Miller: That Cornell program is a great example of a potential alternative, as it fills the niche without the narrowness of a specialized profession. I'm going to look into more programs like this. Thank you very much, extremely helpful.
@ saswtr: I actually linked to your thread earlier on, thinking the same thing! What's your bachelor's, if I may? I agree on the RED. Culturally speaking, I think that incorporating more 'intentionality' and so forth into traditional developments could go a long way towards mainstreaming ICs and generally raise quality of life away from the cubicle-esque suburb, but without going full commune or anything. So, what you said. Cohousing is a great example of that aim, as applied to apartment living.
I haven't lived in any, though I have a fair amount of land in WNC and have wanted one for a long time; it just took me even longer to realize I could make that part of a career goal.
Anyways - hope that makes sense, I'm getting too excited haha
I saw your link! My bachelor's is in Writing (everything from creative to technical), and I did my minor through the Honors College at my school, which gives a philosophy foundation and expands into lots of interdisciplinary areas. I also pretended to be an art minor for a while but didn't actually complete all the requirements.
I think I'm coming down on the side of the B.Arch in my situation, partly so that I can save my pennies for a MRED program after a couple years of professional work. Harvard's program looks really interesting, but Auburn's is also enticing, especially as it's meant for people with full-time jobs. I'm hoping to get in touch with McCamant and Durrett Architects to see if I can get some insight from them, as they've done a lot of the things I'm interested in.
I'd highly recommend visiting any nearby ICs. It's interesting to get a look at how different communities organize and function (both physically and socially), and it's especially interesting if you find someone who will talk about the struggles of the community. Are there any structures on your land yet? That could be a fun laboratory, depending on what building codes and other concerns you have to deal with. I've always dreamt of getting a piece of land and just starting with a screened in pavilion for 3-season visits and planning a homestead from there.
Consider Southern Illinois University at Carbondale they are in the rural south of Illinois but an hour from St. Louis and 2.5 hours from Memphis with strong ties to the state wide profession and Chicago. They have a B-Arch which is 5 years an March which is the 2 in the plus 4 and a Bachelors of science. SIUC has a strong tradition of serving veterans and non traditional students so age and ability will not hold you back as long as you can put in the time and effort to learn things, SIUC is very focused on practical architectural skills first and theory and design naval gazing second. Also crammed into the same school as Architecture is fashion design and merchandising and interior design, and the program is smallish so people will know who you are and have greater potential for personal connections with faculty staff and students.
SIUC has the legacy of Buckmeister Fuller and is surrounded by Hippie communes in the Shawnee National Forest.
As for the contempt for the profession I think is emerges from the internal struggle of identity are we artist or engineers? Public servants charged with an oath to do the most good or service providers for the elite and powerful? Do we fully understand we are spending other peoples money to build their dream building or space not ours?
The realities of the profession not meeting peoples expectations and the changes in technology which create generational barriers and stratification within the ranks of the working professionals (cad or Revit) also cause strife. Often a person's lack of software skills is read as a general lack of skills and ability erasing the standing of experience.
Over and OUT
Peter N
Go Salukis go!
Brittain,
I can say this from my experience, I had the misfortune of listening to the pessimists, pragmatics really, and decided to veer course and take a job offer. 10 years later I regret that decision horribly and I am trying to gain enough traction to gain ground.
See if you can find an Intro course or summer immersion, it will help you decide either or and if its a go you'll have something for your portfolio. I went the planning route and was thoroughly disappointed, we contracted everything out to A/E firms and just processed paper work. An Architect can do planning but a planner cannot do architecture, thats what it boiled down to for me.
Honestly, another thing I learned in planning was that some of the people pushing the most policy were simply extremely passionate about what they were doing and never took a specific degree to do it. I envy that every month Sallie calls.