I'm putting my grad school applications together (dream school: UCB), but I'm getting to the point where I need to make a tough decision regarding an in-state B.Arch program. My partner is in the final interviews of a job search in the area, but whether or not he takes the job is based on if I want to go this school or not, and I'd need to make the decision before I would have the chance get acceptance/rejection letters from grad schools. If I decide that I do not want to go to this school, he would not take the job, and instead wait for me to hear back from the grad schools I'm applying to, and then search for a job nearby.
My stats:
27 yrs. old
Undergrad GPA: 3.6
Haven't taken the GRE yet, but I test well (32 ACT)
My portfolio consists mostly of textile design projects (sewing and weaving), basic furniture design, film photography, and a natural building (cob) project.
Interests: Sacred space (especially how it might interact with feminism and queer theory), Community-based projects, Cohousing, Vernacular Architecture, Sustainability, etc.
Pros:
Well-regarded program at a Tier 1 state school
Recent grads have high rates of employment
Affordable--we wouldn't need to take on debt to pay for school, but might if it was financially beneficial. This one's a big deal to us. We like not being restricted by debt and the freedom that gives us, even though we don't make crazy amounts of money (currently $24k for me, $50k for him).
Having gen. ed. requirements waived would mean taking a lighter course load (than the regular incoming freshmen) and having the opportunity for work/internships/extra instruction during the semester.
Family lives in the area
Partner would like to stay in the region for his career.
Low cost of living means we could afford to buy a house (about $70k for something in a small town just outside a rapidly growing city).
If we plan to settle down in this area, maybe the networking of having gone to school locally will be more valuable than a more advanced degree?
Cons:
I already have a Bachelor's (in an unrelated field)
It would take longer than an M.Arch
I'd be going to class with 18 year olds... maybe that's ageist of me, but it doesn't sound like the most appealing scenario.
Any more that I'm not considering? Lower salary upon graduation, probably?
Any thoughts or angles I haven't considered would be helpful! Thanks!
anonitect
Nov 12, 15 10:27 am
My vote - stay put, get the B.Arch, and work in the field while you're in school. Experience is the thing that'll get you better jobs in the future, from what I've seen. Sounds like you like it where you are, and architecture grad school is kind of miserable.
(Based on your portfolio, it's worth asking - do you have the math/physics prereqs for admission to Berkeley - if not, add another semester to the time it'll take you to complete the M.Arch.)
Driko
Nov 12, 15 11:18 am
I say go with the Masters. You will be more interested in learning at that level and it will be more bearable to go through. It's also 3yrs vs 5 yrs. if you don't end up liking architecture as a business you can always be a professor in architecture at a school (better hrs and stable pay)
Driko
Nov 12, 15 11:20 am
I say go with the Masters. You will be more interested in learning at that level and it will be more bearable to go through. It's also 3yrs vs 5 yrs. if you don't end up liking architecture as a business you can always be a professor in architecture at a school (better hrs and stable pay)
Driko
Nov 12, 15 11:20 am
I say go with the Masters. You will be more interested in learning at that level and it will be more bearable to go through. It's also 3yrs vs 5 yrs. if you don't end up liking architecture as a business you can always be a professor in architecture at a school (better hrs and stable pay)
BR.TN
Nov 12, 15 12:15 pm
Driko,
"If you dont end up liking architecture as a business you can always become a professor of architecture at a school"
Becoming a professor is far more competitve than that...
Additionally, M.Arch programs are significantly more expensive than B.Arch programs, so your 3yr vs 5yr comparison is only important if you'd rather spend more money to save more time.
OP, $24k at 27 years old? You need a raise.
Driko
Nov 12, 15 8:12 pm
BR.TN
It may be competitive but it is an option. You can always teach at a CC. And it only may be competitive at the top ranked schools that are giving out the most for research. (Because we need to make more parametric walls).
An M.arch maybe more expensive but would the money saved in those two years getting a B.arch be worth it? Your not going to be able to make much while in school. Studio is the bulk of your time and it's usually a class that has something that you need to present 3 times a week.
Also a lot of school will do a Tuition waiver of you can obtain a graduate assists ship position. At UCB that would probably be very difficult but other schools that don't hit the ranks you could probably get one your second year
saswtr
Nov 12, 15 10:29 pm
anonitect, I'd take calculus and physics at a local school this spring before moving over the summer.
Driko, the academia question is one I've considered. I don't see myself wanting to teach anytime soon, but who knows in 20 yrs.
BR.TN, I haven't built up any sort of career since graduating college--I've been following my partner's education and career. Now it's my turn! The job I have is fulfilling, but yeah, I don't make shit :) We did save 40% of our income over the last year, though, so I'm not too sad.
On the one hand I just want to work as an architect, and either route will get me there, but I'm trying to figure out if the pull toward grad school is just ego, or if it will make a substantial difference in the long term. I want to work at a small firm, eventually working for myself, doing projects that allow me to connect on a really personal level with the families or community I'm designing for. I'm not interested in skyscrapers or stadiums, or in working 80 hours a week (and I know school is a different story than professional life. I'll put up with crazy hours in school). I want to make enough money to be secure, save for retirement, and travel, but I'm not worried about anything more (no kids, ever).
anonitect
Nov 13, 15 1:46 pm
Ask a couple of architects in your area for informational interviews, I think you'll get a better idea about what to do talking to people face to face than you will here.
I really don't think that the M.Arch looks much more prestigious than a B.Arch does to people hiring junior staff - again, gaining office experience while you're in school is key. Personally, if I were doing it again (I've got an M.Arch), debt avoidance would be my primary concern, as would making things easy on my significant other. If you go the grad school route, be prepared to not spend much time with them for the duration.
But - sit down with people you can relate to in person, don't take what random chumps on the internet say too seriously.
saswtr
Nov 14, 15 3:09 pm
anonitect, thanks for your thoughtful input. I feel like I've been on a pendulum swinging back and forth, but I'm leaning more toward the B.Arch, and a good chuck of that is quality of life and debt avoidance concerns. Also, I'm thinking it might be a good idea to get some training in real estate development, which I may be able to do through the business school at the University. I'm planning on talking to a few local architects, and hopefully some developers that seem to really care about how they're influencing the local community.
Beepbeep
Nov 14, 15 5:38 pm
You should meet with the B.arch staff and see how long it will take you since you already have a B.S it may be only 3-4 years like an M.arch. They may allow you to double up on some coursework to get it done, they will understand that you are not 18 and have completed all the Gen Ed. I am guessing that there no in state M.arch available? In the work place it does not matter at all which you have as long as you can do the work my office is a mix of it all, IVY , State, B.arch - M.arch and we all do the same thing it comes down to the portfolio you make and the work your become interested in and you go after firms that are similar to your interest .
saswtr
Nov 15, 15 7:38 pm
@Beepbeep, you're correct, there are no M.Arch programs in my state (public or private). The chair of the arch department said that they'd be happy to have me, but she thought I should go for a Master's. They do allow students who didn't declare Arch. as incoming freshman a chance to cram the first year into one summer (apparently it's rough, but doable), so I'm going to see if that might be an option for me, since technically I'm applying to the university as a transfer student. Other than that, there's no doubling up--you have to take all the studios in sequence. I would be taking a lighter course load than the other students, as gen. ed. requirements are waived for students who already have degrees (except I'd probably have to take calculus, since I didn't the first time around). I appreciate your note about the workplace--I had suspected as much, but not had that confirmed.
At this point, I'm leaning toward the B.Arch, which will allow me to get through without debt, and save funds for a MRED after a couple years of professional experience (or another specialized Masters, depending on where my interests take me).
gdub
Mar 19, 16 8:27 pm
Why do you want to a 5 year Bachelor of Architecture after doing a 4 year undergraduate degree? Why put yourself through the torture?
-Weigh the cost of 5 years of part time work and staying put and being stuck in school, versus three years of full time classes/part time work and getting out and getting full time work early.
It will take you a number of years to get licensed once you get out and your salary will be $40,000-$52,000 roughly at that time. I would want to start that process as soon as possible. When I see that you want to go back and do a MRED after the Masters or the B. Arch, that just scares me! Why would you do that to yourself when you are already 27? Do you know how long that is going to take and how long you will be foregoing what you actually want to do and a full time salary? You will be 27+5 years +2 years = 35 when you are done with both? Or, 27+3 +2(MRED) = 32
Do you want to get into development? If so, you don't need both a degree in architecture and an MRED. You would be better off doing an MBA with a focus in real estate development or a MRED just by itself, then go work for a real estate developer. When you work for a developer, you do have an opportunity to influence the design. You could be done in 2 years and a Development Coordinator or Project Coordinator for a Developer with an MRED would probably make $70,000 right out the gate. Your salary will only go up from there. There are lots of people with business degrees who work in real estate development and don't even have an architecture degree/engineering degree or Masters in Real Estate Development.
With respect to architecture, there are lots of jobs out there that specifically look for a Master's degree. They won't care that you have two undergraduate degrees and your B. Arch is essentially like doing a bachelor's plus master's in one.
Don't set yourself back man. All that schooling is not worth it. M. Arch, MRED, MBA w/ Real Estate Specialization or M. ARCH/MRED. Don't do the B.Arch!
I hope something I said above helps you. Good luck!
This may be a weird scenario, but here we go...
I'm putting my grad school applications together (dream school: UCB), but I'm getting to the point where I need to make a tough decision regarding an in-state B.Arch program. My partner is in the final interviews of a job search in the area, but whether or not he takes the job is based on if I want to go this school or not, and I'd need to make the decision before I would have the chance get acceptance/rejection letters from grad schools. If I decide that I do not want to go to this school, he would not take the job, and instead wait for me to hear back from the grad schools I'm applying to, and then search for a job nearby.
My stats:
Pros:
Cons:
Any thoughts or angles I haven't considered would be helpful! Thanks!
My vote - stay put, get the B.Arch, and work in the field while you're in school. Experience is the thing that'll get you better jobs in the future, from what I've seen. Sounds like you like it where you are, and architecture grad school is kind of miserable.
(Based on your portfolio, it's worth asking - do you have the math/physics prereqs for admission to Berkeley - if not, add another semester to the time it'll take you to complete the M.Arch.)
I say go with the Masters. You will be more interested in learning at that level and it will be more bearable to go through. It's also 3yrs vs 5 yrs. if you don't end up liking architecture as a business you can always be a professor in architecture at a school (better hrs and stable pay)
I say go with the Masters. You will be more interested in learning at that level and it will be more bearable to go through. It's also 3yrs vs 5 yrs. if you don't end up liking architecture as a business you can always be a professor in architecture at a school (better hrs and stable pay)
I say go with the Masters. You will be more interested in learning at that level and it will be more bearable to go through. It's also 3yrs vs 5 yrs. if you don't end up liking architecture as a business you can always be a professor in architecture at a school (better hrs and stable pay)
Driko,
"If you dont end up liking architecture as a business you can always become a professor of architecture at a school"
Becoming a professor is far more competitve than that...
Additionally, M.Arch programs are significantly more expensive than B.Arch programs, so your 3yr vs 5yr comparison is only important if you'd rather spend more money to save more time.
OP, $24k at 27 years old? You need a raise.
BR.TN
It may be competitive but it is an option. You can always teach at a CC. And it only may be competitive at the top ranked schools that are giving out the most for research. (Because we need to make more parametric walls).
An M.arch maybe more expensive but would the money saved in those two years getting a B.arch be worth it? Your not going to be able to make much while in school. Studio is the bulk of your time and it's usually a class that has something that you need to present 3 times a week.
Also a lot of school will do a Tuition waiver of you can obtain a graduate assists ship position. At UCB that would probably be very difficult but other schools that don't hit the ranks you could probably get one your second year
anonitect, I'd take calculus and physics at a local school this spring before moving over the summer.
Driko, the academia question is one I've considered. I don't see myself wanting to teach anytime soon, but who knows in 20 yrs.
BR.TN, I haven't built up any sort of career since graduating college--I've been following my partner's education and career. Now it's my turn! The job I have is fulfilling, but yeah, I don't make shit :) We did save 40% of our income over the last year, though, so I'm not too sad.
On the one hand I just want to work as an architect, and either route will get me there, but I'm trying to figure out if the pull toward grad school is just ego, or if it will make a substantial difference in the long term. I want to work at a small firm, eventually working for myself, doing projects that allow me to connect on a really personal level with the families or community I'm designing for. I'm not interested in skyscrapers or stadiums, or in working 80 hours a week (and I know school is a different story than professional life. I'll put up with crazy hours in school). I want to make enough money to be secure, save for retirement, and travel, but I'm not worried about anything more (no kids, ever).
Ask a couple of architects in your area for informational interviews, I think you'll get a better idea about what to do talking to people face to face than you will here.
I really don't think that the M.Arch looks much more prestigious than a B.Arch does to people hiring junior staff - again, gaining office experience while you're in school is key. Personally, if I were doing it again (I've got an M.Arch), debt avoidance would be my primary concern, as would making things easy on my significant other. If you go the grad school route, be prepared to not spend much time with them for the duration.
But - sit down with people you can relate to in person, don't take what random chumps on the internet say too seriously.
anonitect, thanks for your thoughtful input. I feel like I've been on a pendulum swinging back and forth, but I'm leaning more toward the B.Arch, and a good chuck of that is quality of life and debt avoidance concerns. Also, I'm thinking it might be a good idea to get some training in real estate development, which I may be able to do through the business school at the University. I'm planning on talking to a few local architects, and hopefully some developers that seem to really care about how they're influencing the local community.
You should meet with the B.arch staff and see how long it will take you since you already have a B.S it may be only 3-4 years like an M.arch. They may allow you to double up on some coursework to get it done, they will understand that you are not 18 and have completed all the Gen Ed. I am guessing that there no in state M.arch available? In the work place it does not matter at all which you have as long as you can do the work my office is a mix of it all, IVY , State, B.arch - M.arch and we all do the same thing it comes down to the portfolio you make and the work your become interested in and you go after firms that are similar to your interest .
@Beepbeep, you're correct, there are no M.Arch programs in my state (public or private). The chair of the arch department said that they'd be happy to have me, but she thought I should go for a Master's. They do allow students who didn't declare Arch. as incoming freshman a chance to cram the first year into one summer (apparently it's rough, but doable), so I'm going to see if that might be an option for me, since technically I'm applying to the university as a transfer student. Other than that, there's no doubling up--you have to take all the studios in sequence. I would be taking a lighter course load than the other students, as gen. ed. requirements are waived for students who already have degrees (except I'd probably have to take calculus, since I didn't the first time around). I appreciate your note about the workplace--I had suspected as much, but not had that confirmed.
At this point, I'm leaning toward the B.Arch, which will allow me to get through without debt, and save funds for a MRED after a couple years of professional experience (or another specialized Masters, depending on where my interests take me).
Why do you want to a 5 year Bachelor of Architecture after doing a 4 year undergraduate degree? Why put yourself through the torture?
-Weigh the cost of 5 years of part time work and staying put and being stuck in school, versus three years of full time classes/part time work and getting out and getting full time work early.
It will take you a number of years to get licensed once you get out and your salary will be $40,000-$52,000 roughly at that time. I would want to start that process as soon as possible. When I see that you want to go back and do a MRED after the Masters or the B. Arch, that just scares me! Why would you do that to yourself when you are already 27? Do you know how long that is going to take and how long you will be foregoing what you actually want to do and a full time salary? You will be 27+5 years +2 years = 35 when you are done with both? Or, 27+3 +2(MRED) = 32
Do you want to get into development? If so, you don't need both a degree in architecture and an MRED. You would be better off doing an MBA with a focus in real estate development or a MRED just by itself, then go work for a real estate developer. When you work for a developer, you do have an opportunity to influence the design. You could be done in 2 years and a Development Coordinator or Project Coordinator for a Developer with an MRED would probably make $70,000 right out the gate. Your salary will only go up from there. There are lots of people with business degrees who work in real estate development and don't even have an architecture degree/engineering degree or Masters in Real Estate Development.
With respect to architecture, there are lots of jobs out there that specifically look for a Master's degree. They won't care that you have two undergraduate degrees and your B. Arch is essentially like doing a bachelor's plus master's in one.
Don't set yourself back man. All that schooling is not worth it. M. Arch, MRED, MBA w/ Real Estate Specialization or M. ARCH/MRED. Don't do the B.Arch!
I hope something I said above helps you. Good luck!