I'm a recent architecture bachelors graduate looking to apply to grad school. As for now my choices are :
Attending 3 year MArch program - Prices below are per semester :
Columbia @26K > Pratt @22K > Parsons @22K > Bernard and Anne Spitzer @6k
Obviously Columbia its and would be my dream choice. I'm fascinated with their program and would love to be part of this great school. My main obstacle of course its the money and its acceptance tolerance. My parents have offered me full support if I decide to take this journey. So is it possible money wise ? Yes.
Now the question is, how hard is to to accepted ? It's the 156K worth it in the long run? Does the name of the school really matter when applying for a job ?
Columbia Requirements:
Submitted online application Transcript(s) Letters of recommendation Statement of Purpose Portfolio GRE - A minimum score of 144 (Quantitative) and 153 (Verbal) or above is suggested. GSAPP requires a minimum verbal score of 150 (equivalent to 450 on the old test).
I feel confident I could complete each and one of these requirements not to mention "The GSAPP does not have a minimum Grade Point Average (GPA) " I have a very decent portfolio to present and great letters of recommendation from past professors.
Now, Pratt and Parsons are my back up choices. I've heard great things about Pratt, being an art school it offers you a much bigger imagination door to create and design as an architect. Not to mention it also has a campus, beautiful by the way. Parsons on the other hand may not be very well know but I've read various firms claim that the Parson students make some of the best portfolios around. It terms of the cost, both are just a bit cheaper and require just about or a bit less than Columbia. Bernard & Anne Spitzer its obviously the cheaper choice and what many students might take. People say don't let its affordable price fool you because behind that price hides a very solid, well put together architecture program.
To conclude, I'm very undecided on which path to take. My main choices in order are :
Columbia > Pratt > Parsons > Bernard & Anne
Money wise, I'm willing to take the responsibility but my fear its would it worth it ?
Note: I've thought about attending Bernard & Anne Spitzer for two semesters. In my time being there I would enrich my portfolio and boost my GPA as high as possible to then transfer to one of these three top schools, is that's possible. What do you think ?
I would to hear from students or professionals that went to one of these schools. Any feedback its welcome and would help me a lot. Thank you for your kind help guys.
natematt
Oct 15, 15 10:00 pm
22k is really expensive. I'd try branching out to more schools. 6k is a very reasonable price in my mind, but I've never even heard of that school (which has no impact on if it is worth going to)
With that said...
Now the question is, how hard is to to accepted ? not THAT hard. The most select architecture schools are still like 10%, most are at least 20-50.
It's the 156K worth it in the long run? No. If you have to take on that much debt to go there then make other plans.
Does the name of the school really matter when applying for a job ? The relationship between work and school is very soft. What matters is how good the portfolio you produce is, and what kind of personality dysfunctions you do or don't pick up. The better applicant will get hired, no one will care witch school you went to... but often better schools produce better applicants.
Non Sequitur
Oct 15, 15 11:29 pm
20-something per semester?
What a joke.
bowling_ball
Oct 16, 15 12:16 am
I agree with Non Sequitur. Laughable if it wasn't so frightening. Who the hell can afford to go to programs like these?
For some perspective, I graduated 4 years ago from a mid-tier Canadian Masters program. I paid about $2000 per semester, plus a few fees. Let's say $2500 per semester.
So even if I got 80% of the education of a Columbia, I paid 10% of the tuition. And our dean was the former dean of Columbia, coincidentally.
After your first job, you'll never be asked what school you went to.
no_form
Oct 16, 15 1:05 am
The answer to your question is simple. The one you can afford that has the faculty you are interested in being mentored by.
You bring as much to the program as the faculty does. It's up to you to make the best of your education.
Volunteer
Oct 16, 15 7:48 am
A lot of schools are starting to list their tuition on a per semester basis. It is somewhat like the car dealers hawking the monthly payment and not the vehicle cost. What is driving the graduate school tuition explosion is the fact that the guaranteed government loans are not capped for graduate schools. You can borrow as much as the schools want to charge.
awaiting_deletion
Oct 16, 15 7:55 am
its really just networking in the end.......your buddy at Columbia might be the son of some billionaire and maybe your break out client someday but your buddy at CUNY might become mayor of NYC and your breakout client.......frankly you expand your future clientele base better by attending and Ivy school - but these smart kids as clients can be tough clients......the 70% education is on point. you may be challenged less by your peers perhaps but in the wnd Architecure success is completelt up to you.
David Cole, AIA
Oct 16, 15 8:56 am
Don't most of the NYC architecture schools pretty much share the same rotating pool of adjunct faculty? If it were my money I'd go to CCNY / Spitzer, but if you're lucky enough to have parents willing to pay for tuition at GSAPP, then why not? Probably best to wait until you actually get accepted someplace before committing yourself, though.
If you're looking for best value for dollar and are willing to go outside NYC, I'd suggest Cincinnati. It consistently holds its own against the Ivy League schools, you can get in-state tuition after your first year, and the co-op program would even let you come back to NYC every other semester for full-time employment at top-shelf firms. Pretty sure about half my class is now working in NYC, and the experience and networking gained via the co-op program is far more useful than having an Ivy League name on your resume, IMO.
bowling_ball
Oct 16, 15 9:39 am
Agreed about the co-op. If it's available to you, do it. It'll alsohelp you figure out if arch is for you, before you spend $150k.
Dugan Nash
Oct 17, 15 9:55 pm
UT Austin. Berkeley. UVA. Michigan.
The top publics, by far, provide the best value.
flatroof
Oct 18, 15 3:12 pm
The best school that offers you the most money.
Wilma Buttfit
Oct 19, 15 8:29 am
Not to offend, just a thought I had that I'm going to leave here... you should be able to train one-on-one with an experienced practicing architect, finish with a license, and be set to launch your own practice for that kind of money. Wish that option was there. How many of you architects would teach a young person everything they know for 22,000 bones a semester x 5 years?
Volunteer
Oct 19, 15 9:29 am
tint,
Your proposal would completely gut the architectural school accreditation cartel, NAAB, and the schools themselves. I like it.
awaiting_deletion
Oct 19, 15 8:21 pm
tinnt i am with you. architecture is learned in practice. skip the whole school thing and go straight to apprenticeship.
alrightalright
Oct 19, 15 8:30 pm
"architecture is learned in practice. skip the whole school thing and go straight to apprenticeship."
insert any profession for an excuse to eliminate education.. not to mention the self-contradiction: calling architecture a "learned" practice, immediately followed with "skip the whole school thing."
school is a place where the young mind is free from the burdens of budgets, developers, city councils, trash routes, take your pick. it is in that special environment that one can begin to tackle to complex problems of organizing space (the anticipation of human occupation.)
not that any of those are not important, but their voice screams so loudly that it would be impossible to "learn the basics" if they are your first exposure to the field.
awaiting_deletion
Oct 19, 15 8:36 pm
if you think so. the point is to organize space with all those factors in mind........everyone knows a massive portion of your education in academia is useless.....if you spend that much money you should get something in return...now for thinking differently academia is great, i like academia and it has its place, but usually not in practice.
itsjdaniel
Oct 19, 15 11:46 pm
First of all thank you so much for taking the time to answer my questions.
I'm a recent graduate from CUNY New York City College of Technology with a Bachelor of Technology in Architecture. I haven't done any internships at all which I regret tremendously, but I do have a decent well put portfolio. My parents had been very kind to support me in any choice I make, in terms of which university I decide to go. They would take the loans under their name to later transferred to me (when I'm working) to care of it. They are old school, they think only universities with great names are the only ones that would guarantee good jobs. We come from Peru, a country in which education and job wise opportunities all belong to those who had money and connections.
Don't get me wrong, I would love to go to Columbia but I also know that at the end of the day its me who its going to end up paying the loans. 200K its very scary especially knowing architects don't really make that much income.
I have looked into Cincinnati School of Architecture and Interior Design and I absolutely love it. According to several sites, they're #6 in the nation. Their co-op program is amazing , not to mention the tuition is very affordable around 9K for state and 16K out of state.
"Within the curriculum, students cross back and forth between the academic and commercial worlds of architecture, strengthening their understanding of the integration of theory and practice, discipline and profession. At the graduate level, the co-op experience includes specific learning experiences that operate between these two traditional sites of instruction, linking our 700-firm employer network into academic course work and research objectives through a guided, 26-week graduate co-op experience related to each student's thesis topic."
By doing some research and re-think my plans I have decided I'm not fully ready to enter a master program. There are too many questions to be answered. What i want to do and focus all my time is to find myself an internship even if i don't get paid but at least I would gain tons of experience. Build it up my portfolio, work with real architects, see how things work in the real world and then I would be ready, confident and secure to apply to the right university.
Once again thanks for the feedback.
s=r*(theta)
Oct 20, 15 5:58 pm
Hands down, The A.R.E.
- It will open more doors than any degree
- it will take about the same or less time to complete
- it expose you to serious exponential concepts you will use the rest of your life & career
- its cheaper than a degree and extremely more consequential
- its puts significant distance between you and 70% of the other canidates
- It is really the terminal goal for our industry.
- It is a asset, where the degree is a liability.
- it shifts your mental state from academia & employee to actual practice & ownership
- Family, friends and those chicks on eharmony oh & aww over a debt riddled masters degree; Clients, Contractors and Principals write checks for the License.
Hey but what do i know,lights, flashing, lights, flashing, lights
Hello,
I'm a recent architecture bachelors graduate looking to apply to grad school. As for now my choices are :
Attending 3 year MArch program - Prices below are per semester :
Columbia @26K > Pratt @22K > Parsons @22K > Bernard and Anne Spitzer @6k
Obviously Columbia its and would be my dream choice. I'm fascinated with their program and would love to be part of this great school. My main obstacle of course its the money and its acceptance tolerance. My parents have offered me full support if I decide to take this journey. So is it possible money wise ? Yes.
Now the question is, how hard is to to accepted ? It's the 156K worth it in the long run? Does the name of the school really matter when applying for a job ?
Columbia Requirements:
Submitted online application Transcript(s) Letters of recommendation Statement of Purpose Portfolio GRE - A minimum score of 144 (Quantitative) and 153 (Verbal) or above is suggested. GSAPP requires a minimum verbal score of 150 (equivalent to 450 on the old test).
I feel confident I could complete each and one of these requirements not to mention "The GSAPP does not have a minimum Grade Point Average (GPA) " I have a very decent portfolio to present and great letters of recommendation from past professors.
Now, Pratt and Parsons are my back up choices. I've heard great things about Pratt, being an art school it offers you a much bigger imagination door to create and design as an architect. Not to mention it also has a campus, beautiful by the way. Parsons on the other hand may not be very well know but I've read various firms claim that the Parson students make some of the best portfolios around. It terms of the cost, both are just a bit cheaper and require just about or a bit less than Columbia. Bernard & Anne Spitzer its obviously the cheaper choice and what many students might take. People say don't let its affordable price fool you because behind that price hides a very solid, well put together architecture program.
To conclude, I'm very undecided on which path to take. My main choices in order are :
Columbia > Pratt > Parsons > Bernard & Anne
Money wise, I'm willing to take the responsibility but my fear its would it worth it ?
Note : I've thought about attending Bernard & Anne Spitzer for two semesters. In my time being there I would enrich my portfolio and boost my GPA as high as possible to then transfer to one of these three top schools, is that's possible. What do you think ?
I would to hear from students or professionals that went to one of these schools. Any feedback its welcome and would help me a lot. Thank you for your kind help guys.
22k is really expensive. I'd try branching out to more schools. 6k is a very reasonable price in my mind, but I've never even heard of that school (which has no impact on if it is worth going to)
With that said...
Now the question is, how hard is to to accepted ?
not THAT hard. The most select architecture schools are still like 10%, most are at least 20-50.
It's the 156K worth it in the long run?
No. If you have to take on that much debt to go there then make other plans.
Does the name of the school really matter when applying for a job ?
The relationship between work and school is very soft. What matters is how good the portfolio you produce is, and what kind of personality dysfunctions you do or don't pick up. The better applicant will get hired, no one will care witch school you went to... but often better schools produce better applicants.
20-something per semester?
What a joke.
I agree with Non Sequitur. Laughable if it wasn't so frightening. Who the hell can afford to go to programs like these?
For some perspective, I graduated 4 years ago from a mid-tier Canadian Masters program. I paid about $2000 per semester, plus a few fees. Let's say $2500 per semester.
So even if I got 80% of the education of a Columbia, I paid 10% of the tuition. And our dean was the former dean of Columbia, coincidentally.
After your first job, you'll never be asked what school you went to.
The answer to your question is simple. The one you can afford that has the faculty you are interested in being mentored by.
You bring as much to the program as the faculty does. It's up to you to make the best of your education.
A lot of schools are starting to list their tuition on a per semester basis. It is somewhat like the car dealers hawking the monthly payment and not the vehicle cost. What is driving the graduate school tuition explosion is the fact that the guaranteed government loans are not capped for graduate schools. You can borrow as much as the schools want to charge.
its really just networking in the end.......your buddy at Columbia might be the son of some billionaire and maybe your break out client someday but your buddy at CUNY might become mayor of NYC and your breakout client.......frankly you expand your future clientele base better by attending and Ivy school - but these smart kids as clients can be tough clients......the 70% education is on point. you may be challenged less by your peers perhaps but in the wnd Architecure success is completelt up to you.
Don't most of the NYC architecture schools pretty much share the same rotating pool of adjunct faculty? If it were my money I'd go to CCNY / Spitzer, but if you're lucky enough to have parents willing to pay for tuition at GSAPP, then why not? Probably best to wait until you actually get accepted someplace before committing yourself, though.
If you're looking for best value for dollar and are willing to go outside NYC, I'd suggest Cincinnati. It consistently holds its own against the Ivy League schools, you can get in-state tuition after your first year, and the co-op program would even let you come back to NYC every other semester for full-time employment at top-shelf firms. Pretty sure about half my class is now working in NYC, and the experience and networking gained via the co-op program is far more useful than having an Ivy League name on your resume, IMO.
Agreed about the co-op. If it's available to you, do it. It'll alsohelp you figure out if arch is for you, before you spend $150k.
UT Austin. Berkeley. UVA. Michigan.
The top publics, by far, provide the best value.
The best school that offers you the most money.
Not to offend, just a thought I had that I'm going to leave here... you should be able to train one-on-one with an experienced practicing architect, finish with a license, and be set to launch your own practice for that kind of money. Wish that option was there. How many of you architects would teach a young person everything they know for 22,000 bones a semester x 5 years?
tint,
Your proposal would completely gut the architectural school accreditation cartel, NAAB, and the schools themselves. I like it.
tinnt i am with you. architecture is learned in practice. skip the whole school thing and go straight to apprenticeship.
"architecture is learned in practice. skip the whole school thing and go straight to apprenticeship."
insert any profession for an excuse to eliminate education.. not to mention the self-contradiction: calling architecture a "learned" practice, immediately followed with "skip the whole school thing."
school is a place where the young mind is free from the burdens of budgets, developers, city councils, trash routes, take your pick. it is in that special environment that one can begin to tackle to complex problems of organizing space (the anticipation of human occupation.)
not that any of those are not important, but their voice screams so loudly that it would be impossible to "learn the basics" if they are your first exposure to the field.
if you think so. the point is to organize space with all those factors in mind........everyone knows a massive portion of your education in academia is useless.....if you spend that much money you should get something in return...now for thinking differently academia is great, i like academia and it has its place, but usually not in practice.
First of all thank you so much for taking the time to answer my questions.
I'm a recent graduate from CUNY New York City College of Technology with a Bachelor of Technology in Architecture.
I haven't done any internships at all which I regret tremendously, but I do have a decent well put portfolio. My parents had been very kind to support me in any choice I make, in terms of which university I decide to go. They would take the loans under their name to later transferred to me (when I'm working) to care of it. They are old school, they think only universities with great names are the only ones that would guarantee good jobs. We come from Peru, a country in which education and job wise opportunities all belong to those who had money and connections.
Don't get me wrong, I would love to go to Columbia but I also know that at the end of the day its me who its going to end up paying the loans. 200K its very scary especially knowing architects don't really make that much income.
I have looked into Cincinnati School of Architecture and Interior Design and I absolutely love it. According to several sites, they're #6 in the nation. Their co-op program is amazing , not to mention the tuition is very affordable around 9K for state and 16K out of state.
"Within the curriculum, students cross back and forth between the academic and commercial worlds of architecture, strengthening their understanding of the integration of theory and practice, discipline and profession. At the graduate level, the co-op experience includes specific learning experiences that operate between these two traditional sites of instruction, linking our 700-firm employer network into academic course work and research objectives through a guided, 26-week graduate co-op experience related to each student's thesis topic."
By doing some research and re-think my plans I have decided I'm not fully ready to enter a master program. There are too many questions to be answered. What i want to do and focus all my time is to find myself an internship even if i don't get paid but at least I would gain tons of experience. Build it up my portfolio, work with real architects, see how things work in the real world and then I would be ready, confident and secure to apply to the right university.
Once again thanks for the feedback.
Hands down, The A.R.E.
- It will open more doors than any degree
- it will take about the same or less time to complete
- it expose you to serious exponential concepts you will use the rest of your life & career
- its cheaper than a degree and extremely more consequential
- its puts significant distance between you and 70% of the other canidates
- It is really the terminal goal for our industry.
- It is a asset, where the degree is a liability.
- it shifts your mental state from academia & employee to actual practice & ownership
- Family, friends and those chicks on eharmony oh & aww over a debt riddled masters degree; Clients, Contractors and Principals write checks for the License.
Hey but what do i know,lights, flashing, lights, flashing, lights