I am working on a residential landscape design...the clients have 3 young children and want informal "play" fearures integrated into the overall landscape. They do not want "play equiptment," but rather earth works, stepping stones, a forest of trees, possible hide outs created with shrubs and natural materials....For residential play areas there are no codes that require shock absorbing surfaces around play equiptment, however I made it clear that I would not specify any "play equiptment" without creating a fall zone because it is not safe imo. The client does not want "play equiptment" and just wants more informal features that are aesthetically indistinguishable from the rest of the landscape but that his kids can/may use for play...My question is whether such an informal feature would require the same treatment as a formal play area? Does intent overide the fact that the features are not technically play equiptment? Since there are no codes that apply to residential, I wanted to know how such blurry lines are handled in public places...a group of boulders within a certain proximity to a playground could be seen as an extension of a playground for instance...
x-jla
Oct 12, 15 2:39 pm
Also, the maximum height of any of these features will be 24"...nothing really climbable other than trees...
chigurh
Oct 12, 15 4:04 pm
kids can kill themselves on anything.
if your clients are type A litigious assholes, do not design the features they are asking for. If they are chill, just give them what they want.... over thinking it.
quizzical
Oct 12, 15 4:26 pm
Step 1: have a conversation with your E&O Insurance carrier
Step 2: have a conversation with your lawyer
Step 3: follow their advice
My guess -- and it's only a guess -- is that they will advise you to obtain a "waiver of liability and indemnification" letter from your client before proceeding as you have been requested.
anonitect
Oct 12, 15 4:58 pm
equipment.
JeromeS
Oct 12, 15 5:47 pm
earth works, stepping stones, a forest of trees, possible hide outs created with shrubs and natural materials.
Where is the danger in the list you provided?
Do shock absorbing materials and fall zones protect designers from liability?
3tk
Oct 12, 15 6:00 pm
+1 quizzical
-> If you're nervous, get a 'waiver of liability and hold harmless agreement.'
Peter Graves
Oct 12, 15 6:32 pm
All of the features you describe simply could be a normal part of any landscape design. Do not at any point call out these features as play equipment, play areas, or otherwise program them as meant for a specific use. They are aesthetic or natural landscape features. That happen to be awesome to play on as a kid. Just design it as if it's a cool feature but not specifically for playing on and around.
citizen
Oct 12, 15 6:44 pm
^ I agree w/ Peter... whom I loved in Mission Impossible and Airplane.
Larchinect
Oct 12, 15 6:45 pm
I thought landscaping designers dont have any liability--whats the worse that could happen? a shrub dies?...kidding..
Just follow code--no 'walls' over 30" height without a rail, no slopes over 3:1, no more than 4 steps without a rail or landing, etc, etc. We practice in an area with very stringent codes that even dictate grading, limits of disturbance, features above or below grade. Dont labels the features you design as play features on your final cd's. You are designing a landscape, nota playground.
You are asking all the right questions, dont sweat it so much. Design something cool and help promote the profession!
Peter Graves
Oct 12, 15 6:47 pm
@ citizen thanks, you ever been in a cockpit before?
@jla-x all that said, it's best to get the opinion of legal counsel if you have one. Not worth getting your pants sued off, ever.
citizen
Oct 12, 15 6:53 pm
@ Peter: No, but I do like gladiator movies...
geezertect
Oct 12, 15 8:32 pm
@ Peter: You really did your best work on "Fury" on Saturday mornings.
geezertect
Oct 12, 15 8:33 pm
^ And your brother James Arness was the best on Gunsmoke.
Carrera
Oct 12, 15 8:40 pm
Tend to agree with chigurh. I wouldn’t label it “playground” or anything else for that matter and refrain from discussing it on emails etc…and 2 years from now when Little Johnny breaks his arm he’ll have done it in what you labeled as “backyard”.
I am working on a residential landscape design...the clients have 3 young children and want informal "play" fearures integrated into the overall landscape. They do not want "play equiptment," but rather earth works, stepping stones, a forest of trees, possible hide outs created with shrubs and natural materials....For residential play areas there are no codes that require shock absorbing surfaces around play equiptment, however I made it clear that I would not specify any "play equiptment" without creating a fall zone because it is not safe imo. The client does not want "play equiptment" and just wants more informal features that are aesthetically indistinguishable from the rest of the landscape but that his kids can/may use for play...My question is whether such an informal feature would require the same treatment as a formal play area? Does intent overide the fact that the features are not technically play equiptment? Since there are no codes that apply to residential, I wanted to know how such blurry lines are handled in public places...a group of boulders within a certain proximity to a playground could be seen as an extension of a playground for instance...
Also, the maximum height of any of these features will be 24"...nothing really climbable other than trees...
kids can kill themselves on anything.
if your clients are type A litigious assholes, do not design the features they are asking for. If they are chill, just give them what they want.... over thinking it.
Step 1: have a conversation with your E&O Insurance carrier
Step 2: have a conversation with your lawyer
Step 3: follow their advice
My guess -- and it's only a guess -- is that they will advise you to obtain a "waiver of liability and indemnification" letter from your client before proceeding as you have been requested.
equipment.
earth works, stepping stones, a forest of trees, possible hide outs created with shrubs and natural materials.
Where is the danger in the list you provided?
Do shock absorbing materials and fall zones protect designers from liability?
+1 quizzical
-> If you're nervous, get a 'waiver of liability and hold harmless agreement.'
All of the features you describe simply could be a normal part of any landscape design. Do not at any point call out these features as play equipment, play areas, or otherwise program them as meant for a specific use. They are aesthetic or natural landscape features. That happen to be awesome to play on as a kid. Just design it as if it's a cool feature but not specifically for playing on and around.
^ I agree w/ Peter... whom I loved in Mission Impossible and Airplane.
I thought landscaping designers dont have any liability--whats the worse that could happen? a shrub dies?...kidding..
Just follow code--no 'walls' over 30" height without a rail, no slopes over 3:1, no more than 4 steps without a rail or landing, etc, etc. We practice in an area with very stringent codes that even dictate grading, limits of disturbance, features above or below grade. Dont labels the features you design as play features on your final cd's. You are designing a landscape, nota playground.
You are asking all the right questions, dont sweat it so much. Design something cool and help promote the profession!
@ citizen thanks, you ever been in a cockpit before?
@jla-x all that said, it's best to get the opinion of legal counsel if you have one. Not worth getting your pants sued off, ever.
@ Peter: No, but I do like gladiator movies...
@ Peter: You really did your best work on "Fury" on Saturday mornings.
^ And your brother James Arness was the best on Gunsmoke.
Tend to agree with chigurh. I wouldn’t label it “playground” or anything else for that matter and refrain from discussing it on emails etc…and 2 years from now when Little Johnny breaks his arm he’ll have done it in what you labeled as “backyard”.
thanks all...good comments!