Basically getting sick of putting the word 'concept' or 'conceptual' on almost everything we do. We're in about our third year of business with less built work than we would like. We have a pretty extensive portfolio of nice drawings however, but kind of makes you wonder what value we're adding as designers when things don't get built. For sole practitioners, how long did it take you to find your way into built work?
I don't think it's any fault of ours for not having much of a built portfolio, more just the nature of the work we are doing ?
citizen
Sep 11, 15 7:55 pm
Great topic, and I have no answer, only questions:
Are you doing schematics only? Or CDs too? If you're doing construction doc's, what happens to the construction phase? Are clients running out of money? Changing their minds? Dragging their feet?
In other words, it's clients who are behind the decision to start construction or not. What's going on with them in these projects?
Carrera
Sep 11, 15 7:56 pm
If I remember you are a landscape architect (?). If that’s correct you are a bit powerless, the architects that design the buildings have to MAKE them fly. Most don’t know how, they think their value stops with drawings. I have a friend that has these words under his logo – “Lead, Build, Succeed”. Nothing he does sits in a drawer.
midlander
Sep 11, 15 8:08 pm
i haven't got any answer for you, only the observation that in 10 years of working full-time in medium and large firms (no periods unemployed) I have seen only 2 projects I worked on get built. Neither of them ones I worked on start-to-finish. My 3rd (and most substantial involvement) is due soon... but the same client has stopped payment on a different project so I'm worried they're in a cash squeeze.
among my friends who run their own firms, it seems to have taken about 5 years to see real full-service architecture projects built, after which the opportunities start to grow. it's a real gamble though - not all of them are really making it work.
x-jla
Sep 11, 15 8:30 pm
Are the projects coming back over budget?
x-jla
Sep 11, 15 8:55 pm
where are you getting clients? are you doing LA work that is tied to larger arch projects? If you were to work with a contractor/s, and essentially be the design arm of the design build team, you would see more built work as those clients are contracting for the entire package. Also, if you concentrate on remodels rather than new builds you will probably see a greater rate of completed works. New builds are very unstable...I cant really speak about commercial projects as I have limited experiance, but just from my experiance in residential it seems that the source of leads plays a big role...
Larchinect
Sep 11, 15 9:10 pm
No answers necessary, just interested to hear what others experience has been. I am a landscape arch, self employed. Granted, it is ultimately the clients decision to build, but that doesn't make it much less frustrating to keep stacking up pretty pictures. In our case, I do think it is mainly the nature of the work--lots of 'studies' for planning depts, master plans, visioning, etc. only lately have we had more residential work, which will likely get built, but admittedly nothing exciting. We also still do a lot of work as subs for other las and we get hired many times for our graphics expertise. I'm probably answering my own questions, but like I said just interested to hear how others experience has been.
Carrera
Sep 11, 15 10:50 pm
I visit many LA websites and see mostly drawings, could be that it’s hard to photograph, or it takes too long for things to mature, hardscapes are different. I realize the frustration, but if you’re getting paid to design & draw and if you’re eating regularly why worry.
It’s hard for us to answer an LA problem, but if your clients are architects and other LA’s there isn’t much you can do about it. I for one never had the problem, but as jla-xsuggested cultivating direct relationships with contractors will help because they don’t get paid until it’s built. As I said, so many architects don’t really care if it gets built, so little fee involved in that phase.
The method of psychiatry is to get someone to talk long enough to answer their own questions…based on my experience you owe us $150 X 4 = $600.
Keep drawing & eating.
Carrera
Sep 11, 15 11:17 pm
Sorry, forgot to add a bunch of these :):):) to my psychiatry comment:)
Larchinect
Sep 11, 15 11:59 pm
Good advice.
Miles Jaffe
Sep 12, 15 10:34 am
The two projects I designed that didn't get built were by far the most profitable.
3tk
Sep 12, 15 11:27 pm
A lot of residential LA firms have great photographs (more easily built for 'instant effect', mostly planting) - can be difficult to get back on a property, especially if it's confidential; institutional takes longer, but is more accessible for photography (though a lot of research centers are confidential). I'll also say it's very difficult to find a reasonably priced photographer who can effectively photograph landscapes and produce professional level images.
Design to build in my experience is 2~5yrs for residential to 5~10yrs for institutional work (another 2~3 or 3~5 yrs for the plants to grow in, IF they do proper maintenance).
If it's not built, less chance of being sued...
Carrera
Sep 13, 15 12:16 pm
"If it's not built, less chance of being sued..." - Bingo!
Larchinect
Sep 13, 15 4:41 pm
3tk--
Ive heard around 3 years minimum on your own before getting substantial built work in your portfolio, another couple of seasons for plant material to fill in and you're easily at 5 years. Makes sense. We're right around three years now. We have built a few things, but mostly very small projects and signage/monuments (which were actually pretty challenging to detail and build), but not enough to say we have a 'portfolio of built work' which can be tough for some clients to stomach.
I like to think there are a handful of architects out there waiting for us to build a few things before they give us a shot..maybe it doesnt really matter and they dont give a shit..or maybe they do but they dont know it. Municipal clients seem to mainly care about the graphics, simulations, and the fact that we are a known quantity for them. They know us and how we work, and can rely on us. Developers are aware of us and our ideas (we're pretty engaged I would say in our community), but probably also a bit reluctant to use us more until we build a track record of built work.
Anyway, none of this really matters, just interesting to think about.
whistler
Sep 16, 15 1:10 am
I like to build stuff and see stuff built so I only go after "real" projects. I come from a building background but am registered in both Landscape Architecture and Architecture. Make friends with builders they need real work and like to work year after year like us. I usually get at least 2-3 projects a year from builders who I have done work with in past. You learn a lot from good builders.
3tk
Sep 16, 15 2:55 pm
yeah, a lot of academic and larger commercial/institutional clients like to see built work that has lasted so that they see the product holds up (usually another 5+ yrs). I've seen a lot of poorly detailed walls and pavements that begin to fail after 3~5 yrs, so I suppose it's justified.
Once you build, the same clients keep knocking on the door (one of the reasons some older firms get too comfortable and start shrinking as their clients retire or pass away - marketing insists on 25% new clients to fill the void). I've noticed that indeed one great built project leads to quite a few in quick succession so it is a matter of time - then you'll be wanting to streamline the construction administration process to maximize your design time.
Basically getting sick of putting the word 'concept' or 'conceptual' on almost everything we do. We're in about our third year of business with less built work than we would like. We have a pretty extensive portfolio of nice drawings however, but kind of makes you wonder what value we're adding as designers when things don't get built. For sole practitioners, how long did it take you to find your way into built work?
I don't think it's any fault of ours for not having much of a built portfolio, more just the nature of the work we are doing ?
Great topic, and I have no answer, only questions:
Are you doing schematics only? Or CDs too? If you're doing construction doc's, what happens to the construction phase? Are clients running out of money? Changing their minds? Dragging their feet?
In other words, it's clients who are behind the decision to start construction or not. What's going on with them in these projects?
If I remember you are a landscape architect (?). If that’s correct you are a bit powerless, the architects that design the buildings have to MAKE them fly. Most don’t know how, they think their value stops with drawings. I have a friend that has these words under his logo – “Lead, Build, Succeed”. Nothing he does sits in a drawer.
i haven't got any answer for you, only the observation that in 10 years of working full-time in medium and large firms (no periods unemployed) I have seen only 2 projects I worked on get built. Neither of them ones I worked on start-to-finish. My 3rd (and most substantial involvement) is due soon... but the same client has stopped payment on a different project so I'm worried they're in a cash squeeze.
among my friends who run their own firms, it seems to have taken about 5 years to see real full-service architecture projects built, after which the opportunities start to grow. it's a real gamble though - not all of them are really making it work.
Are the projects coming back over budget?
where are you getting clients? are you doing LA work that is tied to larger arch projects? If you were to work with a contractor/s, and essentially be the design arm of the design build team, you would see more built work as those clients are contracting for the entire package. Also, if you concentrate on remodels rather than new builds you will probably see a greater rate of completed works. New builds are very unstable...I cant really speak about commercial projects as I have limited experiance, but just from my experiance in residential it seems that the source of leads plays a big role...
No answers necessary, just interested to hear what others experience has been. I am a landscape arch, self employed. Granted, it is ultimately the clients decision to build, but that doesn't make it much less frustrating to keep stacking up pretty pictures. In our case, I do think it is mainly the nature of the work--lots of 'studies' for planning depts, master plans, visioning, etc. only lately have we had more residential work, which will likely get built, but admittedly nothing exciting. We also still do a lot of work as subs for other las and we get hired many times for our graphics expertise. I'm probably answering my own questions, but like I said just interested to hear how others experience has been.
I visit many LA websites and see mostly drawings, could be that it’s hard to photograph, or it takes too long for things to mature, hardscapes are different. I realize the frustration, but if you’re getting paid to design & draw and if you’re eating regularly why worry.
It’s hard for us to answer an LA problem, but if your clients are architects and other LA’s there isn’t much you can do about it. I for one never had the problem, but as jla-x suggested cultivating direct relationships with contractors will help because they don’t get paid until it’s built. As I said, so many architects don’t really care if it gets built, so little fee involved in that phase.
The method of psychiatry is to get someone to talk long enough to answer their own questions…based on my experience you owe us $150 X 4 = $600.
Keep drawing & eating.
Sorry, forgot to add a bunch of these :):):) to my psychiatry comment:)
Good advice.
The two projects I designed that didn't get built were by far the most profitable.
A lot of residential LA firms have great photographs (more easily built for 'instant effect', mostly planting) - can be difficult to get back on a property, especially if it's confidential; institutional takes longer, but is more accessible for photography (though a lot of research centers are confidential). I'll also say it's very difficult to find a reasonably priced photographer who can effectively photograph landscapes and produce professional level images.
Design to build in my experience is 2~5yrs for residential to 5~10yrs for institutional work (another 2~3 or 3~5 yrs for the plants to grow in, IF they do proper maintenance).
If it's not built, less chance of being sued...
"If it's not built, less chance of being sued..." - Bingo!
3tk--
Ive heard around 3 years minimum on your own before getting substantial built work in your portfolio, another couple of seasons for plant material to fill in and you're easily at 5 years. Makes sense. We're right around three years now. We have built a few things, but mostly very small projects and signage/monuments (which were actually pretty challenging to detail and build), but not enough to say we have a 'portfolio of built work' which can be tough for some clients to stomach.
I like to think there are a handful of architects out there waiting for us to build a few things before they give us a shot..maybe it doesnt really matter and they dont give a shit..or maybe they do but they dont know it. Municipal clients seem to mainly care about the graphics, simulations, and the fact that we are a known quantity for them. They know us and how we work, and can rely on us. Developers are aware of us and our ideas (we're pretty engaged I would say in our community), but probably also a bit reluctant to use us more until we build a track record of built work.
Anyway, none of this really matters, just interesting to think about.
I like to build stuff and see stuff built so I only go after "real" projects. I come from a building background but am registered in both Landscape Architecture and Architecture. Make friends with builders they need real work and like to work year after year like us. I usually get at least 2-3 projects a year from builders who I have done work with in past. You learn a lot from good builders.
yeah, a lot of academic and larger commercial/institutional clients like to see built work that has lasted so that they see the product holds up (usually another 5+ yrs). I've seen a lot of poorly detailed walls and pavements that begin to fail after 3~5 yrs, so I suppose it's justified.
Once you build, the same clients keep knocking on the door (one of the reasons some older firms get too comfortable and start shrinking as their clients retire or pass away - marketing insists on 25% new clients to fill the void). I've noticed that indeed one great built project leads to quite a few in quick succession so it is a matter of time - then you'll be wanting to streamline the construction administration process to maximize your design time.