hi guys my thesis proposal is about , Housing with vertical farm
my concept is to design a building for the lower class people (who have little to no skill).
The building serves 2 function but is 1 unit , i have also done some research on existing
buildings of this nature ( but seperate either the vertical farm or the housing but never
combined) , i just wanted to ask where should i focus my energy on, during this
research period and what challenge may i face? thank you
earlthepearl
Jun 23, 15 1:27 am
thank you admin for approving :D
kickrocks
Jun 23, 15 1:29 am
So you think lower class people will be needed when such a thing can easily be automated? If their skill set is low, a robot can do it.
earlthepearl
Jun 23, 15 1:40 am
no sir .kickrocks , my point is to help the poor with their condition i believe they need 3 basics factors to survive ,food -water- shelter , while also making the building itself sustainable. yes a robot can do it but considering my location here in philipphines , we are not there yet
kickrocks
Jun 23, 15 1:46 am
And how much do you think they can produce from the divided farm space? Do you think yields will be good enough to even support a single household for long? Who's going to pay for all this? Will the "farmers" be able to profit or does it go back into the system to pay off some debt obligation?
earlthepearl
Jun 23, 15 2:02 am
for the amount and space i havent thought about it (and havent researched about it) but for the farmers sir ,for the yields i want by portion since vegetation takes time to grow, and what i propose is that the user them selfs are the farmers or maintanence workers since they have little to no skill ( they can be thought )
excuse me for my poor english :)
earlthepearl
Jun 23, 15 2:04 am
we have a housing agency that provides for the home
kickrocks
Jun 23, 15 2:18 am
I get that but how much housing will be allocated? Since you want it in one unit I assume, there isn't going to be much livable space if you want high yields; or low yields if you want human habitation in there somewhere. Makes a nice patch to grow some food like herbs and flowers but won't sustain full meals. And then that's essentially a housing complex with greenery.
Assuming you have floors split for farming and housing, how high will it be? What's going to power this? There's a lot of issues with vertical farming (only) structures already considering the costs for what would be very cheap products that require a lot of maintenance.
It's not an idea I would oppose or be in favor of. There certainly won't be too many of these things built for altruistic reasons (talking hundreds of millions for nicer subsidized housing). But if you can address some of the issues with real-world practicality, like why go up when you can build horizontally closer or retrofit abandoned buildings that are more likely to output more produce without giving up way too much waste/inefficiency, then it's something forward.
earlthepearl
Jun 23, 15 2:25 am
thank you sir , i will look into these issues
earlthepearl
Jun 23, 15 2:34 am
well sir if i may ask what is the better approach to this? since i feel like my proposal is scattered all over the place. :D ,
kickrocks
Jun 23, 15 2:56 am
I wouldn't make this about lower class people first of all. For what these buildings require daily, it won't be a low-skill job and thus makes the whole way-to-keep-the-poor-occupied thought moot. With the way technology advances, there'd be fewer people working anyways unless you make some old relic impromptu system--then it might as well be built inside an existing building left to rot.
What is your primary focus, farming or housing? See the problems with both and try to address the flaws that look to overlap. That might be the key to integration, at least theoretically.
earlthepearl
Jun 23, 15 3:01 am
thank you sir
x-jla
Jun 23, 15 11:45 am
first you need to find out the amount of food required to sustain one human per year, then need to figure out the space that will require. I think you will find that it is far greater than you are expecting. like 1-4 acres per person if I remember correctly. You will need to use technology to increase yeilds...hydroponics, aquaponics, etc. Still will require alot of space per person. Probably will not be able to grow all requred dietary varieties...wheat, tree fruits, beans, etc will be nearly impossible to grow hydroponically...so likely will have to look at it as a way to offset agricultural footprint or a way to suppliment diet...Also, You should avoid words like "the lower class people."
Marc Miller
Jun 23, 15 2:59 pm
Where to begin-
1- Required yield per person. Theres no perfect number, but there are averages out there that will tell how many square feet are required per person. This is an exercise in itself given that you'll need to make diet decisions. It's not just meat or no meat, it how much space can you afford per person (getting protein from meat is more efficient than plant material when looking at sf).
2- Location- It the growing period is long enough the yields may be long enough to make your vertical farm unnecessary.
3-Infrastructure. Jla-x said it all.
4- Water and air quality. Being exposed to high levels of fertilizers in closed areas is not all that healthy. sure you could make compost and commode teas from crops, but you're adding meat into the mix (see number 1).
5- Research on how much a head of lettuce cost from a hydroponic garden versus one grown in soil. Then ask yourself if this the user group is the correct one.
There is a person who is Emeritus at Columbia Univeristy who champions this as the future of urban living. Sadly I cannot recall his name.
Lastly, Earl "the Pearl" (Monroe). Is it irony that his childhood neighborhood is lower class you hope to serve?
3tk
Jun 23, 15 5:56 pm
Area/volume needed per person varies a bit by type of agriculture; as Miles pointed out not everything can be grown in compact environments (I want to say there's some institute in the Rocky Mountains that looked into a self sufficient home? the Philippines ought to have a more favorable overall climate, but hurricanes might be scary).
The Dutch greenhouse technologies is one of the best out there (they export a large chunk of the produce in europe) and the Japanese and Chinese have been 'leasing' the technology (less chemicals, but much tighter technological oversight; that is to say you need a very rigorous training program) . Problem with most food production is the cost when done in small scales - and flat areas are more cost effective.
earlthepearl
Jun 24, 15 1:03 am
thank you for guiding sirs
@jlax - sorry for the term now that i think about it is abit disrespectfull
@marc miller - i couldnt come up with any user name , and my idol in basketball is jermaine oneal :D
@thank you sir hopefully i can comeback here with pratical approach
x-jla
Jun 24, 15 2:29 am
your welcome sir.
Marc Miller
Jun 24, 15 8:26 am
Earl-
The point is that a thesis is not just the development of a solution, but the exploration of a problem. Clearly you are examining the problem of urban and agriculture. Research the current solutions top-down, bottom-up, market driven, need based and then develop the response.
Good luck
almostthere
Jun 24, 15 10:37 am
Some of this info is a little dated and the numbers haven't been verified but it's good start on the practicalities of industrial scale indoor food production.
hi its been i couple of weeks since i posted , i just wanted to ask something , since the amount of floor area needed for 1 person per year (food consumption) is big , then i believe my only option is to produce the crops faster , is there any technology available for this? because i have been searching online i cant find that many sources , i would apperciate it if i could get some info on this thank you :D
Marc Miller
Jul 16, 15 12:08 pm
Earl- That depends.
Location drives lighting levels and growning seasons.
Plant types have varying times until fruiting.
It sounds like you need to make some judgement calls now that the reality doesn't align with your idea.
gwharton
Jul 16, 15 6:21 pm
"Vertical Farms" are a cute idea for a thesis project, but they don't work in real life. Just ask anybody who's done any actual farming rather than reading about it on the internet.
hi guys my thesis proposal is about , Housing with vertical farm
my concept is to design a building for the lower class people (who have little to no skill).
The building serves 2 function but is 1 unit , i have also done some research on existing
buildings of this nature ( but seperate either the vertical farm or the housing but never
combined) , i just wanted to ask where should i focus my energy on, during this
research period and what challenge may i face? thank you
thank you admin for approving :D
So you think lower class people will be needed when such a thing can easily be automated? If their skill set is low, a robot can do it.
no sir .kickrocks , my point is to help the poor with their condition i believe they need 3 basics factors to survive ,food -water- shelter , while also making the building itself sustainable. yes a robot can do it but considering my location here in philipphines , we are not there yet
And how much do you think they can produce from the divided farm space? Do you think yields will be good enough to even support a single household for long? Who's going to pay for all this? Will the "farmers" be able to profit or does it go back into the system to pay off some debt obligation?
for the amount and space i havent thought about it (and havent researched about it) but for the farmers sir ,for the yields i want by portion since vegetation takes time to grow, and what i propose is that the user them selfs are the farmers or maintanence workers since they have little to no skill ( they can be thought )
excuse me for my poor english :)
we have a housing agency that provides for the home
I get that but how much housing will be allocated? Since you want it in one unit I assume, there isn't going to be much livable space if you want high yields; or low yields if you want human habitation in there somewhere. Makes a nice patch to grow some food like herbs and flowers but won't sustain full meals. And then that's essentially a housing complex with greenery.
Assuming you have floors split for farming and housing, how high will it be? What's going to power this? There's a lot of issues with vertical farming (only) structures already considering the costs for what would be very cheap products that require a lot of maintenance.
It's not an idea I would oppose or be in favor of. There certainly won't be too many of these things built for altruistic reasons (talking hundreds of millions for nicer subsidized housing). But if you can address some of the issues with real-world practicality, like why go up when you can build horizontally closer or retrofit abandoned buildings that are more likely to output more produce without giving up way too much waste/inefficiency, then it's something forward.
thank you sir , i will look into these issues
well sir if i may ask what is the better approach to this? since i feel like my proposal is scattered all over the place. :D ,
I wouldn't make this about lower class people first of all. For what these buildings require daily, it won't be a low-skill job and thus makes the whole way-to-keep-the-poor-occupied thought moot. With the way technology advances, there'd be fewer people working anyways unless you make some old relic impromptu system--then it might as well be built inside an existing building left to rot.
What is your primary focus, farming or housing? See the problems with both and try to address the flaws that look to overlap. That might be the key to integration, at least theoretically.
thank you sir
first you need to find out the amount of food required to sustain one human per year, then need to figure out the space that will require. I think you will find that it is far greater than you are expecting. like 1-4 acres per person if I remember correctly. You will need to use technology to increase yeilds...hydroponics, aquaponics, etc. Still will require alot of space per person. Probably will not be able to grow all requred dietary varieties...wheat, tree fruits, beans, etc will be nearly impossible to grow hydroponically...so likely will have to look at it as a way to offset agricultural footprint or a way to suppliment diet...Also, You should avoid words like "the lower class people."
Where to begin-
1- Required yield per person. Theres no perfect number, but there are averages out there that will tell how many square feet are required per person. This is an exercise in itself given that you'll need to make diet decisions. It's not just meat or no meat, it how much space can you afford per person (getting protein from meat is more efficient than plant material when looking at sf).
2- Location- It the growing period is long enough the yields may be long enough to make your vertical farm unnecessary.
3-Infrastructure. Jla-x said it all.
4- Water and air quality. Being exposed to high levels of fertilizers in closed areas is not all that healthy. sure you could make compost and commode teas from crops, but you're adding meat into the mix (see number 1).
5- Research on how much a head of lettuce cost from a hydroponic garden versus one grown in soil. Then ask yourself if this the user group is the correct one.
There is a person who is Emeritus at Columbia Univeristy who champions this as the future of urban living. Sadly I cannot recall his name.
Lastly, Earl "the Pearl" (Monroe). Is it irony that his childhood neighborhood is lower class you hope to serve?
Area/volume needed per person varies a bit by type of agriculture; as Miles pointed out not everything can be grown in compact environments (I want to say there's some institute in the Rocky Mountains that looked into a self sufficient home? the Philippines ought to have a more favorable overall climate, but hurricanes might be scary).
The Dutch greenhouse technologies is one of the best out there (they export a large chunk of the produce in europe) and the Japanese and Chinese have been 'leasing' the technology (less chemicals, but much tighter technological oversight; that is to say you need a very rigorous training program) . Problem with most food production is the cost when done in small scales - and flat areas are more cost effective.
thank you for guiding sirs
@jlax - sorry for the term now that i think about it is abit disrespectfull
@marc miller - i couldnt come up with any user name , and my idol in basketball is jermaine oneal :D
@thank you sir hopefully i can comeback here with pratical approach
your welcome sir.
Earl-
The point is that a thesis is not just the development of a solution, but the exploration of a problem. Clearly you are examining the problem of urban and agriculture. Research the current solutions top-down, bottom-up, market driven, need based and then develop the response.
Good luck
Some of this info is a little dated and the numbers haven't been verified but it's good start on the practicalities of industrial scale indoor food production.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/sax5gzve93my1ag/01_light_plants.pdf?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/gqyt1si8bdkahyy/final_document.pdf?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/jn5d26p0ryf3d3m/defense_02.pdf?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8dok5eex972bea4/tower_layout_02.pdf?dl=0
high rise share cropping. skycropping.
hi its been i couple of weeks since i posted , i just wanted to ask something , since the amount of floor area needed for 1 person per year (food consumption) is big , then i believe my only option is to produce the crops faster , is there any technology available for this? because i have been searching online i cant find that many sources , i would apperciate it if i could get some info on this thank you :D
Earl- That depends.
Location drives lighting levels and growning seasons.
Plant types have varying times until fruiting.
It sounds like you need to make some judgement calls now that the reality doesn't align with your idea.
"Vertical Farms" are a cute idea for a thesis project, but they don't work in real life. Just ask anybody who's done any actual farming rather than reading about it on the internet.