in a year and a half i'll be graduating from PhilaU and I'm hoping to find work in the city. the title pretty much explains it all; what should I expect for starting salaries from the more commercial firms? If anyone works in phili and could give me any general direction/advice that'd be sweet.
also, i'm not sure if this improves my chances of finding work, but I have a couple summers worth of interning experience under my belt. i know of recent grads with zero undergrad experience scoring jobs in the city- does this experience (perhaps minuscule but still valuable) mean anything at the interview desk?
one more random question... what makes me, as a recent grad prospective employee, desirable to a employer?
Sivad Bop
Jun 10, 15 4:44 pm
Starting salaries:
Depends on your scene:
A) I know folks who work in a small, boutiquey arch/fabrication shop and get 17/hr as ind. contractors. They work pretty long hours and don't get overtime
B) There is a 15-25 person, well-loved office who pays their summer-only interns 17-18/hr, and their trial-for-hire new employees without much experience at least 20/hr. Working hours are sustainable, good benefits, and late nights around deadlines.
C) A 40-50 person multi-city firm with an office in philly, with nationally acclaimed work pays around 20/hr for new interns, and about 23/hr once they bring them on for a more steady contract. They scrutinize hires pretty heavily.
think 18-22/hr and don't be afraid to lean on your experience to get the upper end. Do you mean firms that are doing more commercial work? is that counting institutional? multi-use, condo residential projects? Philly is big on mid-sized firms doing schools, hospitals, college dorms+facilities, smallish-office buildings (think the IROKO bldg in navy yard). There is a slightly smaller, niche-ier group of firms doing stuff like progressive row homes in northern liberties etc.
experience:
Certainly means something, I think the easier jobs are the ones who are looking for some specific skill set to slot you into-- e.g. many firms are trying to transition to Revit and will gladly hire strongly competent Revit users. KTA's research group will look for people with some programming knowledge and fluency in moving information between different platforms (ecotect, revit, grasshopper, excel, etc). If your experience has translated into you being exceptionally fluent in the process of delivering architecture/dealing with clients, or just clearly strong communication and cooperation skills, you will be valuable anywhere. That's the whole how-you-carry-yourself thing.
desirability:
Well, you've got a head start. Phila U is known, and I mean outside Phila U, for producing ready-to-hire interns. Job rates out of there are high. They sort of hang their hat on it-- which is not exactly convention for schools these days. And there are plenty of fancy firms, I think Erdy McHenry right away, that have direct connections to Phila U, so it's not exactly an intern factory either. It might serve you well if you can articulate to a potential employer exact how you think school prepared you, and what your immediate and 5-year goals are. Then at least they'll know what to expect out of you. GSD grads are usually really smart, and can sometimes provide strong leadership out of the box-- but they have a rep for being flighty and uncommitted to jobs that end up not being their star vision in the first two years. Figure out where you lay on that spectrum and be yourself.
more cynically (e.g. this is not advice)... know revit, don't demand too much responsibility right away, and be comfortable getting bossed around by disorganized, irritable people who seem like they deserve their jobs and power much less than even you do. but, if you show real value anywhere, options will open up relatively quickly.
JeromeS
Jun 10, 15 5:38 pm
This is the reason I left architecture. I worked on the Jersey side of the river, not Philly, for a 10 person office.
10 years ago we had an intern who was graduating and looking for a full-time gig. He wanted $35k- and we wouldn't give it to him. I remember thinking at the time, WTF?, its barely a living wage. Reality was i was only making 20% more.
In 2012, i was at $47k salary and hadnt had a raise in 5 years. No bonuses either. Inflation had really kicked in after the '08 market collapse and i no longer had money to contribute to my IRA and there went my matching funds.
Moved to the other side of the table; spent a year with a GC and the last 2 with a Divison 8 supply company. I immediately got a 40% bump in salary, work way less, at a way easier job. Everybody goes home at 4:30- nobody works weekends.
BR.TN
Jun 10, 15 6:30 pm
"I immediately got a 40% bump in salary, work way less, at a way easier job. Everybody goes home at 4:30- nobody works weekends"
You and your coworkers are sheeps. You care more about money than what you devote your time to. A long way from prostitution, but maybe you'd be there too if you were good looking enough (somehow I can tell you aren't). You might think its the underpaid and overworked architects who are sheeps, but see, the good ones are working on making the world a better place when they wake up everyday.
Sivad Bop
Jun 10, 15 8:25 pm
Jerome$, I'm gonna keep my head in the sand about most of your comment, and chalk up your previous lack of advancement to being so close to Camden.
BR.TN, I was going to ask you to clarify whether your comment was sarcasm--but, the sentiment actually works either way.
Besides, if I started making money any time soon, I might end up actually needing to pay any of the principal on my loans before the forgiveness time. Thanks suckers!
JeromeS
Jun 10, 15 10:12 pm
^^ I see the trolls are out tonite. Two douchebags with 3 total posts between them have me all figured out.
I live a simple, modest life. I am not driven by money. My home is smaller than the national average but its paid for. Thanks for asking; I am good looking enough although I am getting older and i draw fewer looks than i used to. My wife is cute too.
I wish you both luck as you get older and find that neither one of you can afford a place to live, a new car or a vacation on your $17/hr. Children, forget about it. You have achieved a level of technical training and skill, been put through a 8 grueling years of training, similar to a doctor or attorney, 7 extensive licensing exams and you are talking about $17/hr.
I took steps to change my work so that i can best care for my family. I have my own start-up practice on the side so that i can make "the world a better place". I say what I do so that you can make a decision with your eyes wide open. As the saying goes (sort of) "You can have anything you want, at the expense of all else"
But, you've got it all figured out-
Sivad Bop
Jun 11, 15 9:37 am
^^ Whoa, buddy. I was being friendly. I appreciated your comment and was being self-deprecating about the truth behind your statements about not getting paid. It's a crummy profession for rewards proportionate to effort, and there are serious structural and cultural issues behind that fact. Truly horizontal partnerships with smart and sensitive GCs are really our only hope as a profession. The chip on your shoulder is not there because of me. I'm on the same team.
I'm pretty sure BR.TN's remark was sarcastic, because it's way too over-the-top repugnant to be serious. If it is, well then, I only have 3 posts behind me so haven't learned to properly gauge sarcasm around here.
Non Sequitur
Jun 11, 15 10:38 am
$17 an hour... so $36k/year?
Who's the chump that agrees to work in an office for that and call it a career?
As a side note, anyone who uses the term "sheep" or any other derivative of such should automatically have his/her opinions severely discounted.
BR.TN
Jun 11, 15 11:13 am
How am I supposed to fall asleep at night if I can't count the numbers of mindless people who are swayed by materialism and societal pressures of monetary reliance?
Realistically though I just don't understand his situation because I don't have a wife and children.
greetings.
in a year and a half i'll be graduating from PhilaU and I'm hoping to find work in the city. the title pretty much explains it all; what should I expect for starting salaries from the more commercial firms? If anyone works in phili and could give me any general direction/advice that'd be sweet.
also, i'm not sure if this improves my chances of finding work, but I have a couple summers worth of interning experience under my belt. i know of recent grads with zero undergrad experience scoring jobs in the city- does this experience (perhaps minuscule but still valuable) mean anything at the interview desk?
one more random question... what makes me, as a recent grad prospective employee, desirable to a employer?
Starting salaries:
Depends on your scene:
A) I know folks who work in a small, boutiquey arch/fabrication shop and get 17/hr as ind. contractors. They work pretty long hours and don't get overtime
B) There is a 15-25 person, well-loved office who pays their summer-only interns 17-18/hr, and their trial-for-hire new employees without much experience at least 20/hr. Working hours are sustainable, good benefits, and late nights around deadlines.
C) A 40-50 person multi-city firm with an office in philly, with nationally acclaimed work pays around 20/hr for new interns, and about 23/hr once they bring them on for a more steady contract. They scrutinize hires pretty heavily.
think 18-22/hr and don't be afraid to lean on your experience to get the upper end. Do you mean firms that are doing more commercial work? is that counting institutional? multi-use, condo residential projects? Philly is big on mid-sized firms doing schools, hospitals, college dorms+facilities, smallish-office buildings (think the IROKO bldg in navy yard). There is a slightly smaller, niche-ier group of firms doing stuff like progressive row homes in northern liberties etc.
experience:
Certainly means something, I think the easier jobs are the ones who are looking for some specific skill set to slot you into-- e.g. many firms are trying to transition to Revit and will gladly hire strongly competent Revit users. KTA's research group will look for people with some programming knowledge and fluency in moving information between different platforms (ecotect, revit, grasshopper, excel, etc). If your experience has translated into you being exceptionally fluent in the process of delivering architecture/dealing with clients, or just clearly strong communication and cooperation skills, you will be valuable anywhere. That's the whole how-you-carry-yourself thing.
desirability:
Well, you've got a head start. Phila U is known, and I mean outside Phila U, for producing ready-to-hire interns. Job rates out of there are high. They sort of hang their hat on it-- which is not exactly convention for schools these days. And there are plenty of fancy firms, I think Erdy McHenry right away, that have direct connections to Phila U, so it's not exactly an intern factory either. It might serve you well if you can articulate to a potential employer exact how you think school prepared you, and what your immediate and 5-year goals are. Then at least they'll know what to expect out of you. GSD grads are usually really smart, and can sometimes provide strong leadership out of the box-- but they have a rep for being flighty and uncommitted to jobs that end up not being their star vision in the first two years. Figure out where you lay on that spectrum and be yourself.
more cynically (e.g. this is not advice)... know revit, don't demand too much responsibility right away, and be comfortable getting bossed around by disorganized, irritable people who seem like they deserve their jobs and power much less than even you do. but, if you show real value anywhere, options will open up relatively quickly.
This is the reason I left architecture. I worked on the Jersey side of the river, not Philly, for a 10 person office.
10 years ago we had an intern who was graduating and looking for a full-time gig. He wanted $35k- and we wouldn't give it to him. I remember thinking at the time, WTF?, its barely a living wage. Reality was i was only making 20% more.
In 2012, i was at $47k salary and hadnt had a raise in 5 years. No bonuses either. Inflation had really kicked in after the '08 market collapse and i no longer had money to contribute to my IRA and there went my matching funds.
Moved to the other side of the table; spent a year with a GC and the last 2 with a Divison 8 supply company. I immediately got a 40% bump in salary, work way less, at a way easier job. Everybody goes home at 4:30- nobody works weekends.
"I immediately got a 40% bump in salary, work way less, at a way easier job. Everybody goes home at 4:30- nobody works weekends"
You and your coworkers are sheeps. You care more about money than what you devote your time to. A long way from prostitution, but maybe you'd be there too if you were good looking enough (somehow I can tell you aren't). You might think its the underpaid and overworked architects who are sheeps, but see, the good ones are working on making the world a better place when they wake up everyday.
Jerome$, I'm gonna keep my head in the sand about most of your comment, and chalk up your previous lack of advancement to being so close to Camden.
BR.TN, I was going to ask you to clarify whether your comment was sarcasm--but, the sentiment actually works either way.
Besides, if I started making money any time soon, I might end up actually needing to pay any of the principal on my loans before the forgiveness time. Thanks suckers!
^^ I see the trolls are out tonite. Two douchebags with 3 total posts between them have me all figured out.
I live a simple, modest life. I am not driven by money. My home is smaller than the national average but its paid for. Thanks for asking; I am good looking enough although I am getting older and i draw fewer looks than i used to. My wife is cute too.
I wish you both luck as you get older and find that neither one of you can afford a place to live, a new car or a vacation on your $17/hr. Children, forget about it. You have achieved a level of technical training and skill, been put through a 8 grueling years of training, similar to a doctor or attorney, 7 extensive licensing exams and you are talking about $17/hr.
I took steps to change my work so that i can best care for my family. I have my own start-up practice on the side so that i can make "the world a better place". I say what I do so that you can make a decision with your eyes wide open. As the saying goes (sort of) "You can have anything you want, at the expense of all else"
But, you've got it all figured out-
^^ Whoa, buddy. I was being friendly. I appreciated your comment and was being self-deprecating about the truth behind your statements about not getting paid. It's a crummy profession for rewards proportionate to effort, and there are serious structural and cultural issues behind that fact. Truly horizontal partnerships with smart and sensitive GCs are really our only hope as a profession. The chip on your shoulder is not there because of me. I'm on the same team.
I'm pretty sure BR.TN's remark was sarcastic, because it's way too over-the-top repugnant to be serious. If it is, well then, I only have 3 posts behind me so haven't learned to properly gauge sarcasm around here.
$17 an hour... so $36k/year?
Who's the chump that agrees to work in an office for that and call it a career?
As a side note, anyone who uses the term "sheep" or any other derivative of such should automatically have his/her opinions severely discounted.
How am I supposed to fall asleep at night if I can't count the numbers of mindless people who are swayed by materialism and societal pressures of monetary reliance?
Realistically though I just don't understand his situation because I don't have a wife and children.