Hello everyone! I applied for several jobs in new york (entry level and internships) about 3 weeks ago. I haven't heard anything back and it's stressing me out. Should I call or email? Or should I just keep waiting?
Ahmed Almonsouri
May 11, 15 1:25 pm
Also, if anyone has any tips for applying for jobs (or how to search for one other than on archinect.com) I would really appreciate it!
Non Sequitur
May 11, 15 1:28 pm
Emails are so easy to ignore. Pick up the phone and call.
Ahmed Almonsouri
May 11, 15 1:43 pm
Most of the firms say "no phone calls". Would that be my kiss of death for the job if I call?
Ahmed Almonsouri
May 11, 15 1:55 pm
Kozumelle, your comment just made my heart drop. How is it too late with firms still posting new postings looking for interns and entry level applicants? If I dont find a job by october I will be screwed because I will have to leave the states (the rules of OPT visa is to find a job within 3 months of opt start date, which for me is July 6th).
curtkram
May 11, 15 2:05 pm
no, i think NS is right here. call. if the only person you can talk to is a receptionist, talk to the receptionist. ask about the office. make it look like you care. it helps to actually care.
there are people other than executives you can talk to as well, like hiring managers. or even human resources. ask to talk to them, ask them about what they look for in candidates, what they like to see in a portfolio or a cover letter, etc.
ivorykeyboard
May 11, 15 2:07 pm
Don't call. Like Kozu said, you'll piss off the receptionist. You probably will have to wait until the summer interns are out the door, so start applying again around august/september. Do try calling/emailing senior level alumni in the city and networking in the meantime.
senjohnblutarsky
May 11, 15 2:18 pm
If you are afraid to call (you shouldn't be), do this.
Attend some local events where you know Architects of interest will be. Introduce yourself on social terms. Don't start begging for a job immediately. Be friendly, be yourself (unless those two don't mix).
Once you have them on the hook with some decent conversation, you may mention you're looking for employment.
Ahmed Almonsouri
May 11, 15 2:30 pm
Thank you all for the responses! I really appreciate it. I am def. a people's person, which is why all my professors have been telling me to go to events as well. Where do I look for upcoming events in Ny?
Non Sequitur
May 11, 15 2:32 pm
Curt, thanks for vote of confidence.
Koz, you have issues, I provided you a rational point of view and it cost you nothing... maybe you can toss another 30K in the trash and see if that makes you any better at starchitecturing.
Ahmed, I've never agreed with the "network" mantra many keep chanting. When I was out of grad school, I focused my search on offices that were openly hiring, tailored my application to those I felt more comfortable with, followed up with calls shortly afterwards. Communication and networking is useful but a good candidate with potential will always beat out a rich fool that values self-promotion over skill-set.
3tk
May 11, 15 3:10 pm
Firms in NYC are still hiring (as firms land projects, they may need help and find that some interns are useful). If you have an alumni network, that may help. You can also inquire about informational interviews - some firms do like to use those as a way for them to talk about themselves (others will turn you down), if they like you they may take you in.
If they say no calls, it usually is better to not call - some places get inundated by requests and hate having their lines busy with students (and not clients).
Ahmed Almonsouri
May 11, 15 3:47 pm
I will search about informational interviews. Is it normal for firms not to respond for 3 weeks-month? Should I be as worried as I am right now?
quizzical
May 11, 15 3:55 pm
Ahmed: while there is no universal truth here, I recommend that you take the "no calls" warning to heart. Firms are becoming increasingly busy with new work. On top of that, at this time of year we are inundated with credentials packages from both students and recent graduates looking for work. So - take a moment to consider that the staff in these firms are not just sitting around breathlessly waiting for your own credentials package to land on their desk(s).
Having been on the receiving end of these credentials packages for many years, I can tell you that most firms do the best they can to review and respond as quickly as possible. There are two simultaneous conditions that tends to prompt a timely response: a) a killer credentials package; and b) a very specific and immediate need to add staff. Absent those conditions, most firms tend to respond when they have the time to do so. Absent those conditions, firms will tend to be annoyed when certain individuals attempt to jump the line, especially in connection with an unsolicited credentials package..
In my experience, people in firms who do the hiring tend to react badly when candidates become too aggressive. When a firm says "no calls" they are sending you a message -- a message you probably ought to heed.
null pointer
May 11, 15 4:12 pm
So much bullshit.
The last 3 people who had the balls to call me and ask for a job had their resumes in front of a partner in about 3 hours, and I used to work at a pretty well known firm in NYC. All of them got interviews.
null pointer
May 11, 15 4:26 pm
but if you send me that weird "transgressive" portfolio, I'd ignore you and probably make fun of you over the phone.
Ahmed Almonsouri
May 11, 15 4:27 pm
Null pointer, what do you mean by that weird "transgressive" portfolio?
You dont have to be mean about it, and i changed it
quizzical
May 11, 15 5:01 pm
null: "So much bullshit."
Presumably, you're neither the receptionist nor the hiring manager - and those three who called presumably are friends, or at least, acquaintances.
Doesn't sound to me like your experiences have very much to do with Ahmed's situation at all.
null pointer
May 11, 15 5:50 pm
Kozumelle: Be quiet. Nobody need to read your attempts at comforting yourself by positing imaginary lives for other posters.
Wait let me try this: Kozumelle calls people miserable. She is probably living in a cave in the subsaharan Africa, really sad that 33.6k is just not enough bandwidth. How did I do?
Back to the subject at hand....
Quizzical They were qualified candidates that either found me through another forum where I post and where I noted my work place, or archinect back when I kept my identity public. Another one of them was a totally random call from a guy who went to my school, who knew no one I know (and presumably figured out I worked where I worked via LinkedIn).
Resourcefulness is where it's at. If you can get an oblique connection to management, you'll go places. Many places.
I actually got my current job by ignoring "no calls" and calling one of the firm's partners and introducing myself and noting some common acquaintances.
kickrocks
May 11, 15 6:55 pm
Reconsider your own position before trying to insult someone else.
awaiting_deletion
May 11, 15 8:31 pm
to OP we cant find anybody these days because everyone has a job....i find it hard to believe you cant find work in NYC.....email me your resume
null pointer
May 11, 15 8:53 pm
Ding ding. Definitely send something to Olaf. He knows his way around. Definitely does.
Kozumelle is "taking time off" from grad school, so take his advice with a grain of salt.
Ahmed Almonsouri
May 11, 15 9:00 pm
Olaf, i just emailed you through archinect!
awaiting_deletion
May 11, 15 9:16 pm
got it Ahmed. related to Kozumelle's other thread you do have that portfilio thread that could lead to possible issues, but i can recommmend you to plenty of firms that will not bother googling you and will take the resume and meeting you in person at face value.
awaiting_deletion
May 11, 15 9:17 pm
thanks null!
null pointer
May 11, 15 9:29 pm
kozumelle, are mad bro?
Ahmed Almonsouri
May 11, 15 9:30 pm
Kozumelle, I realized that some people tend to be mean here. Therefore, whenever someone says anything that is not very constructive, I just ignore them and pretend they don't exist. I want to focus my energy on bettering myself and learning from others :) thank you for all your advice and encouragement! It really helps in a time like this!
Ahmed Almonsouri
May 11, 15 9:34 pm
Olaf, I emailed archinect about deleting that thread because I realize now that it could sabotage me.
kickrocks
May 11, 15 10:11 pm
These threads should stay. Look, there's no shame asking for help. The way you are asking for input is probably not what someone on the verge of graduation would be doing but whatever. I can click on your profile and it says May 2015 graduation? That's just now and also a bit late if you had thought about securing work right after school.
Things like hiring take time. No instant gratification. The takeaway of this thread should be a reminder for you to plan things out a bit better. If you started sending out inquiries in say January, the results might very well be different.
Ahmed Almonsouri
May 11, 15 10:18 pm
Kickrocks, I def. learned my lesson. But nothing to do now than apply and apply and stay positive. I wish I sent my stuff out in January.
quizzical
May 11, 15 11:13 pm
Ahmed: " I wish I sent my stuff out in January"
That's the first really sensible thing you've posted.
Good luck - I wish you well.
natematt
May 12, 15 12:53 am
How many is "several"? Not long ago it seemed like getting one interview out of ten remote applications was doing really well. The market is better, but still.
Peter Normand
May 12, 15 10:48 am
Job hunt with little experience will take some time, 3 weeks is nothing, 6 months then I would worry. Networking and finding opportunities that you are a good fit for will take time, this is a 40 - 50 hours a week endeavor, you can relax once you have your first adaptable offer.
Don't limit to yourself to New York unless you have a very good reason.
Over and OUT
Peter N
toosaturated
May 14, 15 9:51 am
There's nothing special about architecture firms. The hiring process/job seraching etiquette is the same for any industry. You should at least call to follow up on the job. Three weeks might be a little late though, but at least call to find out so you dont have to keep waiting/hoping for a response. It's good practice to follow up on an application or an interview.
I am not sure if you are looking an summer internship, which is too late. But if you are looking for a intern architect/ entry level, it is not too late. Those jobs are always around but might be scarce. Your best bet is to search through discreet job boards such as your school's, company websites, your local AIA, or networking.
Instead of batch applying to many jobs with generic resumes/ cv's, take the time and tailor your resume/cv's/portfolio to that specific position. If it seems too hard to do so, then you are probably not qualified for the job.
Once I started taking this approach, I found that I was getting more responses and interviews than when I was just mass emailing every firm in my city. Also when you send in a shitty application, you kind of oust yourself from future opportunities at said firm.
Ahmed Almonsouri
May 14, 15 10:02 am
Toosaturated that is true, but I have been hearing people that work at HR who say that when they say in the job description (no phone calls) and applicants still call, it looks bad on the applicant because they "can't follow simple directions"
I have also been hearing the opposite, that it is good to show how much you care about getting that job.
I also tailor each cover letter to the firm, and I make sure it is not just a generic cover letter. I'm looking for jobs starting around August, so def. not summer internships. Almost all job postings for inteenships are asking for summer interns, so i dont think its late for anyone apllying for a summer internship.
archanonymous
May 14, 15 1:12 pm
If you really want to work in NY, get yourself to NY with $$ to crash on couches and stuff for 2 months. Then immerse yourself in arch + design culture and make something happen. Emails are too easy to ignore.
3tk
May 14, 15 1:59 pm
Also, I've noticed firms here in nyc tend to want to hire people who are already here. Maybe to avoid hassle of someone moving and then figuring out commutes, etc; others are concerned about having people move w/o guarantee of long term stable work.
pale shelter
May 14, 15 3:13 pm
Hey an ISU grad... is Chicago out of the question? Most of my classmates went there and worked for large firms; SOM, Adrian Smith GG, etc...Perkins + Will. So there is a decent ISU network there. Getting a job is all about networking (obviously) so... if you have absolutely no connections in NYC...well I'd get nervous as it's going to take luck and more time. Always call or email alumni at firms you're interested in... takes investigating but you'll find out info you want quickly.
Hello everyone! I applied for several jobs in new york (entry level and internships) about 3 weeks ago. I haven't heard anything back and it's stressing me out. Should I call or email? Or should I just keep waiting?
Also, if anyone has any tips for applying for jobs (or how to search for one other than on archinect.com) I would really appreciate it!
Emails are so easy to ignore. Pick up the phone and call.
Most of the firms say "no phone calls". Would that be my kiss of death for the job if I call?
Kozumelle, your comment just made my heart drop. How is it too late with firms still posting new postings looking for interns and entry level applicants? If I dont find a job by october I will be screwed because I will have to leave the states (the rules of OPT visa is to find a job within 3 months of opt start date, which for me is July 6th).
no, i think NS is right here. call. if the only person you can talk to is a receptionist, talk to the receptionist. ask about the office. make it look like you care. it helps to actually care.
there are people other than executives you can talk to as well, like hiring managers. or even human resources. ask to talk to them, ask them about what they look for in candidates, what they like to see in a portfolio or a cover letter, etc.
Don't call. Like Kozu said, you'll piss off the receptionist. You probably will have to wait until the summer interns are out the door, so start applying again around august/september. Do try calling/emailing senior level alumni in the city and networking in the meantime.
If you are afraid to call (you shouldn't be), do this.
Attend some local events where you know Architects of interest will be. Introduce yourself on social terms. Don't start begging for a job immediately. Be friendly, be yourself (unless those two don't mix).
Once you have them on the hook with some decent conversation, you may mention you're looking for employment.
Thank you all for the responses! I really appreciate it. I am def. a people's person, which is why all my professors have been telling me to go to events as well. Where do I look for upcoming events in Ny?
Curt, thanks for vote of confidence.
Koz, you have issues, I provided you a rational point of view and it cost you nothing... maybe you can toss another 30K in the trash and see if that makes you any better at starchitecturing.
Ahmed, I've never agreed with the "network" mantra many keep chanting. When I was out of grad school, I focused my search on offices that were openly hiring, tailored my application to those I felt more comfortable with, followed up with calls shortly afterwards. Communication and networking is useful but a good candidate with potential will always beat out a rich fool that values self-promotion over skill-set.
Firms in NYC are still hiring (as firms land projects, they may need help and find that some interns are useful). If you have an alumni network, that may help. You can also inquire about informational interviews - some firms do like to use those as a way for them to talk about themselves (others will turn you down), if they like you they may take you in.
If they say no calls, it usually is better to not call - some places get inundated by requests and hate having their lines busy with students (and not clients).
I will search about informational interviews. Is it normal for firms not to respond for 3 weeks-month? Should I be as worried as I am right now?
Ahmed: while there is no universal truth here, I recommend that you take the "no calls" warning to heart. Firms are becoming increasingly busy with new work. On top of that, at this time of year we are inundated with credentials packages from both students and recent graduates looking for work. So - take a moment to consider that the staff in these firms are not just sitting around breathlessly waiting for your own credentials package to land on their desk(s).
Having been on the receiving end of these credentials packages for many years, I can tell you that most firms do the best they can to review and respond as quickly as possible. There are two simultaneous conditions that tends to prompt a timely response: a) a killer credentials package; and b) a very specific and immediate need to add staff. Absent those conditions, most firms tend to respond when they have the time to do so. Absent those conditions, firms will tend to be annoyed when certain individuals attempt to jump the line, especially in connection with an unsolicited credentials package..
In my experience, people in firms who do the hiring tend to react badly when candidates become too aggressive. When a firm says "no calls" they are sending you a message -- a message you probably ought to heed.
So much bullshit.
The last 3 people who had the balls to call me and ask for a job had their resumes in front of a partner in about 3 hours, and I used to work at a pretty well known firm in NYC. All of them got interviews.
but if you send me that weird "transgressive" portfolio, I'd ignore you and probably make fun of you over the phone.
Null pointer, what do you mean by that weird "transgressive" portfolio?
http://archinect.com/forum/thread/124970461/provocative-portfolio-cover-yay-or-nay
this shit.
You dont have to be mean about it, and i changed it
null: "So much bullshit."
Presumably, you're neither the receptionist nor the hiring manager - and those three who called presumably are friends, or at least, acquaintances.
Doesn't sound to me like your experiences have very much to do with Ahmed's situation at all.
Kozumelle: Be quiet. Nobody need to read your attempts at comforting yourself by positing imaginary lives for other posters.
Wait let me try this: Kozumelle calls people miserable. She is probably living in a cave in the subsaharan Africa, really sad that 33.6k is just not enough bandwidth. How did I do?
Back to the subject at hand....
Quizzical They were qualified candidates that either found me through another forum where I post and where I noted my work place, or archinect back when I kept my identity public. Another one of them was a totally random call from a guy who went to my school, who knew no one I know (and presumably figured out I worked where I worked via LinkedIn).
Resourcefulness is where it's at. If you can get an oblique connection to management, you'll go places. Many places.
I actually got my current job by ignoring "no calls" and calling one of the firm's partners and introducing myself and noting some common acquaintances.
Reconsider your own position before trying to insult someone else.
to OP we cant find anybody these days because everyone has a job....i find it hard to believe you cant find work in NYC.....email me your resume
Ding ding. Definitely send something to Olaf. He knows his way around. Definitely does.
Kozumelle is "taking time off" from grad school, so take his advice with a grain of salt.
Olaf, i just emailed you through archinect!
got it Ahmed. related to Kozumelle's other thread you do have that portfilio thread that could lead to possible issues, but i can recommmend you to plenty of firms that will not bother googling you and will take the resume and meeting you in person at face value.
thanks null!
kozumelle, are mad bro?
Kozumelle, I realized that some people tend to be mean here. Therefore, whenever someone says anything that is not very constructive, I just ignore them and pretend they don't exist. I want to focus my energy on bettering myself and learning from others :) thank you for all your advice and encouragement! It really helps in a time like this!
Olaf, I emailed archinect about deleting that thread because I realize now that it could sabotage me.
These threads should stay. Look, there's no shame asking for help. The way you are asking for input is probably not what someone on the verge of graduation would be doing but whatever. I can click on your profile and it says May 2015 graduation? That's just now and also a bit late if you had thought about securing work right after school.
Things like hiring take time. No instant gratification. The takeaway of this thread should be a reminder for you to plan things out a bit better. If you started sending out inquiries in say January, the results might very well be different.
Kickrocks, I def. learned my lesson. But nothing to do now than apply and apply and stay positive. I wish I sent my stuff out in January.
Ahmed: " I wish I sent my stuff out in January"
That's the first really sensible thing you've posted.
Good luck - I wish you well.
How many is "several"? Not long ago it seemed like getting one interview out of ten remote applications was doing really well. The market is better, but still.
Job hunt with little experience will take some time, 3 weeks is nothing, 6 months then I would worry. Networking and finding opportunities that you are a good fit for will take time, this is a 40 - 50 hours a week endeavor, you can relax once you have your first adaptable offer.
Don't limit to yourself to New York unless you have a very good reason.
Over and OUT
Peter N
There's nothing special about architecture firms. The hiring process/job seraching etiquette is the same for any industry. You should at least call to follow up on the job. Three weeks might be a little late though, but at least call to find out so you dont have to keep waiting/hoping for a response. It's good practice to follow up on an application or an interview.
I am not sure if you are looking an summer internship, which is too late. But if you are looking for a intern architect/ entry level, it is not too late. Those jobs are always around but might be scarce. Your best bet is to search through discreet job boards such as your school's, company websites, your local AIA, or networking.
Instead of batch applying to many jobs with generic resumes/ cv's, take the time and tailor your resume/cv's/portfolio to that specific position. If it seems too hard to do so, then you are probably not qualified for the job.
Once I started taking this approach, I found that I was getting more responses and interviews than when I was just mass emailing every firm in my city. Also when you send in a shitty application, you kind of oust yourself from future opportunities at said firm.
Toosaturated that is true, but I have been hearing people that work at HR who say that when they say in the job description (no phone calls) and applicants still call, it looks bad on the applicant because they "can't follow simple directions"
I have also been hearing the opposite, that it is good to show how much you care about getting that job.
I also tailor each cover letter to the firm, and I make sure it is not just a generic cover letter. I'm looking for jobs starting around August, so def. not summer internships. Almost all job postings for inteenships are asking for summer interns, so i dont think its late for anyone apllying for a summer internship.
If you really want to work in NY, get yourself to NY with $$ to crash on couches and stuff for 2 months. Then immerse yourself in arch + design culture and make something happen. Emails are too easy to ignore.
Also, I've noticed firms here in nyc tend to want to hire people who are already here. Maybe to avoid hassle of someone moving and then figuring out commutes, etc; others are concerned about having people move w/o guarantee of long term stable work.
Hey an ISU grad... is Chicago out of the question? Most of my classmates went there and worked for large firms; SOM, Adrian Smith GG, etc...Perkins + Will. So there is a decent ISU network there. Getting a job is all about networking (obviously) so... if you have absolutely no connections in NYC...well I'd get nervous as it's going to take luck and more time. Always call or email alumni at firms you're interested in... takes investigating but you'll find out info you want quickly.