I'm 26, turning 27 soon, I have a bachelor degree in fine art, not architecture, and I am currently planning on going to grad school to get my first professional degree in the field. I currently work as an office assistant (mind numbing work) and waitress, so I don't have any awesome pre-graduate school experience. This question is kinda of silly, I guess, since there isn't any sort of age limit on higher education, however I concern is how I will be perceived once I graduate. At that point I will be 30, and the most experience that I anticipate having will be summer internships.
What sort of positions should I expect to be able to attain?
And will my age work against me; be seen as a negative by employers?
howdidigethere
May 4, 15 5:47 pm
I'll be 29 when I start this fall. I have worked in another field before this, but I couldn't see myself doing it for the rest of my life and the only way to become an architect is to go back to school (or spend a decade+ working for one in some states). I wish I started younger, but life gets in the way sometimes.
Frankly, you have nowhere to go but up. If this is what you see yourself doing, go for it now rather than later. You'll be taking a risk no matter what grad degree you choose. The only other option is remaining where you are and it sounds like you don't want to be there.
JLC-1
May 4, 15 6:06 pm
there is so much to learn while practicing that age is not a factor in any way. and many say an architect is only mature professionally after 45.
Beepbeep
May 4, 15 6:49 pm
You will be on the younger side or about average age in your M.arch class, it tends to be a bit more mature class. Well at least mine was. I started my at 26 or 27 graduated at 30 and still young. The only people younger in the firms will be the people that did the B.arch. No one will listen to you until at least 40 anyway ahaha.
citizen
May 4, 15 7:49 pm
I'd suggest you're too young. But go for it and good luck...
David Cole, AIA
May 4, 15 9:12 pm
I was 39 when I got my MArch degree. Most of my classmates were in their mid-to-late-20s, with a few in their 30s.
chigurh
May 4, 15 10:03 pm
no, but you are dumb if you do.
mwpetri
May 4, 15 11:04 pm
@chigurh Why do you say that?
Driko
May 4, 15 11:30 pm
There was this man who had to be in his 40s starting his B.arch when I started. He has some of the best work in class and we all respected him. Takes dedication.
bowling_ball
May 5, 15 2:36 am
Was 31 when I graduated and my apparent maturity (real or imagined) has been good for me in the 4 years since. If you think you've made up your mind, don't wait.
geezertect
May 5, 15 7:10 am
Never too late to get on a sinking ship.
chigurh
May 5, 15 12:35 pm
@ op, because architecture is a dying profession.
You will go to school for 3-3.5 years spend anywhere from 50-250k on your education depending on where you go to school. You will get out and look for a job (hopefully not in the midst of a recession) and you will be lucky to land a position that can pay you 50k/year. Assuming you are any good (about 8 out of 10 graduates suck, my figure) you might be able to move up in responsibility and $, but it will take time. In addition, the working world is filled with egomaniacs, frustrating mismanagement, and inefficiencies.
The profession is dying because the general public sees our services as completely unnecessary. All these home transformation shows on TV do a total disservice to the profession by compressing the amount of time and money that goes into a building project. In addition, you have every home trained interior designer, engineer, builder and online plans site eroding away at our credibility and necessity.
If you are friends with a lot of 1%ers you will do well. If you are middle class, look elsewhere for a profession.
s=r*(theta)
May 5, 15 1:10 pm
i was 34 when I graduated with my M.Arch
pale shelter
May 5, 15 4:57 pm
problem is the education you receive as an architect isn't focused, a few science/structures classes and too much time dilly dallying around with design design design. Design skill isn't worth going in debt for and waste of time in school to attain; it really just takes passion and personal time. Like a hobby. I equate it to playing playing... you get better with practice time. But design is only ironically 10% of your job as an architect, although it's 90% of curriculum. Now the things you should be learning at school; like construction knowledge, how to build a building, coordination with all the numerous consultants, knowledge of what they do, MEP, soils, engineering, knowledge of contractors, building systems, specs, law, contracts, real estate, etc.... all of this is barely touched on in 5-7 years of an architect's education...
So you come out of school and really begin your education at your job ... waiting 5-7 years to accumulate enough knowledge in your profession to finally earn respect/knowledge and the starting salaries of engineers, generic business degree grads, accountants, finance ppl, marketing grads, etc.... because they actually had a focus in school. Something architects hate... (focus). We want to do everything.
So an architect friend took me out to dinner the other day because he wanted to influence me to considering hiring him and his buddy at their friendly new "firm" for a future development project with my company. I asked, what experience do you have in multi-family 6 story concrete podium wood frame construction, say 200 units?? "Well that sounds like an awesome project...we haven't done anything like that, but we would hire people in to help with the experience .. we're talented designers, but that kind of fee would be incredible... we'd be able to hire in all the consultants we want"... That response makes an Owner feel comfortable doesn;t it? What does 'talented designer' mean? Knowledge..No. But this is very common among architects with even 10 years in out of school ... very rarely do you find focused expert architects. Our education does not provide that unfortunately.
BR.TN
May 5, 15 5:06 pm
No, but you're too old to be asking this question.
Quentin P
May 6, 15 12:31 pm
I graduated at 27. And I was on the older side. I would say 70% were 23-24 and then 25-27 made up 20%, and then a few were over 30. In my class of 40, I would say there were maybe 3-4 people over 30.I wouldn't let age bother you though, go for it!
3tk
May 6, 15 3:15 pm
Age can depend on the program (some like the energetic younger crowd, others attract a more mature older crowd), but most are in the mid-20s. A lot of established programs like students with a bit of experience so they tend to be in the mid-20s. My class had a few 2nd career folks in the late 30s, early 40s. They had a very different perspective on school and didn't work the crazy hours others did (both because they felt like they didn't need to and also because the physical toll was bad). Some had children too, so juggling is possible, though tough.
midlander
May 7, 15 7:05 am
^ a bit off topic, but Pale Shelter makes a good point. Architecture school is surprisingly unprofessional - even the good ones don't provide much that is of value to most clients.
OP, when you graduate, age will be no issue to most employers - inexperience and lack of skills will be. So if you do go back to school, figure out what kind of career you want to aim for before you get too far in. Then do what it takes to learn what you need for that.
There are good jobs in the wider field (not necessarily as designers, though if you're persistent that's possible) but you need focus and real knowledge to get them. School doesn't set you up for that. But if you have a goal when you start, you can direct your education towards that and be in a much better place than most students when you finish studying.
3tk
May 7, 15 9:31 am
^wholeheartedly agree.
mwpetri
May 9, 15 12:50 pm
@ pale shelter. Thanks for your input! I'm coming from an art background, so one of my major concerns is making sure that I gain practical knowledge of engineering and building. Do you think this is something that can be gained through a combination of more practical elective courses and internships? The two areas of architecture that are of most interest to me are green/energy efficient building practices and restoration/improvement of existing structures. Any tips on skills/courses would be most beneficial in these areas?
@ BR.TN. I know, but I wanted to insight into whether my age would have any effect on my employability this seemed like a reasonable way to do that.
@ midlander. As I said above in my reply to pale shelter, I'm interested in green and energy efficient building practices and reuse of existing structures. Do you have any suggestions for other areas that I could explore in the field? Particularly areas that are frequently overlooked that I could focus some of my elective credits on? My current plan is to focus as much as I can, within the constraints of my program, on the practical engineering side as I feel that is where I need to improve the most.
midlander
May 9, 15 11:15 pm
A big part of this then will be your choice of school. Some universities offer programs in sustainable design and rehabilitation/preservation which would suit you. I wouldn't plan on taking a few extra courses in this - see if you can do a combined degree, or at least a minor. This way you'll have some credentials to show you've done real study in the topic.
I know Carnegie Mellon has a master's program in sustainable architecture with a focus on building performance within their architecture school. There are certainly other universities that offer similar programs. I recommend finding a few you would be willing to attend and contacting the architecture college directly to explain your goals and ask how you could pursue an accredited m.arch with a focus in these areas. They'll be happy to explain the options and how to go about applying if you are interested.
Your interests are pretty marketable, so if you do well in school and make an effort to be connected to the professional community through internships and maybe being active in the local AIA or USGBC you will be in a strong position when you graduate. It won't make you rich but you you will probably be able to get a position that's a bit better than the typical draftsman-internship when you start. The big firms especially are interested in people with knowledge of sustainable building and building performance. Good luck.
pnj02c
May 12, 15 9:33 pm
I wouldn't let your age work against you. Like many other people said, you are actually on the young side. Architecture is (and has been for some time) a grey-hair profession. Look up how old Norman Foster and Richard Rogers were when they went to Yale and you might feel better (Foster spent his twenties as a bouncer).
The other thing to consider is that your architecture degree can be applied to more places than just strict architecture practice. Out in Los Angeles, its fairly common, for example for many people who get a degree in architecture to jump to the film industry and work as art directors or set designers (1, because you make significantly more money faster, on very high-profile projects, and 2 you aren't encumbered by legal and philosophical restraints that licensed architects have to deal with and thirdly you can do whatever the hell you want design-wise).
There are also people with architecture degrees who go to work at places like Vornado and Extell and Related -- the huge development firms that are building these megaprojects in New York. Again you'll make significantly more money, but rather than being the designer of the building you get to apply your good taste often in the crafting and creating of a project and the selection of an architect and interior designer to lead the process (which is probably the most important part of the creative process - making sure you have the right people on the job). That takes an architect's insight not just the prevailing tastes of the primary stakeholders.
There are countless other places your degree can come in handy besides actual practice (where you can become influential faster than you would in architecture proper). And even if you do practice the nice thing is that its a profession that you don't have to retire from, especially if you one day open your own firm. Philip Johnson was active in the architecture community well into his senior years. Frank Gehry is in his mid-80s, I.M. Pei is damn near 100. Norman Foster and Bob Stern are also well into their later years. People like Bjarke Ingalls who became so popular in his thirties are rare for the profession (even Bjarke has admitted that architecture is a grown man's game). At 27 I wouldn't worry about being too young, you haven't even started the climb up the mountain yet.
accesskb
May 14, 15 2:30 am
I'm 35 and plan to go do my master's in 2 years. There are no short cuts in this profession. Architecture is like slow cooking. It takes years to master and it is constant learning. You either have passion for it, stick with it and build upon your acquired skills until you die, or its not meant for you.
Hi,
I'm 26, turning 27 soon, I have a bachelor degree in fine art, not architecture, and I am currently planning on going to grad school to get my first professional degree in the field. I currently work as an office assistant (mind numbing work) and waitress, so I don't have any awesome pre-graduate school experience. This question is kinda of silly, I guess, since there isn't any sort of age limit on higher education, however I concern is how I will be perceived once I graduate. At that point I will be 30, and the most experience that I anticipate having will be summer internships.
What sort of positions should I expect to be able to attain?
And will my age work against me; be seen as a negative by employers?
I'll be 29 when I start this fall. I have worked in another field before this, but I couldn't see myself doing it for the rest of my life and the only way to become an architect is to go back to school (or spend a decade+ working for one in some states). I wish I started younger, but life gets in the way sometimes.
Frankly, you have nowhere to go but up. If this is what you see yourself doing, go for it now rather than later. You'll be taking a risk no matter what grad degree you choose. The only other option is remaining where you are and it sounds like you don't want to be there.
there is so much to learn while practicing that age is not a factor in any way. and many say an architect is only mature professionally after 45.
You will be on the younger side or about average age in your M.arch class, it tends to be a bit more mature class. Well at least mine was. I started my at 26 or 27 graduated at 30 and still young. The only people younger in the firms will be the people that did the B.arch. No one will listen to you until at least 40 anyway ahaha.
I'd suggest you're too young. But go for it and good luck...
I was 39 when I got my MArch degree. Most of my classmates were in their mid-to-late-20s, with a few in their 30s.
no, but you are dumb if you do.
@chigurh Why do you say that?
There was this man who had to be in his 40s starting his B.arch when I started. He has some of the best work in class and we all respected him. Takes dedication.
Was 31 when I graduated and my apparent maturity (real or imagined) has been good for me in the 4 years since. If you think you've made up your mind, don't wait.
Never too late to get on a sinking ship.
@ op, because architecture is a dying profession.
You will go to school for 3-3.5 years spend anywhere from 50-250k on your education depending on where you go to school. You will get out and look for a job (hopefully not in the midst of a recession) and you will be lucky to land a position that can pay you 50k/year. Assuming you are any good (about 8 out of 10 graduates suck, my figure) you might be able to move up in responsibility and $, but it will take time. In addition, the working world is filled with egomaniacs, frustrating mismanagement, and inefficiencies.
The profession is dying because the general public sees our services as completely unnecessary. All these home transformation shows on TV do a total disservice to the profession by compressing the amount of time and money that goes into a building project. In addition, you have every home trained interior designer, engineer, builder and online plans site eroding away at our credibility and necessity.
If you are friends with a lot of 1%ers you will do well. If you are middle class, look elsewhere for a profession.
i was 34 when I graduated with my M.Arch
problem is the education you receive as an architect isn't focused, a few science/structures classes and too much time dilly dallying around with design design design. Design skill isn't worth going in debt for and waste of time in school to attain; it really just takes passion and personal time. Like a hobby. I equate it to playing playing... you get better with practice time. But design is only ironically 10% of your job as an architect, although it's 90% of curriculum. Now the things you should be learning at school; like construction knowledge, how to build a building, coordination with all the numerous consultants, knowledge of what they do, MEP, soils, engineering, knowledge of contractors, building systems, specs, law, contracts, real estate, etc.... all of this is barely touched on in 5-7 years of an architect's education...
So you come out of school and really begin your education at your job ... waiting 5-7 years to accumulate enough knowledge in your profession to finally earn respect/knowledge and the starting salaries of engineers, generic business degree grads, accountants, finance ppl, marketing grads, etc.... because they actually had a focus in school. Something architects hate... (focus). We want to do everything.
So an architect friend took me out to dinner the other day because he wanted to influence me to considering hiring him and his buddy at their friendly new "firm" for a future development project with my company. I asked, what experience do you have in multi-family 6 story concrete podium wood frame construction, say 200 units?? "Well that sounds like an awesome project...we haven't done anything like that, but we would hire people in to help with the experience .. we're talented designers, but that kind of fee would be incredible... we'd be able to hire in all the consultants we want"... That response makes an Owner feel comfortable doesn;t it? What does 'talented designer' mean? Knowledge..No. But this is very common among architects with even 10 years in out of school ... very rarely do you find focused expert architects. Our education does not provide that unfortunately.
No, but you're too old to be asking this question.
I graduated at 27. And I was on the older side. I would say 70% were 23-24 and then 25-27 made up 20%, and then a few were over 30. In my class of 40, I would say there were maybe 3-4 people over 30.I wouldn't let age bother you though, go for it!
Age can depend on the program (some like the energetic younger crowd, others attract a more mature older crowd), but most are in the mid-20s. A lot of established programs like students with a bit of experience so they tend to be in the mid-20s. My class had a few 2nd career folks in the late 30s, early 40s. They had a very different perspective on school and didn't work the crazy hours others did (both because they felt like they didn't need to and also because the physical toll was bad). Some had children too, so juggling is possible, though tough.
^ a bit off topic, but Pale Shelter makes a good point. Architecture school is surprisingly unprofessional - even the good ones don't provide much that is of value to most clients.
OP, when you graduate, age will be no issue to most employers - inexperience and lack of skills will be. So if you do go back to school, figure out what kind of career you want to aim for before you get too far in. Then do what it takes to learn what you need for that.
There are good jobs in the wider field (not necessarily as designers, though if you're persistent that's possible) but you need focus and real knowledge to get them. School doesn't set you up for that. But if you have a goal when you start, you can direct your education towards that and be in a much better place than most students when you finish studying.
^wholeheartedly agree.
@ pale shelter. Thanks for your input! I'm coming from an art background, so one of my major concerns is making sure that I gain practical knowledge of engineering and building. Do you think this is something that can be gained through a combination of more practical elective courses and internships? The two areas of architecture that are of most interest to me are green/energy efficient building practices and restoration/improvement of existing structures. Any tips on skills/courses would be most beneficial in these areas?
@ BR.TN. I know, but I wanted to insight into whether my age would have any effect on my employability this seemed like a reasonable way to do that.
@ midlander. As I said above in my reply to pale shelter, I'm interested in green and energy efficient building practices and reuse of existing structures. Do you have any suggestions for other areas that I could explore in the field? Particularly areas that are frequently overlooked that I could focus some of my elective credits on? My current plan is to focus as much as I can, within the constraints of my program, on the practical engineering side as I feel that is where I need to improve the most.
A big part of this then will be your choice of school. Some universities offer programs in sustainable design and rehabilitation/preservation which would suit you. I wouldn't plan on taking a few extra courses in this - see if you can do a combined degree, or at least a minor. This way you'll have some credentials to show you've done real study in the topic.
I know Carnegie Mellon has a master's program in sustainable architecture with a focus on building performance within their architecture school. There are certainly other universities that offer similar programs. I recommend finding a few you would be willing to attend and contacting the architecture college directly to explain your goals and ask how you could pursue an accredited m.arch with a focus in these areas. They'll be happy to explain the options and how to go about applying if you are interested.
Your interests are pretty marketable, so if you do well in school and make an effort to be connected to the professional community through internships and maybe being active in the local AIA or USGBC you will be in a strong position when you graduate. It won't make you rich but you you will probably be able to get a position that's a bit better than the typical draftsman-internship when you start. The big firms especially are interested in people with knowledge of sustainable building and building performance. Good luck.
I wouldn't let your age work against you. Like many other people said, you are actually on the young side. Architecture is (and has been for some time) a grey-hair profession. Look up how old Norman Foster and Richard Rogers were when they went to Yale and you might feel better (Foster spent his twenties as a bouncer).
The other thing to consider is that your architecture degree can be applied to more places than just strict architecture practice. Out in Los Angeles, its fairly common, for example for many people who get a degree in architecture to jump to the film industry and work as art directors or set designers (1, because you make significantly more money faster, on very high-profile projects, and 2 you aren't encumbered by legal and philosophical restraints that licensed architects have to deal with and thirdly you can do whatever the hell you want design-wise).
There are also people with architecture degrees who go to work at places like Vornado and Extell and Related -- the huge development firms that are building these megaprojects in New York. Again you'll make significantly more money, but rather than being the designer of the building you get to apply your good taste often in the crafting and creating of a project and the selection of an architect and interior designer to lead the process (which is probably the most important part of the creative process - making sure you have the right people on the job). That takes an architect's insight not just the prevailing tastes of the primary stakeholders.
There are countless other places your degree can come in handy besides actual practice (where you can become influential faster than you would in architecture proper). And even if you do practice the nice thing is that its a profession that you don't have to retire from, especially if you one day open your own firm. Philip Johnson was active in the architecture community well into his senior years. Frank Gehry is in his mid-80s, I.M. Pei is damn near 100. Norman Foster and Bob Stern are also well into their later years. People like Bjarke Ingalls who became so popular in his thirties are rare for the profession (even Bjarke has admitted that architecture is a grown man's game). At 27 I wouldn't worry about being too young, you haven't even started the climb up the mountain yet.
I'm 35 and plan to go do my master's in 2 years. There are no short cuts in this profession. Architecture is like slow cooking. It takes years to master and it is constant learning. You either have passion for it, stick with it and build upon your acquired skills until you die, or its not meant for you.