We were rferred a project through an owners rep to help their client a new home on a recently purchased, clear lot.
Trouble is, the clients been through several architects, all pretty good in my opinion. The client has a strong personality, young-ish, and cares very mich about hos prject, but my sense is that their desire to get every detail just right has crippled them from making meaningful progress on the design. They also seem to have somewhat unrealistic expectations on fee.
We are a small landscape architecture practice but do a fair amount of planning and visioning. So we're fairly accustomed to providing conceptual massing, articulating form. I think we do a pretty good job of faking it, but these are typically long range visioning projects that will never be built. Its different when youre dealing with a private client on such a small scale. I was leery, not so much about getting involved before the architecture had been worked out, but because i wanted to manage the clients expectations, making sure they understood we would not design the building, but can help study massing and siting options to help set the table for the architect later.
We presented three sketch plan options studying driveway alignment, building massing, planting, viewsheds, etc. Spent a couple days developing sketches. Long story short, client kind of bugged out on the details, had lots of questions. We had a frank dialogue. I expressed my confidence in our work and how the process can work. After about an hour we hung up, not knowing if we would hear from him again. He decided to keep going with us, provided lots of feedback, we addressed it...dont know where it will go from here..
Long story, I know.
Really just needing a place to vent and see if anyone out there has worked on a residential project this way? Im sure someone has, and im fairly confident it can work, but would love to hear anyones experience..
Carrera
Apr 23, 15 11:35 pm
Larch, going through multiple architects is a red flag.... you need to call these architects to get insight on this guy, and what happened, less you do a repeat. I also think that it's unethical to work with him if he has outstanding invoices from these firms. You should run your visioning concept by these guys.... learn from them not us. Guess the watchword on this one is "caution".
Miles Jaffe
Apr 24, 15 9:11 am
been through several architects ... somewhat unrealistic expectations on fee
Run Forrest, run!
toosaturated
Apr 24, 15 9:16 am
Trust your instincts, they are pretty good
Larchinect
Apr 24, 15 7:03 pm
I probably made the situation sound worse than it is based on the responses...maybe not.
We've been fortunate not to have had many, or any clients that have been dissatisfied, but its to be expected. Of course, we are our own worse critics, so I get kind of introspective wondering what we are missing.
I think there are just a whole array of issues--we need to go through some sort of design process, that process involves thinking, all of this requires time. Time is valuable.
Im an optimist deep down, so its hard to give up on a problem like this, but I guess sometimes you can only do what you can do.
Larchinect
Apr 24, 15 7:06 pm
Carrera--Just to clarify, as far as I know he has paid all previous consultants. They did simple studies, built some 3D models, not unlike what I have done. Its really a tiny deal, but still frustrating. I'm fairly certain I already know what the previous consultants would say. thanks for the feedback.
geezertect
Apr 24, 15 7:16 pm
.......strong personality....youngish..........
Yes, run.
Carrera
Apr 24, 15 7:34 pm
Larch, that’s fine, would be careful on this one though.
Back to your original premise….sometime I think it’s smart to start with visioning…and massing studies from a landscape architect, should happen that way more frequently….did a few that way near the end and the projects benefited greatly....were collaborations though.
,,,,
Apr 24, 15 7:59 pm
Sounds like you should be prepared to fire this client.
I bet they do not value what your firm can do for them. You are giving them solid professional advice and they are jerking your chain.
Larchinect
Apr 24, 15 8:17 pm
thanks carerra. looking back at what we delivered I think this approach can be very appropriate. I just think this client is trying to short cut the process. AT the same time he wants to see the meta thinking, as he is distrustful, or doesnt inderstand what we are doing. I think the only way to make it work will be through a charette.
Carrera
Apr 24, 15 8:25 pm
Larch, man, this guy is a tough nut to crack. A charette for a house? Guy might need to see a doctor instead:)
TIQM
Apr 24, 15 10:43 pm
This actually sounds like almost every project we have.
Miles Jaffe
Apr 25, 15 9:23 am
A couple of terms from my dictionary come to mind here:
SPRICK, spoiled rich kid
False Authority Syndrome, the tendency to believe that wealth translates into intelligence, taste, superiority in any form, etc. FAS can take many forms ranging from self-delusion to mass hysteria.
We've got more than our fair share of both here.
Larchinect
Apr 25, 15 10:04 am
too many more of these types of clients and im going to have to start stocking your book miles.
Miles Jaffe
Apr 25, 15 1:28 pm
I always give one to prospective clients. It helps me sort them out.
Carrera
Apr 25, 15 4:11 pm
Miles, maybe the "sorting out" is a two way street...know I wouldn’t work with you before reading a manual:)
gruen
Apr 26, 15 9:26 am
Have an honest conversation w the client and offer to fire them if they won't let you manage the process / if they won't trust you. Tell them your misgivings about working with them.
Miles Jaffe
Apr 26, 15 11:49 am
Sorting out is definitely a two-way street, and it sounds like OP's client is sorting for cheap.
We were rferred a project through an owners rep to help their client a new home on a recently purchased, clear lot.
Trouble is, the clients been through several architects, all pretty good in my opinion. The client has a strong personality, young-ish, and cares very mich about hos prject, but my sense is that their desire to get every detail just right has crippled them from making meaningful progress on the design. They also seem to have somewhat unrealistic expectations on fee.
We are a small landscape architecture practice but do a fair amount of planning and visioning. So we're fairly accustomed to providing conceptual massing, articulating form. I think we do a pretty good job of faking it, but these are typically long range visioning projects that will never be built. Its different when youre dealing with a private client on such a small scale. I was leery, not so much about getting involved before the architecture had been worked out, but because i wanted to manage the clients expectations, making sure they understood we would not design the building, but can help study massing and siting options to help set the table for the architect later.
We presented three sketch plan options studying driveway alignment, building massing, planting, viewsheds, etc. Spent a couple days developing sketches. Long story short, client kind of bugged out on the details, had lots of questions. We had a frank dialogue. I expressed my confidence in our work and how the process can work. After about an hour we hung up, not knowing if we would hear from him again. He decided to keep going with us, provided lots of feedback, we addressed it...dont know where it will go from here..
Long story, I know.
Really just needing a place to vent and see if anyone out there has worked on a residential project this way? Im sure someone has, and im fairly confident it can work, but would love to hear anyones experience..
Larch, going through multiple architects is a red flag.... you need to call these architects to get insight on this guy, and what happened, less you do a repeat. I also think that it's unethical to work with him if he has outstanding invoices from these firms. You should run your visioning concept by these guys.... learn from them not us. Guess the watchword on this one is "caution".
been through several architects ... somewhat unrealistic expectations on fee
Run Forrest, run!
Trust your instincts, they are pretty good
I probably made the situation sound worse than it is based on the responses...maybe not.
We've been fortunate not to have had many, or any clients that have been dissatisfied, but its to be expected. Of course, we are our own worse critics, so I get kind of introspective wondering what we are missing.
I think there are just a whole array of issues--we need to go through some sort of design process, that process involves thinking, all of this requires time. Time is valuable.
Im an optimist deep down, so its hard to give up on a problem like this, but I guess sometimes you can only do what you can do.
Carrera--Just to clarify, as far as I know he has paid all previous consultants. They did simple studies, built some 3D models, not unlike what I have done. Its really a tiny deal, but still frustrating. I'm fairly certain I already know what the previous consultants would say. thanks for the feedback.
.......strong personality....youngish..........
Yes, run.
Larch, that’s fine, would be careful on this one though.
Back to your original premise….sometime I think it’s smart to start with visioning…and massing studies from a landscape architect, should happen that way more frequently….did a few that way near the end and the projects benefited greatly....were collaborations though.
Sounds like you should be prepared to fire this client.
I bet they do not value what your firm can do for them. You are giving them solid professional advice and they are jerking your chain.
thanks carerra. looking back at what we delivered I think this approach can be very appropriate. I just think this client is trying to short cut the process. AT the same time he wants to see the meta thinking, as he is distrustful, or doesnt inderstand what we are doing. I think the only way to make it work will be through a charette.
Larch, man, this guy is a tough nut to crack. A charette for a house? Guy might need to see a doctor instead:)
This actually sounds like almost every project we have.
A couple of terms from my dictionary come to mind here:
SPRICK, spoiled rich kid
False Authority Syndrome, the tendency to believe that wealth translates into intelligence, taste, superiority in any form, etc. FAS can take many forms ranging from self-delusion to mass hysteria.
We've got more than our fair share of both here.
too many more of these types of clients and im going to have to start stocking your book miles.
I always give one to prospective clients. It helps me sort them out.
Miles, maybe the "sorting out" is a two way street...know I wouldn’t work with you before reading a manual:)
Have an honest conversation w the client and offer to fire them if they won't let you manage the process / if they won't trust you. Tell them your misgivings about working with them.
Sorting out is definitely a two-way street, and it sounds like OP's client is sorting for cheap.