I'm doing some research into unpaid internship practices around the world. Japan, for example, has a very different attitude about what constitutes a fair unpaid architectural internship than the U.S. What has your experience been, and what countries have you worked in? What, if any, are the prevailing cultural norms/assumptions regarding internships in the countries you've worked in/are from?
It is very hard for me to respect someone professionally if they have worked an unpaid position in a for profit office.
chigurh
Apr 16, 15 6:02 pm
you are getting screwed if you are working for free that is my cultural norm.
natematt
Apr 16, 15 6:28 pm
Every time there is a thread about unpaid internships I like to make the point that seriously underpaid internships are also and maybe even a more serious of a problem, because they tend to sneak in under the radar and are widespread. I have known so many people who have been offered and even taken $200-1000.00 a month. This with degrees in architecture and even experience.
x-jla
Apr 16, 15 6:28 pm
ahh...shitty behavior under the guise of "cultural norms"
BulgarBlogger
Apr 16, 15 6:34 pm
I've worked at an office that did that... only for a few months... I negotiated that the research work I did would be unpaid with the compensation being that I got authorship of the material I produced while the CD work I did was paid.
Unfortunately, for others at the company, that didn't work out that way. That was one of the many reasons I quit.
JLC-1
Apr 16, 15 8:57 pm
My two internships were unpaid, in factI had to payfor the credits; both were a class with itsschedule and asignments. First one was to rebuild a chapel that had been burned down by Pinochet's tonton macoutes in a poor neighborhood. Second was working at a building dept helping people legaliza their autoconstruction. Im sure I learned more than sitting on a desk drafting bathrooms. I believe this system in the US serves no purpose other than squeeze money out of students for a long time after they are out of school. Btw, I got licensed upon graduation, as everyone else.
x-jla
Apr 17, 15 1:41 am
^ what country?
x-jla
Apr 17, 15 1:43 am
Chile...?
x-jla
Apr 17, 15 1:44 am
The US system is designed by lobbyists...What do you expect...
sameolddoctor
Apr 17, 15 2:28 am
The only thing I say to unpaid interns is "Fuck you loser"
JLC-1
Apr 17, 15 7:40 am
Yes. Chile.
awaiting_deletion
Apr 17, 15 7:50 am
i will say this, sometimes a kid out of school or in school has learned so little skills and gone off so far into lala land that not paying them justified. matter of fact, someone that useless that has to be retrained completely costs the boss money........i mean i rarely see this since most kids can pick up a few things in a week or two, but you can thank the US education system for putting an architect student in massive debt and preparing them for failure...
JLC-1
Apr 17, 15 11:17 am
how nice to have a fund trust to pursue your dreams
x-jla
Apr 17, 15 11:31 am
^ you are making it impossible for people who do not have parental support and who may be more deserving of the job than you...
curtkram
Apr 17, 15 11:40 am
you are breaking a written code of honor among architects...
just because you see yourself as worthless doesn't mean the rest of us see you as worthless
Unpaid internships are illegal in the US if you are doing the work of an employee.
curtkram
Apr 17, 15 12:10 pm
i can't speak to how it works in other countries, but in the US the economy is set up in such a way that you have to work for money. without working for money it's hard to pay for things like food and rent, and it's illegal to poach or squat.
if there is some sort of subsidy or other system set up where you can be an apprentice or have some other unpaid position while being given food and housing and other necessities through another system then it might work. in a traditional apprenticeship (like the way it worked a hundred years ago), as i understand it the apprentice lived with the master and they were provided room and board and all that.
unpaid internships in other industries in the US work in such a way that a student works a few hours a week at a firm. they get course credit and the institution they're applying for would typically have financial assistance programs available, and often university dormitories and cafeteria plans and the like. in architecture, unpaid internship often means you're actually working full time out of school.
3tk
Apr 17, 15 12:16 pm
It's one thing if you're doing it is part of academia, but another if the firm is making money for your work.
Japan's open desk system is meant to be more of a job shadowing experience where they do take the time to teach you the practice; a lot of other countries do this as well and view it as an extension of your education.
Note that in most case you aren't paying $35,000~$50,000/year to go to school.
JLC-1
Apr 17, 15 12:40 pm
im sorry, but my parental support stopped when I graduated, not after I worked unpaid for some crazy reason, like being in a "succesful" firm. by the way, how do you define success??I think thats going to shed some light into what are we talking here.
Non Sequitur
Apr 17, 15 12:49 pm
Koz, I have no problem labelling a fool anyone who defends unpaid internships.
louis80
Apr 17, 15 12:53 pm
So if I were to get an offer from someone like OMA for free I should just turn my nose up at it? Or tell them I want to be paid? What happens if they take back the offer? It is a hard thing to turn down !
You are an adult upon graduation. If they ask you to work for free threaten to turn them over to the DOL. then "suggest" a cash advance to refrain from doing so + salary with benefits. Grow some balls lad!
Non Sequitur
Apr 17, 15 12:56 pm
Koz, sometimes things need to be demonized and in the case of unpaid internships, they totally deserve the hate.
Donna Sink
Apr 17, 15 1:08 pm
You guys are dancing around Julia's question without addressing it. She specifically cites Japan as a place where unpaid internships are accepted with a very different attitude than they are in the US. Kozumelle, you explained one reason why that might be true, but can you elucidate a bit more?
I don't exactly know the attitude in the EU. What are the attitude and laws regarding unpaid work in architecture firms in Rotterdam (OMA) or Amsterdam? What about Italy, where apparently an architecture degree is enormously popular?
I do know that in the US the law is very clear and currently public opinion is veering strongly towards condemnation of not paying people who do work, especially if they aren't also getting class credit. I had a friend in the 80s - an Austrian national, so not a USian - who worked in Eisenmann's NYC office for a summer; his payment was an Eisenmann Tshirt. That shit is thankfully disappearing now.
Also, as a potential future employer, my attitude towards someone who took an unpaid internship at a star firm would be that they lack self-confidence.
Non Sequitur
Apr 17, 15 1:41 pm
Stockholm syndrome much?
JLC-1
Apr 17, 15 3:01 pm
dear k, you have no need to feel sorry for me. I can't copy it here, but strongly suggest you listen to "You can't always get what you want" from the Rolling Stones
no_form
Apr 18, 15 5:20 pm
I know two American citizens who worked in Japan for starchitects. They both were paid for their internships there. Also I don't think it's fair to call young inexperienced graduates cowards or lacking balls. They are willing to make personal sacrifices to get their foot in the door at places that could launch the rest of their careers. The economy in America is still tough especially for those worthless la la fresh graduates. It may be their best option. They could work retail or they could work for free with people at the top of their craft. After their 12 hour shifts they can moonlight on Craigslist and also keep looking for paid work. We have little place to chastise people trying to build a career in what they love doing.
x-jla
Apr 18, 15 6:54 pm
^ I see it much differently as a person from a working poor family...These graduates are adults. Some are in their late 20s early 30s. Working for free is basically undercutting others who simply cannot work for free. Bad enough Grads have to deal with all sorts of burdemsome barriers to entry...overregulation...professional protectionism...Working for free is not a barrier but a brick wall for many...
no_form
Apr 18, 15 7:55 pm
jla-x I am from the same economic position as you. As much as working for free undercuts others, much like giving away free services that is discussed on here. There are also privileged graduates who get in those same offices because they were in said starchitects studio at an ivy, both working for free.
In my mind it's just how that system works. If you want to get into that circle it's up to the graduate to decide. Otherwise they can look for work at less reknowed but talented offices that actually pay. Or you can always look at who the architect of record is for starchitects projects and go work for them and more likely get paid. Lot of choices but I wouldn't work for free personally.
gwharton
Apr 22, 15 10:11 pm
A little over twenty years ago, when I was nearing graduation and looking for my first full-time internship position in the last big recession (with a pregnant wife, so no pressure), I'd sent out resumes and portfolios to dozens of firms all over the country. Of the responses I got, two were from big-name starchitecture firms back east. Both of them offered me unpaid internships, and I turned both of them down.
It was hard to say no when somebody famous is offering me a job, but we all have to look after ourselves and those who are depending on us. The situation was a little clearer for me, since I had impending family obligations and needed a source of income, but really the choice should be the same for anybody who has self-respect, whether you're independently wealthy or not.
If you agree to work for free, you are sending the message that your labor and the products thereof have no economic value. Is that really what you believe about yourself?
And as a counter-argument to "but I'd get to work with [INSERT UNSCRUPULOUS STARCHITECT NAME HERE] and have awesome portfolio work!" Do keep in mind that most of the rest of us know that interning in places like that is mostly low-level scut work, with very little of the kind of thing that would really enhance your value as an employee. You might be able to get a famous project into your portfolio, but anybody looking at it is going to ask you what your contribution was, knowing that it wasn't design authorship of any kind.
Having said that, I am a firm believer in the principle of "Work to Learn, not Earn." It can be worth trading income for a learning opportunity. But you need to be absolutely sure up front that you're going to get what you expect out of it. You still need to make enough money to buy food and pay rent. And how much can you really learn from a boss who has so little respect for you that he won't pay you for your work?
hsiuchi
Apr 24, 15 11:57 am
I've just finished 3 internships in Japan, 2 unpaid and one paid. Still in Tokyo, preparing to go back to Vancouver for a full time job offer in a small but reputable firm.
I have lots of answers for anyone who is curious.
Having read lots of negative comments directed at people who have had this kind of experience or are considering it, I really would like to just clarify some things:
1: I think its really unfair to stereotype or look down on those who are considering these kinds of opportunities. Part of me thinks we should actually set our egos aside for a moment and realistically evaluate what our skills are upon graduating. Some people are talented yes, but some people are really not prepared. If you recognize thats you, then you should be humble enough to do everything you can to bring yourself up to speed. Japan internships is not the only way, but it is one way.
For me, I would never do an unpaid internship in the US or anywhere other than Japan, because here it is literally the interview process, not the firm trying to pull one over on you. In Japan even as a potential staff, in professions out side of architecture, there is often a 3 month unpaid trial period, thats how you are evaluated. The government has in place something like an "employment training fund" to help citizens during these trial periods. The culture is built on the apprenticeship system, meaning you work for free but you will most definitely be rewarded generously in ways other than renumeration. This is truer for some firms and less true for others. Again if you want details feel free to email me.
2: I recognize that it takes a lot of money to do an unpaid internship in Japan, and yes it would seem only the financially privileged has this opportunity accessible to them. This is why if anyone is every considering of doing this, DON'T DO IT FOR JUST A NAME ON A RESUME. Then it really would be that you just used money to buy resume cred, that is what's truly unfair. If you are going to invest this amount of time, money and energy into an unpaid or low paying internship, the only way to justify it is if you will actually be learning something that you otherwise cannot not learn any other way, anywhere else. And it is possible to have experiences like that in Japan, I'm not talking about just traveling experiences, but real working experiences too, it really is very unique how they do business and design here.
But you have to pull your share of the weight too, you can't just show up and expect to leave in a month fully enlightened without having a plan of your own. I feel like all negative experiences of Japanese internships are from people who did not do their homework. Come for the internship opportunity, but actively pursue projects and experiences you want to work on, let the people in charge know that you are not going to just blindly do free work, but you actually want to work on projects that are meaningful to you, and get yourself in meetings and talk to stakeholders and have experiences that are valuable to you personally.
3: I actually have a lot of respect for people now who have gone through a Japanese internship, either as just an intern or as a staff candidate (there is a difference). I don't think it is a sign of weakness or lack of confidence, rather, I think is bravery. You have to really think you are the shit to believe you have a chance at employment at one of these firms. I've gone through many types of positions. As a potential employer, I would probably hire you on the spot if I see that you've tried for staff position in Japan.
In summary:
Yes it is unfair that only people in the right financial situation gets to do this, but trust me the name alone will not get your foot in the door, it is still what you've learned and whether or not you are good enough for proper employment.
And yes it sucks that you will not be paid for a brief amount of time. But in hind sight it will be a blip in the span of your career, and if you do it correctly and take charge and be smart about how you are learning, you will be rewarded in ways that is (in my opinion) more valuable than money.
Lastly, do it for a short time, then get the fuck out and go find a real job. Look at it as a one or two month working holiday, not career work. Then you'll have different expectation going in and you well less likely feel resentful after a while for not being paid. If you really want to settle down and find work in Japan, then thats a completely different ball game with a whole 'nother set of considerations and you should not be reading this post.
It is not the ideal way to start a career, and there have been shitty times for me, but I honestly feel that I've gained skills and experiences I would never trade for anything. Yes I'm very much in debt, but I've manage to get myself into a good firm with a steady paycheque so that I can now slowly chip away at this debt.
I hope this helps, even if just a little. More so I hope the comments from here on stays positive, everyone here is just trying to find information, lets try to help each other, and not put people down for their choices.
Again feel free to email me if you have any questions about Japan and internships!
Sandy
Non Sequitur
Apr 24, 15 12:10 pm
I have no problem not respecting applicants who work/ed for free.
It's an insult to the profession.
hsiuchi
Apr 24, 15 12:28 pm
I have no problem not respecting people who has enough free time to troll forums all day long.
Non Sequitur
Apr 24, 15 12:36 pm
^who said I was trolling?
I'm actually swamped with work but just felt the need to remind the masses that however you cut it, unpaid internships are terrible.
toosaturated
Apr 24, 15 2:19 pm
Don't do it, have some self-respect. If you don't value your time, who would? The client?
LITS4FormZ
Apr 24, 15 2:54 pm
The janitor doesn't work for free, neither should you.
Josh Mings
Apr 26, 15 10:09 pm
Never work for free, ever. It cheapens the profession. I had an unpaid internship offer from an architect I admired and I told him where he could stick that offer. The architects that offer the unpaid internships are just as bad as the interns that accept them. It's a self defeating spiral that devalues the profession.
Hello everyone,
I'm doing some research into unpaid internship practices around the world. Japan, for example, has a very different attitude about what constitutes a fair unpaid architectural internship than the U.S. What has your experience been, and what countries have you worked in? What, if any, are the prevailing cultural norms/assumptions regarding internships in the countries you've worked in/are from?
http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs71.pdf
It is very hard for me to respect someone professionally if they have worked an unpaid position in a for profit office.
you are getting screwed if you are working for free that is my cultural norm.
Every time there is a thread about unpaid internships I like to make the point that seriously underpaid internships are also and maybe even a more serious of a problem, because they tend to sneak in under the radar and are widespread. I have known so many people who have been offered and even taken $200-1000.00 a month. This with degrees in architecture and even experience.
ahh...shitty behavior under the guise of "cultural norms"
I've worked at an office that did that... only for a few months... I negotiated that the research work I did would be unpaid with the compensation being that I got authorship of the material I produced while the CD work I did was paid.
Unfortunately, for others at the company, that didn't work out that way. That was one of the many reasons I quit.
My two internships were unpaid, in factI had to payfor the credits; both were a class with itsschedule and asignments. First one was to rebuild a chapel that had been burned down by Pinochet's tonton macoutes in a poor neighborhood. Second was working at a building dept helping people legaliza their autoconstruction. Im sure I learned more than sitting on a desk drafting bathrooms. I believe this system in the US serves no purpose other than squeeze money out of students for a long time after they are out of school. Btw, I got licensed upon graduation, as everyone else.
^ what country?
Chile...?
The US system is designed by lobbyists...What do you expect...
The only thing I say to unpaid interns is "Fuck you loser"
Yes. Chile.
i will say this, sometimes a kid out of school or in school has learned so little skills and gone off so far into lala land that not paying them justified. matter of fact, someone that useless that has to be retrained completely costs the boss money........i mean i rarely see this since most kids can pick up a few things in a week or two, but you can thank the US education system for putting an architect student in massive debt and preparing them for failure...
how nice to have a fund trust to pursue your dreams
^ you are making it impossible for people who do not have parental support and who may be more deserving of the job than you...
you are breaking a written code of honor among architects...
just because you see yourself as worthless doesn't mean the rest of us see you as worthless
http://www.aia.org/aiaucmp/groups/aia/documents/pdf/aiab100944.pdf
http://www.aia.org/practicing/AIAB086222
http://architectureintern101.blogspot.com/2010/03/paying-interns-its-not-just-good-idea.html
Unpaid internships are illegal in the US if you are doing the work of an employee.
i can't speak to how it works in other countries, but in the US the economy is set up in such a way that you have to work for money. without working for money it's hard to pay for things like food and rent, and it's illegal to poach or squat.
if there is some sort of subsidy or other system set up where you can be an apprentice or have some other unpaid position while being given food and housing and other necessities through another system then it might work. in a traditional apprenticeship (like the way it worked a hundred years ago), as i understand it the apprentice lived with the master and they were provided room and board and all that.
unpaid internships in other industries in the US work in such a way that a student works a few hours a week at a firm. they get course credit and the institution they're applying for would typically have financial assistance programs available, and often university dormitories and cafeteria plans and the like. in architecture, unpaid internship often means you're actually working full time out of school.
It's one thing if you're doing it is part of academia, but another if the firm is making money for your work.
Japan's open desk system is meant to be more of a job shadowing experience where they do take the time to teach you the practice; a lot of other countries do this as well and view it as an extension of your education.
Note that in most case you aren't paying $35,000~$50,000/year to go to school.
im sorry, but my parental support stopped when I graduated, not after I worked unpaid for some crazy reason, like being in a "succesful" firm. by the way, how do you define success??I think thats going to shed some light into what are we talking here.
Koz, I have no problem labelling a fool anyone who defends unpaid internships.
So if I were to get an offer from someone like OMA for free I should just turn my nose up at it? Or tell them I want to be paid? What happens if they take back the offer? It is a hard thing to turn down !
You are an adult upon graduation. If they ask you to work for free threaten to turn them over to the DOL. then "suggest" a cash advance to refrain from doing so + salary with benefits. Grow some balls lad!
Koz, sometimes things need to be demonized and in the case of unpaid internships, they totally deserve the hate.
You guys are dancing around Julia's question without addressing it. She specifically cites Japan as a place where unpaid internships are accepted with a very different attitude than they are in the US. Kozumelle, you explained one reason why that might be true, but can you elucidate a bit more?
I don't exactly know the attitude in the EU. What are the attitude and laws regarding unpaid work in architecture firms in Rotterdam (OMA) or Amsterdam? What about Italy, where apparently an architecture degree is enormously popular?
I do know that in the US the law is very clear and currently public opinion is veering strongly towards condemnation of not paying people who do work, especially if they aren't also getting class credit. I had a friend in the 80s - an Austrian national, so not a USian - who worked in Eisenmann's NYC office for a summer; his payment was an Eisenmann Tshirt. That shit is thankfully disappearing now.
Also, as a potential future employer, my attitude towards someone who took an unpaid internship at a star firm would be that they lack self-confidence.
Stockholm syndrome much?
dear k, you have no need to feel sorry for me. I can't copy it here, but strongly suggest you listen to "You can't always get what you want" from the Rolling Stones
I know two American citizens who worked in Japan for starchitects. They both were paid for their internships there. Also I don't think it's fair to call young inexperienced graduates cowards or lacking balls. They are willing to make personal sacrifices to get their foot in the door at places that could launch the rest of their careers. The economy in America is still tough especially for those worthless la la fresh graduates. It may be their best option. They could work retail or they could work for free with people at the top of their craft. After their 12 hour shifts they can moonlight on Craigslist and also keep looking for paid work. We have little place to chastise people trying to build a career in what they love doing.
^ I see it much differently as a person from a working poor family...These graduates are adults. Some are in their late 20s early 30s. Working for free is basically undercutting others who simply cannot work for free. Bad enough Grads have to deal with all sorts of burdemsome barriers to entry...overregulation...professional protectionism...Working for free is not a barrier but a brick wall for many...
jla-x I am from the same economic position as you. As much as working for free undercuts others, much like giving away free services that is discussed on here. There are also privileged graduates who get in those same offices because they were in said starchitects studio at an ivy, both working for free.
In my mind it's just how that system works. If you want to get into that circle it's up to the graduate to decide. Otherwise they can look for work at less reknowed but talented offices that actually pay. Or you can always look at who the architect of record is for starchitects projects and go work for them and more likely get paid. Lot of choices but I wouldn't work for free personally.
A little over twenty years ago, when I was nearing graduation and looking for my first full-time internship position in the last big recession (with a pregnant wife, so no pressure), I'd sent out resumes and portfolios to dozens of firms all over the country. Of the responses I got, two were from big-name starchitecture firms back east. Both of them offered me unpaid internships, and I turned both of them down.
It was hard to say no when somebody famous is offering me a job, but we all have to look after ourselves and those who are depending on us. The situation was a little clearer for me, since I had impending family obligations and needed a source of income, but really the choice should be the same for anybody who has self-respect, whether you're independently wealthy or not.
If you agree to work for free, you are sending the message that your labor and the products thereof have no economic value. Is that really what you believe about yourself?
And as a counter-argument to "but I'd get to work with [INSERT UNSCRUPULOUS STARCHITECT NAME HERE] and have awesome portfolio work!" Do keep in mind that most of the rest of us know that interning in places like that is mostly low-level scut work, with very little of the kind of thing that would really enhance your value as an employee. You might be able to get a famous project into your portfolio, but anybody looking at it is going to ask you what your contribution was, knowing that it wasn't design authorship of any kind.
Having said that, I am a firm believer in the principle of "Work to Learn, not Earn." It can be worth trading income for a learning opportunity. But you need to be absolutely sure up front that you're going to get what you expect out of it. You still need to make enough money to buy food and pay rent. And how much can you really learn from a boss who has so little respect for you that he won't pay you for your work?
I've just finished 3 internships in Japan, 2 unpaid and one paid. Still in Tokyo, preparing to go back to Vancouver for a full time job offer in a small but reputable firm.
I have lots of answers for anyone who is curious.
Having read lots of negative comments directed at people who have had this kind of experience or are considering it, I really would like to just clarify some things:
1: I think its really unfair to stereotype or look down on those who are considering these kinds of opportunities. Part of me thinks we should actually set our egos aside for a moment and realistically evaluate what our skills are upon graduating. Some people are talented yes, but some people are really not prepared. If you recognize thats you, then you should be humble enough to do everything you can to bring yourself up to speed. Japan internships is not the only way, but it is one way.
For me, I would never do an unpaid internship in the US or anywhere other than Japan, because here it is literally the interview process, not the firm trying to pull one over on you. In Japan even as a potential staff, in professions out side of architecture, there is often a 3 month unpaid trial period, thats how you are evaluated. The government has in place something like an "employment training fund" to help citizens during these trial periods. The culture is built on the apprenticeship system, meaning you work for free but you will most definitely be rewarded generously in ways other than renumeration. This is truer for some firms and less true for others. Again if you want details feel free to email me.
2: I recognize that it takes a lot of money to do an unpaid internship in Japan, and yes it would seem only the financially privileged has this opportunity accessible to them. This is why if anyone is every considering of doing this, DON'T DO IT FOR JUST A NAME ON A RESUME. Then it really would be that you just used money to buy resume cred, that is what's truly unfair. If you are going to invest this amount of time, money and energy into an unpaid or low paying internship, the only way to justify it is if you will actually be learning something that you otherwise cannot not learn any other way, anywhere else. And it is possible to have experiences like that in Japan, I'm not talking about just traveling experiences, but real working experiences too, it really is very unique how they do business and design here.
But you have to pull your share of the weight too, you can't just show up and expect to leave in a month fully enlightened without having a plan of your own. I feel like all negative experiences of Japanese internships are from people who did not do their homework. Come for the internship opportunity, but actively pursue projects and experiences you want to work on, let the people in charge know that you are not going to just blindly do free work, but you actually want to work on projects that are meaningful to you, and get yourself in meetings and talk to stakeholders and have experiences that are valuable to you personally.
3: I actually have a lot of respect for people now who have gone through a Japanese internship, either as just an intern or as a staff candidate (there is a difference). I don't think it is a sign of weakness or lack of confidence, rather, I think is bravery. You have to really think you are the shit to believe you have a chance at employment at one of these firms. I've gone through many types of positions. As a potential employer, I would probably hire you on the spot if I see that you've tried for staff position in Japan.
In summary:
Yes it is unfair that only people in the right financial situation gets to do this, but trust me the name alone will not get your foot in the door, it is still what you've learned and whether or not you are good enough for proper employment.
And yes it sucks that you will not be paid for a brief amount of time. But in hind sight it will be a blip in the span of your career, and if you do it correctly and take charge and be smart about how you are learning, you will be rewarded in ways that is (in my opinion) more valuable than money.
Lastly, do it for a short time, then get the fuck out and go find a real job. Look at it as a one or two month working holiday, not career work. Then you'll have different expectation going in and you well less likely feel resentful after a while for not being paid. If you really want to settle down and find work in Japan, then thats a completely different ball game with a whole 'nother set of considerations and you should not be reading this post.
It is not the ideal way to start a career, and there have been shitty times for me, but I honestly feel that I've gained skills and experiences I would never trade for anything. Yes I'm very much in debt, but I've manage to get myself into a good firm with a steady paycheque so that I can now slowly chip away at this debt.
I hope this helps, even if just a little. More so I hope the comments from here on stays positive, everyone here is just trying to find information, lets try to help each other, and not put people down for their choices.
Again feel free to email me if you have any questions about Japan and internships!
Sandy
I have no problem not respecting applicants who work/ed for free.
It's an insult to the profession.
I have no problem not respecting people who has enough free time to troll forums all day long.
^who said I was trolling?
I'm actually swamped with work but just felt the need to remind the masses that however you cut it, unpaid internships are terrible.
Don't do it, have some self-respect. If you don't value your time, who would? The client?
The janitor doesn't work for free, neither should you.
Never work for free, ever. It cheapens the profession. I had an unpaid internship offer from an architect I admired and I told him where he could stick that offer. The architects that offer the unpaid internships are just as bad as the interns that accept them. It's a self defeating spiral that devalues the profession.