Can anyone familiar with either of these programs share their experiences? I am particularly looking at the M.Arch.I, but any answers are helpful!
What is the studio culture/environment in general? Competitive vs. cooperative? Unhealthy vs. healthy?
How much of an opportunity is there for mentorship from professors?
What is the general attitude of professors towards students? Do they only come around for studio/class time? Do they seek to get to know students by being in the studio beyond required hours or attending lectures/other events?
Did the program assist you in looking for employment, either through some sort of job fair or other avenue?
What were living arrangements like? Do students generally live very close to the school? How much would you say the average student spends on living expenses per month?
Really, any feedback on either program is extremely helpful and appreciated!!
Alternative
Apr 1, 15 2:57 pm
For what it's worth, Yale is a smaller program, and it's six rather than seven semesters. Those factors cut in favor of Yale. New Haven is also a bit cheaper than Cambridge. Have you visited the respective schools? I would suggest that you pull back the shiny veneer of the admitted students days, and actually try to get a sense of whether students are happy by talking to students who are in studio and not speakers at some school-organized panel. You want don't want to get all of your information from the institutional cheerleaders.
Also, calculate total cost of each program. Yale will end up being cheaper by virtue of the fact that it's shorter. Try to leverage financial aid packages against the other institutions (if GSD gave you more money, use that to convince Yale to give you more, as well).
Good luck. And don't go into six-figure debt for either.
sirhc
Apr 1, 15 3:24 pm
From what I've read, Archhopeful was also offered full tuition from WUSTL. I know all you advocates of "cheapest is the best" would suggest her to go to WUSTL, but she's already smart enough to figure out that the cheapest choice is not the best choice in many cases.
I'd be interested in hearing answers to her original questions. Cost obviously isn't a driving factor for her.
Alternative
Apr 1, 15 3:26 pm
Actually, if that's the case, I would urge her to strongly consider Wash. U.
sirhc
Apr 1, 15 3:27 pm
Smart person like her knows it's worth the $$$ to go to GSD or Yale.
Alternative
Apr 1, 15 3:28 pm
^^ (person who has attended neither GSD nor Yale)
Non Sequitur
Apr 1, 15 3:29 pm
Smart people don't try to convince themselves (and others) that $100k plus degrees are worth the debt.
Can you stop with the cheapest option crap? You have a dedicated thread already and everyone already knows the basic rule: don't pay way too much for school. It's not a novel idea only you stumbled upon and nothing you need to bring up every damn time.
archhopeful
Apr 1, 15 3:32 pm
I did receive full tuition at WashU, but the need based aid from GSD/Yale comes pretty close. I would appreciate any responses to the original questions!
Alternative
Apr 1, 15 3:33 pm
In fact, not everyone knows not to pay way too much for school, so the message bears repeating.
archhopeful
Apr 1, 15 3:33 pm
(Also no one here said anything about $100,000+ in debt...but thanks for looking out!)
Alternative
Apr 1, 15 3:35 pm
With respect to professors-- this is going to be the same at GSD and Yale. Some are going to be more accessible than others depending on the studio. Most students are going to live a short walk or bike ride away from campus. Your ability to get a job will have to do with hustle. Certain offices in New York are very Yale-centric, or very GSD-centric. That demands more familiarity with particular offices than with the schools, themselves. GSD has a (questionably helpful) job fair.
Like arch school admissions, your portfolio for employment will matter more than your pedigree.
I sincerely hope that helps.
natematt
Apr 1, 15 3:44 pm
All comments concerning the financial aspect of this are a bit out of context. If you read the post from which her full tuition at WUSTL was pulled you'd realize she also got a big chunk of money from Harvard, so it's not like she's paying it all. She didn't have a financial figure for Yale, so sure, if it was significantly more expensive then it could be a big factor, but I think for the sake of her questions given her previous post it's worth just shutting it about cost and talking about the actual qualities of the school that she is asking about.
Anyone else care to comment on that?
Alternative
Apr 1, 15 3:49 pm
More GSD vs. Yale platitudes that will have no effect on professional prospects (keep in mind she's attending a professional school, but that seems to be out of everyone's mind on this forum):
(1) Yale has more of an emphasis on drawing and building the first year;
(2) Yale has Eisenman, for better or for worse. GSD has Mohsen (whose "mission" seems unclear to me - internationalism? I guess);
(3) GSD has more laser cutters and robots (but more students, so it evens out around finals season);
(4) GSD M.Arch I will mix together students with non-arch backgrounds with those who have unaccredited arch. degrees. Yale places non-arch kids in a required summer prep course. The GSD method of throwing everyone into the shuffle does a disservice to non-arch students during the first year.
(5) The GSD degree WILL take you four years. Everyone splits. That's one more year out of the workforce.
(6) GSD is more cutthroat. Both are somewhat bitchy (these are effete, elite architecture schools after all).
(7) Mental health seems to be a problem at the GSD.
(8) You will see many of the same visiting profs at theboth schools. Some of the members at the same firms will teach at either school (see, e.g., MOS).
More questions?
Alternative
Apr 1, 15 3:57 pm
To add to point (2), Preston Scott Cohen's vision inheres the GSD architecture program.
You'll also have MAUD and landscape people which sort of cross-pollinate at the GSD, and you won't have quite that interdisciplinary environment at Yale.
toasteroven
Apr 1, 15 11:03 pm
Only thing I'm going to say about the GSD is that you really need to graduate with some humility. Boston area firms are very wary of GSD grads for this reason. If you choose to stay in the city and work, you will very likely end up working under someone who went to the BAC or Wentworth and they will know a whole lot more than you about the business and practice of architecture. If you are capable and willing to learn from these people in the same way you learn from your profs and peers in school you will do very well in this profession.
20100720105
Apr 1, 15 11:38 pm
gsd seems to provide a bigger platform? if you want a cross-discipline environment with landscape, planning, etc. and of course it's more competitive(also more bitchy as mentioned before), which might be good for your future practice. if i were you and both schools provide similar funding opportunites, i guess Gsd
Lian Chikako Chang
Apr 2, 15 11:31 am
Yo, Scott Cohen hasn't been the chair of GSD's architecture program for over a year.
video_killed
Apr 2, 15 12:13 pm
@Alternative
What is your background and where did you go to school? You seem to be very anti-Ivy and anti-taking out loans of any kind. What are the personal experiences that got you there?
You can't just expect us to take your advice blindly without understanding the context.
Alternative
Apr 2, 15 12:25 pm
How is anything that I wrote anti-Ivy? All I've told her is not to incur debt. And even if she has received a full-tuition scholarship, she's going to need to cover living expenses during her three-to-four year exit from the workforce.
archhopeful
Apr 5, 15 1:05 am
Thank you to everyone for the helpful responses to my questions!
natematt
Apr 5, 15 3:04 am
So a) have you made up your mind? b) did Yale give you some good $$$
sungwoozle
Apr 5, 15 10:26 am
Studio culture would def vary, but considering that they are both ivy schools, I bet people are generally more competitive with each other. But I think it depends more so by class. One class may be more competitive than the other. But at the end of the day, I think Yalies tend to stick together and look out for each other.
I think Yale has a great social scene. Lecture receptions and friday happy hours (six on seven) are great times to get to know your critics, classmates, and other random visiting architects. I think the smaller size def helps and you do get to meet/know everyone at some point. Professors won't come to you and babysit you. You'd have to actively seek them out for advice or guidance, and they are willing to help. Most of the faculty commute from NYC, but you should be able to reach them during thursday lecture receptions.
Housing is pretty expensive (700~1000) in my opinon for what New Haven is, but I went to washu for undergrad where living was really cheap. Most people get housing within walking distance from school, or they get bikes. Walking around late at night isn't too fun, but there's also a shuttle service offered by the school to take you home after a late night in studio. New Haven is incomparable to Cambridge in terms of geography, but both Boston and NYC is pretty accessible by train from New Haven. You'd be pretty busy in your first year anyway.
There are a lot of things you can try out at Yale, and you should really try to take advantage of it and try new things. Email me if you have more questions about Yale.
archhopeful
Apr 5, 15 12:16 pm
@natematt I am visiting both programs this week and am still waiting to hear from Yale about matching the Harvard $ offer, but both schools have been very generous!
archhopeful
Apr 5, 15 12:17 pm
@sungwoozle thank you for the insight! I will definitely email you if I have any other questions.
null pointer
Apr 5, 15 3:10 pm
Worth noting that I've seen GSD people get 10k over market in some New York firms, straight out of graduate school.
"Go cheapest" may apply to a lot of schools, but places like Harvard and Yale complicate the math behind choosing where to go.
Yale grads are rare in NYC, so I can't tell you much re: whether they go for a premium like GSD grads.
Alternative
Apr 5, 15 3:24 pm
A 10k premium will not cover the costs of an additional year out of the workforce. She'll have the degree from Yale more quickly. And there is a large Yale network in New York.
natematt
Apr 5, 15 3:27 pm
^That difference in pay is more likely a result of individual talent then name brand schools. These schools both have some of the best students coming out of them, largely because they have some of the best going in. If these students go elsewhere they will probably end up similarly talented and just as well paid.
Alternative
Apr 5, 15 4:01 pm
It's important to keep in mind natematt's insights about top-coming-in/top-coming-out, especially if you are arriving at either school without an architecture background.
null pointer
Apr 5, 15 4:02 pm
I don't know about that, natematt. I've been in the room when the GSD premium gets brought up, explicitly. Never saw anyone coming out of CUNY, NJIT or Pratt being paid as much when they were starting out.
Alternative, that 10k accrues - strong starting salaries are a huger determinant of future pay, there are multiple studies about that. Stop being so simple-minded.
Alternative
Apr 5, 15 4:06 pm
not simple-minded, just realistic. a 10k premium tacked onto a 50k-60k entry level salary (i'm being generous) isn't going to have a measurable impact on lifelong earnings within the same industry.
i didn't bring make the point in the first instance, but the talent coming into cuny, njit, and pratt isn't going to hold a candle to the talent coming into yale or gsd. that's what nate was getting at.
Apr 5, 15 8:03 pm
null pointer,
A higher entry level pay is not an true determinant of future pay because it doesn't mean you will top out at a higher pay. It can be that you top out at a lower peak salary. Pay structure is determined individually by each firm/employer.
Careful with that notion. Just to point out a caveat to be keep in mind.
null pointer
Apr 5, 15 9:02 pm
Even if you top at the average, which is likely, with it, you know, being the average - starting above it means your gross earnings will likely be higher (backed by you know, the notion of individual coin flips and the 50/50 chance thing, etc, etc).
Apr 6, 15 2:15 am
That's not a guarantee either because you may take longer to move up in pay. It may take you longer to reach peak pay. You could be stuck at your entry level pay for 20-30 years without increase in pay. So, you don't know. It maybe slim that things would be that bad but sh-t happens.
YLMS
Apr 6, 15 3:16 am
Richard, nothing in life is guaranteed. According to your logic, one should not even get a higher education because sh-t might happen to those who do, and there are plenty of those who don't end up get paid more.
Apr 6, 15 3:45 am
LOL...
Sometimes college is a liability. In the high-tech field, you are often outdated by the time you enroll and many times even more so by the time you graduate.
There, what you learned is already obsolete.
In this field, it might not be that bad. However, my point was not to lead people on a damn primrose path with rose lenses. 90% of those currently applying, attending, etc. should be choosing other careers because architecture is quite a sh-tty paying profession and all these people flooding the profession is the reason why pay sucks so bad. It won't get much better when you have an over abundant supply of _________ working for peanuts.
Only reason a degree is required for this profession is licensing laws mandates it.
Dima Srouji
Apr 7, 15 10:08 pm
My Yale experience in terms of atmosphere and energy:
We drink a lot. There are receptions every Thursdays and Mondays after lectures...which means martinis and wine and mingling with students and professors. Everyone is extremely approachable and you get to know faculty very quickly at these events, sober and not. There's also a 6 on 7 tradition where the first years host an event on the 7th floor roof with beer and chips and salsa and oreos. There's a theme every once in a while.. live bands etc.
We play badminton in the pit. We have a tournament running right now and it creates an amazing energy in the building. It's great stress relief! People take a break every once in a while in the evenings to watch the games. The final is always a big deal with everyone watching around the fourth and fifth floor looking down onto the pit. (where we have our crits and reviews)
New Haven totally exceeded my expectations. Architectuer students all live pretty close to each other in a nice area close to school. There are A LOT of really nice restaurants and bars near by.
We have a great connection to the Yale University Art Gallery and the British Art Center. We go there pretty often, it's across the street.
Our facilities are insane. We have like 20 3d printers (the biggets makerbot farm in the country) and 8 laser cutters..and a really great shop.
Studios you can look up online but the school is well known for its pluralist identity so you have people like Bijoy Jain (phenomenological) and Greg Lynn, Zaha, Pierre Vittorio Aureli, Leon Krier...(not the best examples) all teaching at the same time.
I'm a pretty happy camper.
archhopeful
Apr 7, 15 10:11 pm
@disro That's all really great, thank you! What's the area where a lot of the architecture students live?
Also, do you happen to know if many students hold any part time jobs (on or off campus) or if there is an opportunity for additional financial assistance beyond the need based aid offered?
Dima Srouji
Apr 8, 15 12:52 am
Anywhere along chapel street is great. And then the area between York street and Howe street is where everyone is. I would start looking for apartments asap. The good ones go fast. Check out elmcampus it's Yale owned stuff ..cheaper rent than other normal landlords.
In terms of part time stuff. There are a lot of TA and TF positions within the university that pay pretty well. TFs get paid more. Other than that people don't have much time for anything else You could work at the art galleries maybe. Any additional financial aid wouldn't come from the school.
archhopeful
Apr 10, 15 8:58 pm
Any new advice? After the open houses I'm more confused than ever!
WanderLust
Apr 11, 15 1:22 am
Another happy camper at Yale here.
I love that it's a small program - everyone in the building's on a first-name basis with each others (even the faculty), everyone looks out for each other, the environment is stimulating, the energy great, the facilities top-notch and the parties legendary. Tons of free trips and travel opportunities if that's your thing. Very pluralistic obviously - it's frankly quite surreal to watch Lynn and Diaz-Alonso take a crit just a few feet away from Aureli. I see a tremendous growth in my own abilities, opportunities, and confidence since coming here, and I get the sense that Yale really does take good care of you.
That being said, in my opinion you're either the GSD type or the Yale type. I think very few people would 'belong' in both places. They are two entirely different schools - the buzz and size of the Harvard trays is very different from Yale's pits. And financial considerations aside, that should be pretty clear at this point! Shoot me a message if you need more.
Carrera
Apr 11, 15 10:07 am
I think some clues may be contained here in a Yale News article....it's about hand drafting (one of my favorite subjects), but gives some interesting insight into the program including this chart:
@Wanderlust Thank you! The GSD has a way of making you feel like it would be a mistake not to choose them, maybe that's where the indecision comes from. Do you have classmates who happily chose Yale instead of the GSD?
@Carrera That is a really interesting and thorough article. I wonder what has changed in the last three years since it was written - at the open house I was really impressed by the breadth of the fabrication labs and while I definitely noticed more computer modeling at the GSD (really from the semester you arrive there), I wonder how much current Yale students are being exposed to those programs now. It seemed like at Yale there is always someone to teach you a specific program if you want to make use of it/gain proficiency for employment?
WanderLust
Apr 11, 15 12:11 pm
I would say that in the post-professional class of 17, there are about 5-6 people who chose Yale over the GSD. I'm not sure what the numbers for M.Arch. I look like.
archhopeful
Apr 11, 15 9:08 pm
Another question: At the GSD I heard a lot about graduates going into architecture allied fields (designers for Prada, environmental consulting, Disney Imagineering, etc.). Do you think there is a specific reason for that? Is this also true for Yale graduates?
zooz
Apr 12, 15 10:52 am
@sungwoozle and @disro, I had a question and I'm guessing you both went to YSOA from the posts you've written above ( which made me want yale even more). Did you guys need to take a calculus prerequisite? If yes, how did you guys fulfill it or where did you take it? I'm an international student and I don't have community colleges around where I live to solve that issue.
archhopeful
Apr 13, 15 11:32 am
bump
yuqiaog
Apr 13, 15 3:17 pm
^ went to both open houses; facing the same dilemma.
TDDT
Apr 13, 15 5:30 pm
Can anyone at Yale shed any light on teaching fellowships and assistantships? Are they difficult to get? Only second and third year? How much can they offset expenses? Thanks!
A.R.Ch
Apr 13, 15 8:16 pm
@TDDT
There are somewhere in the neighborhood of 60-70 TA or TF positions available each semester. Considering that there are approximately 250 graduate students in YSOA, the odds of getting a position are decent but it's still a competitive process. The application for these positions occurs at the end of the preceding semester, so the Fall 2015 positions are already being distributed (which effectively eliminates incoming first year students from applying). That being said, there are usually a few open slots that are advertised during the first couple weeks of each semester. There are also opportunities to teach in the History of Art Department, though there is no formalized process to apply for these positions.
In regards to compensation, the average semester stipend for YSOA positions is around $2,000 for TAs and $3,500 for TFs. This varies based on the workload for each class and whether it's listed as an undergraduate or graduate course. Because of the university's funding structure, undergraduate courses listed in other departments (such as the History of Art) have much higher compensation rates. Some positions in these other departments may pay as much as $9,000 per semester, but there is usually a commensurate increase in workload and responsibility.
Can anyone familiar with either of these programs share their experiences? I am particularly looking at the M.Arch.I, but any answers are helpful!
What is the studio culture/environment in general? Competitive vs. cooperative? Unhealthy vs. healthy?
How much of an opportunity is there for mentorship from professors?
What is the general attitude of professors towards students? Do they only come around for studio/class time? Do they seek to get to know students by being in the studio beyond required hours or attending lectures/other events?
Did the program assist you in looking for employment, either through some sort of job fair or other avenue?
What were living arrangements like? Do students generally live very close to the school? How much would you say the average student spends on living expenses per month?
Really, any feedback on either program is extremely helpful and appreciated!!
For what it's worth, Yale is a smaller program, and it's six rather than seven semesters. Those factors cut in favor of Yale. New Haven is also a bit cheaper than Cambridge. Have you visited the respective schools? I would suggest that you pull back the shiny veneer of the admitted students days, and actually try to get a sense of whether students are happy by talking to students who are in studio and not speakers at some school-organized panel. You want don't want to get all of your information from the institutional cheerleaders.
Also, calculate total cost of each program. Yale will end up being cheaper by virtue of the fact that it's shorter. Try to leverage financial aid packages against the other institutions (if GSD gave you more money, use that to convince Yale to give you more, as well).
Good luck. And don't go into six-figure debt for either.
From what I've read, Archhopeful was also offered full tuition from WUSTL. I know all you advocates of "cheapest is the best" would suggest her to go to WUSTL, but she's already smart enough to figure out that the cheapest choice is not the best choice in many cases.
I'd be interested in hearing answers to her original questions. Cost obviously isn't a driving factor for her.
Actually, if that's the case, I would urge her to strongly consider Wash. U.
Smart person like her knows it's worth the $$$ to go to GSD or Yale.
^^ (person who has attended neither GSD nor Yale)
Smart people don't try to convince themselves (and others) that $100k plus degrees are worth the debt.
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
Can you stop with the cheapest option crap? You have a dedicated thread already and everyone already knows the basic rule: don't pay way too much for school. It's not a novel idea only you stumbled upon and nothing you need to bring up every damn time.
I did receive full tuition at WashU, but the need based aid from GSD/Yale comes pretty close. I would appreciate any responses to the original questions!
In fact, not everyone knows not to pay way too much for school, so the message bears repeating.
(Also no one here said anything about $100,000+ in debt...but thanks for looking out!)
With respect to professors-- this is going to be the same at GSD and Yale. Some are going to be more accessible than others depending on the studio. Most students are going to live a short walk or bike ride away from campus. Your ability to get a job will have to do with hustle. Certain offices in New York are very Yale-centric, or very GSD-centric. That demands more familiarity with particular offices than with the schools, themselves. GSD has a (questionably helpful) job fair.
Like arch school admissions, your portfolio for employment will matter more than your pedigree.
I sincerely hope that helps.
All comments concerning the financial aspect of this are a bit out of context. If you read the post from which her full tuition at WUSTL was pulled you'd realize she also got a big chunk of money from Harvard, so it's not like she's paying it all. She didn't have a financial figure for Yale, so sure, if it was significantly more expensive then it could be a big factor, but I think for the sake of her questions given her previous post it's worth just shutting it about cost and talking about the actual qualities of the school that she is asking about.
Anyone else care to comment on that?
More GSD vs. Yale platitudes that will have no effect on professional prospects (keep in mind she's attending a professional school, but that seems to be out of everyone's mind on this forum):
(1) Yale has more of an emphasis on drawing and building the first year;
(2) Yale has Eisenman, for better or for worse. GSD has Mohsen (whose "mission" seems unclear to me - internationalism? I guess);
(3) GSD has more laser cutters and robots (but more students, so it evens out around finals season);
(4) GSD M.Arch I will mix together students with non-arch backgrounds with those who have unaccredited arch. degrees. Yale places non-arch kids in a required summer prep course. The GSD method of throwing everyone into the shuffle does a disservice to non-arch students during the first year.
(5) The GSD degree WILL take you four years. Everyone splits. That's one more year out of the workforce.
(6) GSD is more cutthroat. Both are somewhat bitchy (these are effete, elite architecture schools after all).
(7) Mental health seems to be a problem at the GSD.
(8) You will see many of the same visiting profs at theboth schools. Some of the members at the same firms will teach at either school (see, e.g., MOS).
More questions?
To add to point (2), Preston Scott Cohen's vision inheres the GSD architecture program.
You'll also have MAUD and landscape people which sort of cross-pollinate at the GSD, and you won't have quite that interdisciplinary environment at Yale.
Only thing I'm going to say about the GSD is that you really need to graduate with some humility. Boston area firms are very wary of GSD grads for this reason. If you choose to stay in the city and work, you will very likely end up working under someone who went to the BAC or Wentworth and they will know a whole lot more than you about the business and practice of architecture. If you are capable and willing to learn from these people in the same way you learn from your profs and peers in school you will do very well in this profession.
gsd seems to provide a bigger platform? if you want a cross-discipline environment with landscape, planning, etc. and of course it's more competitive(also more bitchy as mentioned before), which might be good for your future practice. if i were you and both schools provide similar funding opportunites, i guess Gsd
Yo, Scott Cohen hasn't been the chair of GSD's architecture program for over a year.
@Alternative
What is your background and where did you go to school? You seem to be very anti-Ivy and anti-taking out loans of any kind. What are the personal experiences that got you there?
You can't just expect us to take your advice blindly without understanding the context.
How is anything that I wrote anti-Ivy? All I've told her is not to incur debt. And even if she has received a full-tuition scholarship, she's going to need to cover living expenses during her three-to-four year exit from the workforce.
Thank you to everyone for the helpful responses to my questions!
So a) have you made up your mind? b) did Yale give you some good $$$
Studio culture would def vary, but considering that they are both ivy schools, I bet people are generally more competitive with each other. But I think it depends more so by class. One class may be more competitive than the other. But at the end of the day, I think Yalies tend to stick together and look out for each other.
I think Yale has a great social scene. Lecture receptions and friday happy hours (six on seven) are great times to get to know your critics, classmates, and other random visiting architects. I think the smaller size def helps and you do get to meet/know everyone at some point. Professors won't come to you and babysit you. You'd have to actively seek them out for advice or guidance, and they are willing to help. Most of the faculty commute from NYC, but you should be able to reach them during thursday lecture receptions.
Housing is pretty expensive (700~1000) in my opinon for what New Haven is, but I went to washu for undergrad where living was really cheap. Most people get housing within walking distance from school, or they get bikes. Walking around late at night isn't too fun, but there's also a shuttle service offered by the school to take you home after a late night in studio. New Haven is incomparable to Cambridge in terms of geography, but both Boston and NYC is pretty accessible by train from New Haven. You'd be pretty busy in your first year anyway.
There are a lot of things you can try out at Yale, and you should really try to take advantage of it and try new things. Email me if you have more questions about Yale.
@natematt I am visiting both programs this week and am still waiting to hear from Yale about matching the Harvard $ offer, but both schools have been very generous!
@sungwoozle thank you for the insight! I will definitely email you if I have any other questions.
Worth noting that I've seen GSD people get 10k over market in some New York firms, straight out of graduate school.
"Go cheapest" may apply to a lot of schools, but places like Harvard and Yale complicate the math behind choosing where to go.
Yale grads are rare in NYC, so I can't tell you much re: whether they go for a premium like GSD grads.
A 10k premium will not cover the costs of an additional year out of the workforce. She'll have the degree from Yale more quickly. And there is a large Yale network in New York.
^That difference in pay is more likely a result of individual talent then name brand schools. These schools both have some of the best students coming out of them, largely because they have some of the best going in. If these students go elsewhere they will probably end up similarly talented and just as well paid.
It's important to keep in mind natematt's insights about top-coming-in/top-coming-out, especially if you are arriving at either school without an architecture background.
I don't know about that, natematt. I've been in the room when the GSD premium gets brought up, explicitly. Never saw anyone coming out of CUNY, NJIT or Pratt being paid as much when they were starting out.
Alternative, that 10k accrues - strong starting salaries are a huger determinant of future pay, there are multiple studies about that. Stop being so simple-minded.
not simple-minded, just realistic. a 10k premium tacked onto a 50k-60k entry level salary (i'm being generous) isn't going to have a measurable impact on lifelong earnings within the same industry.
i didn't bring make the point in the first instance, but the talent coming into cuny, njit, and pratt isn't going to hold a candle to the talent coming into yale or gsd. that's what nate was getting at.
null pointer,
A higher entry level pay is not an true determinant of future pay because it doesn't mean you will top out at a higher pay. It can be that you top out at a lower peak salary. Pay structure is determined individually by each firm/employer.
Careful with that notion. Just to point out a caveat to be keep in mind.
Even if you top at the average, which is likely, with it, you know, being the average - starting above it means your gross earnings will likely be higher (backed by you know, the notion of individual coin flips and the 50/50 chance thing, etc, etc).
That's not a guarantee either because you may take longer to move up in pay. It may take you longer to reach peak pay. You could be stuck at your entry level pay for 20-30 years without increase in pay. So, you don't know. It maybe slim that things would be that bad but sh-t happens.
Richard, nothing in life is guaranteed. According to your logic, one should not even get a higher education because sh-t might happen to those who do, and there are plenty of those who don't end up get paid more.
LOL...
Sometimes college is a liability. In the high-tech field, you are often outdated by the time you enroll and many times even more so by the time you graduate.
There, what you learned is already obsolete.
In this field, it might not be that bad. However, my point was not to lead people on a damn primrose path with rose lenses. 90% of those currently applying, attending, etc. should be choosing other careers because architecture is quite a sh-tty paying profession and all these people flooding the profession is the reason why pay sucks so bad. It won't get much better when you have an over abundant supply of _________ working for peanuts.
Only reason a degree is required for this profession is licensing laws mandates it.
My Yale experience in terms of atmosphere and energy:
We drink a lot. There are receptions every Thursdays and Mondays after lectures...which means martinis and wine and mingling with students and professors. Everyone is extremely approachable and you get to know faculty very quickly at these events, sober and not. There's also a 6 on 7 tradition where the first years host an event on the 7th floor roof with beer and chips and salsa and oreos. There's a theme every once in a while.. live bands etc.
We play badminton in the pit. We have a tournament running right now and it creates an amazing energy in the building. It's great stress relief! People take a break every once in a while in the evenings to watch the games. The final is always a big deal with everyone watching around the fourth and fifth floor looking down onto the pit. (where we have our crits and reviews)
New Haven totally exceeded my expectations. Architectuer students all live pretty close to each other in a nice area close to school. There are A LOT of really nice restaurants and bars near by.
We have a great connection to the Yale University Art Gallery and the British Art Center. We go there pretty often, it's across the street.
Our facilities are insane. We have like 20 3d printers (the biggets makerbot farm in the country) and 8 laser cutters..and a really great shop.
Studios you can look up online but the school is well known for its pluralist identity so you have people like Bijoy Jain (phenomenological) and Greg Lynn, Zaha, Pierre Vittorio Aureli, Leon Krier...(not the best examples) all teaching at the same time.
I'm a pretty happy camper.
@disro That's all really great, thank you! What's the area where a lot of the architecture students live?
Also, do you happen to know if many students hold any part time jobs (on or off campus) or if there is an opportunity for additional financial assistance beyond the need based aid offered?
Anywhere along chapel street is great. And then the area between York street and Howe street is where everyone is. I would start looking for apartments asap. The good ones go fast. Check out elmcampus it's Yale owned stuff ..cheaper rent than other normal landlords.
In terms of part time stuff. There are a lot of TA and TF positions within the university that pay pretty well. TFs get paid more. Other than that people don't have much time for anything else You could work at the art galleries maybe. Any additional financial aid wouldn't come from the school.
Any new advice? After the open houses I'm more confused than ever!
Another happy camper at Yale here.
I love that it's a small program - everyone in the building's on a first-name basis with each others (even the faculty), everyone looks out for each other, the environment is stimulating, the energy great, the facilities top-notch and the parties legendary. Tons of free trips and travel opportunities if that's your thing. Very pluralistic obviously - it's frankly quite surreal to watch Lynn and Diaz-Alonso take a crit just a few feet away from Aureli. I see a tremendous growth in my own abilities, opportunities, and confidence since coming here, and I get the sense that Yale really does take good care of you.
That being said, in my opinion you're either the GSD type or the Yale type. I think very few people would 'belong' in both places. They are two entirely different schools - the buzz and size of the Harvard trays is very different from Yale's pits. And financial considerations aside, that should be pretty clear at this point! Shoot me a message if you need more.
I think some clues may be contained here in a Yale News article....it's about hand drafting (one of my favorite subjects), but gives some interesting insight into the program including this chart:
http://yaledailynews.com/blog/2012/04/06/up-close-at-school-of-architecture-role-of-drawing-in-doubt/
@Wanderlust Thank you! The GSD has a way of making you feel like it would be a mistake not to choose them, maybe that's where the indecision comes from. Do you have classmates who happily chose Yale instead of the GSD?
@Carrera That is a really interesting and thorough article. I wonder what has changed in the last three years since it was written - at the open house I was really impressed by the breadth of the fabrication labs and while I definitely noticed more computer modeling at the GSD (really from the semester you arrive there), I wonder how much current Yale students are being exposed to those programs now. It seemed like at Yale there is always someone to teach you a specific program if you want to make use of it/gain proficiency for employment?
I would say that in the post-professional class of 17, there are about 5-6 people who chose Yale over the GSD. I'm not sure what the numbers for M.Arch. I look like.
Another question: At the GSD I heard a lot about graduates going into architecture allied fields (designers for Prada, environmental consulting, Disney Imagineering, etc.). Do you think there is a specific reason for that? Is this also true for Yale graduates?
@sungwoozle and @disro, I had a question and I'm guessing you both went to YSOA from the posts you've written above ( which made me want yale even more). Did you guys need to take a calculus prerequisite? If yes, how did you guys fulfill it or where did you take it? I'm an international student and I don't have community colleges around where I live to solve that issue.
bump
^ went to both open houses; facing the same dilemma.
Can anyone at Yale shed any light on teaching fellowships and assistantships? Are they difficult to get? Only second and third year? How much can they offset expenses? Thanks!
@TDDT
There are somewhere in the neighborhood of 60-70 TA or TF positions available each semester. Considering that there are approximately 250 graduate students in YSOA, the odds of getting a position are decent but it's still a competitive process. The application for these positions occurs at the end of the preceding semester, so the Fall 2015 positions are already being distributed (which effectively eliminates incoming first year students from applying). That being said, there are usually a few open slots that are advertised during the first couple weeks of each semester. There are also opportunities to teach in the History of Art Department, though there is no formalized process to apply for these positions.
In regards to compensation, the average semester stipend for YSOA positions is around $2,000 for TAs and $3,500 for TFs. This varies based on the workload for each class and whether it's listed as an undergraduate or graduate course. Because of the university's funding structure, undergraduate courses listed in other departments (such as the History of Art) have much higher compensation rates. Some positions in these other departments may pay as much as $9,000 per semester, but there is usually a commensurate increase in workload and responsibility.