Inspired by this NYT piece from late 2014 curious about a fews things.
Is the role/job of an expediter unique to NYC? It certainly sounds like a fairly formalized/licensed "institution" in NYC. Can't say i have heard of folks doing this locally.
Does it have to do with size of jurisdiction and number of folks/permits required/being processed? As the article talks about, the pure math/number of the lines?
Have any/many Archinectors used such services? Performed such services? Just cause you can file your own plans do you?
Do big firms just use interns/juniors?
awaiting_deletion
Jan 7, 15 10:15 pm
It's a profession in nyc....but the nyc Dob HUB, all shit via Internet is killing the gig, not to mention the DOB cycles thru people and positions so you can never get to 'know' anyone........... Filing a job in NYC is about 10 times the effort outside of NYC especially if you file it for review. PROFESSIONAL certification is the easy way out, but some of the major boroughs are auditing all that anyway. You hire them to avoid the lines and Stay on top of the constant changes that are rarely announced officially.......my recent favorite is requiring FEMA maps on apt conversions say on the 5th floor. It's like the commissioner says - hey let's see if the applicants can provide this. Dear examiners please object to the cost estimate, a few bull shit items we lost on our end in archives - like the c of o, and hit them with FEMA maps..... that's when you call the expediter because you are about to go ape shit. Even with the HUB it ain't worth the head ache.
null pointer
Jan 8, 15 10:25 am
I just like the total bullshit about what is and isn't floor area.
I'd go into more detail, but I actually fear retaliation from examiners at the DOB.
proto
Jan 8, 15 12:45 pm
when i worked in nyc, we used expeditors all the time
now that i don't, i never do
(i assumed it was a uniquely nyc thing, but what do i know?)
mightyaa
Jan 8, 15 1:48 pm
Here in Denver we have some that use that term. Usually the larger firms have someone in-house and the developers use them a lot. It's more a 'networked' thing where they know who to talk to and have 'friends' inside the review agencies that can speed the stuff through the system. Many are ex-employee's of the building department so they know the staff and how the system works. They also know who to avoid and what to say to get certain requirements waived. Basically, they handle all the submission packages for the firms and can get preferential treatment by the various jurisdictions.
Appleseed
Jan 8, 15 3:25 pm
^ sim, but in LA. We were totally stonewalled for months regarding what-should-have-been a simple change of address issue (on a res. remodel) that ended up being bounced around by different bureaucracies for months. Client (lawyer) ended up suggesting we try an Expediter and the whole thing was solved in an afternoon (for $1,500).
Nam Henderson
Jan 8, 15 5:51 pm
thanks for sharing all. so it sounds like most big cities have some version of? is there just no need for them in smaller places?
also, as described by some, almost sounds like a institutionalized/legal form of greasing the palm?
awaiting_deletion
Jan 8, 15 6:22 pm
ha nullpointer, i agree
I'll use my real name when debating nonsense with whack jobs on this site, but not when I talk about the NYC DOB - anonymous!
mightyaa
Jan 8, 15 6:45 pm
In smaller locations, there's not enough to call yourself that. But you bet that the local architect or engineer knows the right people: City Council, Mayor, and all the major officials. So they will be able to speed things through a lot quicker than an outsider... using the local firm is a huge benefit to cut through the bull. I've gotten those calls too from national firms looking for a local partner who theoretically has the inside track.
mightyaa
Jan 8, 15 6:48 pm
And it's not really shady like a bribe. Think of it more like relationships. Are you more apt to help out someone you know personally or a stranger looking for some extra help?
Appleseed
Jan 8, 15 8:20 pm
stranger looking for some extra help
I dunno, felt more like a bribe the one time we went that route. If the AHJ actually took responsibility for making decisions instead of continually passing the buck around or trying to dump it on a different jurisdiction it wouldn't have been an issue in the first place. That said, it's a larger critique I have of bureaucrats in general (espc. in AEC/govt. relationships) and this was the most extreme case I've seen in my short career.
Appleseed
Jan 8, 15 8:25 pm
^ should have noted, my point to the italics was that it's not (or shouldn't be) about 'knowing someone' or whatever. We're all professionals in these situations - take the responsibility, make the decision, do your job! Rather than just trying to get out of it...
gruen
Jan 9, 15 9:18 am
They existed in Seattle - it could speed the process slightly, but it wasn't necessary. REALLY unnecessary in most small towns. I don't think there was much money in it either in Seattle.
mightyaa
Jan 9, 15 11:41 am
I watched one once last summer. I had to help my GC do a walkthrough permit. The person before us at the counter obviously knew all the reviewers as well as their families (doing the small talk). They did a walk-through on what looked like a 300 sheet set of drawings and took an hour instead of the supposed allotted 20 minutes maximum posted on the wall.
That expediter should have been forced to do a normal submittal (30 day turn-around) instead of a walk-through (same day permit).... but they knew the right people and those people wouldn't tell them their time was up or that the project was too large for a walk-through permit. I also found it humorous because I've used a similar 'trick'; the expediter was a attractive younger woman; everyone behind the counter was the usual male, and contractor sorts. Makes it harder for them to turn her away because she also showed interest in their personal lives too (that small talk stuff). Really greased the wheels for that developer and did what should not have been done.
All of the above aside, can anyone recommend a good NYC expediter. I'm looking for a not-too-big outfit that is good with details. Thanks for any help.
Inspired by this NYT piece from late 2014 curious about a fews things.
Is the role/job of an expediter unique to NYC? It certainly sounds like a fairly formalized/licensed "institution" in NYC. Can't say i have heard of folks doing this locally.
Does it have to do with size of jurisdiction and number of folks/permits required/being processed? As the article talks about, the pure math/number of the lines?
Have any/many Archinectors used such services? Performed such services? Just cause you can file your own plans do you?
Do big firms just use interns/juniors?
It's a profession in nyc....but the nyc Dob HUB, all shit via Internet is killing the gig, not to mention the DOB cycles thru people and positions so you can never get to 'know' anyone........... Filing a job in NYC is about 10 times the effort outside of NYC especially if you file it for review. PROFESSIONAL certification is the easy way out, but some of the major boroughs are auditing all that anyway. You hire them to avoid the lines and Stay on top of the constant changes that are rarely announced officially.......my recent favorite is requiring FEMA maps on apt conversions say on the 5th floor. It's like the commissioner says - hey let's see if the applicants can provide this. Dear examiners please object to the cost estimate, a few bull shit items we lost on our end in archives - like the c of o, and hit them with FEMA maps..... that's when you call the expediter because you are about to go ape shit. Even with the HUB it ain't worth the head ache.
I just like the total bullshit about what is and isn't floor area.
I'd go into more detail, but I actually fear retaliation from examiners at the DOB.
when i worked in nyc, we used expeditors all the time
now that i don't, i never do
(i assumed it was a uniquely nyc thing, but what do i know?)
Here in Denver we have some that use that term. Usually the larger firms have someone in-house and the developers use them a lot. It's more a 'networked' thing where they know who to talk to and have 'friends' inside the review agencies that can speed the stuff through the system. Many are ex-employee's of the building department so they know the staff and how the system works. They also know who to avoid and what to say to get certain requirements waived. Basically, they handle all the submission packages for the firms and can get preferential treatment by the various jurisdictions.
^ sim, but in LA. We were totally stonewalled for months regarding what-should-have-been a simple change of address issue (on a res. remodel) that ended up being bounced around by different bureaucracies for months. Client (lawyer) ended up suggesting we try an Expediter and the whole thing was solved in an afternoon (for $1,500).
thanks for sharing all. so it sounds like most big cities have some version of? is there just no need for them in smaller places?
also, as described by some, almost sounds like a institutionalized/legal form of greasing the palm?
ha nullpointer, i agree
I'll use my real name when debating nonsense with whack jobs on this site, but not when I talk about the NYC DOB - anonymous!
In smaller locations, there's not enough to call yourself that. But you bet that the local architect or engineer knows the right people: City Council, Mayor, and all the major officials. So they will be able to speed things through a lot quicker than an outsider... using the local firm is a huge benefit to cut through the bull. I've gotten those calls too from national firms looking for a local partner who theoretically has the inside track.
And it's not really shady like a bribe. Think of it more like relationships. Are you more apt to help out someone you know personally or a stranger looking for some extra help?
stranger looking for some extra help
I dunno, felt more like a bribe the one time we went that route. If the AHJ actually took responsibility for making decisions instead of continually passing the buck around or trying to dump it on a different jurisdiction it wouldn't have been an issue in the first place. That said, it's a larger critique I have of bureaucrats in general (espc. in AEC/govt. relationships) and this was the most extreme case I've seen in my short career.
^ should have noted, my point to the italics was that it's not (or shouldn't be) about 'knowing someone' or whatever. We're all professionals in these situations - take the responsibility, make the decision, do your job! Rather than just trying to get out of it...
They existed in Seattle - it could speed the process slightly, but it wasn't necessary. REALLY unnecessary in most small towns. I don't think there was much money in it either in Seattle.
I watched one once last summer. I had to help my GC do a walkthrough permit. The person before us at the counter obviously knew all the reviewers as well as their families (doing the small talk). They did a walk-through on what looked like a 300 sheet set of drawings and took an hour instead of the supposed allotted 20 minutes maximum posted on the wall.
That expediter should have been forced to do a normal submittal (30 day turn-around) instead of a walk-through (same day permit).... but they knew the right people and those people wouldn't tell them their time was up or that the project was too large for a walk-through permit. I also found it humorous because I've used a similar 'trick'; the expediter was a attractive younger woman; everyone behind the counter was the usual male, and contractor sorts. Makes it harder for them to turn her away because she also showed interest in their personal lives too (that small talk stuff). Really greased the wheels for that developer and did what should not have been done.
This just in from the NY times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/10/nyregion/dozens-expected-to-be-charged-in-construction-permit-plot.html?_r=0
Rather interesting
All of the above aside, can anyone recommend a good NYC expediter. I'm looking for a not-too-big outfit that is good with details. Thanks for any help.
J