As stated above I am not the greatest at math nor drawing for that matter. But I believe I have some "design sense" and I like to think I am good at photography, furniture design, etc. I have also thought about taking some drawing classes, but how much natural ability does one need?
Could I make it through Architecture school and be successful? Or would I be a glutton for punishment? I am considering leaving my present profession to go back to school. Any thoughts? Thanks
Tectonic
Nov 23, 04 7:41 pm
Yes.
Tectonic
Nov 23, 04 7:42 pm
There's a vast oceanic difference between architectural practice and an architectural education. Someone once tried to tell me that and I did not understand.........but hey 100k later I do.
Ms Beary
Nov 23, 04 7:43 pm
Give yourself the chance.
RqTecT
Nov 23, 04 8:03 pm
ANYONE CAN BECOME ANYTHING THEY WANT TO BE.
TO BE AN ARCHITECT ALL IT TAKES IS TIME.
THE WORST MATH STUDENT, WAS ONE OF THE BEST DESIGNERS I HAVE EVER MET TO THIS DAY.
tango
Nov 23, 04 8:21 pm
Thanks for the words of encouragement! It's just a big step giving up a good secure income to go back to school......but I wouldn't be here if I didn't need the change.....
Kurt Neiswender
Nov 23, 04 8:26 pm
you can do anything want ! if you practice you will get better it is all about the desire. do you have the inner desire to try , and try again. even if you get your ass handed to you in a review.
peace
k
abracadabra
Nov 23, 04 9:08 pm
if you ask yourself why do you want be an architect and can come up with some possible everlasting answers and can take financial risk, go for it. it is a long process and it takes dedication, and staying focused. but it will turn streets to movies and buildings to drawings and variations of as such possibilities.
most math in architecture,+,-,/,x and you will learn how and when to apply them. and you will figure out a graphic way to tell your designs, at least with basic alphabeth of plans, elevations and sections.
chances are, it is not going to be like what you think it was. you'll get fucked but it will be the best fuck you'll ever have.
pencrush
Nov 24, 04 2:29 am
You don't need to know math. That's probably the biggest misconception about architecture. If you can make it to college, you can do the math required of a typical architecture career.
If you are interested in design, you'll really like architecture school, and then you'll hate the working world. Sorry, that's how it goes.
If you think you're ok at drawing, you can always get better. It basically depends on your commitment and desire. Most of the people who say they can't draw, don't enjoy doing it and don't practice, and they don't get any better. If you enjoy it at all, with some practice you can become perfectly competent. Some of the most famous architects can't really draw for shit.
stephanie
Nov 24, 04 4:44 am
when i went into architecture school i knew that i was weak in math and drawing skills, but as stated above, you learn what you need to know mathematically, and honestly i really havent encountered much more than simple +/-/X...computers and engineers do much of that work. in fact i swapped out calculus for a symbolic logic class in school, and got a lot more out of it.
however, i do think that drawing is important, but everyone can draw! ydude, you can draw, you just have to learn how to like doing it. and i think that once you are in school long enough you will. if you "design sense" then you should already have enough graphic skills to be able to pick up a utensil and communicate something.
in other words,
don't be one of those people that i meet who is all like
"you're an architect?! that is so cool! i always wanted to do that, but i suck at math..."
and in my little brain i'm all like
"dude, the most challenging math class i ever took was pre-calc in HIGH SCHOOL!"
BOTS
Nov 24, 04 6:59 am
I have a math(s), physics, design background and I have found the maths and the calculus extremely useful especially because I am able to tackle many m & E and structural problems at sketch design stage without too much input from specialist consultants. Of course consultants are there for the direct input / assistance and the details as the project advances, but being able to ‘touch base’ with these design elements at an early stage gives a considerable design advantage.
The most important skill in Architecture is visualisation and the ability to communicate that through drawn skills. If you can’t communicate your ideas to the Client, builder etc then you’ve got little hope of making it. It is true that Some of the most famous architects can't really draw for shit, but their quality of the design communication is high.
You can make it in Architecture with no natural talent. It’s just harder work and you need to be more dedicated.
Steven Ward
Nov 24, 04 7:00 am
Ditto Stephanie. I've taught studios and drawings classes and the biggest - HUGEST - hurdle is the statement 'I Can't Draw.' Pisses me off. Get rid of that sentence or you're doomed. Just start doing it.
Take a drawing class so you know what to look for and how to break down your bad habits that have convinced you that you can't do it.
OR, get the book 'Drawing from the Right Side of the Brain' or something similar.
OR, just start making time for drawing. Draw anything. Keep a sketchbook. Don't throw sketches away. Watch your progress. Draw what you see - not what you think you see.
[+ I was never good at math. If I could have used my structural engineers phone number on the ARE.....but I passed first time.]
Ms Beary
Nov 24, 04 9:19 am
Drawing is really seeing. You can learn that. Architecture school helps to learn.
It's been said, but I say it again. The hardest math I do is adding fractions and the most difficult of all adding feet and inches! Which is a real bugger sometimes. I was good at math but never went beyond college trig. I agree with what is posted above. Don't underestimate design skills. That is... knowing what something should look like, recognizing and correcting awkwardness, attention to detail. Stuff like that.
Mum
Nov 24, 04 9:28 am
Zero math required. I somehow slipped through architecture school with NO math classes. I think it's because I transferred in and my Math 101 from a previous school satisfied that requirement. I have never taken anything beyond high school algebra. The joke in my firm is that my license should be taken away because I need a calculator to add single digits.
If or when you have to take math, get a tutor to get through the class. You can get through structures by learning a few formulas. Cad calculates all your geometries and dimensions. Obviously, as BOTS states, a strong math background would be very useful, but not required.
Don't let the math stop you. Or the lack of drawing skills. The real question is how good are you at solving puzzles? That's what a building is. One big puzzle with many interlocking pieces.
vongkothts
Nov 24, 04 10:01 am
How about physics? Is it important in an architect's education or is that another misconception about architecture?
ether
Nov 24, 04 10:24 am
you are doomed. give up now.
we are all doomed. run for the hills.
Artful Dodger
Nov 24, 04 10:25 am
Only intro physics if your university requires it. The only math I had to do was for structures, and thats just trig and algebra.
gustav
Nov 24, 04 10:31 am
A previous employer could do calculus equations in his head in less than 5 seconds, serious. He was the worst designer/architect I have ever met. His string of dimensions always added, though (done in his head also).
I was required to take calculus, why, why, why... Who cares about what's under the curve. Whoever required that calculus class was "Behind" the power curve.
BOTS
Nov 24, 04 11:09 am
calculus is a must for M & E calculations on daylighting, rainwater, acoustics, ventilation, thermal calulations. That is a must for those without an m & E engineer or a computer.
Just another sting to my Longbow.
gustav
Nov 24, 04 11:17 am
I know NO architect that does those calculations. And in school I never used calulus for those calculations. That degree by mail must have really taken me!
Ms Beary
Nov 24, 04 11:28 am
Physics is properties of materials and forces. Physics in architecture is somewhat common sense. Buildings want to fall down. Wind wants to push them over. Sun and heat makes materials expand and cold makes them contract. Water always wants to penetrate. Books in a library weigh more than open computer space in same library. Physics in architecture are concepts such as hinge effects, non uniform loading, thermal expansion of material. An architect just has to know where to tell the engineer to crunch the numbers for.
db
Nov 24, 04 11:33 am
I think there's a bigger picture here with regard to calculus and physics for architects. It's not about being able to do the math, but about an analytical and abstract approach to the world. So while architects do not use math/science in their daily routines, there is a real value in integrating the -thinking- that comes from those disciplines into your design methodology.
That said, being bad at math shouldn't stop you from going to architecture school. However, you should also make the attempt to learn such things and make them part of your worldview as an architect.
gustav
Nov 24, 04 11:41 am
db:
is your design methodology so very similar to the methodology of math and physics?
taboho
Nov 24, 04 12:46 pm
Keep in mind that there's both an academic and professional difference between an architect and a builder. I agree with most of this thread that math skills are not of prime importance in architecture, and drawing skills can be developed. Instead of worrying whether you have the right skills to be something, try really understanding what an architect does first. Reality is sometimes shockingly frightening.
alphanumericcha
Nov 24, 04 1:51 pm
boo
norm
Nov 24, 04 2:11 pm
my $.02.
being able to think with both the right and left lobes of your brain simultaneously is the most important thing - not being able to do math specifically, or to draw specifically.
if you have the interest and ability to do m&e calculations - more power to you. i've been out of school for way too long to mention and i have never had to. that's what i pay consultants for. more important is being able to understand what the consultant is doing, and to be able to critically analyze that - not check their calcs.
business skills, being able to read and understand contracts, negotiating - these are all left brain skills that are at least as important as math.
have a happy thanksgiving...
db
Nov 24, 04 3:28 pm
gustav--
architecture (as a methodology) is problem solving and the elucidation of systems. it is also (at its best, in execution) poetic. same goes for math and science (physics, but also chemistry, astronomy, etc).
gustav
Nov 24, 04 4:13 pm
I disagree about the lucid. Great insights/breakthroughs are made in the blinding light that is pitch black. What problems do you have?
db
Nov 24, 04 4:44 pm
???
tango
Nov 24, 04 6:44 pm
Wow!!!! Lots of great responses. I was hoping to get a few but this is great.
Jordan Lloyd
Nov 25, 04 8:43 am
Ditto. Im rubbish at numbers and at drawing, but I did pretty well at degree level. Learn to increase your skill in communication and youll be fine.
stevencook
Jul 20, 16 11:14 am
"Many of the most successful designers, inventors and architects are people who are self taught" that's right, self taught people or the official term we use is Autodidacts can be very successful and influential... take Bill Gates for example, he's a college dropout yet he is the wealthiest man in the world with almost 80 billion dollars in his pocket. Now I'm not saying you will become a billionaire but this is a example I use to inspire people. You can still be successful without a college degree and many successful people do not have a degree. Other countries do not even require you to have a degree they require technicians instead. Although a degree is not required to be a technician you may be required to have at least 3 years of experience and education to qualify.
There were many self taught professionals in the 19th and 20th century they did not have formal education or degrees although they may have taken a couple of classes to catch up on math skills etc. etc. (which is why I think our current education system sucks so much) in the real world if you want to succeed you need hard work, you need to know people who share your interests and you need to know people who are in the industry. You need to get out of your comfort zone in order to land these jobs. But there are many self taught professionals who never officially got a college degree yet they became very successful.
Below is a link to article that covers this exact topic of college vs self taught and how much math you really need in the real world, the overwhelming majority of the architects that were interviewed basically said "not much". http://www.lifeofanarchitect.com/architecture-and-math/
Which goes on to prove my point about how ridiculous our current system is. Everyone thinks you should have a bachelors or masters degree to do these jobs but you really do not need one. If you're a engineer or a physicist the most important thing would be knowing the math. But as a architect all you're really doing is designing the building or structure and there are other people who's jobs are about making sure these builds are safe and meet local building codes. There are people who simply focus on designing buildings and floor plans etc. while other technicians focus on engineering part of the job. I think this is a much more effective approach because designers don't need to know higher math skills to make accurate and realistic designs.
Carrera
Jul 20, 16 12:02 pm
Known fact that architects can’t spell…with the advent of the computer why does anyone need to, even AutoCAD has spell check….with the advent of the internet why would anybody need to know complex math? My son attributes YouTube to his ability to graduate from architectural school, not his school….having trouble lately justifying in my mind why architects need to go to school today….can be enlightening, but for $125-250k to get “enlightened” at a state college makes me wonder.
Knowing how to find an answer and knowing the type of equation needed to solve math problems is all that’s needed…in 40 years of practice I never encountered a math question I couldn’t calculate on a $3.00 calculator….but of course your school will tell you different….ka-ching!
Hello,
As stated above I am not the greatest at math nor drawing for that matter. But I believe I have some "design sense" and I like to think I am good at photography, furniture design, etc. I have also thought about taking some drawing classes, but how much natural ability does one need?
Could I make it through Architecture school and be successful? Or would I be a glutton for punishment? I am considering leaving my present profession to go back to school. Any thoughts? Thanks
Yes.
There's a vast oceanic difference between architectural practice and an architectural education. Someone once tried to tell me that and I did not understand.........but hey 100k later I do.
Give yourself the chance.
ANYONE CAN BECOME ANYTHING THEY WANT TO BE.
TO BE AN ARCHITECT ALL IT TAKES IS TIME.
THE WORST MATH STUDENT, WAS ONE OF THE BEST DESIGNERS I HAVE EVER MET TO THIS DAY.
Thanks for the words of encouragement! It's just a big step giving up a good secure income to go back to school......but I wouldn't be here if I didn't need the change.....
you can do anything want ! if you practice you will get better it is all about the desire. do you have the inner desire to try , and try again. even if you get your ass handed to you in a review.
peace
k
if you ask yourself why do you want be an architect and can come up with some possible everlasting answers and can take financial risk, go for it. it is a long process and it takes dedication, and staying focused. but it will turn streets to movies and buildings to drawings and variations of as such possibilities.
most math in architecture,+,-,/,x and you will learn how and when to apply them. and you will figure out a graphic way to tell your designs, at least with basic alphabeth of plans, elevations and sections.
chances are, it is not going to be like what you think it was. you'll get fucked but it will be the best fuck you'll ever have.
You don't need to know math. That's probably the biggest misconception about architecture. If you can make it to college, you can do the math required of a typical architecture career.
If you are interested in design, you'll really like architecture school, and then you'll hate the working world. Sorry, that's how it goes.
If you think you're ok at drawing, you can always get better. It basically depends on your commitment and desire. Most of the people who say they can't draw, don't enjoy doing it and don't practice, and they don't get any better. If you enjoy it at all, with some practice you can become perfectly competent. Some of the most famous architects can't really draw for shit.
when i went into architecture school i knew that i was weak in math and drawing skills, but as stated above, you learn what you need to know mathematically, and honestly i really havent encountered much more than simple +/-/X...computers and engineers do much of that work. in fact i swapped out calculus for a symbolic logic class in school, and got a lot more out of it.
however, i do think that drawing is important, but everyone can draw! ydude, you can draw, you just have to learn how to like doing it. and i think that once you are in school long enough you will. if you "design sense" then you should already have enough graphic skills to be able to pick up a utensil and communicate something.
in other words,
don't be one of those people that i meet who is all like
"you're an architect?! that is so cool! i always wanted to do that, but i suck at math..."
and in my little brain i'm all like
"dude, the most challenging math class i ever took was pre-calc in HIGH SCHOOL!"
I have a math(s), physics, design background and I have found the maths and the calculus extremely useful especially because I am able to tackle many m & E and structural problems at sketch design stage without too much input from specialist consultants. Of course consultants are there for the direct input / assistance and the details as the project advances, but being able to ‘touch base’ with these design elements at an early stage gives a considerable design advantage.
The most important skill in Architecture is visualisation and the ability to communicate that through drawn skills. If you can’t communicate your ideas to the Client, builder etc then you’ve got little hope of making it. It is true that Some of the most famous architects can't really draw for shit, but their quality of the design communication is high.
You can make it in Architecture with no natural talent. It’s just harder work and you need to be more dedicated.
Ditto Stephanie. I've taught studios and drawings classes and the biggest - HUGEST - hurdle is the statement 'I Can't Draw.' Pisses me off. Get rid of that sentence or you're doomed. Just start doing it.
Take a drawing class so you know what to look for and how to break down your bad habits that have convinced you that you can't do it.
OR, get the book 'Drawing from the Right Side of the Brain' or something similar.
OR, just start making time for drawing. Draw anything. Keep a sketchbook. Don't throw sketches away. Watch your progress. Draw what you see - not what you think you see.
[+ I was never good at math. If I could have used my structural engineers phone number on the ARE.....but I passed first time.]
Drawing is really seeing. You can learn that. Architecture school helps to learn.
It's been said, but I say it again. The hardest math I do is adding fractions and the most difficult of all adding feet and inches! Which is a real bugger sometimes. I was good at math but never went beyond college trig. I agree with what is posted above. Don't underestimate design skills. That is... knowing what something should look like, recognizing and correcting awkwardness, attention to detail. Stuff like that.
Zero math required. I somehow slipped through architecture school with NO math classes. I think it's because I transferred in and my Math 101 from a previous school satisfied that requirement. I have never taken anything beyond high school algebra. The joke in my firm is that my license should be taken away because I need a calculator to add single digits.
If or when you have to take math, get a tutor to get through the class. You can get through structures by learning a few formulas. Cad calculates all your geometries and dimensions. Obviously, as BOTS states, a strong math background would be very useful, but not required.
Don't let the math stop you. Or the lack of drawing skills. The real question is how good are you at solving puzzles? That's what a building is. One big puzzle with many interlocking pieces.
How about physics? Is it important in an architect's education or is that another misconception about architecture?
you are doomed. give up now.
we are all doomed. run for the hills.
Only intro physics if your university requires it. The only math I had to do was for structures, and thats just trig and algebra.
A previous employer could do calculus equations in his head in less than 5 seconds, serious. He was the worst designer/architect I have ever met. His string of dimensions always added, though (done in his head also).
I was required to take calculus, why, why, why... Who cares about what's under the curve. Whoever required that calculus class was "Behind" the power curve.
calculus is a must for M & E calculations on daylighting, rainwater, acoustics, ventilation, thermal calulations. That is a must for those without an m & E engineer or a computer.
Just another sting to my Longbow.
I know NO architect that does those calculations. And in school I never used calulus for those calculations. That degree by mail must have really taken me!
Physics is properties of materials and forces. Physics in architecture is somewhat common sense. Buildings want to fall down. Wind wants to push them over. Sun and heat makes materials expand and cold makes them contract. Water always wants to penetrate. Books in a library weigh more than open computer space in same library. Physics in architecture are concepts such as hinge effects, non uniform loading, thermal expansion of material. An architect just has to know where to tell the engineer to crunch the numbers for.
I think there's a bigger picture here with regard to calculus and physics for architects. It's not about being able to do the math, but about an analytical and abstract approach to the world. So while architects do not use math/science in their daily routines, there is a real value in integrating the -thinking- that comes from those disciplines into your design methodology.
That said, being bad at math shouldn't stop you from going to architecture school. However, you should also make the attempt to learn such things and make them part of your worldview as an architect.
db:
is your design methodology so very similar to the methodology of math and physics?
Keep in mind that there's both an academic and professional difference between an architect and a builder. I agree with most of this thread that math skills are not of prime importance in architecture, and drawing skills can be developed. Instead of worrying whether you have the right skills to be something, try really understanding what an architect does first. Reality is sometimes shockingly frightening.
boo
my $.02.
being able to think with both the right and left lobes of your brain simultaneously is the most important thing - not being able to do math specifically, or to draw specifically.
if you have the interest and ability to do m&e calculations - more power to you. i've been out of school for way too long to mention and i have never had to. that's what i pay consultants for. more important is being able to understand what the consultant is doing, and to be able to critically analyze that - not check their calcs.
business skills, being able to read and understand contracts, negotiating - these are all left brain skills that are at least as important as math.
have a happy thanksgiving...
gustav--
architecture (as a methodology) is problem solving and the elucidation of systems. it is also (at its best, in execution) poetic. same goes for math and science (physics, but also chemistry, astronomy, etc).
I disagree about the lucid. Great insights/breakthroughs are made in the blinding light that is pitch black. What problems do you have?
???
Wow!!!! Lots of great responses. I was hoping to get a few but this is great.
Ditto. Im rubbish at numbers and at drawing, but I did pretty well at degree level. Learn to increase your skill in communication and youll be fine.
"Many of the most successful designers, inventors and architects are people who are self taught" that's right, self taught people or the official term we use is Autodidacts can be very successful and influential... take Bill Gates for example, he's a college dropout yet he is the wealthiest man in the world with almost 80 billion dollars in his pocket. Now I'm not saying you will become a billionaire but this is a example I use to inspire people. You can still be successful without a college degree and many successful people do not have a degree. Other countries do not even require you to have a degree they require technicians instead. Although a degree is not required to be a technician you may be required to have at least 3 years of experience and education to qualify.
There were many self taught professionals in the 19th and 20th century they did not have formal education or degrees although they may have taken a couple of classes to catch up on math skills etc. etc. (which is why I think our current education system sucks so much) in the real world if you want to succeed you need hard work, you need to know people who share your interests and you need to know people who are in the industry. You need to get out of your comfort zone in order to land these jobs. But there are many self taught professionals who never officially got a college degree yet they became very successful.
Below is a link to article that covers this exact topic of college vs self taught and how much math you really need in the real world, the overwhelming majority of the architects that were interviewed basically said "not much".
http://www.lifeofanarchitect.com/architecture-and-math/
Which goes on to prove my point about how ridiculous our current system is. Everyone thinks you should have a bachelors or masters degree to do these jobs but you really do not need one. If you're a engineer or a physicist the most important thing would be knowing the math. But as a architect all you're really doing is designing the building or structure and there are other people who's jobs are about making sure these builds are safe and meet local building codes. There are people who simply focus on designing buildings and floor plans etc. while other technicians focus on engineering part of the job. I think this is a much more effective approach because designers don't need to know higher math skills to make accurate and realistic designs.
Known fact that architects can’t spell…with the advent of the computer why does anyone need to, even AutoCAD has spell check….with the advent of the internet why would anybody need to know complex math? My son attributes YouTube to his ability to graduate from architectural school, not his school….having trouble lately justifying in my mind why architects need to go to school today….can be enlightening, but for $125-250k to get “enlightened” at a state college makes me wonder.
Knowing how to find an answer and knowing the type of equation needed to solve math problems is all that’s needed…in 40 years of practice I never encountered a math question I couldn’t calculate on a $3.00 calculator….but of course your school will tell you different….ka-ching!
Hurray for 14 year old thread!