i'm real excited about the possibilities for atlanta from the beltline project...anyone else have anything to say about it?
from the beltline.org site, a fundraising event for the beltline:
"Saturday, November 13 from 3:00 to 11:00 pm at Cityspace, 307 Cherokee Avenue in Grant Park. Learn about what some of our community partners are up to and enjoy Live Music, Food & Drink. Food from Six Feet Under 5:00 to 7:00, Beer from Atlanta Brewing Company."
If this project goes forward as both a transit corridor and a continous linear park, I think it would change the city of Atlanta immensely for the better. Not only would it boost Atlanta's ailing transit infrastructure, if the belt-line also contained a continous bikeway, jogging path (like Freedom Parkway) I think it would finally make bike riding a viable option in this city with one of the highest biker fatality rates in the country.
If it is "just" a transit corridor, I think most of the potential of the project would be lost. Tracks tend to divide, not bring together the communities on either side of the path.
If it's subdivided and turned into EIFS "lofts," and developed a la Gwinnett County, Atlanta will truly be a lost cause. I read in the paper that a big-time Gwinnett Developer has much of the Northeastern part under contract, but has not yet released his plans for his land.
momentum
Nov 9, 04 7:29 pm
makes me wonder how/if the city would actually divide if this came to pass. you would have the inner downtown core within the beltline, then the middle ring between the beltine and the loop, and then the ring outside the loop. would these divisions stand true? I wonder which areas would benefit from this the most? I also wonder if it would affect how the people of the city view themselves over time. Everywhere I go here people don't say they are from atlanta, they say the are from dunwoody, or buckhead or "insert hotspot here". It would be nice to see some pride for the actual city here.
aml
Nov 9, 04 7:57 pm
...let's not forget the belt line was initially a thesis project. way to go ryan gravel!
mLeach
Nov 10, 04 10:47 am
Ill be there. outta towners should go just for the food from six feet under.
weave
Nov 10, 04 11:06 am
whatup mLeach...when did you sign up on here? i think i'll be voluteering saturday from 1pm-12am.
good point kakacabeza....if anything has been proven in atlanta development, it's that hasty planning can and will lead to dismal results.
fortunately for the beltline, it looks like they'll have plenty of time to get it right while they wait for funding.
(and i'm sorry i couldn't make it to your halloween party)
gcr108
Nov 10, 04 12:30 pm
momentum,
I think that it is proper for people to say that they are from Dunwoody/Alpharetta/Buckhead... as opposed to saying that they are from Atlanta. Those places are not Atlanta(maybe buckhead is, but come on... does that really represent atlanta well?) and I feel like someone who lives in any of the suburbs isn't really from Atlanta at all(I lived in Dunwoody for a while). OTP is east-Alabama for all I care... The pride exists, especially in the tighter in-town neighborhoods. I am proud to say that I am from Atlanta and if anyone asks further I will most certainly say that I live in Oakhurst(the coziest in-town neighborhood).
P.S. Beltline rules!!!
richardtaylor
Nov 10, 04 12:32 pm
Hey weave,
I was planning on going, my old man invited me, but this pesky school interferes with all of my plans. There is also a pretty gnarly band playing at the masq that night which I was curious to see. Sigh. Anyway, thanks for the survey link. I’ll pass it along to the Atlanta constituents here at Auburn.
momentum
Nov 10, 04 1:44 pm
gcr108,
i guess i just come from a different type of city. In San Antonio I found that everyone pretty much said they were from San Antonio, even if they lived like 15 miles out of town/out of the loop (at least in my area). Here, i have actually had people take offense if it was said they were from Atlanta (and they live within the loop even.) My apartment complex even told me to put dunwoody as my city in my address even though it will slow down mail getting to me because we are actually within the city limits of atlanta.
I just think this type of mentality degrades the overall city and leads to the further development of the hotspots leaving the city as a whole, and the areas between these spots lacking. The beltline sounds like a spectacular idea to me, i am just interested as to how it may actually play out over time. If it did indeed have all the transportation componets it dreams, i can see it as a major help to the city, if it doesn't though, i am interested to see what it would do to the city.
you are definately right about alpharetta, it is definately not in atlanta, that is pretty far out from the center. there is a definate break evident along 400 until you get to it. dunwoody however sits right on the edge of the north loop and in my opinion is part of atlanta, wether or not anyone wants it to be or not.
actually though, i am interested as to what you think atlanta really is, and what your opinion is on it? I've only been here eight months, so i guess i shouldn't even comment on anything.
kakacabeza
Nov 10, 04 2:17 pm
When I'm outside of the Atlanta area, I'm sure to tell people I'm from Atlanta, but when inside the city, I tell people I live in Candler Park, which is vastly different than Buckhead. And Dunwoody is not a hotspot, its a place where corporations go to die. Take my advice, momentum, get out of that Dunwoody lease and come into our fair city. Come to an intown neighborhood and be proud to say which neighborhood you live in.
weave
Nov 10, 04 2:21 pm
as i've pointed out in other posts, the actual population of atlanta is a fraction of the 'atlanta metro area', which is nearing 5 million.
some of this is due to the city's tendency to divide through infrastructure (whether volutary or not), as pointed out by kakacabeza.
to speak to your post, momentum, nothing rubs me the wrong way more than when a resident of marietta, roswell, smyrna, and yes, dunwoody claim to live in 'atlanta'. these people do not pay for the services the city provides them and should not consider themselves residents. these issues play out in other cities, of course, but i would agree w/ you that residents of atlanta should take pride, but first they should become actual residents.
personally, i don't consider anything outside the perimeter to be atlanta. i know it may be a bit harsh, but i tend to cringe when i have to go somewhere w/ a (770) number.
but here's one way to look at the beltline:
paris has the peripherique, amsterdam its canals, new york is an island, etc...these great cities are bound in some way, with a definitive enclosure. other great cities have bodies of water which define an edge or they have ancient rampart walls that maintain density. currently, atlanta has I-285, an enourmous ring the contents of which are mostly cars and asphalt, not buildings and sidewalks as in the aforementioned cities. the beltline could serve to define the true urban area of atlanta, and help get proud residents from one neighborhood to another in a diversifying manner....ok maybe that's a touch idealistic, but you get the point.
if all goes well, it will be a great aminity to live on or inside the beltline, hopefully reversing some of the sprawl.
just thinking out loud...
momentum
Nov 10, 04 2:37 pm
i would like to get out of this area and closer to downtown, but my wife now has a job right next to our place, and since i ride marta for free thats why we live here. but if anyone knows of a place where you can rent for under 600 that has space for two people, two cats, two computers, two desk, a table saw, two chairs, a dining table, a drill press, some clothes and a bed, and room for a drawing board and a place to build bookshelves between downtown and dunwoody let me know. i have some months ahead of me till the move, but being closer to work would be nice. kakacabeza, weave, an suggestions?
weave,
as for my current area and others benefitting from atlanta without paying for it, whats up with that?
weave
Nov 10, 04 3:02 pm
momentum,
yeah i just re-read what i wrote and it sounded a bit elitist. i apologize...what i meant was that a lot of local political decisions seem to made by (or even for) folks that are pretty far removed from the city center. i mean, have you ever hung out in 5points or woodruff park, or auburn avenue and been completely blown away by the poverty, homelessness, and decaying urban infrastructure? and the lack of 'city of atlanta' residents results in less money to address these issues.
i'm happy you use marta (so do i, twice a day), but as i'm sure you're well aware, there are people who sit on 285 for an hour every morning, go downtown to work, and then get back in their cars to drive another hour or more back to alpharetta or whatever....the only thing they are contributing to the city is pollution, the 5 bucks they spend at lunch, and the money the spend to park downtown every month. they probably pay cobb or dekalb county taxes.
sorry for the rant.
but yeah, 600/mo would be cutting it close and i would be tempted to say that there isn't in town, but i would first look in east atlanta, cabbagetown/reynoldstown, homepark, and kirkwood.
kakacabeza
Nov 10, 04 3:36 pm
The big reason places like Dunwoody exist is because you can have an Atlanta address, but not be legally inside the city of Atlanta. Corporations like it because they don't have to pay city taxes, but they can claim to be based "in Atlanta." Stockholders like that. To me, the word Dunwoody conjures images of 80's corporate brass used liberally as a finish material, bargain rack suits from JC Penny's, and "elite executive gated communities." Get out before you get contaminated by people like your apartment manager, who actually thinks addressing your mail to "Dunwoody" is a good idea.
I've seen listings for two-bedroom houses in East Atlanta for around $750. Can't vouch for their character, but if you look around, you can find things for more reasonable prices than you think. It might cost more than Dunwoody, but there's a reason for that. (I pay $595 for a one bedroom apt. in Little 5 points).
sam sung
Nov 10, 04 3:51 pm
Looks like a great project, hopefully the jogging and bike paths will help do something about the other Atlanta beltline (i.e. the many size fats).
momentum
Nov 10, 04 6:25 pm
weave and kakacabeza,
thanks for the info. i will definately look in east atl when the time comes for the move, cause thats where my wifes school will be anyway. makes sense to me now why their is a bit of hostility toward some of thes places.
as for marta, i can't believe that people actually drive all the way to downtown from these places each day. it is insane how many cars i see backed up on the train each day. i have driven to work twice now, and can honestly say you had better leave by 7:00 in the morning or you will not make it to work on time because of traffic. i get an hour of sketch time riding marta each day, that i wouldn't have driving anyway. just doesn't make sense. anyway weave, if you ever see me with my sketchbook open on the train let me know, i ride from peachtree center to north springs each day. thanks again.
weave
Nov 11, 04 10:57 am
momentum,
no problem.
i'll keep an eye out for you...i ride from peachtree center to north ave.
mLeach
Nov 11, 04 11:13 am
An interesting aside... One of the towns that forms the northern boundary of Roswell, Is still incorporated into the constitutional elements of atlanta. Its residents, some of them very wealthy, are paying for a large number of services that benefit us. I had a lengthy conversation with a lawyer from this area who sits on a board of chairs that are trying to trying to form their own political entity. They dont see themselves as part of the city, and this gentleman went through great lengths to describe the problems that roswell is facing that cant be addressed because there are no funds.
While this man's opinion is that of an individual, I dont think it is an exception. I dont believe that many people who live in the metropolitan area actually think they are apart of the city proper, nor do I think they romanticize it as a place. They see a few places for entertainment and consumption, and a couple ecomomic relationships they must protect, but they loathe the idea of driving into the city to face the malaise of disease, dispair, poverty, traffic, and disorientation.
Give me a parkway or give me death.... the mantra of the couch riding suburbanite, contemplating his plate of cheese fries at the chilis.
mLeach
Nov 11, 04 11:15 am
weave... I signed up yesterday after a lengthy hiatus from visiting. I suppose I should take some responsibility our (architects) concerns by contributing to the discourse, even one of anonymity.
SelBen
Dec 13, 17 5:02 pm
Hi, I'm an architecture student in France and I'm writing a thesis about how urban spaces can help people express themselves and create, and I'm very interested in the Beltline project in Atlanta. I'm thinking about making it a case study in my work.
Anyone from there can give me some information about how the project is perceived there and if its really helping create a friendly urban space? (I don't find as much information as I thought on the internet)
i'm real excited about the possibilities for atlanta from the beltline project...anyone else have anything to say about it?
from the beltline.org site, a fundraising event for the beltline:
"Saturday, November 13 from 3:00 to 11:00 pm at Cityspace, 307 Cherokee Avenue in Grant Park. Learn about what some of our community partners are up to and enjoy Live Music, Food & Drink. Food from Six Feet Under 5:00 to 7:00, Beer from Atlanta Brewing Company."
anybody going?
also, has everyone filled out this survey?
that event should be submitted to the event calendar.
oh yeah...thanks paul.
If this project goes forward as both a transit corridor and a continous linear park, I think it would change the city of Atlanta immensely for the better. Not only would it boost Atlanta's ailing transit infrastructure, if the belt-line also contained a continous bikeway, jogging path (like Freedom Parkway) I think it would finally make bike riding a viable option in this city with one of the highest biker fatality rates in the country.
If it is "just" a transit corridor, I think most of the potential of the project would be lost. Tracks tend to divide, not bring together the communities on either side of the path.
If it's subdivided and turned into EIFS "lofts," and developed a la Gwinnett County, Atlanta will truly be a lost cause. I read in the paper that a big-time Gwinnett Developer has much of the Northeastern part under contract, but has not yet released his plans for his land.
makes me wonder how/if the city would actually divide if this came to pass. you would have the inner downtown core within the beltline, then the middle ring between the beltine and the loop, and then the ring outside the loop. would these divisions stand true? I wonder which areas would benefit from this the most? I also wonder if it would affect how the people of the city view themselves over time. Everywhere I go here people don't say they are from atlanta, they say the are from dunwoody, or buckhead or "insert hotspot here". It would be nice to see some pride for the actual city here.
...let's not forget the belt line was initially a thesis project. way to go ryan gravel!
Ill be there. outta towners should go just for the food from six feet under.
whatup mLeach...when did you sign up on here? i think i'll be voluteering saturday from 1pm-12am.
good point kakacabeza....if anything has been proven in atlanta development, it's that hasty planning can and will lead to dismal results.
fortunately for the beltline, it looks like they'll have plenty of time to get it right while they wait for funding.
(and i'm sorry i couldn't make it to your halloween party)
momentum,
I think that it is proper for people to say that they are from Dunwoody/Alpharetta/Buckhead... as opposed to saying that they are from Atlanta. Those places are not Atlanta(maybe buckhead is, but come on... does that really represent atlanta well?) and I feel like someone who lives in any of the suburbs isn't really from Atlanta at all(I lived in Dunwoody for a while). OTP is east-Alabama for all I care... The pride exists, especially in the tighter in-town neighborhoods. I am proud to say that I am from Atlanta and if anyone asks further I will most certainly say that I live in Oakhurst(the coziest in-town neighborhood).
P.S. Beltline rules!!!
Hey weave,
I was planning on going, my old man invited me, but this pesky school interferes with all of my plans. There is also a pretty gnarly band playing at the masq that night which I was curious to see. Sigh. Anyway, thanks for the survey link. I’ll pass it along to the Atlanta constituents here at Auburn.
gcr108,
i guess i just come from a different type of city. In San Antonio I found that everyone pretty much said they were from San Antonio, even if they lived like 15 miles out of town/out of the loop (at least in my area). Here, i have actually had people take offense if it was said they were from Atlanta (and they live within the loop even.) My apartment complex even told me to put dunwoody as my city in my address even though it will slow down mail getting to me because we are actually within the city limits of atlanta.
I just think this type of mentality degrades the overall city and leads to the further development of the hotspots leaving the city as a whole, and the areas between these spots lacking. The beltline sounds like a spectacular idea to me, i am just interested as to how it may actually play out over time. If it did indeed have all the transportation componets it dreams, i can see it as a major help to the city, if it doesn't though, i am interested to see what it would do to the city.
you are definately right about alpharetta, it is definately not in atlanta, that is pretty far out from the center. there is a definate break evident along 400 until you get to it. dunwoody however sits right on the edge of the north loop and in my opinion is part of atlanta, wether or not anyone wants it to be or not.
actually though, i am interested as to what you think atlanta really is, and what your opinion is on it? I've only been here eight months, so i guess i shouldn't even comment on anything.
When I'm outside of the Atlanta area, I'm sure to tell people I'm from Atlanta, but when inside the city, I tell people I live in Candler Park, which is vastly different than Buckhead. And Dunwoody is not a hotspot, its a place where corporations go to die. Take my advice, momentum, get out of that Dunwoody lease and come into our fair city. Come to an intown neighborhood and be proud to say which neighborhood you live in.
as i've pointed out in other posts, the actual population of atlanta is a fraction of the 'atlanta metro area', which is nearing 5 million.
some of this is due to the city's tendency to divide through infrastructure (whether volutary or not), as pointed out by kakacabeza.
to speak to your post, momentum, nothing rubs me the wrong way more than when a resident of marietta, roswell, smyrna, and yes, dunwoody claim to live in 'atlanta'. these people do not pay for the services the city provides them and should not consider themselves residents. these issues play out in other cities, of course, but i would agree w/ you that residents of atlanta should take pride, but first they should become actual residents.
personally, i don't consider anything outside the perimeter to be atlanta. i know it may be a bit harsh, but i tend to cringe when i have to go somewhere w/ a (770) number.
but here's one way to look at the beltline:
paris has the peripherique, amsterdam its canals, new york is an island, etc...these great cities are bound in some way, with a definitive enclosure. other great cities have bodies of water which define an edge or they have ancient rampart walls that maintain density. currently, atlanta has I-285, an enourmous ring the contents of which are mostly cars and asphalt, not buildings and sidewalks as in the aforementioned cities. the beltline could serve to define the true urban area of atlanta, and help get proud residents from one neighborhood to another in a diversifying manner....ok maybe that's a touch idealistic, but you get the point.
if all goes well, it will be a great aminity to live on or inside the beltline, hopefully reversing some of the sprawl.
just thinking out loud...
i would like to get out of this area and closer to downtown, but my wife now has a job right next to our place, and since i ride marta for free thats why we live here. but if anyone knows of a place where you can rent for under 600 that has space for two people, two cats, two computers, two desk, a table saw, two chairs, a dining table, a drill press, some clothes and a bed, and room for a drawing board and a place to build bookshelves between downtown and dunwoody let me know. i have some months ahead of me till the move, but being closer to work would be nice. kakacabeza, weave, an suggestions?
weave,
as for my current area and others benefitting from atlanta without paying for it, whats up with that?
momentum,
yeah i just re-read what i wrote and it sounded a bit elitist. i apologize...what i meant was that a lot of local political decisions seem to made by (or even for) folks that are pretty far removed from the city center. i mean, have you ever hung out in 5points or woodruff park, or auburn avenue and been completely blown away by the poverty, homelessness, and decaying urban infrastructure? and the lack of 'city of atlanta' residents results in less money to address these issues.
i'm happy you use marta (so do i, twice a day), but as i'm sure you're well aware, there are people who sit on 285 for an hour every morning, go downtown to work, and then get back in their cars to drive another hour or more back to alpharetta or whatever....the only thing they are contributing to the city is pollution, the 5 bucks they spend at lunch, and the money the spend to park downtown every month. they probably pay cobb or dekalb county taxes.
sorry for the rant.
but yeah, 600/mo would be cutting it close and i would be tempted to say that there isn't in town, but i would first look in east atlanta, cabbagetown/reynoldstown, homepark, and kirkwood.
The big reason places like Dunwoody exist is because you can have an Atlanta address, but not be legally inside the city of Atlanta. Corporations like it because they don't have to pay city taxes, but they can claim to be based "in Atlanta." Stockholders like that. To me, the word Dunwoody conjures images of 80's corporate brass used liberally as a finish material, bargain rack suits from JC Penny's, and "elite executive gated communities." Get out before you get contaminated by people like your apartment manager, who actually thinks addressing your mail to "Dunwoody" is a good idea.
I've seen listings for two-bedroom houses in East Atlanta for around $750. Can't vouch for their character, but if you look around, you can find things for more reasonable prices than you think. It might cost more than Dunwoody, but there's a reason for that. (I pay $595 for a one bedroom apt. in Little 5 points).
Looks like a great project, hopefully the jogging and bike paths will help do something about the other Atlanta beltline (i.e. the many size fats).
weave and kakacabeza,
thanks for the info. i will definately look in east atl when the time comes for the move, cause thats where my wifes school will be anyway. makes sense to me now why their is a bit of hostility toward some of thes places.
as for marta, i can't believe that people actually drive all the way to downtown from these places each day. it is insane how many cars i see backed up on the train each day. i have driven to work twice now, and can honestly say you had better leave by 7:00 in the morning or you will not make it to work on time because of traffic. i get an hour of sketch time riding marta each day, that i wouldn't have driving anyway. just doesn't make sense. anyway weave, if you ever see me with my sketchbook open on the train let me know, i ride from peachtree center to north springs each day. thanks again.
momentum,
no problem.
i'll keep an eye out for you...i ride from peachtree center to north ave.
An interesting aside... One of the towns that forms the northern boundary of Roswell, Is still incorporated into the constitutional elements of atlanta. Its residents, some of them very wealthy, are paying for a large number of services that benefit us. I had a lengthy conversation with a lawyer from this area who sits on a board of chairs that are trying to trying to form their own political entity. They dont see themselves as part of the city, and this gentleman went through great lengths to describe the problems that roswell is facing that cant be addressed because there are no funds.
While this man's opinion is that of an individual, I dont think it is an exception. I dont believe that many people who live in the metropolitan area actually think they are apart of the city proper, nor do I think they romanticize it as a place. They see a few places for entertainment and consumption, and a couple ecomomic relationships they must protect, but they loathe the idea of driving into the city to face the malaise of disease, dispair, poverty, traffic, and disorientation.
Give me a parkway or give me death.... the mantra of the couch riding suburbanite, contemplating his plate of cheese fries at the chilis.
weave... I signed up yesterday after a lengthy hiatus from visiting. I suppose I should take some responsibility our (architects) concerns by contributing to the discourse, even one of anonymity.
Hi, I'm an architecture student in France and I'm writing a thesis about how urban spaces can help people express themselves and create, and I'm very interested in the Beltline project in Atlanta. I'm thinking about making it a case study in my work.
Anyone from there can give me some information about how the project is perceived there and if its really helping create a friendly urban space? (I don't find as much information as I thought on the internet)
Thank you :)