It might be cool to start a project crit forum on archinect... A place students or designers could post images or projects for people to give feedback on... Thoughts? Or maybe an official project crit thread...?
Not a student... unemployed architect... Maybe this might work better if it were somehow tied to the student blogs... Yeah I should probably post something to kick it off... (since I brought it up) :p Don't have anything right now... Will post if I have something once I do... Maybe competition entries also? Work projects don't seem appropriate...
Posting projects/portfolios in the general forums tend to get lost in the fold - the image gallery seems more like a beauty contest since you cannot comment on the projects and they are often posted without any context. IMO - I think something like this should belong in the image gallery, but with comments enabled.
Agreed... That would be the way... But maybe make it it's own section, not all images would be project or crit material... Would be interesting to subdivide the image gallery into sections as with the forums, have "all images" and then have "general" "project photos" "site photos" "school projects" "competition projects" "renderings" or other categories... In general, subcategories and then allowing comment might automatically make certain sections receptive to crit type comments... Maybe "student work"... Not sure...
Maybe that's overdoing it... Wonder if it's too anal... But I wonder how to create a regular place for crits on a site like this... Some way to sort images that makes for a bit more official crit forum...
Or perhaps each person could upload their work as a flickr album so every image from one project could be viewed in conjunction? Therefore giving a broader sense of the project as a whole, making it easier for the forum to comment.
nice! thanks for posting to kick this thing off... okay i'll try to start this off...
first off, i think you've made an interesting forms, it's elegant as a form... you describe the experience of the spaces eloquently in the text and in perspectives, the experiential aspect of the space... so its interesting as an object, and it's beautiful, you show an idea about construction with your axons, diagrams... it's a building that's a conduit, that is expressive, a beacon, visible from the water, and it seems acts as a pier also?
my question would be: but how does it operate as a functional space? we understand looking at this what a phenomenal experience it creates, the kind of monumental significance of it as a piece of roadside art, and also visible from the water, but would people actually use this? how does this presentation convince your clients, the corporate and government entities that it is effective for their program? what's the story of why this thing is both beautiful and also functional? (i'm assuming this is not just a school project but is a competition that would be built?)
i realize that this is a speculative project, and you this was designed not in plan but in 3D, and this is schematic, but i think your scheme would benefit from floorplans and sections that communicate how that space actually operates, aside from the assembly axon's... People approach from the water and by car... the program says it requires a large workspace with desk space, and a lounge area for entertaining high profile guests? where does this happen? it's hard to tell the story simply in axons and in abstract perspectives... the sketches at the last page sort of tell the story a little better... but the plans and sections would help alot...
how does circulation work in this? how do people arrive, and how do they traverse these tubular forms, circulate between levels? (is their a stair or a ships ladder someplace?)... The form looks rather exruded horizontally... the ground planes don't seem to fold up and down between levels so its not like a continuous ramp?... I sort of see a spiral staircase in the sketch on the last page? And is that too narrow? what is the dimension, width and height of that corridor? are you going to be able to fit a workstation in there? it looks elegant the way it is, but where's the scale because it sort of seems like all circulation space and hard to imagine workstations in that space... I'm guessing that the idea is that all of the workspace is generated by the folding of these loops (so the structure, and the circulation and infrastructure are all integrated)... in other words: no furniture? is this really egronomic and functional or comfortable? or would this end up more of an art installation? is it user friendly? with the thing being all tubular elements, it's all basically corridors... i'm not sure if i would want to sit in that lounge space on a bench facing some other person... it feels a little bit like a very elegant and poetic subway car... where's the bar where i can grab a drink? where's the kitchen where catered events can take place, if i'm a high profile guest and am high maintenance and need to be fed? also... how do people collaborate in this space... if all the tables and furniture are built-ins, first off, it's not flexible at all... where are the spaces where people developing these cutting edge technologies can sit around and talk to one another? are they forced to always face the walls while working (which are also folding and slanted overhead making it difficult to set up a computer terminal), and talk to each other in parallel facing benches across a corridor? Or is there supposed to be furniture installed here? How is it flexible to adapt to changing technologies and allow people to plug in, if the occupied spaces are constrained by structure? What is the smart module that makes this thing something that people can plug into, and not just a sculptural expression? As a speculative project, how does it adapt to use and technololgies?
#1. i think the plans and sections are needed to tell the story... how the thing operates to meet the program you outline in the opening brief... #2. it seems to be form driven and circulation space, furniture, structure, infrastructure are all tightly connected... wouldn't this restrict flexibility? i'm not sure the spaces actually work for their intended use.
as an example, take rem koolhaas's seattle public library: it operates different from an average library in terms of circulation and the spaces and experience, but the form is driven by program and a new idea about how the library can work (as a continuous ramp of stack space)... maybe its successful, maybe not, but the program and operation drove the form, rather than form driving itself...?
Cool! Thanks BRink for the crit. For plans and sections, I'll need to get this thing into Rhino and make the cuts (modeled & designed in Max). I agree with you that it's not the most humane space and designed around this system of loops more than on actual users.
I was able to at least figure out a circulation route through it, but it would be nice to actually have rooms that taper off so that the whole thing isn't one circulation corridor with derivative work or lounge space to the side. If you check out the diagrams, I tried to delineate the workspace by having desks that branch off the structure itself (a bit more hard-edge), while the loops themselves form the seating areas in the lounge area.
I agree with you that the tightness of the system chokes off a lot of flexibility and constrains every move you make. It's funny that you see the design as form-driven, while some of my friends down here see it as structurally driven. Perhaps it's another project that illustrates the limits of imposing this type of rigid system, which tries to integrate everything (form, structure, space, human interaction, building systems) into its tectonics? I did work at making the slopes work so that people aren’t hitting their heads on the conduit while they work.
One interesting thing about the system is that you could take out certain bays or replace specific loops without tearing out drywall or altering the entire building. So, let’s say one bay wasn’t working; you could rip it out and put in a new bay. You could even build another pier further out and extend the thing way out into the ocean…
I've seen on other posts that you're a Seattleite and I hail from up there as well. Having spent a lot of time studying in the Central Public’s upper reading room, I’m pretty familiar with the project. I think it’s a great example of how fixating on one aspect of architecture (in OMA’s case, hyper-rationality, in my case, form & structure) too much can result in failure in other areas. I think we can both agree that, while getting up to the book stack and upper reading room is a cool journey, getting back down, via the exit stair or the overused elevators is a chore… Involuntary prisoners of architecture?
If you look at OMA’s initial diagram, before they draped the diagonal grid of skin around it, it works well, not just as a functional diagram, but also, I think we can also read a very architectural focus on composing these distinct massing types together in a pretty elegant way. The functions within each box or platform are worked out with relative independence, but then the composition, while being supposedly based on view-corridors or zoning setbacks or whatever, is still about being artful. There’s still an element of formalism in it.
An interesting critique I heard about it was that, while the initial diagram is great, the non-integration of the building skin and structure, which was added later, ends up drawing people’s attention away from the functionalism of the project and more towards the building skin, which isn’t what the original project is about at all. When most people envision the library, the first thing they think about is the skin and form.
Guess what I’m getting at is that focusing on one thing, like high-concept functionalism or strictly adhering to a bunch of systematic rules can result in success in some respects but a host of problems in others.
This isn’t actually a project for clients or even for a competition, although I might enter it in something if it fits. It’s just about speculation and actually came from a short-story I’ve been working on… After seeing the design, I’m thinking the story could actually act as a sort’ve critique, addressing a lot of the issues you mentioned. Here’s a space designed more around for conditions that aren’t centered on humans… And we can already see a host of problems that arise from this type of designing.
This could be a cool thread for people to post competition entries they're working on. Like maybe it becomes a surrogate studio for those of us out of school but that still want to work out some designs on our own.
Mar 23, 10 12:18 pm ·
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Project Crit Central
It might be cool to start a project crit forum on archinect... A place students or designers could post images or projects for people to give feedback on... Thoughts? Or maybe an official project crit thread...?
Nice idea, students and designers may even find it beneficial if comments were constructive and remained on point.
brink, are you a student, if so, post up some sheets, im sure many people on here would be keen to contribute.
Not a student... unemployed architect... Maybe this might work better if it were somehow tied to the student blogs... Yeah I should probably post something to kick it off... (since I brought it up) :p Don't have anything right now... Will post if I have something once I do... Maybe competition entries also? Work projects don't seem appropriate...
Posting projects/portfolios in the general forums tend to get lost in the fold - the image gallery seems more like a beauty contest since you cannot comment on the projects and they are often posted without any context. IMO - I think something like this should belong in the image gallery, but with comments enabled.
Agreed... That would be the way... But maybe make it it's own section, not all images would be project or crit material... Would be interesting to subdivide the image gallery into sections as with the forums, have "all images" and then have "general" "project photos" "site photos" "school projects" "competition projects" "renderings" or other categories... In general, subcategories and then allowing comment might automatically make certain sections receptive to crit type comments... Maybe "student work"... Not sure...
Maybe that's overdoing it... Wonder if it's too anal... But I wonder how to create a regular place for crits on a site like this... Some way to sort images that makes for a bit more official crit forum...
Or perhaps each person could upload their work as a flickr album so every image from one project could be viewed in conjunction? Therefore giving a broader sense of the project as a whole, making it easier for the forum to comment.
Here's something I just put together. It would be fun to have a discussion about the general idea, if anyone's up for it:
http://issuu.com/intotheloop/docs/pacific_connectivity_center
This is just for fun, I'm not a student. It would be cool to see other competitions or speculative work other archinecters are doing.
Dunno about the rest of you, but I like issuu's format over flickr.
intotheloop:
nice! thanks for posting to kick this thing off... okay i'll try to start this off...
first off, i think you've made an interesting forms, it's elegant as a form... you describe the experience of the spaces eloquently in the text and in perspectives, the experiential aspect of the space... so its interesting as an object, and it's beautiful, you show an idea about construction with your axons, diagrams... it's a building that's a conduit, that is expressive, a beacon, visible from the water, and it seems acts as a pier also?
my question would be: but how does it operate as a functional space? we understand looking at this what a phenomenal experience it creates, the kind of monumental significance of it as a piece of roadside art, and also visible from the water, but would people actually use this? how does this presentation convince your clients, the corporate and government entities that it is effective for their program? what's the story of why this thing is both beautiful and also functional? (i'm assuming this is not just a school project but is a competition that would be built?)
i realize that this is a speculative project, and you this was designed not in plan but in 3D, and this is schematic, but i think your scheme would benefit from floorplans and sections that communicate how that space actually operates, aside from the assembly axon's... People approach from the water and by car... the program says it requires a large workspace with desk space, and a lounge area for entertaining high profile guests? where does this happen? it's hard to tell the story simply in axons and in abstract perspectives... the sketches at the last page sort of tell the story a little better... but the plans and sections would help alot...
how does circulation work in this? how do people arrive, and how do they traverse these tubular forms, circulate between levels? (is their a stair or a ships ladder someplace?)... The form looks rather exruded horizontally... the ground planes don't seem to fold up and down between levels so its not like a continuous ramp?... I sort of see a spiral staircase in the sketch on the last page? And is that too narrow? what is the dimension, width and height of that corridor? are you going to be able to fit a workstation in there? it looks elegant the way it is, but where's the scale because it sort of seems like all circulation space and hard to imagine workstations in that space... I'm guessing that the idea is that all of the workspace is generated by the folding of these loops (so the structure, and the circulation and infrastructure are all integrated)... in other words: no furniture? is this really egronomic and functional or comfortable? or would this end up more of an art installation? is it user friendly? with the thing being all tubular elements, it's all basically corridors... i'm not sure if i would want to sit in that lounge space on a bench facing some other person... it feels a little bit like a very elegant and poetic subway car... where's the bar where i can grab a drink? where's the kitchen where catered events can take place, if i'm a high profile guest and am high maintenance and need to be fed? also... how do people collaborate in this space... if all the tables and furniture are built-ins, first off, it's not flexible at all... where are the spaces where people developing these cutting edge technologies can sit around and talk to one another? are they forced to always face the walls while working (which are also folding and slanted overhead making it difficult to set up a computer terminal), and talk to each other in parallel facing benches across a corridor? Or is there supposed to be furniture installed here? How is it flexible to adapt to changing technologies and allow people to plug in, if the occupied spaces are constrained by structure? What is the smart module that makes this thing something that people can plug into, and not just a sculptural expression? As a speculative project, how does it adapt to use and technololgies?
#1. i think the plans and sections are needed to tell the story... how the thing operates to meet the program you outline in the opening brief... #2. it seems to be form driven and circulation space, furniture, structure, infrastructure are all tightly connected... wouldn't this restrict flexibility? i'm not sure the spaces actually work for their intended use.
as an example, take rem koolhaas's seattle public library: it operates different from an average library in terms of circulation and the spaces and experience, but the form is driven by program and a new idea about how the library can work (as a continuous ramp of stack space)... maybe its successful, maybe not, but the program and operation drove the form, rather than form driving itself...?
the perspectives might benefit from labels?
sorry okay i see handrails indicating stairs...
Cool! Thanks BRink for the crit. For plans and sections, I'll need to get this thing into Rhino and make the cuts (modeled & designed in Max). I agree with you that it's not the most humane space and designed around this system of loops more than on actual users.
I was able to at least figure out a circulation route through it, but it would be nice to actually have rooms that taper off so that the whole thing isn't one circulation corridor with derivative work or lounge space to the side. If you check out the diagrams, I tried to delineate the workspace by having desks that branch off the structure itself (a bit more hard-edge), while the loops themselves form the seating areas in the lounge area.
I agree with you that the tightness of the system chokes off a lot of flexibility and constrains every move you make. It's funny that you see the design as form-driven, while some of my friends down here see it as structurally driven. Perhaps it's another project that illustrates the limits of imposing this type of rigid system, which tries to integrate everything (form, structure, space, human interaction, building systems) into its tectonics? I did work at making the slopes work so that people aren’t hitting their heads on the conduit while they work.
One interesting thing about the system is that you could take out certain bays or replace specific loops without tearing out drywall or altering the entire building. So, let’s say one bay wasn’t working; you could rip it out and put in a new bay. You could even build another pier further out and extend the thing way out into the ocean…
I've seen on other posts that you're a Seattleite and I hail from up there as well. Having spent a lot of time studying in the Central Public’s upper reading room, I’m pretty familiar with the project. I think it’s a great example of how fixating on one aspect of architecture (in OMA’s case, hyper-rationality, in my case, form & structure) too much can result in failure in other areas. I think we can both agree that, while getting up to the book stack and upper reading room is a cool journey, getting back down, via the exit stair or the overused elevators is a chore… Involuntary prisoners of architecture?
If you look at OMA’s initial diagram, before they draped the diagonal grid of skin around it, it works well, not just as a functional diagram, but also, I think we can also read a very architectural focus on composing these distinct massing types together in a pretty elegant way. The functions within each box or platform are worked out with relative independence, but then the composition, while being supposedly based on view-corridors or zoning setbacks or whatever, is still about being artful. There’s still an element of formalism in it.
An interesting critique I heard about it was that, while the initial diagram is great, the non-integration of the building skin and structure, which was added later, ends up drawing people’s attention away from the functionalism of the project and more towards the building skin, which isn’t what the original project is about at all. When most people envision the library, the first thing they think about is the skin and form.
Guess what I’m getting at is that focusing on one thing, like high-concept functionalism or strictly adhering to a bunch of systematic rules can result in success in some respects but a host of problems in others.
This isn’t actually a project for clients or even for a competition, although I might enter it in something if it fits. It’s just about speculation and actually came from a short-story I’ve been working on… After seeing the design, I’m thinking the story could actually act as a sort’ve critique, addressing a lot of the issues you mentioned. Here’s a space designed more around for conditions that aren’t centered on humans… And we can already see a host of problems that arise from this type of designing.
Wanted to add that if anyone else has other types of projects, please post them up here and we can talk about them!
This thread has the potential to be great! i cannot wait to look at the project when i get home from work.
It would be useful to know at what stage in a persons architectural career that each project is submitted so as to guage experience etc.
Good on you brink for submitting such a comprehensive reply.
Did my undergrad at UW a couple years ago. Worked on the contractor side (the dark side?) for about three years. I live in LA now.
This could be a cool thread for people to post competition entries they're working on. Like maybe it becomes a surrogate studio for those of us out of school but that still want to work out some designs on our own.
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