About time, a uk diploma post. Do you know specific application cutoff dates for the above schools?

dont know the specific dates but i know that its mid january for RCA, mid march for AA and UCL has rolling admissions so no cut off dates

Great!, Mid Jan also for london Met btw, i have a feeling Westminster is april but not certain.

also from experience i know oxford brookes still accepts applications/interviews in the summer

aa = study one history and theory subject + thesis or do three history and theory subjects. Most people i know do three subjects.

Failure rates are often exaggerated.

and yes AA.Dipl is not equal to DRL, but DRL does take alot of the limelight.

In my decision on schools, I looked at clusters of similar units of interest rather than a school as a whole. At the end of the day, AA units work totally independently, so really you will be going to a Unit or two if you switch for the second year. Outside of the unit, there is very little else.

As of now, AA Diploma has no studio space. This is soon to change.

thanks j'aime (are you a diploma graduate?)

i think its true what you said. its as if most people attend a unit for 2 years, not a school. this was brought up in the recent round-table discussion with mark wigley at bedford square. brett steele emphasised how experimental the AA is as a school but it seems like students have an extremely directed focus once they enter. i wonder why this is and whether its beneficial for students' experience...


the added studio space - any idea when that will come to fruition?


and on DRL taking the limelight - that is what has irritated me about most discussions surrounding AA output on archinect. you cant find reasonable discussion about the AA without bringing up parametric design and the DRL as a umbrella criticism. i think overseas, the two (AA / DRL) have become synonymous. yes, the DRL may be the largest graduate course and yes it is probably the most subscribed to and yes patrick schumacher's involvement has definitely raise the profile BUT from the outside its hard to see how the diploma school and the graduate school are two quite independent entities.

i think brett said after christmas for studio space, but even though I hope not, I am expecting to hear maybe next year as these things always delay themselves.

At the moment 15 people share a room smaller than my bedroom as a 'studio.' :(

I assume you want a dio v. MA?

there are many, many other great schools out there - you never really asked what your want - broaden your horizon or ask what school offers what your looking for -

one very important thing that you wont get at the AA as the dip is an undergrad degree - if you are overseas and wish to stay in the uk to get a practical training visa [tier 1 - 2 years] you MUST get a graduate level MA, MS or MArch - many and most UK schools are quickly switiching their PGDip to MArch - otherwise once you finish your studies your student visa generally finishes within 1 month of handin - not certain AA will ever make the switch as it students generally have to do a 10k word diseratation within their studies -

AA DRL and other AA MArchs are not professional qualifications and generally you must have a Architectural degree / qual to enter

apply as early as possible - at our school we get about 280 students applying for 45 places - so it fills quickly - oxford brooks is a factory and large student body

TED,

actually this post was intended to be about the Diploma. I mentioned the RCA MA because thats what they call their part 2 course and i mentioned the DRL because of the way it seems to cloud the AA's reputation on archinect. but basically, i wanted to avoid discussing postgrad courses because there are loads of other threads about that.

its interesting what you say about the AA's 10k dissertation to accompany their (design?) studies....i've never read anything about that. are u saying thats a requirement or is it that some people have chosen to do it in reviously ?


i started talking about london schools because i dont know enough about other ones. hence other people could add...

oxford brookes i've heard good things about also.... did u mean that the diploma intake is only 45 students per year? thats about RCA size. how is it a factory and large student body though?

hi conculture -

Educational standards and numbers of students allowed on part 2 courses in UK schools are driven by HEFCE and other government standards.

All UK schools except the AA are publicly supported schools - and more or less have the same tuition [this will change next year]. As the government contributes to all schools it caps the number of students [both to control quality] and to control the government funding- rca is a very small school and most likely takes less than that probably 20 - AA probably takes in about 60 or so in dip -

so you dont get big spikes in numbers entering a program like you do in the states.

in addition to ARB/RIBA who often validate courses, UK government has national standards on what makes graduate study v. undergrad study - for what ever reason, AA has always chosen to set it Dip as an undergrad degree - while students do a thesis do not know specifically what else drives this difference. the course is validated by open university.

It sounds as if your might be an overseas student - if you are you should consider courses that award some M degree to allow you to get a tier 1 visa post studies, else you could do a pgdip + 12 month MA

other schools for consideration: sheffield, brighton, edinburgher, cambridge, cardiff -- oxford brookes is good but not a london school - it is a factory as it has very high student numbers. University of east london.

Take a look at Brookes, as well. They have a highly rated architectural program.

Perhaps consider the Liverpool School of Architecture as an option also. Highly commended on recent RIBA visit and an awesome city to be in. I personally think it has many parallels to Berlin.

Edinburgh College of Art? Mackintosh in Glasgow?

From what I've seen, the WSA / Cardiff looks pretty strong. It has an interesting setup as well, where you spend one year of your studies primarily in proffessional practice.

I've been thinking about doing graduate studies in the UK (currently finishing up pre-prof undergrad in the states). If I am applying to an MA program (one equivalent to an M.Arch) at the AA, are the standards similar to a M.Arch in the states? Is the prof degree transferable as long as one can pass the respective licensing exams?

In short, no.
That isn't to say that licensure will be impossible in the USA with a degree from GB, just don't expect it to be easy.

And generally, the Masters courses (either MA or M.Arch) from AA are NOT equivalent to an M.Arch from North America. In Canada/USA a M.Arch is the first proffessional degree. This is the degree you need to get a license. Of course, some American schools still offer the 5-year B.Arch as a prof. degree which is basically equivalent.

At the AA, the only degree offered that leads to proffessional licensure as an architect (RIBA/ARB Part II) is the Diploma. After completion of your pre-prof studies in America, you could apply directly to year four of the Diploma school.

But really, at this point I think you should spend some time perusing the AA website or email them for a prospectus. They'll send you a nice little book, a poster, and a shit-load of pamphlets that should sort things out.

Hopefully this was of some help to you. Good luck.

IamGray,

do you know anyone who has been through the WSA course? cardiff uni seems solid but its a little strange to work for the first year of diploma. if anything, thats the time which should be spent getting involved in studio life. i know cambridge has a similar setup for their mphil course but i dont know if either of these are ideal. do u have any clue about ex-student satisfaction?

Conculture, no I don't know anyone who has been to WSA unfortunately.
I was only commenting on the work that I've seen from the school, and the favorable reviews that I've read online.

And I agree that the setup is unusual. Personally, it's not something I would want do, but it is an interesting alternative to norm, and may be beneficial for some students.

Again, I can't comment on ex-student satisfaction.
Are you considering applying to Cardiff?

hello everyone,

i haven't read all of these posts so forgive me if this has already been covered. i worked with a girl who was in her year out/year 1 of her part II at WSA. the fact that it's a year working combined with a year of uni is pretty strange and i know she didn't get much of a social life after finishing work at 6 and then working on her uni stuff until 12 pretty much every night. i think you miss out on uni life and research time but saying that you get design help and inspiration from your work peers. I think in a time like this is better to do the 2 years at uni rather than graduating a year earlier and not finding a job! a lot of practices like taking on students for a couple of days a week and over the holidays so you could still work whilst studying.

i attended MSA for both parts and it is a very good school, i know many people who have been to liverpool and liked it there. the best thing to do is get on their websites and download the brochures. london met and westminster are both excellent, a friend of mine got to go to korea with florian beigel at london met. i feel london has much more going on than up north, the AA i know is ridiculously expensive but if money is no object then go for it.

hopefully my ramblings have helped a little. can anyone explain to me the american architectural study route, what is your job title after completing diploma/part II?

There really is no equivalent to Part II in North America.

When you finish your education, you may enter the Internship program, so most would refer to you as 'intern architect', although a bunch of other titles are sometimes used. Basically you need to document x number of hours experience in various fields and take the NCARB ARE exams (or the Exacs, in Canada).

Things are muddied a bit further as every US state or Canadian Province/Territory has their own rules, and ultimately regulates the title of architect, (although gaining reciprosity is somewhat more straightforward once you're licensed in one jurisdiction).

The process is very long and drawn out when you compare it to some of our European friends.

Iam Grey

i was considering applying to cardiff but my doubts seem to be confirmed by letsgo. basically, i would prefer the traditional 'two years at school' diploma system in favour of anything patchy. not to put it down but i dont think its for me. have you done the diploma already?...


anyone else on this post a diploma student/graduate??


can anyone give us an idea of what the LMU facilities/studios are like?

on a separate note...

with 600 views and only 21 replies on this thread, am i right in thinking that there are hardly any UK archinecters out there?


speak up if not!

I am from the uk, no posts as i am busy writing my applications. ;-).

I recently went to a london met open day. The workshop was certainly impressive and a strong studio culture was evident. However, diploma students' studios were elsewhere so didnt get a chance to see them.

Definitely thinking of applying there though.

It would be great to hear opinions on schools outside of london, any info on the sheffield experience? Or bath even?

On the topic of applications. I have angled my personal statement based on how my architectural approach has developed during my degree and work experience. I have tried to remain humble and enthusiastic but am worried i come across pretentious. Any thoughts?

as far as i know, bath's architecture programs are engineering orientated - that is the department's strength. its also a campus uni (just outside of bath itself) so i don't know whether that appeals or not.


dont know anything about sheffield im afraid...


NWA, you mentioned before that LMU's deadline was mid jan but i cant find that anywhere on the website. do u know where i can find the exact date?

there doesnt seem anything pretentious about that angle.... but then again it completely depends on how you put it across

I didn't see it written down but in discussion with faculty staff they reccomended that, due to the popularity of the course, applying by mid jan. Nothing concrete though, sorry.

excuse the typo.

Im applying to UK schools too, does anybody have an online portfolio of a student that got into a good UK school like the AA or LMU for a post-prof M.Arch. i got the 5-year B.arch in the states.

tkarch2, this was intended to be a DIPLOMA thread...

no two post-professional masters courses are the same. especially not at the AA & LMU so your portfolio contents would really depend on which course you're applying for.

check out the EMTECH vs. DRL thread or the AA Histories & Theories thread if thats what you're interested in.

Hello, What is the though on portfolios for diploma interviews, it seems from other threads that in the US graduates are submitting near publication quality documents, professionally bound etc. Is this the case when applying to diploma or is the portfolio you present when applying more akin to the large leather ones as bought in art shops?

Conculture, How are you presenting yours?

i'm going for the latter.... at the application stage i think most schools want to see work examples rather than a professional booklet of your life's work. as long as the sheets are coherently organised i dont think there is anything wrong with sending loose sheets in a leather portfolio. but thats just my take on it..

conculture,
i know this is a "diploma" thread but since talk of the DRL was mentioned i thought i'd ask about the post-prof M.Arch portfolios. after all this is a forum right? I guess specifically im looking for a DRL quality portfolio

the DRL was mentioned yes..... in the context that it confuses people about the diploma. thats why it would be better if you raised questions about the DRL in the DRL vs. EMTECH thread. or start a new one. you are right that this is a forum, but the reason we have threads is to separate relevant from irrelevant topics. sorry to sound so pissy but the reason i started this post was to start a discussion about UK diploma schools rather than MArch I/ AA postgraduate courses people always wind up talking about on archinect...

with regards to the MA I feel if you want to go onto work as an academic and do a PHD then go for it but practices care about previous work experience, detailing, and site; they want someone who knows what they're doing and can take over a job with confidence. I'd recommend you try and get a job over here if you've already done the academic side, would be more economic!

I know that if you're an international student any Uni will probably have you, I mean you will have to prove your worth but the uk economy relies on the fees from int students. I think the AA only take on those who are really good. I know Liverpool has a great studio atmosphere. you work in groups for B.Arch which I think is a little strange but pretty similar to practice I suppose. Liverpool is a wonderful city for culture, nightlife, friendly people etc. Sheffield isn't an amzing city, no offense there's a good student poulation there but I don't like the city. though the work that comes out of that school is excellent! I work as a part 3 in Manchester at the moment; i graduated from Manchester in 2008. it's a good school but no studio space, most people work from home so I feel some would be a little isolated.

hope that's helped! on applications, I think they just want to see that you are driven, that you will work hard and that you'll enjoy it! I agree that work should be coherent at a decent scale but not above A2. mixed media too, show them your strengths and be confident! they'll want to see some of the work you've done in practice and probably to hear about your experience; how working has changed the way you design, influenced you etc. I'd keep your application short and sweet though, get it right spelling, grammar etc. and most importantly presentation!

hoping to go to either the AA or Bartlett in 2011 and an international student so need financial assistance to do so. this could be a silly question but is the diploma school at the AA/Bartlett considered to be post graduate studies or is it still undergraduate? just not sure what scholarships i can apply for as many from home limit to post graduate studies only. i hear scholarships to the AA are very hard for international students??? does anyone know someone that has received financial assistance for the diploma school and if so would be able to tell me something about them, generally of course, just feel like i can't place myself as i have nothing to judge against.. i'm guessing they would look for self motivated projects outside of your studies/work alongside an amazing portfolio, CV, academic transcript and references... hmmm...

the other option is to do exchange to westminster, but this is only available for me at undergraduate level.. so still don't know if diploma school is considered under or post grad..i guess i'm used to the bachelor then masters structure.

any help/advice would be appreciated..

also i have a problem with the clarity of interest thing, when people say you should probably be quite certain of what your interests are, etc... but what if you're still figuring that out. i know architecture is the right profession and i know what i'm not interested in but i find it much harder to define what it is that really truly interests me. I hope the exposure to another school and country will assist in becoming a little clearer as to what direction i want to head, but perhaps this isn't enough, perhaps I should figure this out before I do my diploma/masters... thoughts?

right now aadip is undergrad and bartlett dip awards an MArch so would allow you to apply for a practical training visa [2 year] upon grad -

i havent heard if the aa will change it -they should to respond to visa conditions

most internationals who get scholarships at a any uk school gets it from some form of sponsorship from their country - not from the uk

both schools do show scholarships on their web site - so apply early and if you dont have the highest distinction, a first or equiv award from your first degree plus and incredible portfolio dont keep your fingers crossed

Conculture: What type of work being done by each program speaks to you the most?

While I can't enlighten you to the supposition of, as you say, "S$it Stirring" at UCL; however, the most salient point I can make about the Bartlett program (diploma-turn-masters degree), is the quality of the work being done in the Wates House. The truth is that this school, and indeed your other UK options, depend most on the experience you gain within the Unit(studio) structure. But what makes Bartlett perhaps more unique than your other choices, is the quirkiness about the work – to which I think gives it an edge compared to most schools. Correct me if I'm wrong, but when one compares previous year's UNI "summer shows" it corroborates this statement.

At the Bartlett, there are around a dozen different sub-paths you can take within the school itself. Each unit tutor/professors develops a different theme for the year to guide the direction of the 10-20 or so "4th & 5th" year students. To enter one of these units (after you are initially accepted by the Uni), you attend a lecture to see who's work identifies with you. Subsequently you interview with your top-three Unit choices and could potentially be rejected by your top-choice. Don't worry about the latter point however, but don't enroll in a unit that focuses on motion graphics if you have no interest in that. it is a shame that you can't take all of these units, but you should be pretty clear about why you want to enter a particular unit.

Praise for the work at Bartlett aside, I also think that Westminster possesses a strong program with a diverse portfolio as well. It had a nice mix between the units.
- - - - - -
Finally, don't let the brand-names fool you. If you are purely interested in creating cool work, London is a great place to be. While the subject of the post is not particularly about the city itself, it is certain that the milieu of London's academic culture is enriching to a foreign student – especially because it's easy to leave London and explore the rest of Europe on weekends via Ryanair's £5 tickets, but I digress.

If you want to know the dirt about UK Uni's, I truly feel the onus is on behalf of yourself. The application process isn't streamlined, and it sort of reflects the slowness of UK's banking industry. In general don't be fooled either on the surface impression that UK is without personal incompetence, even within the Uni's administration itself. I'm reticent to say it, but compared to my undergrad in the US, where they held our hand through scholarship and financial aid matters, etc., it seems here that you have to pull-up your boots and do the work yourself. Again, my impression, it could be different for others.
- - - - - -
About portfolios and such. With the US's proliferation of the book, "Portfolio Design" the trend to make small-bounded portfolios is indicative of a portfolio from the US. When I was attending the unit interviews, many European and Asian students had the large-art portfolios. And while I personally sent a small a4 sized portfolio in application for economy, the common nature is to eventually obtain a large loose-leaf zip-up portfolio that "art students" utilise. To be honest it gets a bit obsessive. A simple portfolio container demonstrating your own unique content is the best.
One might include examples of work that might entice a particular unit, if so desired.

In my time off subsequent to undergrad I worked hard on a series of sketchbook/journals and included images from them, as well as explaining key ideologies behind them. This might have set me apart from others. I was looking to explore my artistic-side (as pedestrian as that sounds) because I felt the professional direction of work [at firms, and such] wasn't "loose" enough. This insinuates that yes, definitely put professional work in. Again, I reiterate that you should include the strongest work that demonstrates your competence, but also what separates you from the 1k others vying for that spot.

- - - - - -
More dirt: Most UK 4th year students must complete Design Realisation Report that conforms to the RIBA and is true for the Bartlett no-less. This is purely about ticking boxes to satisfy the RIBA powers that be. While the Bartlett tutors/professors stress progressing artistically, beyond the requirements of the RIBA to make it a thoughtful provocative project, some units value this sentiment more than others. The units with the better pass rates seem to adopt a "get it done" mentality while others are overly fastidious [pedantic] about the cultural/formal merit of the building. And while I've seen some utterly outstanding DR report projects, keep your predilection to innovate at a very comfortable distance (as if taking the ARE, for example). From a style perspective Box-buildings seem to have a greater ease as compared to more contemporary forms practiced in other units. But please do look at the quality of the DR reports coming from your choices of schools. They might reveal a sub-mentality about the way one approaches the nature of built-form when it comes down to defining a workable, technically viable aesthetic. But whether you prefer the formal implications of a Swiss-box, or a blobitecture, I think overall there is still a quality makes on proud to be in the company of talented students.

xpro, thanks for taking the time to write a lengthy discussion,


you are quite right to suggest that a diploma school is essentially the sum of its units. of course, i do have my preferences in some, not all, of the universities i listed but i won't bore you with my personal inclinations (because i want this thread to be useful to everyone). however, let me say a few things relating to your post;


1. whilst it would would be very indicative to read samples of each school's DR reports I am at a loss as to where and how I could get hold of any! after all, i imagine they are submitted for internally and never publicly displayed?

2. ''don't let the brand-names fool you. If you are purely interested in creating cool work, London is a great place to be'' what do you mean brand names? i'm confused, all the universities i listed are in london..

3. apropos the portfolio; in your experience, did you send a condensed version of your entire portfolio at the application stage (compared to what you brought at the interview)? do u know what is the norm? i am in the position where i dont want to reveal everything but i want to interest them enough to invite me for an interview...

4. is it ever the case that people fail to obtain all 3 of their unit choices? where do they get 'offloaded' if so?

5. is there a big studio culture in the bartlett or do most students work from home as in the AA?

conculture: I'll answer in reverse order.

5. Studio culture @ UCL: Depends on the crescendo of the 3 semesters, but in general I'd guesstimate that the Wates house's quotidian studio occupancy rate was comfortably around 30-50% for the diploma units. Peak capacity occurs during portfolio hand-ins and crits, but 4th & 5th year student deadlines don't collide.
One subtle factor worth mentioning is the closing time of London supply shops. Unlike my undergrad, the building isn't open 24 hours a-day. It's more like 8-ish to 10:45pm with a security crew to enforce that policy. On occasion they will keep the building open on the day of major hand-ins.

The layout of the building is fairly insular and the rooms are fairly small, but you won't have to rent studio space. As a consequence, I think, this may lead to the reinforcement of those individual unit "loyalties." and perhaps hinders the cross-referencing one might expect. That being said, the ones who do take the effort to make those cross-unit relationships happen get the best overall picture of the school. We have cross-crits with other units, a couple big barbeques parties in the shop, the occasional Monday bar headed up by a selected unit in the smallish lobby and spirits after the lecture series. Most people are very amiable and it is easy-enough to develop those relationships if you desire. I'm happy with my studio culture experience and while I didn't have the luxury of space found at some US schools, remember these are urban-scaled UK spaces which have a smaller human-to-sq.m ratio and you will learn to get by.

There is a History and Theory module as well and which allows one to meet even more students in other units. (again, being too obvious) A real benefit to all this is the networking that occurs between the students and while some may have an intense sense of competition - as most schools do - you end up learning SO much from your peers.

Do the students work from home? There are units that seem to only need a laptop as their primary tool. We often didn't see many of them working in the studio; however, there are other units that rely almost solely on the machines in the shop and because the opening hours (for the shop), they mostly have to complete their tasks before 7-ish. The DMC (Digital Manufacturing Center) which contains all the SLS, Zcorp, lasercutting, 3d Router, etc have normal "business" hours as well. Previously, the laser cutters had a later opening time, but they put an end to it. I'll tell you what I did miss about my undergrad is the "looseness, but personal responsibilty" the shop had. Here, its slightly more totalitarian. So, if you make films, you can stay at home or work in the lab. If you need a time slot on the laser cutter, you'll be there during the day. So in the context of people working their tails off, yes there is a studio culture there. I add parenthetically there aren't any student organisations for arch students that I'm aware of that are on campus - not a problem b/c you will be too busy for that.

Consider the proximity of your accommodation to your school as well. The closer you are the better chance you have of engaging this rich and diverse studio/lecture culture. Geographically, the east-side of London is traditionally less expensive, but book your spot before the droves of students arrive in the Fall. I never stayed in UCL accommodation and have an issue with that office, but they have a list of spots. If I may elaborate, allow for a solid 2weeks-to a month of searching for that perfect place. I stayed with some RCA design students on the West side, which on one hand gave me a great perspective on their programs, but I was too far away in Zone 3.

4. Unit choice: Some students don't obtain their 1st & 2nd choice. While there's no limbo that I know of, act quick on your decision and choose wisely your first option. If there's compatibility, you'll be accepted.

3. Concerning portfolio: I sent a full, spiral bound portfolio in the application process. I don't know exactly who sees this application, but that is why you need the interview with the unit, I guess. The thickness of the portfolio ended up being around 10mil thick printed double side at a kinkos. I've seen others 20+mil thick. I developed it through several iterations with peer review before I submitted. As far as revealing (or not) everything, use your judgment. The rules might be different now, but I simply invested the time and put everything I thought represented a certain range of personal interests. It may be laboring the point but make sure you have some nice diagrams (especially if your AA bound), all your nice plans and sections, etc, etc. but don't be afraid to put a crazy experiment you might have done as long as it's relevant and documented well. Most importantly, I think you should be able to demonstrate that: yes, I can design a building, but also I'm willing and have the potential to address issues beyond the confines of current architectural discourse.

2.Brand-Names: I was referring to brand-name Uni's in London. They have their own implied hierarchies here just like the Ivy's do as well. If there's any proof of that, near the front of the AA, there is a blue-plaque which states something to the effect that The world's most famous architects have been here, (sooner or later). I truly admire AA's confidence and self-promotion! The Bartlett can learn from that overt sense of hubris. I kid. In reverse, if you go to the Wates House the last I saw, the name of the school was peeling off the window - a sad first impression as if to deliberately imply: what we care about more about the work inside than to be bothered have a nice first impression. (purely an interpretation) Again, I kid. Snobbery is everywhere, but behind it all, there's "good people" with a keen sense of English banter.

1. DR reports. You might ask the Design Report Coordinator (if you had the pleasure of coming to the school and seeing them in person), otherwise they aren't digitized that I know of. It'd be fussy of me to impose that extra-data search on your decision. I just thought it'd be a prescient way to prepare for the first year. Maybe that pursuit of inquiry might help you in your interview? I'm not sure, but it would at least demonstrate you know a little-bit about what is going to be expected in your core curriculum.
- - - - When people read this much detail, it might discomfort them concerning a particular program, but the reality is that it takes a great deal of effort to pursue an education in the UK.

How are everyones applications going? Confirmed places, interviews lined up?