I attended a state school for a 3-year M.Arch and was fortunate to receive a graduate teaching position. The position provided a tuition waiver plus a stipend of $900-1000/month. I still acquired about $30K in federal loans, but that was mostly due in part the fact that I chose to participate in study abroad programs during the summer rather than working for a firm.

Out of my M.Arch class of 22, I would say probably 15 had some form of GA/TA position by the time we graduated.

I have to guess that the extreme belt-tightening we are witnessing in state budgets will have impacts on the number of GA positions that state schools are able to offer in the next few years....

thanks gresham, i really appreciate it

loans, loans and more loans. I'll be paying back grad. school until I am 50 (at least). It sucks, but it's part of life and you move on.

I think loans and TA spots are probably the only (legal) way to go. You could look into trying to find small-scale scholarships (every little bit helps) and if you can manage the added time crunch, a part-time job. Gresham is right though- belt-tightening is making things difficult on all fronts. Thanks, housing bubble!

Doing the same thing as Gresham. Ga Tech has a co-op that is part-time work for a firm w/ tuition waiver, plus 800/month. Great deal especially right now.

Turned down an ivy that would have put me in 150,000 worth of debt.

One thing that I wish I had thought more about before I took out loans is to really understand what the debt service for your loans will be (i.e. what will your monthly payment be for your anticipated total loan amount?) I think my mentality was, well, I'll just worry about that later.... but the monthly impact of the loan payment is very real, especially considering the modest salaries we make as architects.

My total debt from school wasn't that huge, but I don't know how the folks who took out $150K in loans do it, to be honest.... I would be curious to hear what their monthly payments work out to be and how they are making ends meet financially, especially these days.

It's all about sacrifice. If you were a Jewish peasant escaping Rotterdam in 1939, what would you sell to buy a ticket? to bribe the visa officer? If you were a teenage girl from Fujian, escaping the sexual agressions of a gang leader who had already killed your brother and boyfriend, how much would you pay to be smuggled to San Francisco? For how many years would you work at a Chinese restaurant/massage parlor in Sioux Falls to pay off that debt?

Now imagine yourself in your mid twenties, yet uncleaned by the halls of academia, trying to enter a profession that does not want or need you. What sacrifices would you make to take your lessons at the GSD? To have the word ARCHITECTVRE written below COLVMBIA?

I wouldn't be willing to sacrifice much at all to take lessons at the GSD. Actually I might opt for the Souix Falls massage parlor instead.

I'm about to start an M.Arch at a pretty expensive school and I'm looking at taking on a lot of debt (around $100K). About half of that will be from federally subsidized loans that offer below market interest rates (in other words, they'll give me lower than normal monthly payments).

To be honest I'm just starting to seriously think about how I will pay for all of this. But one thing I can say is that the time frame over which you pay for a loan has a very big impact on how much you have to pay each month.

You might feel like it's best to pay off a loan as soon as possible, but that's a big mistake. It is much better to take out loans with as long a term as possible, giving yourself a smaller monthly payment. That way you can actually afford the payment when you're young and fresh out of school. You won't care that you're still paying off your student loans when you're 45 because by then you'll be making more money, and inflation will make your monthly payment will seem like a much smaller number.

What's wrong with the GSD, out of curiosity.

i got scholarship, worked part-time, and TA'd. the rest i paid for in cash after working for 3 and a half years in office and saving enough money to buy a house (choice was house or m.arch ;-) ).

i cannot imagine how anyone pays student loans as an architect and still maintains a decent lifestyle. i know it happens but if i had substantial loans would have had to make some very hard choices and my life would be utterly different.


GSD looks good to me.

Oh there's nothing wrong with the GSD :-) There are lots of good people there.

But after spending too much time reading the "commiserate here" threads I became aware of a kind of irrational worship of the GSD as the holiest of holy architecture schools. I could never figure out exactly why, except, maybe, for the Harvard name. I mean, it's a great school, but I'm not sure how the GSD is demonstrably "better" in any way than Penn, Columbia, Michigan, Berkeley, Rice, or any number of prestigious schools with excellent facilities/resources and very competitive admissions. I can see really wanting to go to Harvard if you like the vibe and are into the professors' work. But why have I met so many people (not just reading archinect threads) who went there because they "couldn't say no" to the GSD?

Saying I'd take working as a sex slave in South Dakota over going to the GSD was just me lashing out at the school's mysteriously lofty reputation among M.Arch applicants.

But this thread is about paying for M.Arch degrees, so I'll stop talking about the GSD.

Honestly, I'm pretty scared about going into a lot of debt for architectural education, but like 10 said, it's all about sacrifice. I'm really hoping for a TA position, but it's far from gauranteed.

I suspect that a lot of people coming out of 3-year M.Archs with a lot of debt lean on a spouse or on parents for help here and there. And maybe they take a more "corporate" job that pays $70,000 instead of the job at the really creative little firm that pays $40,000. And then eventually they work their way up and are getting paid enough so the monthly payment isn't such a big deal.

Bluesman7 - bad ass! i'm glad to see that not everyone is ivy blinded.

10 - are you suggesting that educational prestige is a life/death situation in the architectural field? you make a good point on that it all comes down to sacrifice; do you think that going to the "holiest of holy architecture schools (the GSD)" would be rewarding in terms of career opportunities, networking, salaries etc. or is it more of a personal endeavor/bragging rights. I guess, i'm asking what is the sacrifice for?

scottaway - good luck on the TA positions. I guess the line between scholarship and tuition is blurry everywhere.

jump - was the scholarship though the school? if you don't mind elaborating, i'm looking for schools that tend to offer lots of scholarships.

It's not so cut and dry, but more of a combination of career opportunities, networking, faculty, as well as bragging rights.

But that goes for all of the schools. Choosing a school is not like buying a washing machine. Whatever quantifiable differences are mercurial at best, so the final decision will have to acknowledge emotional as well as practical concerns. Maybe it is more like buying a car.

so many analogies. rofl.

Are you unable to get federal loans because you are still considered a dependent of your parents? I think you should go back to the financial aid dept and find out what is going on.

I took out a combination of federal and private loans to pay for my M.Arch. After graduation, I rolled them into one big, fat 30 year loan, which reduced the monthly payment (but obviously increased the total payback amount). I should be completely school loan free by my 61st birthday!

Apply many places and see what you get. GSD has large endowment and was nearly the least expensive option (for me -even state schools and living cost considered)

commuter - yes i'm a dependent, i'm 20. i've tried talking to them, but they're pretty stingy, especially because my parents make "middle-class" income that disqualifies me from need-based grants. my circumstance is complicated, but i'll make it through undergrad.

mongoose - so gsd gave you money based on merit or need? from the discussions, it seems like lots of people are 100k+ in debt who went there (and the like schools).

I went to Yale and got a little more than half of it paid for, the other half was a combination of federal loans and loans from Yale. I was also a TA most semesters but that doesn't amount to much there. I also asked them to throw in some more money when i accepted which they did, granted it wasn't much, but every little bit helps. If you can wait a year to apply and try and find a job in the mean-time you can use your income on the federal loan applications and not your parents which should qualify you for the full loan amount. If you can't take a year off i would ask your parents not to claimyou on their income taxes so that you will no longer be a dependant. All that being said, i owed about 50K leaving school and have a 20 year loan, payments are around 300/month.

hey genuwine

So was it worth it?

definately!

definitely is such a ridiculous word, either we should abolish it from the English language, or American schools need to learn how to teach people how to spell.

last may i graduated from an ivy league school and i have no doubt that it helped me find a job in new york city right after graduation. also, while i was going to school i had no problem landing internships at some good offices. the competition out here is fierce, so the extra boost on your resume certainly helps.

...and i'm not just doing CD sets - the majority of my work here involves design work. yeah, i'm over 100K in debt, but so far the experience is worth it

of course you have to work super hard while you're in school to make it worth the $ and build your reputation.

over 100K? how much monthly payments? and how much is the job at NY paying? Just curious

M.Arch. 96K in loans.
$670 per month over 25 years. roughly.
It is feasible making at least 36k a year.

100k debt is totally doable for me. I budget well and live below my means. My education is important to me and is worth ever penny. I would rather go back to school then finance a fancy car or buy $300 sunglasses. Everyone has different goals, priorities, and life styles.

Any one else have 100k loans?

iheartbooks - i probably WILL 5 years from now ;)

well over 100K...it's a little daunting but it was all worth it.

i went to a state school for M.Arch, worked about 1 year of the 3.5, and summers...but realized that working at an office during school is really really hard to do. in the end, i had about 45k in loans on top of scholarships, which covered in-state tuition, all the best school supplies and normal/lower cost living expenses for california, and an amazing study-abroad summer trip (the loans are totally worth it if you can study abroad).

i know it sounds minor to some of you, but to me, the 45k in loans is still daunting to face now that i'm in the real world, presently making 35k a year... it is so disheartening to see the interest accrue...i don't think i could manage paying my loans and living my moderate lifestyle without my sig. other--not with this salary and the cost of living in so. cal. i don't have a fancy car, i share a 1 bedroom apt and i don't have 300 dollar sunglasses...

i don't want to discourage anyone, and getting a good education is totally worth the money. but consider this: i didn't get my architecture degree from an ivy league, i don't have 100k in loans, but i do get to design, besides developing CD sets and everything else. but another thing to consider--with all of the budget crises going on, are state schools still offering the same caliber of education?

i went to a state school for M.Arch, worked about 1 year of the 3.5, and summers...but realized that working at an office during school is really really hard to do. in the end, i had about 45k in loans on top of scholarships, which covered in-state tuition, all the best school supplies and normal/lower cost living expenses for california, and an amazing study-abroad summer trip (the loans are totally worth it if you can study abroad).

i know it sounds minor to some of you, but to me, the 45k in loans is still daunting to face now that i'm in the real world, presently making 35k a year... it is so disheartening to see the interest accrue...i don't think i could manage paying my loans and living my moderate lifestyle without my sig. other--not with this salary and the cost of living in so. cal. i don't have a fancy car, i share a 1 bedroom apt and i don't have 300 dollar sunglasses...

i don't want to discourage anyone, and getting a good education is totally worth the money. but consider this: i didn't get my architecture degree from an ivy league, i don't have 100k in loans, but i do get to design, besides developing CD sets and everything else. but another thing to consider--with all of the budget crises going on, are state schools still offering the same caliber of education?

sorry for the double post.

Do you really think that in this economic climate, that spending $40,000 - $80,000 more money you don't have for a job that may or may not be there is prudent?

Do some math.

How much do you think you will be paid right now if you got a job?
How much do you think you will make after 2 more years of schooling?
How much will you lose over those 2 years, if employed?
How many people will be promoted over you due to their 2 extra years of experiance?

I am certain you can ask a few more questions.

I'd try to get a job, any job at this point, hopefully find one in architecture in the future, work my way up and then decide in an March is required for where I wanted to go.

Seems like the cart is before the horse here.

I'm have started, and continue to propagate a business to provide myself with residual income while I am completing my M Arch.

There are a whole lot of rich d-bags in my homeland (just over three million make more than 250k/year), if they can do it, I can do it one handed and blindfolded while tripping on acid.

I tend to think about the money I spent (and will spend) on education as a long-term investment. Yes it is rough paying 600 a month now for student loans, but in 10 years that number probably won’t hurt as much.

People’s individual paths through architecture have always interested me and I have found a lot more firm owners and principals that have gone to a well-known schools then have not.

It is clearly not the only way to become successful, but I have never met someone who has gone to an Ivy League school who thought it wasn’t worth the sacrifice.

For me, getting an ivy league degree was not worth the sacrifice.

I had over 100k in loan debt after I graduated. Now, I think going into a profession where it will take a lifetime to pay back was one of the worst decisions I have ever made.

i stand corrected. sorry to hear that 987.

iheartbooks.

Please read.

http://finance.yahoo.com/college-education/article/108846/the-555000-student-loan-burden?mod=edu-continuing_education

Fence:

I understand your point and I am not disagreeing with you.

Some people overextend themselves financially.

Its less about how you waste your money (grad school, expensive homes, gambling) and more about knowing your own financial limits.

The point I am trying to make is that higher education is worth the money to some people and not to other. To me it is worth it, and a lot of people I know would agree. Not everyone of course, but that’s ok.

I graduated 13 months ago with an MArch, and for the last 12 months have been working at a hospital as an assistant to the administrator (as an owner representative on facility improvement projects), while living at home, doing contract work for local firms on the side, and looking for fulltime archfirm work also.

I've hated every minute of it, but I've also taken my debt down from 58k to 30k by putting every penny of what I make into repayment. I dont know when I'll finally get the job I want, but in the mean time I'll keep paying and this recession might just turn out to be the best thing could have happened for my financial future.

I went to a private school and was on half scholarship, I can't imagine how some of my fellow graduates are dealing with the debt now. I'd poo my pants if I were in their shoes. I know that not everyone has the opportunity to live at home during these times, but I'd highly recommend never going into debt.

As for never going into debt, pay for a cheap state school, dont go till you get scholarships, save up and go semester by semester....
you dont need to go to an expensive school if you have a passion and drive, your education is def what you make of it.

"The point I am trying to make is that higher education is worth the money to some people and not to other. To me it is worth it, and a lot of people I know would agree. Not everyone of course, but that’s ok."

I agree. There is nothing like learning more. Having said that, you need to weigh the cost versus value here. The extra two years may just put you over the breaking point especially if it is a top notch school that costs $30,000/year. Unless you haven't heard, architects don't make a lot of money. You may end up paying that loan back over 10-15 years and maybe more. Trust me, if you graduate at 25 and haven't paid off your loan at 40, it can screw up your personal life big time.

I am just asking that people start to do the math. Which is very rare when talking to young people in school who generally don't look past next week.

I went to Michigan over Penn, SciArc and other choices. Since my parents live there I qualified for in-state, even though I went to undergrad in Indiana and interned in California for over a year. It is one the most, if not the most, expensive state school. I also attended because of the generous graduate research and large endowment (thank you Mr. Taubman). I was fortunate to get a big scholarship my second year making tuition nearly free. Also for me, my MArch was 2 years, as opposed to 2.5-3.5 for my other options. All that said, I got a great education with miniscule dept.

Everyone is different, but I am so happy to spend my money on other investments, including opening up an architecture shop someday..

I recently entered the new IBR payment plan.

IBR

I am one of those over 100k$ in student loans, but my monthly payment is only 360$ right now based on my income.

$100k in students loans for an architect seems like suicide to me.

In the UK architecture has been designated as the most "elitist" profession in terms of ratio "cost of studies / medium salary".

98k which includes 25k from undergrad. So, I have about 70k in Grad...went to a state school, but I took out a loan to go to school in Vienna for a year...freakin expensive. I didn't go to Yale, nor did I apply there, but I can spell - definitely.

have over 100k in debt, I can't really pay right now, cuz I lost my job, and am unemployed for over a year, they don't care, they still request the monthly $1500 payments... :(

I decided not to pay at all, and if more people will not pay, then maybe the loan companies will collapse and go bankrupt, or at least give us some relief when we are unemployed...

by selling my organs.

i'm going to go out on a limb and claim that NO M.Arch degree is worth $100k+ in debt.

zen maker, sounds like YOU are the one who went bankrupt. :/

If zen is bankrupt, its a long shot his student loans will be forgiven in court. Law changed a few years ago that states unless you can show that your education loan payment is an "undue hardship", your student loans are ineligible for cancellation in bankruptcy.

Its hard to prove "undue hardship" unless your physically unable to work, and if the judge has read that article last month about the blind architect, I think you'll still be paying.