Have you considered delaying the promise to help him out in better economic times?

State School Undergrad, better name later after he's proven himself?

Yes, we're going back and forth. Thing is, we would be able to make Pratt work, for now, with loans.

I know he was really inspired when he came home from Broolyn last summer...and he's not one to show excitment...at least not to me mom. I took it as a good sign.

I think it's just the principal of that huge sum of money...at any time, that is what's bothering me.

I would generally say in these conditions, do the state school undergrad and get the better name in grad school after graduation and maybe 1-2 years of work experience. Grad school debt will be more palatable at 1.5-2 years, and he will be much more focused and cognizant of what he wants to focus on in the field.

When I was a senior in high school I was accepted at two arch. schools, which would have cost my family $150K to $175K for five years. Instead of enrolling in arch. school I attended a state school in New York, but after two years I transferred into a BArch program, where I was able to receive scholarships, financial aid, etc.

The point is that a BArch is a commitment, both in terms of time and money. The two years that I spent in state school did two things; first, it ensured that I wanted to pursue an architecture degree and second, it delayed the financial commitment that my parents and I had to make.

It ended up taking six years to get my BArch, but I was able to go to a better arch. school and the financial commitment for the six years was equivalent to or a little less than if I had attended arch. school straight out of high school. Not to mention it gave me a chance to take liberal arts classes, which I would have never gotten the opportunity to if I had committed to arch. school straight out of high school.

I wonder why these are your (his) only two options.

Sorry, you would be fucking nuts to pay 250,000 bucks for an education in architecture.

Regardless of where your kid goes to school he will have an "amazing" experience... If he makes it through his B.arch (most don't) he can hit the road running with all your cash in hand...NC State is a good school and you can put that money to better uses...

Some art historian at UNLV once said that if you think you want to go art school, dont - just take your 50+k and throw yourself a party in NYC, fuck someone important and start making art...its a better use of your money...

well, architecture school is something like that. The point is, that money could be used in so many more remarkable ways...sending your kid through a massively expensive private school education might hinder his growth more than it helps (many many young students need to transfer after their first year for many reasons (usually drug addiction and homesickness) and still bring home 100k in debt after the first year!! I went to UoTennessee and knew so many who started at Pratt, Miami, Penn, etc. who ultimately "had" to come home and finished their BARCH at UT - they have 130k-ish in debt whereas I had 10k total)...many of the Ivy Leaguers/private schooled I now work with had a very narrow college experience and didn't freely explore themselves or their options as a result of the incurred cost and debt...and in terms of opportunities...I now work mostly with Ivy Leaguers in San Francisco...Its not like he'll get screwed over at state school and he may have more options than others...

If it were my kid and my money.. I would buy him a house near NC State and get him fixing it up while at school...teach him the basics of construction and real estate, etc...Also, sign him up for whatever international study opportunities are available and encourage him to take on exciting summer work...

Sorry for ranting...all I hear/see on this site is shit about MARCHs and "Top Schools" and "Stararchitects" from people who are likely to have "always wanted to be architects"...its just not the whole picture...

In response to gardenx: ...consider Pratt's motivations along side yours...certain private schools have looser admittance standards than state schools...they need your money.

Great question. I was in a similiar situation (kinda) a couple of years ago. I got into GATech for undergrad arch and Clemson for undergrad arch. Im from SC and could go to clemson for pretty much free (state scholarships etc) or pay 4 yrs at 25000 at tech (100k). As a freshman and new to arch i had no clue what to do. I went to Clemson and had amazing you faculty who inspired me to go on to grad school. Four years later I had my choice of grad schools at Columbia, UTexas, UCinci, and sci-ARC. Im currently in the xprogram at sci-ARC and am glad of my state undergrad back ground. Point being, it took me four years to really wrap my head around my future. sci-ARC ended up my first choice, a west coast school id never ehard of at 17yrs old. Pratt is amazing im sure, but there is life after a state school.
Also consider the difference between a barch and a 4 yr arch degree. Hope this helps!

Hi artmom, state school for SURE + whatever school for master's. I got my BFA in interior design from a veryvery private, "prestigious" interior design school in Manhattan. I loved my school while I was attending because the sheer small # of students they accpeted cut out all the non-serious students. Also, my school was one of the 2 schools in the entire world that solely dedicated its study in i.d. I'm just elaborating so that you can get the clear picture on how "private" this school was. I worked for 7 years at various NYC arch. firms, etc. 4 yrs. ago, I applied to a bunch of schools and got into 3 great schools, one of them being top 10 school. I turned them all down cause I was too chicken to incur approximately 150,000 (including living costs, the whole thing, etc.). Fast forward to now, I am going back for my master's at my state school because I have NO choice right now since my hubby is at med. school and incurring more debt would be irresponsible - at least that's how I see it. This is my background.

In retrospect, I in many ways regret having gone to a private school for undergrad studies because I didn't have any other outlet nor did I get to mingle w/kids from other backgrounds, have the great opportunity to cross over to another dept. and minor in something, etc. and in many ways, limited my experiences both academic and personally in a very single faceted way.....and in retrospect, I also feel it in my gut that when I turned down the 3 schools 4 yrs ago....the debt was in many ways an excuse for another big fear which was dedicating more of my studies at another private school, etc.

So, your kid will have many more chances/choices in life post-undergraduate studies. I also think some of the posters have valid points in that your kid may not even end up liking architecture. Not that there is a standard/logical order or anything but from my experiences...I really think given the choice, you should send your kid to a public for undergrad so that he has so much more exposure THEN go to a private, whether ivy or not, for grad.

Sorry for a long post or shall I say rambling, it's so late in the night, hope I made some sense?

As stated already, NC State should be the choice but not because you would be saving $250K. But because it has an excellent program. Granted, if he does want to attend there, let him incur the cost differential between the two programs and attend Pratt.

Through the years, I have met with many parents and their children about this important decision. Bottom line, you want to start the educational process of becoming an architect. By attending the in-state choice, you start that process and can pursue the private programs at the graduate level, but I will argue that there are many public programs just as good.

High cost does not always equal better.

Dr. Architecture
www.archcareers.org

Thanks to all of you for your insightful input. For gardenx, there were two other schools but he ruled them out first.

BTW I actually have an MArch degree...but got pregnant a year after grad school and whamo...the rest is history. (I.E. the son in question).

But in reality, the state school that I attended did not have much of a support system after graduation for internships, etc. Guess that's why I'm thinking a smaller private school might put him on the right road quicker.

I think people are crazy to enter the field of architecture AT ALL at this point in time. The job market is not going to recover any time soon, and I don't think there will ever be enough jobs to absorb all of the inexperienced graduates of architecture school...

So, if you have to take on debt to go ANYWHERE, don't do it. You'll have trouble paying it off.

good point lookout kid but i would say that for anyone trying to pursue a mba degree, small business, immigration law, and a slew of other fields. heck, i would say why go into architecture at all at any given time, considering the starting salary to the accumulated student debt ratio coming out of any m.arch program. but i think there is always a way to carve out your path if you're good and creative enough in figuring out how to exactly carve out a path for yourself in any given field. so to have the current climate hold you back from what you truly want to do would be taking a defeatist position imho. i think whatever you do, just do it responsibly :)

and go all out

stuntman!!!!! thats the most secure career in the world.

Hopefully it is on the rise. And it could be worse - he could want to be a fine arts major.

I'm beginning to think a career in architecture won't be a money maker at first, but more of a passion. Until architecture can pay the bills, there truly are investment opportunities in this market to supplement income that don't require hours a day - or even a month.

Architecture, like many careers, isn't lucrative directly out of college. A dental assistant I know hasn't gone to school and will be making more in her first year of work than I will in mine, however, with time, any college degree will pay off.

I gave up private school for undergrad to attend a state school, and couldn't be more content. I'll worry about contacts/job opportunities when I attend a more prestigious graduate school.

Speaking as a principal in a NYC firm who knows the Pratt program well, send your kid to NC State first. Yes, New York and Brooklyn are exciting places to visit, but living here as a student is a completely different story. (may I introduce you to your five roomates - and I do mean "room"? what is the G train? ever heard of Bushwick?)

Relative to his future, I'd rather hire someone with good solid training as an architect, who understands how to build and put things together, who then went back to grad school to further their own explorations in design. We see so many kids who just don't understand how difficult it is to design a good building. Think of your own experience - a master's program is when you really get to grow as a designer anyway. If he really wants come to Pratt, Columbia, Parsons, NJIT, etc, why not when he's 24 or 25 vs. 18 and more likely to appreciate what life in the big city is all about?

Better yet, attend NC State and come up to NYC for summer internships. Firms like mine would rather hire someone with very little experience for a short period of time over the summer anyway. Ideally, NC State would have a junior year internship where he could come up for a full year and get credits for working too. After he graduates, he'll be better equipped to find a job not just in NYC, but anywhere else *he* wants to.

OK, now let me throw this in to the mix...RPI.

He would have grants and scholarships over 5 years that equal the parent loans we'd be taking out. He would then have about 5K/yr in student loans+ about the cost of what it would be to attend/live/eat at NC State. I liked the idea, he wasn't crazy about the weather in upstate NY.

Another advantage to instate situations is that you dont have to work at some stupid distracting minimum wage job during school...you can focus solely on your studies and partying.

I agree with all of the above comments. I got into USC, UC Berkeley and Cal Poly SLO for my undergraduate degree and ended up choosing Cal Poly. First of all, it is considered a highly ranked program and secondly, it cost me $80,000 for the five years instead of $200,000. I have friends who graduated from USC and now have similar job titles. I think it's more worth it to attend an Ivy League for your Masters degree. I found that my education at Cal Poly was excellent and what you put into your education is what you get out of it. State schools still have plenty of resources and you get to interact with students from various backgrounds. RISD is a great school, I'm not sure if the cost is worth it. Good luck in making your college decision.

i think there's something to be said about having a true "college" experience while you can. having teams to root for while in school and as an alumnus, friends from other depts., having the option to study other electives/minor, having friends from various majors, having stimulating conversations outside of your area of study, just having different outlets, all the crucial elements that will help shape you in becoming the most well rounded person you can be while growing up to be an adult, etc.

again, the more i think about it as i "age", i truly regret going to a private school and having no choice but to go to my state school for my master's. private schools def. have an insular environment and i just don't think you're maxing out your opportunities and rather, selling yourself short by doing this too early, unless it's an ivy where it's run like a state school in terms of culture. unfortunately, pratt is not like this and being very familiar with the school, i really don't think their tuition is worth it for undergrad or grad. it's the same amount of $ as columbia. as a grad student, i would go to columbia in a heartbeat over pratt. i'm sorry, i'm just not a big fan. i think it's a great program for arch. and it would be a superb one if that was the only school standing in the vicinity but having columbia that set the tone for pratt, just a train ride away, i just don't think you're getting the real deal imho.

I vote Pratt... Pratt offers the rome program... this is irreplaceable! (Does UNC have that?) And their teachers, very well connected in NYC.

And it's in NY. Sometimes college is about getting away from mommy and surviving on your own. No betta place than B-K-L-Y-N! No amount of homecooked food could ever compare to the general hardening of character offered by muggers and homeless people riding side by side with you on the subway! It is ..irreplaceable. A gateway to the rest of the world!

However, if you envision him to become a non-wordly person, working only as an architect in NC, and never spreading his wings beyond your local community... then UNC is just fine. And he will become better connected in that community, with wealthy alumni, etc. and can go on to lead a relatively whole life (skipping that wonderful period meant to develop his identity!!!) and become a local business person. (i notice that setting up shop as your own architect depends on this kind of thing)

[Disclaimer: I did not go to pratt, i went to cornell...but i am a yankee]

Does anyone know how big freshman architecture class is at Pratt. I talked to an administrator there and he told me they accept 400 students for the freshman class. That can't be right. Maybe it's made up of both the Brooklyn and Manhatten campuses?

NC State accpeted 45 kids for the freshman architecture, 160 total for the College of Design.

So Charisma124 do you know if the Rome program is for all, or do they have to vie for slots to go? I looked on the Pratt website and couldn't get much info on it. NC State has a semester in Prague for their international study program.

Anybody can go to Rome. You don't have to fork out a quarter of million ducats for that. What's your background artmom? If you are worried about money you are probably a middle class person and your kid dreams of architectural greatness. If you want him to have a chance at fulfilling this dream. First, put him on a plane with a backpack and a sketchbook and have him travel around a bit. Then send him to a state school that offers a five year Arch degree that will allow him to get a license. Then with the money you have saved from these incredibly overpriced universities, comission him to build you a second home. Architects need patrons. Architects need access to building architecture. Don't be shortsighted and accept what has become the status quo. Look at the architects of note. Most of them started this way. a weekend home for mom and dad. If you are child of middle class trudgers, the chance to do this is slim at best and the so so blandness of this profession in general does not warrant that kind of cash outlay nor does it offer financial recompense to justify it.

He'll be on a plane in July with a backpack and a sketchbook for a three week trip to Europe. His dad is an NCAARB certified architect, and built the house that our family grew up in, so actually Liam does not have dreams of architectural greatness, just wants to follow in his dads footsteps. Thing is, his dad's path to architecture was a long one, and had many bumps in the road. As I said in an earlier post, my hope is his education will put him on the right road a little more quickly,

He's left the decision in my hands and is perfectly fine going to NC State.

All of your thoughts are great input...

Okay artmom, now you've got me really confused. The more I read your comments, I'm wondering which one of you is thinking more about their career. You say you want to put him on the right road a little more quickly, but what does that mean? You know there is no sure path to one's career, especially one as broad as architecture - talk to the graduating Pratt seniors who have few prospects as they enter the workforce. And what is wrong with learning to deal with bumps in the road? I know countless architects whose varied life experiences have refined their sense of design, raised their appreciation of their environment, and taught them to listen well and value the everyday, all requisite skills for this profession. If you want him to go to Pratt, fine, but let him go with full understanding of the consequences (it really is tough surviving NYC as a student, big debts when he graduates that will limit what he can do for ten years after, and a just okay undergrad program that is not as attractive to employers as others in the area, or the entire East Coast, since that's who he'll be competing with). And certainly not because of what you or his father did or did not accomplish. He's old enough now to understand all the issues that go into making this decision himself. It is just like design. Let him know all of the constraints, issues, comments and concerns and see how he plans the career he'll live in the rest of his life.

Okay artmom, now you've got me really confused. The more I read your comments, I'm wondering which one of you is thinking more about their career. You say you want to put him on the right road a little more quickly, but what does that mean? You know there is no sure path to one's career, especially one as broad as architecture - talk to the graduating Pratt seniors who have few prospects as they enter the workforce. And what is wrong with learning to deal with bumps in the road? I know countless architects whose varied life experiences have refined their sense of design, raised their appreciation of their environment, and taught them to listen well and value the everyday, all requisite skills for this profession. If you want him to go to Pratt, fine, but let him go with full understanding of the consequences (it really is tough surviving NYC as a student, big debts when he graduates that will limit what he can do for ten years after, and a just okay undergrad program that is not as attractive to employers as others in the area, or the entire East Coast, since that's who he'll be competing with). And certainly not because of what you or his father did or did not accomplish. He's old enough now to understand all the issues that go into making this decision himself. It is just like design. Let him know all of the constraints, issues, comments and concerns and see how he plans the career he'll live in the rest of his life.

This thread is weird*, Artmom, does Artson know you are on here asking advice?

He's left the decision in my hands and is perfectly fine going to NC State

Theres your answer.

If it was my son [and my sons are a decade or so off thinking about this kind of thing], and they wanted to follow my path into architecture, heres what my advice would be:

Whatever school you get into, make it your obsession to do the best you possibly can in your own way.

And secondly, look for opportunities to advance and/or make your education the best it can be. That might mean scholarships, cometitions, travel, transferring schools whatever.

I started ay one school, did well, transferred schools and countires, did better.

Any monkey can do an architecture degree.


*I question the authenticity of this thread.

Yep, artson knows but hasn't bothered to read to posts.

Also, you obviously know how much/little the average architect makes, and you are happy to saddle yourself and him [maybe] to the tune of a $1/4m for a name?

I's go NC State undergrad, and work my arse off with a great portfolio and set of experiences and try my hand in the Ivy league.

Personally, I think its far more satisfying to be going to a school on merit, rather than because I could afford it.

hey artmom, just out of curiosity, where did you get your m.arch from?

University of New Mexico many moons ago (like 1985). Before autocad was taught in studio. By the time I tried to get back to work after kids I was so far behind the curve...so I was supportive to my husband as he got his license and became proficient on the computer.

So when I said I'm hoping my son has opportunites that I didn't have I mean it.

Go Wolfpack!!!

My dad is a NCSU grad. He's a genius (an engineer, not an architect).

I love it when moms post here! My state school BArch was absolutely the best choice: far enough away from home to be "on my own", but able to go home every few weeks to do laundry and fill the trunk with food. And graduated with no debt.

Master's degree came from a small private highly regarded program. The degree means squat to any of my clients, but I had two years to pursue the aspects of architecture I loved - things I didn't know about until I was most of the way through undergrad.

State school. He won't miss out on anything and may discover new opportunities that appeal to him even more.

I'd add that there are state schools, and then there are state schools. Michigan, Berkley--and heck, even Illinois are certainly on a higher level than say, Rutgers. Granted, I don't think Rutgers has an architecture program, but you catch my drift.

I've only ever known one architect from NC State, and he actually had a pretty good career. But in Chicago, a degree from that school is a bit of a novelty. At interviews, I'm sure employers saw his experience first, and then saw that he had a somewhat reputable degree and said, "Somewhat reputable degree? Check!". Granted, I've seen principals at firms ooh and aah over Harvard and Princeton grads--but I don't think Pratt has the same cache.

hey lookout kid, you're right rutgers doesn't have an architecture school but new jersey institute of technology does. it's one of the only 2 schools in new jersey that are accredited with princeton being the other. also, it's is the biggest undergrad. arch. program in the east coast. it is also highly regarded and respected in the tri-state area, including nyc. if i were to go to another state, it probably would not mean much, however, top firms here have a lot of njit grads i have come to find out and they do quite well, along w/other grads including ivies as long as you prove that you are talented post school. but you're right, michigan, berkley and illinois def. do have excellent reputation nation wide. also sure, ivies don't have their reputation for nothing but there are principals out there even in these top firms that are non ivy grads and yes, even state school grads that hold principal positions (though it may be fewer than name school grads but they do exist commonly enough). but the point is, i really would stay away from generalizing schools you do not know much about.

I tend to think that the "mid-level" private schools are kind of a waste of money. If you're going to fork out extra tens of thousands of dollars each year, you might as well get the cache of a degree from Harvard, Columbia, and the like. Otherwise, I'm not sure it's worth the money without the "wham, I'm a GSD grad" impact. And of course, having a degree from a reputable ivy will help A LOT if you go into academia and need the academic credential to outshine your work experience.

weather?!? he knows he will be in studio all the time, right?

ha! i wish life was that simple as lookout kid sees. i think people end up in private schools that cost as much as ivies because they couldn't get into them. in such cases, pratt may not be a bad option as a grad student. however, if that ever happened to me and i had time hypothetically speaking....i would reapply to columbia the following year. if i wanted to stay in nyc and i got rejected again and pratt was my only choice? THEN i would seriously consider pratt but only in a case like that. pratt is just NOT worth 1/4 mill for a b.arch. it just isn't, trust me.

I seriously need to lay something straight---hitting the road to italy and looking at a few buildings while you're there is NOT the same thing as having a historian go on and on about it while you're sketching and writing notes, and then tested on it. I mean, the amount of stuff you can get out of a place depends on how much of it you're exposed to and what quality of exposure you have...

I cannot say that i would have gotten the same if my professors didnt drag me around italy to the best and some of the most remote sites that i would not have thought of... these programs are established, and these people know what they're doing. They are also consistently rated as the 'best' part of the entire academic BArch Experience ... at least at cornell, and i imagine it's the same at Pratt.

Newport..I'm curious why you believe that Columbia is an overall better choice then Pratt? I do understand the Ivy factor but beyond that can you give me specifics?
While both school share a fair amount of adjunct professors, the studio culture is different and their emphasis are different (At least in my opinion). Also I don't think just because Columbia and Pratt are in the same vacinity, (lets not also forget about Parsons).. its automatically argued that Columbia has the better program because its an Ivy..
While applying this year, I chose program that I felt I would have more to learned from. Columbia wasn't even on my list ( I have lived in NYC before and visited the school to get a better understanding)
I really like the program at Pratt and was intrigue with the one at Parsons...wouldn't it be more fair to advise people on what type of education they want rather on "for that amount of money I can go to an Ivy"?
in case you were wondering ..
Pratt - In
UPenn (the only Ivy I liked) - In
I'm still choosing to go to a private school over an Ivy for the cost :)

Art Mom,
I was just in Europe a few weeks ago, you might want to make sure you pack some cash in his bank account -- its harder to find a bank that will exchange cash these days and their commission is outrageous (in Amsterdam I exchange 400 dollar for 280 euro) and you get a better exchange if he just withdraw from from a debit card ( I think it was 1 euro to 1.3 dollar which was the rate I got in Milan). Considering the Euro is much stronger then the dollar, make sure he brings his school id, lots of great discount for under 26...If he is going to Rome, look up the Yellow hostel, its clean and very safe with free internet connection (useful from him to ask you to send more relief funds maybe ).. One of the tour guide that the hotel contract has a degree in Classic from the States, I felts I learned a lot more from him then walking around by myself in Rome.
Oh .. I hoped he chose the state school btw .. not only because it makes more sense economically right now .. but its easier to bounce back from a $5000 dollar mistake versus a $50000 mistake ...
Then send him for his Master at the more costly school..
(I lost a full tuition scholarship my second year of college after too much time spent partying and not enough time doing work .. but thats just me)

ZeroPulse thanks for the travel tips. They're flying in to Dublin and out of Amsterdam. Itinerary has not been developed past that. I think a debit card is going to be the key.

I'm reading all posts with gratitute, thanks for helping me think. It's weird to me that Pratt is getting slammed though, so 800 applicants were as nuts as us? I'm just not buying that. I believe it's a good program, and would be good for him. That's still not justification for the money....so....what. I don't know yet.

hey zeropulse, i never said just because a school is part of the ivy system, that it's automatically better. i only said i prefer columbia over pratt for the same price, comparing apple to apple context in terms of price. 'm speaking strictly from my own personal observations and experiences having gone through the nyc design school system - i never lived or have gone outside post high school besdes nyc, having most of my friends that have graduated from varous nyc schools, parsons, pratt, sva, fit, columbia and even ai. also, having worked with grads from those schools that hold various level position. again, apple to apple comparison i have witnessed. from my experiences, i have had parsons grad, yale grad, columbia grad, pratt grad all work for me. they were all straight out of m.arch. if i were to compare pratt and columbia there weren't thaat much noticeable difference except that in my personal experiences with them were that columbia grads seemed to have a more excelled conceptual vision, articulation, wrting and technological execution. and of course, my own experience may amount to a needle in a haysack, there are so many grads out there. however, in can nly contribute what i have experienced. neither knew how to really detail yet of course, this is somethng learned w/years.....also, i have columbia grad friends who teach/taught at pratt m.arch and i have heard frm their own mouths that the 2 are quite similar but w/pratt perhaps teaching more practical aspects of building/development but really not much difference in the overall scale of curriculmns/objectives, etc. i haven't met a pratt grad in my nyc arch. experiences both personally and professionally who have exceeded columbia grads in commissions either. i have some friends who were picked to be a part of the 13 ny emergnig architects to partake in the mongolia ordos 100. not that pratt grads don't receive impressive commissions, i believe they are fewer than columbians. now, i'm nt saygn taht's by merit alone where pratt grads are less talented, but the connections/contacts you will make, especially on an international scale seem to be superior....

speaking of internatnal, if you practice outside of us, lecture, teach, you will be treated much differently, wth more respect, get into mre doors much faster and hold their attention much longer. i know this sounds really trivial but once you are in that circle/world, believe me, it'll make a huge difference in your pursuit.
now, that's not to say pratt can't get you there, again i believe they have an excellent program as well but pls remember, i was merely talking from my own personal involvement in the apple to apple comparison between the 2 schools. these are just my opinions that some may agree w/, some may scoff at. even if they were both identical in the quality of education, i just think in the context of helping artson set up for his future which was sort of the ponit of this thread, that columbia will lay out the groundwork a little better, a longer road, it will make his life easier if you will, beyond the us boundaries...


fyi, i only applied to my state school, not even one ivy school if that proves my point in that ivy doesn't automatcally make a program better. and yes, all the programs are different, some polar opposites. it's all based n what you want to do but i think that applies more for m.arch since it's hard to foresee your whole entire future as an 18 yr. old.

Newport, thanks for your insight...I appreciate the clarification and additional insight. Also the way you articulate your argument. I do agree about the reputation aspect beyond the US boundary but I think that is looking very far beyond and also a large uncertainly he wants to work beyond the US border.
Perhaps its better to explain why I prefer Pratt and for what reasons.
Although Pratt and Columbia could be compared M.Arch to M.Arch, I still see the benefits of attending a school with other large and strong art and design program (esp with Industrial and Interior Design)
My BFA is in Interior Design from a state school and my family business is in furniture production so I have different hats for various obligation in my life. For various reason and not having the option of staying in school all my life, I chose to pursue an architecture master instead of an interior or industrial design one. I feel that attending the program at Pratt will allow me to take elective classes in those other design fields and also more opportunity to collaborate with other design students. Architecture is after all a collaborative career and I felt this was more emphasized in their studio culture. I have no dreams of becoming a starchitect nor working beyond the US border. I didn't want to be argumentative, I just want to give another set of opinion for students and other people researching the program reading this thread.

There's always so much ego massaging that goes into any discussion about schools on this forum. People need to admit that Ivy Leauge schools (a) do lend a certain pedigree to a job candidate, and (b) also create a some resentment. But if I'm going to pay Ivy Leauge prices for a degree, I want the actual Ivy Leauge pedigree (or something on that level like MIT or PsiArc or whatever). Otherwise I see it as sort of a waste of cash--but IF and ONLY IF a good state school opportunity is available as an alternative. Because let's face it, you can get a good or bad education at almost any school depending on what you put into it and the studios you select.

That said, I do not have an Ivy League degree.

BTW, I realize that my post makes it sound like I think a degree is purely a commodity in which you pay money to get a diploma, and this is really not how I view things. I'm only applying this to a situation where a good education is available at each alternative. If you really feel you can get a better education ANYWHERE, or just have fallen in love with a particular school or program, well then those things can't be quantified in dollars.

hey zeropulse, you weren't being argumentative at all! and you def. have valid points. yeah, arch. can lead you in so many different directions and seems like pratt is perfect for your objective. i just feel that in GENERAL, if you were to spend 1/4 million dollars, i would want the most "mileage". and you're right, not everyone dreams of practicing overseas, teaching, etc. but like you said, one never really knows what he/she would want to be doing in the decades to come. but imho, this gives me more reasons to go for an ivy if i were to ever spend 1/4 million on education, to purchase the most guarantee possible in opening more doors for my future endeavors, whatever they may be. maybe i'd want to teach in 10 yrs. though have no thoughts of it now?

plus, that's just an insane amount of money compared to the starting salary we'll be making. and i believe people who brush it off as "you live only once and so many people out there take loans and they're ok, this is how america works, and we'll worry about paying it off later" attitude, not so long term thinking disregard, financial misjudgments made by architects, the same short-sighted calculations our "founding" fathers of american architecture made (post chicago fire) is what got us into this starting salary to 150,000-200,000 debt (paying off $1,000 monthly payments on avg.) incredulous disproportion the first place. sorry, i just feel so strongly about this, really can't help it.

What is all the talk about Columbia? Columbia doesn't have an undergraduate architecture program, just graduate. Some of the negative comments about Pratt are from ten years ago.

i have an idea that costs the same:

1) send him to state school
2) buy him a house when he graduates

no debt, no mortgage, and every cent he makes goes into his pocket. he'll be more successful financially than a harvard GSD graduate.

architecture education is what you make of it. everyone gets enamored with the names and credentials, but unless you want to be a professor, architecture firms don't pay you more for going to a big name school because the reality is that graduates know absolutely nothing about the practice. if he's really into architecture he can go to graduate school.

i think setting your child up for a debt-free adult life is one of the best things a parent can do.

and also, based on other things from this thread:

1) if he doesn't want to go to pratt because he can't deal with NY weather, he shouldn't be going to pratt.

2) if he really doesn't have a preference between the two schools, he shouldn't be going to pratt.

i'm starting to wonder whether its about his credentials or your credentials. he's going to be in debt forever with pratt, so if the distinction between the two isn't that important to him then it's probably not worth sacrificing financial freedom. case in point: you're on this site asking questions, not him.

a lot of people here are saying that he's at the age where he needs to decide what he wants to do in life-- i disagree. i'll be graduating college in a few months and have worked a bit, and i can honestly tell you that when i graduated high school, i (as well as most of my peers) had no concept of what the real world actually is, nor did i really know what i wanted. architecture to me four years ago is completely different than what it is to me now, and me being content with it is really only dumb luck.

you are his mother and he trusts your judgement. you've guided him to do the right things his entire life, and while he may have vague preferences on what he wants to do with his life, he really has no clue. he'll have a clue when he's living in an apartment living paycheck to paycheck like most in-debt architects.

This thread is nearly two years old... I'm sure they've made their decision by now.

haha i didn't even notice, i just saw it was one of the active ones