Bears and Bears and Trojans, OH MY!

This has been discussed many times in the forum before. I'd suggest doing a search (with the Archinect search tool + keywords), reading up a bit, and then if you still can't find what you're looking for, come back here.

If you finish up your 5 year professional degree.. you can always go for a 1 year post grad

I think you are confusing grad and undergrad programs. Make sure you read the old threads, your assumptions dont' sync with most people's.

I didn't go to either USC or Berkely, but have worked with a lot of people that have gone to either school.

Personally, I think you will get a better overall education at Berkeley and would go there. In my mind it is worth an additional year of school to get a masters degree because topics are treated on a more advanced level and often times with better access to cad cam facilities etc. You will also be able to teach at a university with an MArch. You may not be interested in that now, but there are a ton of architects with their own small practices that also teach partially because they enjoy it, but partially as a way to mitigate the fluctuations of the market.


HOWEVER, there are risks associated with the 4+2 approach that you need to be aware of. Firstly, you will not earn much more with a masters degree. Secondly, your post was written sounding like you assume for sure that you will be admitted to Berkeley for grad school. The Berkeley MArch I program is very difficult to get into. Call their graduate admissions department asn ask what percentage of Berkeley undergrads that studied architecture there get in. WHen you do the 4+2 approach you take the risk that you don't get into a grad school you're thrilled about. It's also true that you can also apply for an MARch II after going to SC. The time to get a masters with either option is very similar, but it's nice not to be obligated to get one. Correct me if I'm wrong you guys, but I think it's more difficult to get into a good MARch II program than a good March I program, so that's something else to think about.

There was a long thread about USC awhile ago that discussed whether the school had a conservative design approach or not, and you should read it. People argued both sides.

Plus, you may not be guaranteed advanced standing at another institution. Also ask Berkeley, how many students admitted fromt heir undergrad program received advanced standing. Ask them how many studios you will have to take, and make sure you adhere to that. with most 4 year programs they give you more flexibility with the number of studios you take so that you can explore other disciplines related to architecture. I knew some people in grad school that went to Berkeley for college and got advanced standing and others that didn't.


ANother thing to note, is that USC is more of a regional degree. WHat I mean by that, is if you ever decide to move outside of CA people don't have much knowledge of SC and don't necessarily think of it with the same regard is CAL. If you plan to stay in the LA area then there will be herds of SC grads all over.

FInally, USC and Berkeley have very different cultures outside of their architecture departments. It's true you might spend most of your time with your studio buddies, but you will still be a part of the larger campus as a whole. Only you can say which atmosphere suits you better. If you decide at some point that you want to change majors consider whether you will still be happy at the school you chose or if you would end up transferring. Both places are big schools though and I am sure you will be able to find your niche at either place.

Visit both campuses. See if you can stay with a student and attend actual architecture classes. Check out the resources at SC--do they have laser cutters, 3D printers, milling machines...etc. You may not need that stuff your first few years, but it would be an advantageous to have access rapid protyping facilities in your more advanced studios. ALso, make sure that as an undergrad at Berkeley you will have access to all the grad school facilities and see if you will be eligible to take grad level courses.

i'm little confused, you got into undergrad right? if you assume that you can get into cal grad right after undergrad, I am letting you know that CAL doesn't accept many cal undergrads. well, I got rejected this year... i wish you luck 4 yrs later if you decide to come here.
One more thing, it might become 4+3, if you get into M.Arch programs in other schools.

Though i am a cal graduate and am very happy with my education, i have to repeat what sponge just said - visit both campuses and you decide. 5yrs and 4 yrs programs are very different. I believe Cal is theory focused program and won't teach you much of technical knowledge you can learn from B.arch programs. Some Arch firms in bay area prefer students from Cal Poly San Luis Obispo since they are better equipped for work. Cal provides good opportunities to take different design studios (4 mandatory studios) and take some graduate school seminars. There are some advanced structure and cad/cam courses open to undergrads as well. Cal does have really good library with huge, broad selections. CED library was the best thing I liked about Cal.

if you plan to visit Cal, you can always sneak into large classes held in lecture hall 112. Doors are open all the time and no one will care.
visit studios on 6-9th floors as well.

Also CAL is known for sustainability, if you think you might get into that. YOu will also have to take some prerequisite classes to apply to an MArch I program if you decide to go 4+2--like Physics and Calculus. If you are weak in math science you could ask top programs whether they would frown on you taking those over the summer at a community college. FOr example a med school woulnd't like an applicant that wimped out and took orgo at a jr college. Your grades will be very important to get into grad school though.

It;s true that you will have better technical skills at the end of 5 years in a 5 year program since you will take studio EVERY semester and lots of detailing type classes. I had a 4+2 education and picking things up like building code or detailing for water tightness has not been easy. YOu can't depend on your internship to necessarily teach you these things either....you will have to take responsibility for learning these things on your own unless you are lucky. SOme firms are nuturing, other places run like a business and expect you to know these things and judge the quality of their employess not by how well they design but by their knowledge of detailing, code etc.

That said the Berkeley people I have interacted with have been much better designers than the SC grads but maybe that is just coincidence. If you went to SC for undergrad I would actually still suggest grad school (at some place with a polar opposite reputation)to gain exposure to other methods of design. EIther that or expose yourself to different attitudes through where you intern. I would not for example, go to SC and intern for a corporate firm if you can help it.

Wow!
Thanks for all the thoughtful advices!
I wasn't assuming I would get into CAL for graduate school. I was aiming also for other graduate schools that may be a little bit less reputed than CAL. CAL and Harvard would be ideal, but now that I have read all the advices word by word, I am not confident that I would even get into any graduate school.

What would be a safe GPA that will get me into OKAY graduate schools such as Michigan(?)...?
I immigrated to U.S. five years ago, so English is my biggest weakness. I read and write much slower than most other students that will go to CAL. I know that for a fact.

I might be better off graduating from USC, which is much easier to earn a higher GPA than Berkeley. Am I right?

I have not mentioned, but I also got into Calpoly SLO's architecture program. I did not consider it as one of my options just because I hate the environment(the city), and I know that I still have not completely adapted to pure American culture, which I will only be surrounded by for the five years(I still need my buddies who are from similar background).

As of right now, I think that USC is a better option for me since I am not confident to get into a legitimate graduate school after graduating from CAL.
I am curious if Calpoly would be really that worthy to ignore my reasons I listed above.

How much more favorably does the architectural firms view Calpoly graduates to USC graduates?

Or is hiring more dependent upon your portfolio and the interview itself?

they don't view SLO grads more favorably then SC grads, unless they're an engineering firm or based in the central valley. SLO is more technical than SC is, and I've heard plenty of people around here bitching about how technical and professional SC is. Portfolio & Interviews will always be more important than where you went to school, but the fact is that SC opens a lot of doors, especially on the west coast. Even across the country if you can find other SC grads (which is pretty common in the larger cities, just obviously not as many as you'll find in LA) they are usually happy to lend a hand or at least give solid advice to other Trojans, purely out of loyalty to the school. And I would say your reasons for discounting SLO are totally legitimate. That's not to say that nobody should go there or that it's automatically a bad school because of its location, I know plenty of great people who went there, but if that's how you feel then it's totally valid.

I would NOT assume that it would be easier to get a better GPA at SC though... I'm not really sure where that assumption is coming from at all actually. When I was there just a few years ago, architecture students had some of the lowest GPAs on campus, because studios were so demanding that we kind of sucked at our other classes--not from being less intelligent than people in other majors, but from having less time and energy to put into them. That can drag a GPA down really quickly, but there are a lot more important things than GPA.

As for your confidence about getting into grad school, you just can't know something like that yet. You just have to make the decision about where you think you'll do the best (and things like city and culture can definitely be factors in that: a happy student is a better student usually), and trust that with hard work you'll come out a good enough designer to make it to the next level. I wouldn't worry about things like that now, and feel secure in the fact that both schools you are looking at are reputable enough that it's unlikely that a grad school would count anything against you for having gone there.

Thank you rationalist... you are right!
I just heard repeatedly from people that UCLA and UCB are overally harder to get a good GPA than private schools. They said UCs have more students per class, which lead to that much more competition...
I think I will go to Berkeley. I don't think its prestige can be ignored...
I also got into Pratt, but I heard art schools lack practicality.

Anyways, I will probably choose Berkeley...!
Thank you all very much for all the help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!