What's everyone doing for Thanksgiving? That is, if you're in the U.S.


Brunch, buffet style, with the extended family.  Buffet is the only way to go, to me. 

I don't like those limited brunches with a few slices of turkey, Eggs Benedict ,and some roasted potatoes.  I don't want to leave hungry.

I think the Canucks celebrate Thanksgiving on the first Monday in October, so feel free to share what you did.

Nov 18, 13 10:32 pm

My Canadian family did celebrate Thanksgiving already. As for the brunch think, i love brunch but for Thanksgiving - what .... i just don't know.

I can't wait to eat all the fixins, sides, pie dressing yum yum. Will be partaking in the great American roadtrip extravaganza this year. Be a first for me as an adult.

Nov 18, 13 11:08 pm
chatter of clouds

"Thanksgiving"- a National Day of Mourning

an editorial by Publisher/Editor - Terri J Andrews

Never before in the history of America has a subset of this country's population been so misrepresented, lied about, and viciously condemned and criticized than the Native American Indians. Our own history books present a censored and false past that glorifies the "proud, pure and righteous" settlers, while stereotyping the original inhabitants as wild savages in war bonnets, running through the forest looking for food and scalping innocent children and women.

Take a look through a child's history book and you will often note an image of the pilgrims, colonists and pioneers that include log cabins, the pursuit of religious freedom and a strong sense of community. Now look for references to the Native peoples - words such as "primitive", "massacre", "Earth Gods" and "religious rituals" fill those same pages. Often times, paintings of the Native Indians hiding behind trees with tomahawks, watching the unsuspecting Europeans, are wrongly depicted to children.

This is a common thread woven through the fabric of American history - a lie that ties together a past built on stolen tradition and absent information retold in books authored by non-Native Americans.

The Thanksgiving holiday is a perfect example of censorship and the rewriting of truth. A portrait painted of the friendly Indians and the openhearted pilgrims coming together to feast after a long, sorry winter is accepted and tolerated by the American community. But this portrait is not correct. The story is much deeper than that; so much deeper that the Native American Indian community calls this day - The National Day of Mourning - and stages rallies to protest the holiday. Their reasons are valid. The true story of Thanksgiving is not something a country should be proud of.

Pilgrims and the Pure Truth

The Pilgrims of New England, who came to this country in 1620, were not simple refugees from England fighting against oppression and religious discrimination. They were political revolutionaries and part of the Puritan movement, which was considered objectionable and unorthodox by the King of the Church of England. They were outcasts in their own country, plotting to take over the government, causing some of the settlers to become fugitives in their own country.

These Puritan Pilgrims saw themselves as the "chosen elect", from the Bibles’ Book of Revelations and traveled to America to build "The Kingdom of God", also from Revelations. Strict with the scripture, they considered an enemy of anyone who did not follow suit. These beliefs were eventually transmitted to the other colonists, and the Puritan belief system quickly spread across the New England area.

Plymouth Rock of 1620 - Myth or Fact?

This is from an account of the Pilgrims landing -from the book The American Tradition. Is it myth or factual?

" After some exploring, the Pilgrims chose the land around Plymouth Harbor for their settlement. Unfortunately, they arrived in December and were not prepared for the New England weather. However, they were aided by friendly Indians, who gave them food and showed them how to grow corn. When warm weather came, the colonists planted, fished, hunted and prepared themselves for the next winter. After harvesting their first crop, they and their Indian friends celebrated the first Thanksgiving."

Answer - BOTH! The American Tradition account is a mix of myth and fact. Here’s why:


1. Yes, the "Pilgrims" did come to America in 1620.

2. Yes they were inapt to care for themselves due to the harshness of the winter and their lack of stored food and supplies.

3. Yes, they did have a "feast".


1. They were NOT met by "friendly" Indians who waved them in from the banks or welcomed their arrival. The Native people did not trust the whites, having encountered such foreigners before and suffering severe consequences. The Natives took pity on the settlers and only a (very) few Native Americans were actually "friendly" to the newcomers.

2. The Native community did not help the colonists because of a deep friendship, rather it was a custom of their culture and religion to help those who were in need.

3. The two groups did NOT come together to celebrate the harvest, as friends, and rejoice in the "first" Thanksgiving. They were meeting to discuss land rights.

4. Lastly, it was NOT the first Thanksgiving. An Autumnal harvest and banquet were a tradition of the Native people - a celebration that was a part of their culture for centuries.

The REAL story of the "first" Thanksgiving

In December of 1620 a splinter group of England's Puritan movement set anchor on American soil, a land already inhabited by the Wampanoag Indians. Having been unprepared for the bitter cold weather, and arriving too late to grow an adequate food supply, nearly half of the 100 settlers did not survive the winter.

On March 16th, 1621, a Native Indian named Samoset met the Englishmen for the first time. Samoset spoke excellent English, as did Squanto, another bilingual Patuxet who would serve as interpreter between the colonist and the Wampanoag Indians, who, lead by Chief Massasoit, were dressed as fierce warriors and outnumbered the settlers.

The Wampanoag already had a long history with the white man. For 100 years prior to the Pilgrim landing, they had encounters with European fishermen, as well as those who worked for slave traders. They had witnessed their communities being raided and their people stolen to be sold into slavery. They did not trust the newcomers.

But Squanto was an exception. He had lived with the British, after being captured by an earlier sailing vessel. He had a deep fondness for the Europeans - particularly that for a British Explorer named John Weymouth, who treated Squanto like a son.

Chief Massasoit and Samoset arrived at the colony with over 60 men, plus Squanto, who acted as a mediator between the two parties. Squanto was successful at making a peaceful agreement, though it is most likely that there was a great deal of friction between the Native community and the colonists. The Englishmen felt that the Native peoples were instruments of the devil because of their spiritual beliefs and trusted only the Christian-baptized Squanto. The Native people were already non-trusting of the white man, except for Squanto, who looked at the Europeans as being of "Johns People."

It was Squanto who then moved to the English colony and taught them to hunt, trap, fish and to cultivate their own crops. He educated them on natural medicine and living off the land. A beloved friend of the Pilgrims, for if it wasn’t for him, they would not if survived. The Puritian Pilgrims thought of him as an Instrument of God.

Several months later the Wampanoag and the Pilgrims decided to meet again to negotiate a land treaty needed by the settlers. They hoped to secure land to build the Plymouth Plantation for the Pilgrims. The Native people agreed to meet for a 3-day negotiation "conference". As part of the Wampanoag custom - or perhaps out of a sense of charity towards the host - the Native community agreed to bring most of the food for the event.

The peace and land negotiations were successful and the Pilgrims acquired the rights of land for their people.

In 1622 propaganda started to circulate about this "First Thanksgiving". Mourts Relation, a book written to publicize the so-called "wonderfulness" of Plymouth, told of the meeting as a friendly feast with the Natives. The situation was glamorized by the Pilgrims, possibly in an effort to encourage more Puritans to settle in their area. By stating that the Native community was warm and open-armed, the newcomers would be more likely to feel secure in their journey to New England.

The sad, sad truth (what happened next)

What started as a hope for peace between the settlers and the Wampanoag, ended in the most sad and tragic way. The Pilgrims, once few in number, had now grown to well over 40,000 and the Native American strength had weakened to less than 3,000. By 1675, one generation later, tension had grown between the Europeans and the Native Indians. The Wampanoag called in reinforcements from other surrounding tribes.

Metacomet, heir and son of Chief Massasoit, became Chief of the Wampanoag Nation. The English, who referred to Metacomet as King Phillip, started a war between the two parties when they unjustly tried and convicted three innocent Wampanoags of murdering an Englishman, John Sassamon, even though it was well know and accepted that Sassamon’s death was truthfully caused by an accidental fall in a frozen pond.

Metacomet, furious and in despair, sought revenge for the deaths of his tribesmen by declaring war. The settlers killed another Native man, hence settling off the beginning of what is now known as "King Phillips War." Many Native communities throughout Massachusetts and Connecticut rallied with the Wampanoags, but the power of the English was overpowering. Metacomet moved many of his people to New York. Sadly, his wife and 9-year-old son were captured and sold into slavery. Brokenhearted, he returned to his homeland - and soon killed. His death ends the Kings Phillips War and the remaining Wampanoags, and their allies, were either killed or deported as slaves for thirty shillings each. This slave trade was so successful that several Puritan ship owners began a slave-trading business by raiding the coast for Native American Indians and trading them for black slaves of Africa. The black slaves were then sold to colonists in the south. Hence, the Pilgrims were one of the founders of the American-based slave trading industry.

Thanksgiving Today

For many Native American Indians of present day, the traditional "Thanksgiving" holiday is not recognized as the Pilgrim/Indian day popularized in children’s history books; rather it is a day of sorrow and shame. Sorrow for the fallen lives of those who were lost so long ago, and shame for living in a country who honors people who used religion and self-righteousness to condone murder, treachery and slavery.

For the many in the Native community, "Thanksgiving" is a day to reflect on what has happened (past and present); to pray to the Creator that more people will know of the truth and show respect towards the fallen culture; to fast the body; to protest the commercialization of Thanksgiving; to share their time with the less fortunate in soup kitchens or shelters; and some take part in a family meal, honoring the spirit of Chief Massasoit and his initial charity and intentions of the Wampanoag Indians — who first came to initiate a peace agreement between them and the newcomers.

Celebrating the spirit of the holiday - without the propaganda that is attached, is a respectful way to share the day with the Native American people. Understanding the true historical significance of their contributions to the day, as well as what the consequences of their efforts led to be, is even more important. Without the assistance of Squanto, and the agreement for peace made between the two cultures, I find it unlikely that the settlers would have lived so well or even lived at all.

The Native people died so that the colony could flourish. They need to be remembered, respected and mourned. With them - the Native forefathers - is a much better place to lay your fondness and your thanks.

It is with their spirit of generosity and charity that you should place your foundation for a true and honest "Thanksgiving."

Nov 18, 13 11:27 pm
chatter of clouds

Well I hope you had fun giving thanks for an usurped land and for murdered and displaced innocents. I hope your blood red cranberry sauce went nicely with your meat. 

Nov 18, 13 11:30 pm

You can be so dour, t a m m u z.  We all know this shit went down, just like Christopher Columbus certainly did not have a halo, even though he is buried in Seville's monstrous cathedral.  We all know this, and the not so glorious parts of the story.

Perhaps some of us are just appreciative of being able to get together with family and friends and enjoy a filling and tasty meal.  Perhaps some of us want to give thanks for our ancestors making a safe crossing of an ocean to get here with some change in their pockets, a few words of English, and a willingness to roll up their sleeves.

Why don't you educate us on the specifics of Canada's October Thanksgiving, what it stands for, and why it's in October, since it seems that the last time you disclosed a location, you were in or around Ottawa?  Also, since you equate cranberries with blood, can I extrapolate further and think that you equate pumpkin pie with congealed diarrhea?  Give it a rest.

Hey, the border to the States is a stone's throw from you, from either Ottawa or Montreal.  I'm sure some tacky casino near the border or Niagara Falls is doing a buffet, with turkey and cranberry sauce.  And the Canadian dollar is still relatively strong vis a vis our currency.

Nov 19, 13 12:14 am
chatter of clouds

you should instate  thanksgiving as a day of mourning not as a day of celebration.   knowing that  "that shit went down"  only goes further to underline your callousness. how are you call it "shit" anyway? a holocaust was committed and you give thanks for it...and your defense is "i know that shit went down"? perhaps we should have a "Hopegiving" day, wishing that what happened before happens to you and yours as well. 

For native americans, this is still a shock. they are still living the aftereffects. 

Nov 19, 13 12:26 am

Anyone else want to share something positive about THEIR Thanksgiving plans, other than a history lesson?

Nov 19, 13 1:57 am

I have to side with tammuz here... no one celebrates the holocaust!?

Nov 19, 13 2:08 am

My sister-in-law will be cooking, she is Vietnamese American so we will have egg rolls with our turkey. I will bring the cranberries. 

Nov 19, 13 6:18 am

Stuffing a turkey into an oven could be made into a pretty good metaphor for the holocaust. Where was tammy on Columbus Day? Pretty much all of human history is a holocaust.

DeTwan, I don't know anyone who celebrates the holocaust. Is there some kind of special ceremony?

I prefer to take the holiday literally and give "thanks" to my friends and family.

Nov 19, 13 8:51 am

I'm pretty sure my ancestors were poor farmers "in the old country" during this human rights violation. Therefore I will continue to celebrate Thanksgiving, enjoy time with family and watch football.  

For all of the hate that tammuz spreads you would think he would choose to live somewhere else.

Nov 19, 13 9:05 am
chatter of clouds

In 1637 near present day  Groton, Connecticut, over 700 men, women and children of the Pequot Tribe had gathered for their annual Green Corn Festival which is our Thanksgiving celebration. In the predawn hours the sleeping Indians were surrounded by English and Dutch mercenaries who ordered them to come outside.  Those who came out were shot or clubbed to death while the terrified women and children who huddled inside the longhouse were burned alive. The next day the governor of the Massachusetts Bay Colony declared "A Day Of Thanksgiving" because 700 unarmed men, women and children had been murdered.

Nov 19, 13 9:31 am
chatter of clouds

I'm not doing this out of hate. You read it that way because you're predisposed to but I wish to remind you what the roots of your celebration is. and to bring it up nonetheless, whie your lips are smeared with blood red sauce.

Nov 19, 13 9:32 am

hey tammuz, why don't you add some smiths lyrics to the mix also:

"And the flesh you so fancifully fry
Is not succulent, tasty or kind
It's death for no reason
And death for no reason is MURDER"

haters gonna hate!

Nov 19, 13 9:45 am

"Never before in the history of America has a subset of this country's population been so misrepresented, lied about, and viciously condemned and criticized than the Native American Indians."

Oh goodness, this statement is so wrong.  Native american indians are not a subset of the country's population.  They are a vestigal vermin race from the time before the USA's enlighment of consumerist apocalyse.

Really, it would probably be fort the best if the remaining indians could be removed so that the white people can properly enjoy their celebration in peace.  God bless the New Atlantis, er, um, America!!!

Nov 19, 13 10:02 am


Well, you have a point.  The native Americans are the real Americans, and WASPs are the fake ones.  Just kidding.  However, the prototypical sandy haired, blue eyed Nordic-Anglo-Germanic type is what the world considers an American.  Even before I was mature enough to identify this phenomenon, I never identified as American, and still don't, but add that I was born here, in the U.S.

Back to food.  At the brunch, there will be:

carved turkey, baked fish, others meats and poultry, a vast assortment of salads, many side dishes such as potatoes, vegetables, and casserole type items, and an array of desserts.

I found out that the mid-week lunch buffet at Harrah's in NOLA is $15.99, so I'm waiting for someone to "unsell" me on that place.  Cafe Amelie is NOT cheap.  Cozy and romantic?  Yes.  Nicely priced?  No.

More food, less history ...

Nov 19, 13 11:39 am
chatter of clouds

the american pilgrim forefathers were no better than the wahabi religious terrorists/ fanatics who take other people's belongings by reciting some koranic verses and then chopping some heads off. The purital pilgrim forefathers recited this before plundering and killing:

Psalms 2:8. “Ask of me, and I shall give thee, the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.”

in celebrating your thanksgiving, you are celebrating a genocide that has not been properly addressed yet and whose victims remain uncompensated. This should be a day of shame not of thanksgiving.

Nov 19, 13 12:19 pm
Non Sequitur

This guy said it best:

Nov 19, 13 12:35 pm
chatter of clouds

and need I add that they were also similar to the zionists taking over palestine? wasn't America a precedent New Israel and weren't the pilgrims and zionisits of the same fundamentalist purtinist ilk viewing the locals as heathen Canaanites to be killed, expelled and subjugated? the same with the so called Afrikaans who looked upon africans as savage black canaanites to be subjugated.

the birth of the US was baptized with the death and displacement of an incredible number of people. You give thanks to that? you now cry with mandela, you cry with the jews for their holocaust...because you have been trained to do so, it has been allowed for you to do so, in fact, it has been sensationalized as subject matter.....but are you so blind to your own origins and roots? you need someone else to craft you a sensationalist hollywood movie you can cry to?

Nov 19, 13 12:38 pm

Hey t a m m u z, I've been called out for a hijacking or two, but this has turned into monopolizing.

At this point, why don't you, and your bleeding heart, just shut up?

Nov 19, 13 1:02 pm

t ma m uz is an ignorant ass.  Muslims, jews & christians are all abrahmic constructs of the elite secret sociteies that have manipulated much of the world fo thousands of years.  

Getting worked up over a past genocide is pointless given the plan of these elite secret socieites is to eliminate 90% of the world's population.  The fact that any of you are still alvie is reason enough to be thankful.

Nov 19, 13 1:15 pm


I know it fits your preferred narrative about how horrible white people are, but your historic revisionism about the indians is laughable. Let's see what Teddy Roosevelt, who did very much to try and improve the lot of Native Americans during his tenure as President, has to say about these noble natives:

"The most vicious cowboy has more moral principle than the average Indian. Turn three hundred low families of New York into New Jersey, support them for fifty years in vicious idleness, and you will have have some idea of what the Indians are. Reckless, revengeful, fiendishly cruel, they rob and murder, not the cowboys, who can take care of themselves, but the defenseless, lone settlers on the plains."

Why would Roosevelt say something like that? Personal experience. Roosevelt spent a lot of time dealing with the natives on the frontier during his whole life. In fact, prior to the PC revisionism about the Indians which began in the 1970s and tried to make them out as peaceful saints of nature, we had a much more balanced and accurate understanding of what the Indians were like: warlike, cruel, and utterly savage. Again, from Roosevelt (who's a great resource on this stuff):

"The tribes were warlike and bloodthirsty, jealous of each other and the whites; they claimed the land for their hunting grounds, but their claims all conflicted with one another; their knowledge of their own boundaries was so indefinite that they were always willing, for inadequate compensation, to sell land to which they had merely the vaguest title; and yet, when once they had received the goods, were generally reluctant to make over even what they could; they coveted the goods and scalps of the whites, and the young warriors were always on the alert to commit outrages when they could do it with impunity."

And Roosevelt's opinion of your historic revisionism about the Indians (which was begun, even in his time, by effete urbanites who had never even met an Indian let alone seen the frontier)?

"The purely sentimental historians take no account of the difficulties under which we labored, nor the countless wrongs and provocations we endured, while grossly magnifying the already lamentably large number of injuries for which we really deserve to be held responsible. These foolish sentimentalists not only write foul slanders about their countrymen but are themselves the worst possible advisers on any point touching Indian management. They would do well to heed General Sheridan's bitter words, written when many Easterners were clamoring against the Army authorities because they took partial vengeance for a series of brutal outrages: 'I do not know how far these humanitarians should be excused on account of their ignorance; but surely it is the only excuse that can give a shadow of justification for aiding and abetting such horrid crimes.'"

What horrid crimes? The cruelty and depredations of the Indians were well known while they were still numerous and free enough to engage in them regularly. There are too many examples to enumerate here, but this is a taste of typical Indian behavior. Mary Jemison wrote about her experience being captured by the Seneca Indians along with her whole family when she was 15 years old (1758):

"On our march that day, an Indian went behind us with a whip, which he frequently lashed the children, to make them keep up. In this manner we traveled until dark, without a mouthful of food or a drop of water, although we had not eaten since the night before. Whenever the little children cried for water, the Indians would make them drink urine, or go thirsty."

"An Indian took the little boy and myself by the hand, to lead us off from the company. When my mother exclaimed, 'Don't cry, Mary! - don't cry my child! God will bless you! Farewell - Farewell!"

"My suspicion as to the fate of my parents proved too true; for soon after I left them they were killed and scalped, together with Robert, Matthew, Betsey, and the woman and her two children, and mangled in the most shocking manner [she is referring here to the common Indian practice of genital mutilation and torture of white prisoners: men, women, and children alike]. When the Indians had finished their supper, they took from their baggage a number of scalps, and went about preparing them for the market, or to keep without spoiling, by straining them over small hoops which they prepared for that purpose, and the drying and scraping them by the fire. Having put the scalps, yet wet and bloody, upon the hoops, and stretched them to their full extent, they held them to the fire till they were party dried, and then, with their knives, commenced scraping off the flesh; and in that way they continued to work, alternately drying and scraping, till they were dry and clean. That being done, they combed the hair in the neatest manner, and then painted it on the enges of the scalps, yet on the hopps, red. Those scalps I knew at the time must have been taken from our family, by the color of the hair. My mother's hair was red; and I could easily distinguish my father's and the children's from each other. That sight was most appalling; yet I was obliged to endure it without complaining."

There are tens of thousands of pages of accounts of atrocities committed by the Indians, like this and far worse, in the historic record. So keep your foolish sentimentality about the "poor, oppressed native americans" to yourself, because the only charitable interpretation of your writing about this subject is that you are wholly ignorant of the facts surrounding it.

Nov 19, 13 1:22 pm

^ EDIT: Mary Jemison was captured by the Shawnee and later bought by the Seneca. Sorry for the error.

Nov 19, 13 1:29 pm
won and done williams


Nov 19, 13 1:36 pm

Indians started scalping whites because whites were paid a bounty for Indian scalps. What's good for the goose ... (cliche for tammy).

Nov 19, 13 1:38 pm


They were scalping long before they were paid bounties for it. The bounty thing was started by the French during the French & Indian war, but the Indians had been doing it already. The Crow Creek Site (dated 1325AD), shows extensive evidence of scalping.

Keep on keeping on with your revisionism, though.

Nov 19, 13 1:43 pm

I do see the Massachussetts Bay Colony did pay a scalp bounty in one of the 1600s native wars, so they did do that. But again, the practice was already widespread among the Indians, going back a long way prior to white settlement.

Nov 19, 13 1:46 pm
Black Elk had a different take. Learn something new every day.
Nov 19, 13 1:48 pm
Them again not all tribal cultures were the same.
Nov 19, 13 1:49 pm

i will celebrate thanksgiving, and be thankful for the family i have and the blessings i've received.  i will morn the family i've lost.  i will not go into some hysterical tirade like tammuz.  apparently there was a negotiation of peace between the local native american tribe and new dutch settlers around 1620, they ate some food, and when they walked away, there was peace between them.  the peace didn't last forever, but it did last a while.  you could be thankful for the peace you have, since it might not last forever.  or you could just watch the packers-lions game.

thanksgiving is a holiday with lots of wine and food and football.  i am not prepared to lose this holiday, especially since it's already being overshadowed by the god-awful consumerism of christmas.  black friday has already been destroyed so they could add another day or 2 the christmas shopping season, now you want to take the rest of thanksgiving just because you hate white people.  it must really make you sick that i will enjoy this time with my family.

before that dinner and peace negotiation in 1620, the Wampanoag were apparently at war with the Mi'kmaq and Pequot.  that means there were native americans killing native americans.  surely you place the same hate on native americans that you place on white people, right?  since they committed the exact same atrocity you're railing against?  i'm pretty sure at the time there were native tribes that supported slavery in various ways too.

surely your not suggesting what happened in the following decades to other tribes of native americans is directly related to this event?  they were a pretty small group.  because it would be pretty dumb to think the pilgrims had anything to do with the sioux or the cherokee.  the pilgrims didn't get that far west, and those tribes and nations didn't get that far east.  surely you don't think all white people or all americans are descended from the religious nut-jobs that landed at plymouth?  most immigrants came to america after that, from different regions, and for different reasons.

i've never committed genocide against a people.  i've never murdered large groups of innocent women and children.  i've never owned slaves.  it's pretty messed up that you would try to put those crimes on me.  i admit there are groups i can be categorized with that have done those things, but there have also been native americans who have done those things, and i bet i can put you in a group that has done them as well.

I'm not doing this out of hate. You read it that way because you're predisposed to but I wish to remind you what the roots of your celebration is. and to bring it up nonetheless, whie your lips are smeared with blood red sauce.

sure sounds like you have a lot of hate, but i assume we'll agree we can enjoy the holiday, as long as we stick with white gravy and avoid beets and other red fruits or vegetables?

Nov 19, 13 1:49 pm
Non Sequitur

Pumpkin Pie!

Nov 19, 13 1:54 pm

Miles, Black Elk was hardly a neutral observer, and his own tribe (Lakota/Sioux) was notoriously warlike and well-known for committing atrocities against white settlers and other tribes.


Nov 19, 13 2:10 pm

tammuz you are a turd.

get the hell off your high horse, just because you posted some 5 page article that you and everybody else probably didn't even bother to read doesn't make you some kind of radical activist.

like every other holiday in this county thanksgiving has nothing to do with the roots it was founded upon.  its just about hanging out with family, having some food and drinking a few beers.

Nov 19, 13 2:12 pm


Tammuz' reference to the Palestinians is telling with regard to his historic revisionism on the Indian Wars. It's become quite fashionable among the bien pensant set to compare the current plight of the Palestinians to the now horribly whitewashed and revisionist image of the Indians. It's a purely political stance, and one that is actually very insulting to the Palestinians if you look at the actual history of what the Indians were like and did. But hey! Historic accuracy is way out of fashion these days. More important to count coup on the palefaces.

Nov 19, 13 2:15 pm

and the trees weep :(

Nov 19, 13 2:18 pm

And speaking of history, the main reason we celebrate Thanksgiving as a national holiday in the United States is in remembrance of the Civil War, not a Pilgrim dinner. See Abraham Lincoln's Declaration here:

Prior to that, the "Pilgrim" Thanksgiving was an obscure holiday celebrated only in some parts of New England.

So, when you sit down to your turkey and pumpkin pie (PUMPKIN PIE!) on Thanksgiving Day, take a moment to remember and honor the million and half who were wounded or died in that horrible conflict, and give thanks that we survived it.

Nov 19, 13 2:28 pm


Nov 19, 13 2:30 pm

I always thought it was a celebration of harvest, to give thanks for the bounty of the earth. But I grew up on a farm. 

Nov 19, 13 2:32 pm

traditionalists like pumpkin pie.  the educated elite modernists with the manifestos like pecan pie.

Nov 19, 13 3:02 pm
Non Sequitur

Curt, I usually take a piece of each. What does that make me, a modern traditionalist?

Nov 19, 13 3:12 pm

i suppose it means your the sort of person that really understands the spirit of the holiday?

Nov 19, 13 3:21 pm

Tammuz must be a hoot at parties..

Nov 19, 13 7:47 pm

"traditionalists like pumpkin pie.  the educated elite modernists with the manifestos like pecan pie."

Does anyone know how to make this my signature on archinect... no one has spoken more truer words.

And yes Tammuz, I think you may have taken it even farther than I would have... that deserves a round of applause!

~Drum roll plz~

Nov 19, 13 7:50 pm

Tammuz must be a hoot at parties..

I have no doubt is T a m m u z is a hoot.  That's why I egg him on.  He is so mercurial that he makes me look sterile, and I'm not referring to "shooting blanks."

Nov 19, 13 8:36 pm
Wow, y'all are invited to texas hill country to celebrate whatever atrocity you want. Bring guns, ammo, scotch, cigars....I already shot the turkeys...oh yeah...LIGHTEN THE HELL UP....
Nov 19, 13 8:47 pm
chatter of clouds

the forced displacement of Native Americans from southern states and the "trail of tears" 

The U.S. Government used treaties as one means to displace Indians from their tribal lands, a mechanism that was strengthened with the Removal Act of 1830. In cases where this failed, the government sometimes violated both treaties and Supreme Court rulings to facilitate the spread of European Americans westward across the continent.

...under the guns of federal troops and Georgia state militia, the Cherokee tribe were forced to the dry plains across the Mississippi. The best evidence indicates that between three and four thousand out of the fifteen to sixteen thousand Cherokees died en route from the brutal conditions of the “Trail of Tears.”

Nov 19, 13 10:01 pm

t a m m u z, as a newfangled Canadian, please tell us what THAT Thanksgiving is about.

Nov 19, 13 10:04 pm
chatter of clouds

about scalp harvesting

So to sum up: The slaughter of Indians by white hunters, who compared their prey to animals, was commonplace on the American frontier. But the payment of scalp bounties was far less common, and even where they existed, the offer of bounties probably did not recruit many people to kill Indians who were not already ready to do so. There is no convincing evidence that anyone "made a living" on scalp  bounties: it was probably not anyone's primary source of subsistence. There is  stronger evidence that Indian killers sometimes collected bounties on the scalps  of Indians they were already highly motivated to kill, out of some  combination of hatred and land lust.

Nov 19, 13 10:06 pm

i think i saw suh actually do that in the detroit game 2 years ago tam

Nov 19, 13 10:27 pm
chatter of clouds


This myth perpetuates the notion that the colonization of the United States was peaceful and welcomed by Native inhabitants. The truth, available in primary source material is that the Pilgrims settled on an abandoned Indian Village that had been wiped out by European diseases that the Pilgrims themselves also carried; estimates vary, but it is now accepted that before the European invasion, the Indigenous population of North America was between 10 to 20 Million.168
By the time the Pilgrims “landed” the Northeast United States had been grossly
depopulated of Native Americans. The Pilgrims themselves stole from the surviving Indians, even robbing their graves, some giving thanks to God for the European plagues of diseases visited upon the Natives.169
The “Pilgrims” were even enslaving Indigenous Peoples in New England, and shipping them off
to the Caribbean in exchange for Black slaves:
“The Center of Native American slavery, like African American slavery, was
South Carolina. Its population in 1708 included 3,960 free whites, 4,100 African
Slaves, 1,400 Indian slaves and 120 indentured servants, presumably white. These
numbers do not reflect the magnitude of Native slavery, however because they
omit the export trade. From Carolina, as from New England, colonists sent Indian
slaves (who might escape) to the West Indies (where they could never escape), in
exchange for black slaves. Charleston shipped more than 10,000 Natives in chains
to the West Indies in one year.”170
The Thanksgiving myth is re-enacted by schoolchildren throughout the United States. It has become an American morality play, elaborated and expanded, even grander and more paternalistic in every re-telling:

“The civil ritual we practice marginalizes Indians. Our archetypal image of the
first Thanksgiving portrays the groaning boards in the woods, with the Pilgrims in
their starched Sunday best next to their almost naked Indian guests. As a holiday
greeting card puts it, ‘I is for the Indians we invited to share our food. The
silliness of it all reaches its zenith in the handouts that schoolchildren have carried

home for decades, complete with captions such as, ‘They served pumpkins and
turkeys and corn and squash. The Indians had never seen such a feast.’ When
Native American novelist Michael Dorris’s son brought home this ‘information’
from his New Hampshire elementary school, Dorris pointed out that, ‘the Pilgrims
had literally never seen ‘such a feast,’ since all the foods mentioned are
exclusively indigenous to the Americas and have been provided by [or with the
aid of] the local tribe.
“The notion that ‘we’ advanced people provided for the Indians, exactly the
converse of the truth, is not benign.” 171
Textbooks describing he Thanksgiving myth, with its vision of friends arriving for dinner
establish a false vision of Indians welcoming colonist Europeans, and willingly giving them their possessions, their food and their land. The myth serves the purpose of establishing the Peaceful Christian Pilgrims and the backward, nearly naked heathen wild Indians’ willing and justified subservience. This myth perpetuates the heathanization of Native Americans and the “gift” of Christianity, long an excuse for genocide. These myths not only serve to cement the notion of the
superiority of the dominant culture and the dominant race, but also racist paternalism: “they provide for us, we are Dependent, we are and should be “Wards.”

Nov 19, 13 10:31 pm

Not much to say but we saved 600 frozen turkeys, so those less fortunate might have a day of I say it in a broad  expression.  These people come from a broad span of life and believes..but it is Thanksgiving. So I'm sure each and everyone of them is thankful for a full belly of food.  You don't have to tell me about the past as we have the future to live in.  Take care of your world family!  It might be your neighbor, some one in your town , someone in the South Pacific, or someone  on an Indian Reservation...just be good to your neighbor. Please quit pissing against the wind, as it is no way to make friends,,(sorta a Jerry Jeff Walker quote)

Nov 19, 13 10:38 pm

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