Im thinking that this building probably took more creative hours and innovation than most buildings out there. A great project by a great architect office just went up in flames, and you are whining about the about the wood and metal lost??
Good architecture is about more than just getting photos of your building onto the glossy pages of a magazine, or serving as masturbation fodder for first-year architecture students. Something about protecting the health and safety of its occupants comes to mind.
A 44-story skyscraper that was apparently incinerated by a firecracker? There's something incredibly fucked-up about that. Maybe Rem should stick to writing books that nobody reads, rather than designing trophy buildings for dictatorships.
They tested against all these earthquake scenarios, but forgot about fire. But then that was unusual fire, given how it's almost like a rocket exploded in a building.
I wonder if the building can be salvaged. From the construction photos, it looks like the structure is composed of two concrete towers, linked together with giant trusses. The metal skin is a space frame that is not holding the main structure, except the top part.
Since most steel should be formed with safety compliance standards, they should still be structural after a fire. Besides, it any of them were ever bent, I think the building has collapsed already. It probably does not need to be torn down like the neighboring buildings of WTC.
Given how the building was built within 4 years, my (very unprofessional) guess is that it may take 2 years to rehabilitate the building. And then lawsuits till the end of time.
Please point out all my errors. I'm just making my roughest guesses. Thanks!
@treekiller: Every project is ego-driven. Your iPhone, Linux computer, down to the guy who thinks that green architecture is the future. Without ego, a certain stubborness in believing what you decided was right, there is nobody to convince other people that there is a project to do. It will bureaucracy, or a tedious review process, which is just as bad. Besides, hating starchitects is such a fad now.
Moreover, it is an interesting case in architecture regardless of ideologies, who built it, who designed it, who decided to build it. Lastly, the greenest thing to do in this situation is, to think what can be re-used from the disaster.
This disaster is particularly errie because it probably resembles a lot of architecture projects designed by many fellows here during college.
Just cause y'all can't get commissions to build 40 story glass cocks in developing countries doesn't mean you should hate on those that do. This profession isn't about ego, this profession is ego.
"This disaster is particularly errie because it probably resembles a lot of architecture projects designed by many fellows here during college."
Well, no shit. Walk through any architecture studio and chances are it's loaded to the rafters with a bunch of OMA knock-offs. Just like all the cool kids wearing that big Johnny Hilfiger logo, all the cool architecture students wanna be like Rem.
"Just cause y'all can't get commissions to build 40 story glass cocks in developing countries doesn't mean you should hate on those that do. This profession isn't about ego, this profession is ego."
Spare us the sanctimonious bullshit. Ego is fine, as long as you have the talent and competence to back it up. Otherwise you're just a puffed-up charlatan, no matter how many turtleneck-clad critics are lined up to suck your dick.
There's lots of talented architects out there that don't seem to have trouble designing beautiful, well-constructed, functional buildings that aren't death traps. Most of them are content to get commissions based on their merits as architects, rather than by being at the forefront of whatever architectural psuedo-theory happens to be fashionable this week. Maybe those architects should be the role models in studio, rather than certain over-exposed hacks who happen to have good publicity agents.
Ego is fine, as long as you have the talent and competence to back it up. Otherwise you're just a puffed-up charlatan, no matter how many turtleneck-clad critics are lined up to suck your dick.
That said: Because of the building being unfinished, the status of any fire protection systems is unknown, so I'm not yet willing to say* the building was a death trap. It would be interesting to see an engineering post mortem investigation, though it seems doubtful (as was said upthread) that CCTV will allow one to be released.
*As if I'm some kind of expert on FP in 40 story towers - I'm not (even though I'm registered!).
wow, this really gives me a newfound respect for the NYC Firefighters on 9/11. Seriously.
These guys did not just watch their building burn, they figured out how to get in there and save people, or died trying. There's something in those news articles about the fire ladders only reaching 10 stories or something... that didn't stop the NYC firemen.
I'm not usually one to feel an upswelling of pride in my country but I have to say, I am now. It's awfully sad to think, but are the Chinese simply so used to losing thousands of their countrymen in each disastrous event that they don't even have systems in place to try to save every life? What kind of government allows its citizens to die en masse over and over again in tragic event after tragic event year after year after year? I feel very sorry for the Chinese today.
And for OMA as well. That poor project manager. I cannot imagine spending 6-7 years pouring my heart out on a project only to see it go up in flames 1 month before completion. This is awful all around.
someone needs to take less karate lessons, and more yoga. sounds like Ross from Friends with the UNAGI thing, but less macho
The cause and fault are still unknown. Those flickr photos are not incriminating - where does one see the absence of firestops. Did all you archi-detectives show up on the same bus?
The burning of one tower is not a death-knell for all celebrated architects. Furthermore, buildings at that scale are not done by one agency.
And it is not just rewards for working for a communist party. Learn to separate the issues; it's all rolled up in one clenched ball. When did this become a measure of which country has better emergency response (which, by the way, isn't exactly true).
Pak-Kei, the burned tower is not CCTV as the icon we are familiar with. It is a single-core, if it has one, tower with an atrium inside, called TVCC as servicing facilities.
And I don't agree the manifesto "every project is ego-driven". You exaggerated the concept of "ego". When you want something, it's not only about "ego" - sometimes its about "superego" (really different from ego); sometimes it is just "subconscious", especially in the field of arts and creation. My personal point - correct me if i am wrong.
Great architects carry more expectations from people like you and me. I feel cheerful when I saw great players showing their magics. But for life safety and fire proofing issue, they cannot ignore it and fail it just because they are famous. And as I mentioned above, this issue is really really basic for architects. You got structural engineers for structural and seismic issues; you got MEP engineers working on wires and pipes; probably you got fire proofing consultants assisting you on this project - and you still say it is not your responsibility because of the firecrackers?!
The envision of this profession probably makes really different attitude towards the real physical world and our social and cultural contexts. But No One has the excuse f**king around regardless the safety and cost of other people. Or you would just destroy this profession's credit with your "flagship" status.
When did this become a measure of which country has better emergency response (which, by the way, isn't exactly true).
jobbyjob -- my comment was more about the general nature of Chinese disasters -- they tend to affect far more people at once than you see in most other places (outside of perhaps Pakistan). When you see the death toll in earthquakes -- due to poor construction practices -- and in massive building failures over and over again -- not to mention the YEARLY enormous death tolls caused by mine collapse -- you start to notice a trend that points to the Chinese government's failure to adequately protect its citizens. I am not one to think that the government is responsible for everything -- certainly common sense and human intelligence should hopefully count for something -- but the simplest, number 1, most basic essential reason for a government's existence is to protect its citizenry. I'm sorry to say, we just don't seem to see that happening in China as it should.
All i know is alot of architects like to compare cocks, architecturally speaking that is.
And since when did "talent" have anything to do with it, the people who are hailed as "talented" in the media, as living in gin pointed out, may not necessarily be talented. What you consider "talent" may not be considered as others as talent. All i'm saying is its a fucking goddamn shame this building burnt down and everyone just blaming it on rem's ego straight out the gate when everybody here has the ego to say OMA blows in the first place is kind of ridiculous. How many of us can claim the success they've made? Why aren't we considering if the builder didn't put fire stops in because the client didn't want to pay for it and wasn't required by code? What if the building was burnt down intentionally or wasn't burnt down by a firecracker? What if fireproofing was installed, but it was installed improperly?
mantaray, I feel sad for China too. This country has a lot of problems. As architects, we have limited power to transform the social problems. But definitely we can develop a better construction document to prevent tragedies like this.
Comparing to the auto industry, this profession is way behind the current industry capability level. Can you imagine that a firecracker would burn your Porsche, or Civic? And now almost every car has airbags protecting people's safety. Have you ever heard any famous auto designer who designed a beautiful, gorgeous car without, or with failure, protecting measures?
A great architect first should be a good architect, without any exception that makes him/her untouchable to basic safety issues.
yeah like the way merika protected everyone in new orleans and with the coal tailings flud. lets not get too hypocritical here. china has problems. so does usa, so does any country when it comes down to it. the earthquakes in china and the schools are a tragedy. fuck politics, that was a tragedy and one that could have been prevented. someone should be angry. death of children is just wrong wrong wrong. i think that is more about the times than the society. boom times breed corruption and collusion. it happened in usa once too. still does really, just not on such a scale. not that there is any excuse.
i don't understand the rem hating. the claims above about due-diligence type stuff i agree with. someone fucked up very badly here. clearly. i don't think that was because oma is a brand and brands are by nature incompetent. rem's ego as cause for disaster just doesn't jibe with me somehow...i am guessing there is actually something more specific.
some of the remarks sound so petty i can only interpret it as someone compensating for feelings of inadequacy. which is absurd. if you want to be an anonymous but competent architect that is fine, but why hate the people who are famous and competent? i just can't agree that the famous people are not good at what they do, nor that they have lower safety standards. i know some of them, and they are very serious people. and they are competent in ways that boggle the mind.
i am kinda shocked that so many folks here have this idea that rem practices architecture the way joachim phoenix is trying his hand at rap. if it were only famous people fucking up then there would be no need for liability insurance and all the other kinds of insurance regular architects need to subscribe to in order to practice in most every country on this frickin planet.
The exterior cladding from those photos looks like a rain screen, thus its simply fire resistant. The exterior weather barrier, the rubber, in America would be non flammable. I dont think fire stops would be required in a rain screen system because it's outside the protective envelope. It will be interesting to see if the fire was limited to the rain screen cavity. It will be interesting to see if the weather barrier was up to specification. Its also entirely possible the fire started in a kerosene tank or other liquid container on the roof and maybe spiiled down the cavity. Once anything gets hot enough it will burn - including metals.
1. Rem "not necessarily be talented"?
2. The architect is a yes-person who yielded to the client's request to reduce budget.
3. If we don't have the achievement OMA has, we can not comment anything to its success, or failure.
Definitely Rem is a marvelous guy and we admire his achievement and like his ideas. Personally, I don't think this is a budget issue - or they would not have hired Rem as the architect. The government is RICH and Rem is not a yes-person as we know. A lot of us are nothing compare a star-architect like Rem, but we are not blind based on our experiences and knowledge. We are not aware the exactly reason for the accident but we feel sorry for this happened to Rem.
jump, i didn't mention politics, nor do i feel they're at fault. didn't say america was never at fault for corruption and not taking care of its citizens. and yes, every government has its issues. But that doesn't take away the fact that china's current government seems to be having a hell of a time keeping its citizens safe.
just because everything's relative and fingers can be pointed everywhere and you shouldn't cast a stone without removing the log in your own eye -- doesn't mean we shouldn't call attention to, talk about, and try to solve obvious endemic problems when we see them.
and to be sure -- i am a vocal critic of my own government's faults as well, and try to be as active as i can be in solving them. but that doesn't mean we should look the other way when a government fails to protect its citizens over and over and over again.
The exterior wall detail does not make any sense to me. Even it is metal panel constructed wall, it should be treated as a curtain wall system. And as we know the fire stopper is critical for high-rise exterior wall fire proofing. That's why we can read shadow boxes on many towers (even some architects don't like the horizontal bands). Making a continuous water proofing layer (read from the TVCC photos linked by berebei) is easy for construction, but it is a contraversion to the basic principle to separate floors into different fire-proofing zone.
Honestly I doubt Rem has the experience working on exterior wall details as I do. If they are hiring curtain wall experts, I would love to submit my resume.
manta, i understand you. i agree chinese political system is troubling in so many ways, but i don't think this fire is related to that somehow. if a roof on a stadium collapses from snow-load in the USA i don't think it is fair to see it as evidence of failure of american political system.
i don't know how to explain exactly but the fact of this disaster being used as platform to stand on rem's hands, rail at chinese political system and so on...it feels...i don't know....kinda goulish.
LIG, If you had a little more knowledge about how a building actually goes together, you would probably know that it takes more than an architect to do so. Actually, even starchitects like OMA are very small pawns in putting something of this magnitude together.
Yes, the firefighting norms and resources are not as good in China as in the US, but that is a criticism of the chinese system and not OMA's design. Do you think architects should assume beyond the limitations of a certain system and design keeping in mind that the fire tenders would arrive 2 hours later?
Id surely like to see something that you have designed.
Fuck off, sameolddoctor. You don't need to be an accomplished starchitect to know that a modern-day 44-story hotel shouldn't be totally engulfed in flames in less than 20 minutes. Why is that so hard to understand? We're fortunate in that the building was shown to be a death trap before it opened, and not a year from now when fully occupied with hundreds of overnight guests.
this wasn't a "modern day 44-story hotel" - it was a 44-story construction site. until there is a review of what happened, how the fire started, how it expanded, what fire systems were in place or not yet connected, when did the fire services arrive on site - then the overt prejudices based on envy, disdain, pettiness and ignorance seem rather self-serving.
maybe someone could just start a "I Hate Rem" discussion.
"Have you ever heard any famous auto designer who designed a beautiful, gorgeous car without, or with failure, protecting measures?"---ah yeah the auto industry fought for years against mandatory safety features.
vado - its been done. like every year someone burns some shit.
Really - REM publishes all these culturocentric books but NO ONE has the foresight to prepare for the fireworks laden chinese new year? how long has OMA been IN THAT COUNTRY?
TVCC ON FIRE
wow so many haters around....The resources??
Im thinking that this building probably took more creative hours and innovation than most buildings out there. A great project by a great architect office just went up in flames, and you are whining about the about the wood and metal lost??
let alone the risk for humans in the fire?
Good architecture is about more than just getting photos of your building onto the glossy pages of a magazine, or serving as masturbation fodder for first-year architecture students. Something about protecting the health and safety of its occupants comes to mind.
A 44-story skyscraper that was apparently incinerated by a firecracker? There's something incredibly fucked-up about that. Maybe Rem should stick to writing books that nobody reads, rather than designing trophy buildings for dictatorships.
They tested against all these earthquake scenarios, but forgot about fire. But then that was unusual fire, given how it's almost like a rocket exploded in a building.
I wonder if the building can be salvaged. From the construction photos, it looks like the structure is composed of two concrete towers, linked together with giant trusses. The metal skin is a space frame that is not holding the main structure, except the top part.
Since most steel should be formed with safety compliance standards, they should still be structural after a fire. Besides, it any of them were ever bent, I think the building has collapsed already. It probably does not need to be torn down like the neighboring buildings of WTC.
Given how the building was built within 4 years, my (very unprofessional) guess is that it may take 2 years to rehabilitate the building. And then lawsuits till the end of time.
Please point out all my errors. I'm just making my roughest guesses. Thanks!
@treekiller: Every project is ego-driven. Your iPhone, Linux computer, down to the guy who thinks that green architecture is the future. Without ego, a certain stubborness in believing what you decided was right, there is nobody to convince other people that there is a project to do. It will bureaucracy, or a tedious review process, which is just as bad. Besides, hating starchitects is such a fad now.
Moreover, it is an interesting case in architecture regardless of ideologies, who built it, who designed it, who decided to build it. Lastly, the greenest thing to do in this situation is, to think what can be re-used from the disaster.
This disaster is particularly errie because it probably resembles a lot of architecture projects designed by many fellows here during college.
wow...did they build that with kerosene soaked haybales or what! No building should go up like that.
So where did the fire start. As Architect Fire Marshall NO. 1 i would suspect....(Fill in the Blank).
who said the fire only last for 20 mins? by CN report, the fire last at least 4 hours to burn like this.
http://cnreviews.com/beijing/cctv_fire_photos_20090209.html
arup SF did the fire engineering...guess they know who to layoff now
The NY Times and the BBC said it took less than 20 minutes for the entire structure to be fully engulfed.
It should be around daybreak in Beijing by now... It will be interesting to see photos of what's left.
Pak-Kei speaks the Truth.
Just cause y'all can't get commissions to build 40 story glass cocks in developing countries doesn't mean you should hate on those that do. This profession isn't about ego, this profession is ego.
Well, no shit. Walk through any architecture studio and chances are it's loaded to the rafters with a bunch of OMA knock-offs. Just like all the cool kids wearing that big Johnny Hilfiger logo, all the cool architecture students wanna be like Rem.
"Just cause y'all can't get commissions to build 40 story glass cocks in developing countries doesn't mean you should hate on those that do. This profession isn't about ego, this profession is ego."
Spare us the sanctimonious bullshit. Ego is fine, as long as you have the talent and competence to back it up. Otherwise you're just a puffed-up charlatan, no matter how many turtleneck-clad critics are lined up to suck your dick.
There's lots of talented architects out there that don't seem to have trouble designing beautiful, well-constructed, functional buildings that aren't death traps. Most of them are content to get commissions based on their merits as architects, rather than by being at the forefront of whatever architectural psuedo-theory happens to be fashionable this week. Maybe those architects should be the role models in studio, rather than certain over-exposed hacks who happen to have good publicity agents.
let's just get all the facts (or try to)
So good it needs to be repeated:
Ego is fine, as long as you have the talent and competence to back it up. Otherwise you're just a puffed-up charlatan, no matter how many turtleneck-clad critics are lined up to suck your dick.
That said: Because of the building being unfinished, the status of any fire protection systems is unknown, so I'm not yet willing to say* the building was a death trap. It would be interesting to see an engineering post mortem investigation, though it seems doubtful (as was said upthread) that CCTV will allow one to be released.
*As if I'm some kind of expert on FP in 40 story towers - I'm not (even though I'm registered!).
fire in the disco. fire in the taco bell....
after this fire, I assume,
. tvcc would be torn down and they would ask for new proposal to OMA very soon, maybe another kind of tvcc again, with a same basement.
. super highrise with an vertical atrium is not allowed anymore.
. firecrane cars are allowed to enter the downtown Beijing again.
. super firecrane designed for super tower would be carried out in future.
. no more ego, super, delirous building interested to be built in Beijing in a long run.
. no more firework allowed in the downtown CN cities again.
finally, and maybe, the TVCC finished the age of delirous Beijing architecture and hopefully, helps them to find the way back to rationism.
wow, this really gives me a newfound respect for the NYC Firefighters on 9/11. Seriously.
These guys did not just watch their building burn, they figured out how to get in there and save people, or died trying. There's something in those news articles about the fire ladders only reaching 10 stories or something... that didn't stop the NYC firemen.
I'm not usually one to feel an upswelling of pride in my country but I have to say, I am now. It's awfully sad to think, but are the Chinese simply so used to losing thousands of their countrymen in each disastrous event that they don't even have systems in place to try to save every life? What kind of government allows its citizens to die en masse over and over again in tragic event after tragic event year after year after year? I feel very sorry for the Chinese today.
And for OMA as well. That poor project manager. I cannot imagine spending 6-7 years pouring my heart out on a project only to see it go up in flames 1 month before completion. This is awful all around.
someone needs to take less karate lessons, and more yoga. sounds like Ross from Friends with the UNAGI thing, but less macho
The cause and fault are still unknown. Those flickr photos are not incriminating - where does one see the absence of firestops. Did all you archi-detectives show up on the same bus?
The burning of one tower is not a death-knell for all celebrated architects. Furthermore, buildings at that scale are not done by one agency.
And it is not just rewards for working for a communist party. Learn to separate the issues; it's all rolled up in one clenched ball. When did this become a measure of which country has better emergency response (which, by the way, isn't exactly true).
schadenfreude - not only a river in Egypt
Pak-Kei, the burned tower is not CCTV as the icon we are familiar with. It is a single-core, if it has one, tower with an atrium inside, called TVCC as servicing facilities.
And I don't agree the manifesto "every project is ego-driven". You exaggerated the concept of "ego". When you want something, it's not only about "ego" - sometimes its about "superego" (really different from ego); sometimes it is just "subconscious", especially in the field of arts and creation. My personal point - correct me if i am wrong.
Great architects carry more expectations from people like you and me. I feel cheerful when I saw great players showing their magics. But for life safety and fire proofing issue, they cannot ignore it and fail it just because they are famous. And as I mentioned above, this issue is really really basic for architects. You got structural engineers for structural and seismic issues; you got MEP engineers working on wires and pipes; probably you got fire proofing consultants assisting you on this project - and you still say it is not your responsibility because of the firecrackers?!
The envision of this profession probably makes really different attitude towards the real physical world and our social and cultural contexts. But No One has the excuse f**king around regardless the safety and cost of other people. Or you would just destroy this profession's credit with your "flagship" status.
jobbyjob -- my comment was more about the general nature of Chinese disasters -- they tend to affect far more people at once than you see in most other places (outside of perhaps Pakistan). When you see the death toll in earthquakes -- due to poor construction practices -- and in massive building failures over and over again -- not to mention the YEARLY enormous death tolls caused by mine collapse -- you start to notice a trend that points to the Chinese government's failure to adequately protect its citizens. I am not one to think that the government is responsible for everything -- certainly common sense and human intelligence should hopefully count for something -- but the simplest, number 1, most basic essential reason for a government's existence is to protect its citizenry. I'm sorry to say, we just don't seem to see that happening in China as it should.
All i know is alot of architects like to compare cocks, architecturally speaking that is.
And since when did "talent" have anything to do with it, the people who are hailed as "talented" in the media, as living in gin pointed out, may not necessarily be talented. What you consider "talent" may not be considered as others as talent. All i'm saying is its a fucking goddamn shame this building burnt down and everyone just blaming it on rem's ego straight out the gate when everybody here has the ego to say OMA blows in the first place is kind of ridiculous. How many of us can claim the success they've made? Why aren't we considering if the builder didn't put fire stops in because the client didn't want to pay for it and wasn't required by code? What if the building was burnt down intentionally or wasn't burnt down by a firecracker? What if fireproofing was installed, but it was installed improperly?
mantaray, I feel sad for China too. This country has a lot of problems. As architects, we have limited power to transform the social problems. But definitely we can develop a better construction document to prevent tragedies like this.
Comparing to the auto industry, this profession is way behind the current industry capability level. Can you imagine that a firecracker would burn your Porsche, or Civic? And now almost every car has airbags protecting people's safety. Have you ever heard any famous auto designer who designed a beautiful, gorgeous car without, or with failure, protecting measures?
A great architect first should be a good architect, without any exception that makes him/her untouchable to basic safety issues.
yeah like the way merika protected everyone in new orleans and with the coal tailings flud. lets not get too hypocritical here. china has problems. so does usa, so does any country when it comes down to it. the earthquakes in china and the schools are a tragedy. fuck politics, that was a tragedy and one that could have been prevented. someone should be angry. death of children is just wrong wrong wrong. i think that is more about the times than the society. boom times breed corruption and collusion. it happened in usa once too. still does really, just not on such a scale. not that there is any excuse.
i don't understand the rem hating. the claims above about due-diligence type stuff i agree with. someone fucked up very badly here. clearly. i don't think that was because oma is a brand and brands are by nature incompetent. rem's ego as cause for disaster just doesn't jibe with me somehow...i am guessing there is actually something more specific.
some of the remarks sound so petty i can only interpret it as someone compensating for feelings of inadequacy. which is absurd. if you want to be an anonymous but competent architect that is fine, but why hate the people who are famous and competent? i just can't agree that the famous people are not good at what they do, nor that they have lower safety standards. i know some of them, and they are very serious people. and they are competent in ways that boggle the mind.
i am kinda shocked that so many folks here have this idea that rem practices architecture the way joachim phoenix is trying his hand at rap. if it were only famous people fucking up then there would be no need for liability insurance and all the other kinds of insurance regular architects need to subscribe to in order to practice in most every country on this frickin planet.
The exterior cladding from those photos looks like a rain screen, thus its simply fire resistant. The exterior weather barrier, the rubber, in America would be non flammable. I dont think fire stops would be required in a rain screen system because it's outside the protective envelope. It will be interesting to see if the fire was limited to the rain screen cavity. It will be interesting to see if the weather barrier was up to specification. Its also entirely possible the fire started in a kerosene tank or other liquid container on the roof and maybe spiiled down the cavity. Once anything gets hot enough it will burn - including metals.
Apurimac, should I read your post as:
1. Rem "not necessarily be talented"?
2. The architect is a yes-person who yielded to the client's request to reduce budget.
3. If we don't have the achievement OMA has, we can not comment anything to its success, or failure.
Definitely Rem is a marvelous guy and we admire his achievement and like his ideas. Personally, I don't think this is a budget issue - or they would not have hired Rem as the architect. The government is RICH and Rem is not a yes-person as we know. A lot of us are nothing compare a star-architect like Rem, but we are not blind based on our experiences and knowledge. We are not aware the exactly reason for the accident but we feel sorry for this happened to Rem.
jump, i didn't mention politics, nor do i feel they're at fault. didn't say america was never at fault for corruption and not taking care of its citizens. and yes, every government has its issues. But that doesn't take away the fact that china's current government seems to be having a hell of a time keeping its citizens safe.
just because everything's relative and fingers can be pointed everywhere and you shouldn't cast a stone without removing the log in your own eye -- doesn't mean we shouldn't call attention to, talk about, and try to solve obvious endemic problems when we see them.
and to be sure -- i am a vocal critic of my own government's faults as well, and try to be as active as i can be in solving them. but that doesn't mean we should look the other way when a government fails to protect its citizens over and over and over again.
and i agree, that just looks like the weatherproofing membrane beneath rain screen exterior.
The exterior wall detail does not make any sense to me. Even it is metal panel constructed wall, it should be treated as a curtain wall system. And as we know the fire stopper is critical for high-rise exterior wall fire proofing. That's why we can read shadow boxes on many towers (even some architects don't like the horizontal bands). Making a continuous water proofing layer (read from the TVCC photos linked by berebei) is easy for construction, but it is a contraversion to the basic principle to separate floors into different fire-proofing zone.
Honestly I doubt Rem has the experience working on exterior wall details as I do. If they are hiring curtain wall experts, I would love to submit my resume.
sad - but makes me think of this song and this movie
burn motherf**ker burn
Any about the exterior and what not - I'm sure the local architect of record was the one doing most of the code details
photos from the morning after...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/fuzheado/sets/72157613554656534/
is it just me, or do this morning after pictures remind anyone anyone else of lebbeus woods?
l.w. has more style and passion in his work.....
"All i know is alot of architects like to compare cocks, architecturally speaking that is."
in line with that analogy......
Rem's cock just got gonorrhea
/ohhh the burning\
manta, i understand you. i agree chinese political system is troubling in so many ways, but i don't think this fire is related to that somehow. if a roof on a stadium collapses from snow-load in the USA i don't think it is fair to see it as evidence of failure of american political system.
i don't know how to explain exactly but the fact of this disaster being used as platform to stand on rem's hands, rail at chinese political system and so on...it feels...i don't know....kinda goulish.
.
Those morning after images scare the crap out of me. Was this building close to occupiable? Good lord.
agreed, if anything, this seems more contractor error or act of god than rem's fault.
what's the big deal here... I didn't see this much uproar when UNStudio's bldg went up in flames..?
LIG, If you had a little more knowledge about how a building actually goes together, you would probably know that it takes more than an architect to do so. Actually, even starchitects like OMA are very small pawns in putting something of this magnitude together.
Yes, the firefighting norms and resources are not as good in China as in the US, but that is a criticism of the chinese system and not OMA's design. Do you think architects should assume beyond the limitations of a certain system and design keeping in mind that the fire tenders would arrive 2 hours later?
Id surely like to see something that you have designed.
not to sidetrack, but this fire was much worse that the ones on 9/11 and those buildings fell...anyone want to do the math???
more photos of the morning after; TVCC After the Flames
Fuck off, sameolddoctor. You don't need to be an accomplished starchitect to know that a modern-day 44-story hotel shouldn't be totally engulfed in flames in less than 20 minutes. Why is that so hard to understand? We're fortunate in that the building was shown to be a death trap before it opened, and not a year from now when fully occupied with hundreds of overnight guests.
this wasn't a "modern day 44-story hotel" - it was a 44-story construction site. until there is a review of what happened, how the fire started, how it expanded, what fire systems were in place or not yet connected, when did the fire services arrive on site - then the overt prejudices based on envy, disdain, pettiness and ignorance seem rather self-serving.
maybe someone could just start a "I Hate Rem" discussion.
"Have you ever heard any famous auto designer who designed a beautiful, gorgeous car without, or with failure, protecting measures?"---ah yeah the auto industry fought for years against mandatory safety features.
is it just me, or does the morning after photos look a lot like Lebbeus Woods drawings? in a way there is a "beauty" in the scarred remnants.
The burning icon project would be a great idea for a thesis.
I think that was done by hundereds of students after 9-11.
redux
vado - its been done. like every year someone burns some shit.
Really - REM publishes all these culturocentric books but NO ONE has the foresight to prepare for the fireworks laden chinese new year? how long has OMA been IN THAT COUNTRY?
Really.
Alert Bjarke Ingels.
Warn Winy Maas.
Someone's burned the buildings
of Berkel and Koolhaas.
steel buildings dont collapse in fire...9/11 was an inside job...end of story...hi vado
I should probably stay away from the Seattle Public Library from now on
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