i know a girl in my year who started out at upenn purusing a mfa and then decided to add the mla to it... after a year of the mfa/mla combo she switched completely to a mla/m.arch and prefers that combination much more.... upenn's m.arch program is in a bit of a transition right now and there is an huge focus on systems ecology in the first two years which ties in very nicely with the work being done in landscape arch... it all depends on the person im sure, and what connections you see or would like to make in your own work...

What's your angle for wanting a MFA and MLA? Land Art isn't big at Penn, go to UVA for Bargmann if that's what your interested in.

Never encountered anybody with that combo. MLA/MArch is the most common, with MLA/MUP is close runner up. MArch/MRED, MArch/MPres, MArch/MUP are also fairly common. Not many MLA/MPres

The MFA students didn't mix it up as much with the rest of Penn Design while I was there.

There are well established curriculums for the MLA/MArch, MLA/MUP, MArch/MUP tracks. You'd probably be pioneering the MFA/MLA combo. Can't say that there is antagonism or much collaboration - the MLA students are just too busy (though they occasionally will date each other).



-TK
MLA/MArch '05

Thanks for the comments.


Trying as hard as I can to keep this from becoming an exhaustive biography:

I received a BFA back in '03, and have since been developing work focusing on relationships between space, meaning and identity. The vast majority of this work has found its expression in site-specific (outdoor) installation and cross-disciplinary collaboration. I shy away from the term "land art," in favor of "public intervention." My day-job since graduation has been language education, which has allowed me to spend the last five-or-so years traveling Asia (both the "developed" east and "developing" southeast). Let's call this my background.

About a year ago I was introduced to the writings of Corner, Girot, and Beardsley (to name a few), and I was smitten. Once I developed a familiarity with the language, I found the connections between my practice and their ideas to be uncanny. Corner's and Girot's idealism are particularly inspiring. Whether or not current practitioners are in agreement, Corner, specifically, seems to be calling for a reassessment of current Landscape practice.

This idealism is driving my interest in Landscape and desire to pursue an MLA. The fact that UPenn is the only program in the States offering such a dual degree (MLA/MFA) makes me wonder if they are 1.) breaking new ground or 2.) hopelessly gesturing.


To add:
I'm reluctant to pursue an MFA due to it's limited scope and tendency to wallow in art world self-reference. Treekiller nailed it on the head when writing about MFA students not "mixing it up." I'd say this is typical of many arts-based educational programs (an "interdisciplinary" structure usually translates as painters making sculpture...). Beyond that, I believe we're at a point where Art (and its myriad ideas) needs to reassert itself within other disciplines.


So, I guess the MLA/MFA "angle" is a pursuit of idealism.
...$100,000-and-a-possible-misunderstanding-of-the-field's worth of idealism...


Thanks, again for your info.

Any comments on this "idealism" I reference -- or do I seem completely out of my element?

eess- so your goal is to pursue creating public places that blur the distinction between art and landscape? your BFA should be sufficient to ground you in the modes of artistic expression (though is it enough to get grants?).

The Penn MLA program is sufficiently flexible (if you're not doing a dual degree) for you to take several art classes as your electives. The biggest downside to being a dual degree student is that you are prevented from taking any electives outside of studio as you race along fulfilling all the required classes. I was lucky to have advanced placement in architecture, that allowed a total of three electives outside the core curriculum during the entire three years I was at penn. If you just go for the MLA, you'll be in Meyerson for three years and have 6 to 9 electives to play with and mature your agenda.

I'm guessing the MLA/MFA is a 4 year experience aka $120-$150k.

did you apply this year? If so, go to the open house and talk to Jim, Anita, Anu, and the folks in the art program.

If you get in, check out courses with Victoria Marshall or Steve Tupo - they are the closest to landscape as performance of any of the folks orbiting Penn. Anu Mather will also promote an artistic and iterative exploration of landscape, though her goal is analysis through art. Anita is a Burle Marx scholar, so break out your paints and channel Ipinama.

You're a wealth of information and insight, treekiller. You also hit the nail on the head with a few points:
- my wanting to create public space borrowing equally from art and landscape
- the difficulty in receiving -anything- with only a BFA (this is another conversation entirely, but allow me this blanket statement for now)
- my belief that I have a solid understanding of contemporary modes of artistic expression

Let me add one more goal:
- the option of academia


While the US is chock a block with MFA grads vying for those dozen or so openings each year, the reality is that an MFA is typically required for entry into arts academia. I suppose a main point of this discussion is my uncertainty regarding my future, and my desire to pursue an education that will open the most possible doors (within the realm of art and landscape). The MFA adds a certain amount of perceived-legitimacy to my commitment to the arts and, along with an MLA, could possibly distinguish me from the unwashed masses -- or, at least, move me into a smaller subset of said masses. Honestly, this notion of "legitimacy" is probably the single biggest practical (as opposed to idealistic) factor keeping me on the fence regarding the MFA, the MLA, or both.

I am, however, completely realistic to the fact that whatever niche I'm trying to find/create is most likely small and somewhere on the margins... and probably getting smaller as a new economic reality sets in.


So... I'm looking to enter grad school in 2010, but have already started working on my application packet. I wish I had the option to visit some schools, but I'm currently living in Seoul and won't be back Stateside until May or June of next year. I've contacted Mr. Corner at UPenn for some more info, but am yet to hear anything.



And, once again, thanks for the dialogue.

ah, the korean connection. There are many Penn grads living in the ROK. have you met any?

you can send me an email directly via my archinect profile if you have any specific questions that you don't want to share with the forum..

good luck.

I'm interested in this program also- are there any people on this forum that have any firsthand information about what this program is like?

the MLA program is going through some major chnges, recruiting a lot of new faculty. The program is indeed pretty flexible as the previous posts say, specially if you are in the 3 year track. With Anita Berrizbeitia moving to Harvard and Jon Hunt retiring, there will be a few changes on the theory front as well...should be an interestig time to be at Penn

yes, definitely some changes afoot... the landscape dept is currently running 3 faculty searches... it will be interesting to see who ends up getting hired... i know that they got a ton of applications and are interviewing candidates now, so it shouldn't be too long before we see what the new shape/direction of the program will be... also, i still see JDH around meyerson pretty often, so i imagine that he will still teach an occasional class even though he is officially retired...

I can't attest to the current direction PENN is going at the moment, but I can tell you that after working at a few Landscape firms I noticed a distinct difference in the PENN people that I found to be much more applicable to the profession of Landscape Architecture.