May I inquire as to why you would pursue an additional undergraduate degree (BArch) after your business degree instead of pursuing a 3-4 year Master of Architecture designed for individuals who have an unrelated undergraduate degree.

You can search for programs from

www.naab.org

www.archschools.org

Also, you may wish to visit -- www.archcareers.org

Dr. Architecture

I've been considering applying to the 5th year of the B. arch program to supplement my BS in arch - as a possible alternative to m. arch. programs.

Has anybody done that instead of investing the major time and money of a proper grad school education?

I'm also in the same boat. Finishing my undergraduate in industrial design this May and considering applying to cooper union. Either that or spend some time working on pre-reqs for grad school. Something about cooper seems so appealing though, perhaps it's that fact that it's impossible to get into?

i know some who've gone the older student route at cooper. yes, there is a small list of complaints regarding younger students, but its more social and has nothing to do with the work that you can produce. new students ages range greatly (teens to thirties). are you in it for the potential education or the intitials after your name?

Dr Arch I have the same reaction, but it's been recommended a few times by unrelated people... I would try to apply while applying for masters programs (Cooper Union is free!)

fku2 - definitely in it for the education... (there are plenty of initials to be had for much less trouble) which is why working with Ugrads worries me, just because I've been an undergrad & remember what that's like. But they have such a great faculty & i wonder if you almost get more time with them b/c there are only a handful of older students.

Sounds like i should give'em a call

theres no value in getting a second bachelors over a masters....

over_under.
if its true that the Cooper Union gives a full scholarhip to all it students...then your right "theres no value" at least financially..

conormac - go for the cooper, I would........

Last time I checked Cooper had just started a masters program. There was nothing of it on their website so it might be worth a call.

You need to apply for M.Arch programs for undergrads that have unrelated degrees. I tried to apply for the undergrad after I completed a BBA in Marketing, and they told me I didn't fit; I needed to apply for the Masters Program for "career change" students.

Believe me, if you're putting in the additional work, you want the Masters.

would the same apply for someone who has a previous non-pro arch degree? If so I guess I can cross them off my list.

I think I'll just call them one of these days.

According to the NAAB website, the Cooper Union only offers the accredited Bachelor of Architecture. I would definitely be in touch with them about their Master of Architecture

Cooper Union, The The Irwin S. Chanin School of Architecture
http://archweb.cooper.edu/

Cooper Union, The
The Irwin S. Chanin School of Architecture
Cooper Square
New York, NY 10003-7183

212.353.4220 (tel)
212.353.4009 (fax)

Contact Information
Anthony Vidler
Dean

Accreditation Information
Degree 1. Bachelor of Architecture
Track B. Arch. (5 years)
Next Visit 2010
History Accredited since 1965/66.

coopers m arch program is an m arch II, so a post-professional degree only available to those with a professional architecture degree and also some work experience.

without divulging too much information, i am an 'older' student doing my second undergraduate degree at cooper and actually, my second degree in architecture. while frustrations (daily) do exist, the fact is that my life is being transformed and a world i never thought existed is revealing itself to me. it has been quite a beautiful experience thus far. furthermore, your peers, while several years younger, will be some of the smartest people you will ever meet. my classmates are brilliant.

no degree, whether m arch or b arch or whatever, is a replacement for the unique environs at cooper.

agree with uhhhhh, I graduated a long time ago with a BFA in architecture and applied to the top 5 schools including Cooper. I got into most schools for a MArch and into Cooper. At that time all the people that I wanted to study with where at Cooper. It was a no brainer. I have not regretted at all. The school has changed, but all schools change, students change, but there is one thing that doesn't change and that is your ability to focus into a profession that rewards you very little in monetary terms, but assures that what you are investigating is worth every single moment of time you put into it, during school and as you practice.

As a friend once said, you are going to be 30, 40 anyway, why not turn 30, 40 with an architecture degree from Cooper?

@ uhhhh and nosduh. I am very interested in applying to the Cooper Union for either a b.arch or m.arch II, and was hoping perhaps you could shed some light on a question between the two very different degrees. Essentially, the question is if I am very interested in working with specific faculty members during my period of study, would it be prudent to apply for the b.arch and participate in faculty run studios, or to get an m.arch from a different institution and subsequently apply for the m.arch II which I imagine engenders a slightly more personal relationship with the advising faculty. Do either of you have any firsthand knowledge regarding the differences between the two degrees (beyond the obvious differences of research specificity and time investment)? I understand you both have been or are currently involved in the b.arch program, but do you have any advice on which of the two to endeavor in if I were to pursue one or the other?

loop, I don't have an understanding of the march II program other than it is NOT a professional degree and I think it is geared for research.

It is a new program.

Why don't you call and set up an appointment to talk to someone at the school.

They would be better to advise you.

loop, I don't have an understanding of the march II program other than it is NOT a professional degree and I think it is geared for research.

It is a new program.

Why don't you call and set up an appointment to talk to someone at the school.

They would be better to advise you.

to uhhhh & nosduh & all other transfer students with non-professional arch degree,
what year did they place you in cooper union when you transfered?
I'm in the same boat.. i have a 4 yr b.sc arch degree with a few years work experience & looking to apply to cooper b.arch program as a transfer student & hoping i will get accepted as a 4th or 5th year student.. actually 5th year placement will be most ideal.
thanks, hope i can hear some responses

michacw - I received a BFA from RISD - 4 years, if I went back for my 5th year I would have received my BArch. I decided to go to Cooper because of the teachers and education, NOT for a degree.

Would I wish to have a Masters, sometimes, not because of I would make more money. I always knew I would work for myself not in a firm. Ast for teaching, now a days, schools want Phd's. not saying you have to have a Masters to teach or can teach.

We all know too many incompetent teachers who have gone to big name schools and know really nothing in regards to expanding the knowledge base and not just regurgitating the latest magazine cover.

I think I should stop now.

(hoping i will get accepted as a 4th or 5th year student.. actually 5th year placement will be most ideal.)

I think you just want the name rather than the education. One or two years at any place is not enough time to learn. I was placed in second year, but moved into third. I stayed 4 years at Cooper.

I don't know what school you are coming from with a BSc, but I would recommend you take a look at the end of year show, which is up right now.

I think you will see what I am talking about.

Look at what the second year studio is doing then move up the Thesis and then the Master's program.

In fact everyone should go and check it out.

first of all, i'd like to thank you for taking time to respond.

Altho the name doesn't hurt, what important to me actually is the education, teachers, city, and the network the name brings.
my consideration to wanting to be accepted as a 4th year b.arch student, is mostly financial.
As you know living in nyc is not exactly cheap.
the other consideration is my age, considering that I would be 27 next year & to repeat 4 years would be kinda..dare i say, redundant?.. while like you said could go to a m.arch I program instead.

to me cu seems a bit more mysterious than other top schools. in terms of the student works available to us online. by us i mean non-ny resident/ ppl from other countries.

Yes living in NYC is not cheap, but living anywhere else and paying tuition isn't cheap these days.

I have many friends who graduated later in life (?) in their thirties. My wife graduated at 39, another friend went back to school and could have literally gone anywhere, money no object, but went to Cooper and graduated at 37.

As I mentioned you will be 40 anyway, do you want to be 40 with or without a degree from Cooper or Harvard or Yale?

Remember all this is based upon getting admitted.

Cooper admits 7% and transfer students even tougher.

Cooper is not mysterious - see the books - education of an architect I and II. Besides the teachers, both past and present, Alumni Deans to the very top schools - Harvard, Princeton, Cranbrook, other schools NYIT, Pratt, RPI,
(off the top of my head)

Granted if you are not in NY you can't see the current work, but I would say to you, a trip to NY for a few days staying in a hostel or a cheap hotel to see Cooper, Columbia and /or Pratt would help solidify your decision.

As for another 4 years, I don't think education is redundant, you will be learning forever, if that is what you choose.

I went through this decision making when I had to. I have not regretted it at all. I certainly would do it again. Some people choose something different and that is OK as well, remember I was fortunate to be accepted.

Many people don't get the opportunity. Doesn't mean you don't try.

I can empathize with your concerns michacw; I was asking very similar questions myself, and honestly, not everything is perfect here. NYC is killer expensive, especially if you can't fall back on a college fund or personal savings. I scrape by and miss the consistent paycheck, eating out, and clothes purchasing I once did; it is a serious lifestyle change.

Because of this dramatic shift, the first year was rather difficult for me emotionally. However, by the start of second year, I was well situated, happy and inspired. I also began to align myself with professors and students that I found in similar taste and that helped a great deal. I don't regret my decision for a second and am in, for the first time ever, the perfect institution for me.

To answer your other question, I have a 4-year B.S. in Architecture, and three years teaching and working experience. I was placed in first year, but am grateful to have even gotten in as the acceptance rate that year was just over 3%.

Uhhhhh, if you don't mind me asking, did your transfer portfolio include more art works than architecture projects from your previous school?

Uhhhhh, if you don't mind me asking, did your transfer portfolio include more art works than architecture projects from your previous school?

I have done very few art projects, so the portfolio was mostly architecture. The problem was, however, that I severely over-edited my work. I removed all professional work, and put in only very selective images and drawings of schoolwork. I also omitted my resumé at the last minute. It made for a compelling graphic but not a convincing one for means of transferring.

The home test is still the greatest element of the application however. I would say 70%+.

nosduh & uhhhhh thanks for your input.

i will keep in mind to include professional work.
altho someone tried to convince me before that for grad school, admissions actually want to see your schoolwork more than professional work, as in professional work you may not have much say in things or in the design. admissions wud like to see how you think critically in solving problems in your design..

you make me realized nosduh in asking whether i would like to be 40 with or without a degree from cooper union :)

yes, your personal work is more important, but the professional work gives you some leverage in regards to transferring higher up.

just as a quick example, all the transfers who applied as i did, and put professional work in, were placed at least one year above myself. they're not that heartless in admissions i guess.

A change in Deans, changes the culture of the school.
When I applied I had 2 years working experience and showed none of the work.
I had a lot of freehand drawings and life drawings as well as most of my school projects - the better ones.

IMHO - It's still an amazing place!