(I can't believe I am actually posting a political thread)
Being an Astrology Buff, I am fascinated by the Saturn-Uranus Opposition occurring on Election Day... even the most ardent astrologers are debating the possibilities of this Nov. 4th scenario, ranging from predictions of violence on Obama to dramatic occurrences with polling electronics. As much as I despise low brow political dialogue, I have to admit that this election is sizing up to be a one of the most defining moments of American History, at least according to the stars.
Many Presidential Administrations had Astrologers throughout history. Even the Architects and Planners of Washington, DC laid thing out and timed things in accordance with specific Astrological significance.
Its fine, I don't personally care if you think its garbage, but I do mention it here, as it is fascinating, to me anyway. (i.e. If you look at the chart for 9/11 ,it was pretty crazy too)
I concur that today, horoscopes are largely agreed upon as cute and frivolous things found in every newspaper. You have a right to an opinion of course. Usefulness of Astrology lies in the beholder. Fact is, use of Astrology predates the Masonic Implementation of it in the planning of DC. Egyptian, Greek, and Chinese history reveals evidence of their use of it. I guess if I cared enough I could craft some responce in defense of the existence of Ontological lineages of the Meta-Physical Planes tieing into Unified Field Sciences or Quantum Physics. like all those books in the 80s did......but I think I ll just accept that you , have your opinion as such. Such mundane language ("bs") doesn't invite debateful spirit.
My only point is that.....if anyone ever did care to look...They might notice that the Charts for the upcoming election day and the current Economic "rectification" in America all have correspondingly dramatic charts. I could care less if any you "believe in" it. It exists on its own terms.
"Astrology and astronomy were often indistinguishable before the modern era..."
so the modern era moved astronomy into the "scientific" arena and made sure to disparage any talk of astronomy, just as "scientific" Western medicine poo-poos any other long standing traditions of medicine - like acupuncture - which do no fit its definition.
"Astrology can be defined as the study of the positions of celestial bodies in the belief that their movements either directly influence life on Earth or correspond somehow to events experienced on a human scale."
tell me what it is about the statement I made above that does not fit that definition of astrology.
jeffe, you're just playing the typical semantics game to pigeonhole things as good or bullshit, i.e. if you call it this, then it's ok, if you call it that then it's bullshit. The fact is, even if much of the hocus pocus astrological nonsense going on today is just that (like trying to predict the future), astrology is ingrained in the history and literature and thinking of many of the world's cultures and is IN NO WAY bullshit...it's at the very least part of history.
Saturn in Libra is typically about the "rectification" of what is out of bounds or broken. Historically, Saturn was in Libra from 10/1921 to 9/1924, from 11/1950 to 10/1953, from 9/1980 to 8/1983, and from 10/2009 to 10/2012. I am not going to speculate on here, a I must leave it to the Astrologers...We all agree that we don't need astrology to see that happening , as we speak....but the structure of the American economy is obviously being broken down so that it can be rebuilt.
What's the significance of all the Saturn's at the dealership facing only either North or South? This raises another question - what's the link between these Saturn's and all the world's cows behaving in the same way?
Is this phenomenon astrological, astronomical or simply due to an internal, innate ability in cows and Saturn's to sense the earth's magnetic field?
if you're satisfied with that definition of astrology, emilio, then anything is attributable to astrology depending upon the astrologer's rhetorical skillz.
ah, just busting your chops, jeffe...I think it's mostly nonsense myself...I just like to argue the opposite point for the hell of it sometimes. I do stand by the point that celestial bodies do have proven effects on life of Earth, just not what most astrologists think it is (and I don't really care what you call that, just semantics...astronomy? fine).
I hope everyone apriciate that I want to be tolerent towerds what is anything else, than astrology -- realy if I belived astrology I could just aswell stop develobing. Also architecture is an art, meaning the art to put chaps together into a mashin to live in , genuine in structure as paneling, and not some phony image of what you expect.
This only prove the povers to see what you want this astrology, and the same decifiring I am sure, would counter a number of results.
Offcaurse it is possible that astrology are right, but realy, --- what when we progress to other planets ; are astrology then to refere some actural calculated image of the sky on earth ? -- Shal the sky rather be read from on site posision on say Mars ? How can that make a house.
el jeffe, you bore me.
I can see you fancy yourself as "the boss" and that you are standard veteran here on Archinect,... (for so long no one bothers to argue with you)..must be comforting. ... but frankly speaking , here you have not documented any argumentative propositions. You can call things bullshit or irrational, but it doesn;t do much, does it?. I admit this thread is a flop: my fault for poor judgment on Thread topics. So shoot me. But your going on about "bs" and "irrationality" is just impotent so far. I guess I expected more from such established old timers as yourself than just calling 'shenanigans' on topics they never bothered to research.
ff33, I'm an absolute believer in material things exerting influence on human psyches, I've pretty much based my entire design philosophy on that notion. So it would seem I should be one to believe that the physical relationships of planets could exert some kind of influence. Certainly the moon makes the tides, yes. So the relative locations of the planets should seem to exert some physical influence on the earth - and other planets - as well.
That said, I can't recall a single instance of astrology that didn't come from, to stereotype terribly, some kind of hippy. And I love hippies, too, so that's not necessarily a condemnation!
But has there ever been a scientist, say, someone at NASA, who states that astrology is real, that the physical arrangement of the planets exerts influence on our behaviors and personalities? Influence that isn't learned via culture, as I believe *most* material responses are?
the red carpet makes it look like that dead dude bled out
the diagonal shadow/light from lower left to upper right
one dude is vertical the other horizontal
wearing all black/ wearing white
alive/dead
in the shadows there is nothing, on the table in the light is all the crap that dead guy left behind
and the way the two guys are 'looking' at each other and they look (in a way) like the same person
yes LB , (I am regretting ever broaching the subject) but, i see what you are saying. I see your point about material things exerting influence on human psyches (Psychologies abound). From an non-Astrologer's perspective, definitions of the influence of physical planets can be easily demonstrated in things like Tides, and Menstrual Cycles, and so on. I know we have to accept that the Physical Plane is where we all live and by default , define as the root of all Ontological Existence here. I am also reminded that the earth was once thought of as flat. Physics doesn't always have a clear proposition of which force is causing which effect, it is now being viewed more as holistic continuum. It is not hard to go an djust study recent articles on Quantum Mechanics, M Theory, and so on to see that Psychology and Epistemology are in many instances disparate from the same suggestions from the standpoint of Ontolgoy and Cosmology. To assume our minds are impressed by some mystical force in the heavens is beyond my own skills of "rationality". I do however suggest that these Planetary signatures should not be dismissed, just becasue of a personalized, epistemological limit of an individual. Claims of greater intelligences at play in the immediate universe are controversial and don't play well on Architecture blogs, I know....and I am sorry.
Normally it would never matter,. but I just thought the Election was of such significance that I would venture these words here, a common place for me too lately. ( I guess I saw so many Obama threads I wanted to join the party. I should have just stuck with Architecture as a topic.)
I do not know of any NASA scientist that study Astrology. I only know of a few historical Architects ( L'Enfant) and some various Presidents that employed it.
show me any observational research that forms the basis for the astrological charts.
why planets? what's so special about them aside from their 'mysteriousness'. just because we didn't know jack shit about the universe when this crap was created doesn't mean it has any validity. what about sun spots? what about comets? what about pulsars? what about black holes? what about dark matter? none of that was known when astrology was developed.
why not read tea leaves? how is it any different from what you believe to be true?
actually, relatively speaking, we still don't know jack shit about the universe, where it came from, why it's here, even with knowing about the wonderful things you listed.
Shou'd i "Show...observational research" on why Jeezus is comin' back soon too. :-) I really just wanted to talk about Obamas chart, but whatever...
Come on el jeff, I am not the one to hold your hand and explain topics dealing with the Western Mysteries. There is plenty of literature on the Kabalah, to start, I dunno...there is so much to read, i cant name it all. I got into it when i started my Sacred Geometry studies, this led me to subjects such as Mathematics , Freemasonry, Architecture, and the 7 liberal arts. I soon was studying many related subjects: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_mystery_tradition
I am sorry you are not familiar with these teachings, but i appreciate your grace in allowing them to exist without your personality actually knowing of them. You do bring up good points though,... what if we could actually observe and register all historical and cultural phenomena through time, somehow. Not yet anyway....
I could also go around accusing of others Cosmological/ Ontological foundations of lacking in Rationales, but I don;t.
In all fairness, can we just let this thread die, I feel responsible fo rit for some reason, but you guys don't really care about it..it just superficial dribble at this point.
A Sarah Palin thread over at Design Addict (graciously allowed by the site owners despite the usual ban on controversial and design-irrelevant subjects) soon turned into an energetic debate on religion and politics.
What do you suppose is the statistical correlation between religion and astrology ? That is, what is the overlap, if any, in belief in the two disciplines, religion and astrology ?
While not really a believer in either, myself, I was impressed by the apparent number of "hits" in the description of my own sign, in Linda Goodman's "Sun Signs," which someone loaned me in college.
Is there some way to illustrate the unusual forecast for election day ?
Election Day Astrology
(I can't believe I am actually posting a political thread)
Being an Astrology Buff, I am fascinated by the Saturn-Uranus Opposition occurring on Election Day... even the most ardent astrologers are debating the possibilities of this Nov. 4th scenario, ranging from predictions of violence on Obama to dramatic occurrences with polling electronics. As much as I despise low brow political dialogue, I have to admit that this election is sizing up to be a one of the most defining moments of American History, at least according to the stars.
This is just one of the many articles written on the subject.
http://www.utne.com/2008-06-20/Spirituality/Astrological-Disaster-Looms-In-Obama-McCain-Election.aspx?blogid=28
what's your sign?
obama
is that an earth, air, water, or fire sign?
Pita
This isn't even a "low brow" political thread. This is garbage.
Why is astrology garbage in your opinion?
Many Presidential Administrations had Astrologers throughout history. Even the Architects and Planners of Washington, DC laid thing out and timed things in accordance with specific Astrological significance.
astrology, being a predictive human endeavor should have some 'success' at predicting future events.
unfortunately, it doesn't have any success.
do you also believe in scape-goating, ritualistic human sacrifice, or reading entrails? if not, why?
Chill out. Astrology is just literature that hasn't happened yet. It's a way of generating stories.
Put down the pitchforks and torches, it ain't gonna hurt ya.
The moon governs ocean tides and, in many cultures, the planting and harvesting of crops....that's astrological and not garbage.
Yes, yes, I am a witch doctor...
anyway..the articles are out there..and the history of Astrology is not uncommon in Politics and Washington.
Ovason's Book on DC Architecture and Planning
Its fine, I don't personally care if you think its garbage, but I do mention it here, as it is fascinating, to me anyway. (i.e. If you look at the chart for 9/11 ,it was pretty crazy too)
emilio,
that's astronomical not astrological.
astrology is complete bullshit.
a cute way to kill some time for some; a serious hindrance to rational thinking for others.
are you seriously appealing to the plan of dc as a means of justifying the usefulness of astrology??
I concur that today, horoscopes are largely agreed upon as cute and frivolous things found in every newspaper. You have a right to an opinion of course. Usefulness of Astrology lies in the beholder. Fact is, use of Astrology predates the Masonic Implementation of it in the planning of DC. Egyptian, Greek, and Chinese history reveals evidence of their use of it. I guess if I cared enough I could craft some responce in defense of the existence of Ontological lineages of the Meta-Physical Planes tieing into Unified Field Sciences or Quantum Physics. like all those books in the 80s did......but I think I ll just accept that you , have your opinion as such. Such mundane language ("bs") doesn't invite debateful spirit.
My only point is that.....if anyone ever did care to look...They might notice that the Charts for the upcoming election day and the current Economic "rectification" in America all have correspondingly dramatic charts. I could care less if any you "believe in" it. It exists on its own terms.
when do the charts say the economy will turn around?
so the modern era moved astronomy into the "scientific" arena and made sure to disparage any talk of astronomy, just as "scientific" Western medicine poo-poos any other long standing traditions of medicine - like acupuncture - which do no fit its definition.
"Astrology can be defined as the study of the positions of celestial bodies in the belief that their movements either directly influence life on Earth or correspond somehow to events experienced on a human scale."
tell me what it is about the statement I made above that does not fit that definition of astrology.
jeffe, you're just playing the typical semantics game to pigeonhole things as good or bullshit, i.e. if you call it this, then it's ok, if you call it that then it's bullshit. The fact is, even if much of the hocus pocus astrological nonsense going on today is just that (like trying to predict the future), astrology is ingrained in the history and literature and thinking of many of the world's cultures and is IN NO WAY bullshit...it's at the very least part of history.
made sure to disparage any talk of astrology...
Saturn in Libra is typically about the "rectification" of what is out of bounds or broken. Historically, Saturn was in Libra from 10/1921 to 9/1924, from 11/1950 to 10/1953, from 9/1980 to 8/1983, and from 10/2009 to 10/2012. I am not going to speculate on here, a I must leave it to the Astrologers...We all agree that we don't need astrology to see that happening , as we speak....but the structure of the American economy is obviously being broken down so that it can be rebuilt.
What's the significance of all the Saturn's at the dealership facing only either North or South? This raises another question - what's the link between these Saturn's and all the world's cows behaving in the same way?
Is this phenomenon astrological, astronomical or simply due to an internal, innate ability in cows and Saturn's to sense the earth's magnetic field?
"...correspond somehow..."
if you're satisfied with that definition of astrology, emilio, then anything is attributable to astrology depending upon the astrologer's rhetorical skillz.
meaningless.
haha, you guys are funny...
cayne1: LOL, such silliness! ;-)
check out www.astrologyzone.com - it's worth a read even if just to keep your spirits up.
ah, just busting your chops, jeffe...I think it's mostly nonsense myself...I just like to argue the opposite point for the hell of it sometimes. I do stand by the point that celestial bodies do have proven effects on life of Earth, just not what most astrologists think it is (and I don't really care what you call that, just semantics...astronomy? fine).
I hope everyone apriciate that I want to be tolerent towerds what is anything else, than astrology -- realy if I belived astrology I could just aswell stop develobing. Also architecture is an art, meaning the art to put chaps together into a mashin to live in , genuine in structure as paneling, and not some phony image of what you expect.
This only prove the povers to see what you want this astrology, and the same decifiring I am sure, would counter a number of results.
Offcaurse it is possible that astrology are right, but realy, --- what when we progress to other planets ; are astrology then to refere some actural calculated image of the sky on earth ? -- Shal the sky rather be read from on site posision on say Mars ? How can that make a house.
"How can that make a house." True, per, very true.
Note to self:
Any future notions of discussion of Astrological significance doesn;t mix well with Archinect Veterans.
Seni, the astrologer, stands by Wallenstein's dead body. He knew Wallenstein's fate yet he could not prevent it.
how fitting.
it doesn't mix well with anyone who values rationality.
el jeffe, you bore me.
I can see you fancy yourself as "the boss" and that you are standard veteran here on Archinect,... (for so long no one bothers to argue with you)..must be comforting. ... but frankly speaking , here you have not documented any argumentative propositions. You can call things bullshit or irrational, but it doesn;t do much, does it?. I admit this thread is a flop: my fault for poor judgment on Thread topics. So shoot me. But your going on about "bs" and "irrationality" is just impotent so far. I guess I expected more from such established old timers as yourself than just calling 'shenanigans' on topics they never bothered to research.
ff33, I'm an absolute believer in material things exerting influence on human psyches, I've pretty much based my entire design philosophy on that notion. So it would seem I should be one to believe that the physical relationships of planets could exert some kind of influence. Certainly the moon makes the tides, yes. So the relative locations of the planets should seem to exert some physical influence on the earth - and other planets - as well.
That said, I can't recall a single instance of astrology that didn't come from, to stereotype terribly, some kind of hippy. And I love hippies, too, so that's not necessarily a condemnation!
But has there ever been a scientist, say, someone at NASA, who states that astrology is real, that the physical arrangement of the planets exerts influence on our behaviors and personalities? Influence that isn't learned via culture, as I believe *most* material responses are?
that painting is beautiful
the red carpet makes it look like that dead dude bled out
the diagonal shadow/light from lower left to upper right
one dude is vertical the other horizontal
wearing all black/ wearing white
alive/dead
in the shadows there is nothing, on the table in the light is all the crap that dead guy left behind
and the way the two guys are 'looking' at each other and they look (in a way) like the same person
amazing
yes LB , (I am regretting ever broaching the subject) but, i see what you are saying. I see your point about material things exerting influence on human psyches (Psychologies abound). From an non-Astrologer's perspective, definitions of the influence of physical planets can be easily demonstrated in things like Tides, and Menstrual Cycles, and so on. I know we have to accept that the Physical Plane is where we all live and by default , define as the root of all Ontological Existence here. I am also reminded that the earth was once thought of as flat. Physics doesn't always have a clear proposition of which force is causing which effect, it is now being viewed more as holistic continuum. It is not hard to go an djust study recent articles on Quantum Mechanics, M Theory, and so on to see that Psychology and Epistemology are in many instances disparate from the same suggestions from the standpoint of Ontolgoy and Cosmology. To assume our minds are impressed by some mystical force in the heavens is beyond my own skills of "rationality". I do however suggest that these Planetary signatures should not be dismissed, just becasue of a personalized, epistemological limit of an individual. Claims of greater intelligences at play in the immediate universe are controversial and don't play well on Architecture blogs, I know....and I am sorry.
Normally it would never matter,. but I just thought the Election was of such significance that I would venture these words here, a common place for me too lately. ( I guess I saw so many Obama threads I wanted to join the party. I should have just stuck with Architecture as a topic.)
I do not know of any NASA scientist that study Astrology. I only know of a few historical Architects ( L'Enfant) and some various Presidents that employed it.
show me any observational research that forms the basis for the astrological charts.
why planets? what's so special about them aside from their 'mysteriousness'. just because we didn't know jack shit about the universe when this crap was created doesn't mean it has any validity. what about sun spots? what about comets? what about pulsars? what about black holes? what about dark matter? none of that was known when astrology was developed.
why not read tea leaves? how is it any different from what you believe to be true?
actually, relatively speaking, we still don't know jack shit about the universe, where it came from, why it's here, even with knowing about the wonderful things you listed.
Shou'd i "Show...observational research" on why Jeezus is comin' back soon too. :-) I really just wanted to talk about Obamas chart, but whatever...
Come on el jeff, I am not the one to hold your hand and explain topics dealing with the Western Mysteries. There is plenty of literature on the Kabalah, to start, I dunno...there is so much to read, i cant name it all. I got into it when i started my Sacred Geometry studies, this led me to subjects such as Mathematics , Freemasonry, Architecture, and the 7 liberal arts. I soon was studying many related subjects: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_mystery_tradition
I am sorry you are not familiar with these teachings, but i appreciate your grace in allowing them to exist without your personality actually knowing of them. You do bring up good points though,... what if we could actually observe and register all historical and cultural phenomena through time, somehow. Not yet anyway....
I could also go around accusing of others Cosmological/ Ontological foundations of lacking in Rationales, but I don;t.
In all fairness, can we just let this thread die, I feel responsible fo rit for some reason, but you guys don't really care about it..it just superficial dribble at this point.
A Sarah Palin thread over at Design Addict (graciously allowed by the site owners despite the usual ban on controversial and design-irrelevant subjects) soon turned into an energetic debate on religion and politics.
What do you suppose is the statistical correlation between religion and astrology ? That is, what is the overlap, if any, in belief in the two disciplines, religion and astrology ?
While not really a believer in either, myself, I was impressed by the apparent number of "hits" in the description of my own sign, in Linda Goodman's "Sun Signs," which someone loaned me in college.
Is there some way to illustrate the unusual forecast for election day ?
since this was bumped, i'll point out the jupiter saturn conjunction brings with it tecumesh's revenge.
I wonder if the OP ever grew up and abandoned this silly superstitious junk.
Tomorrow 2nd round presidential elections in Poland! Really hope Trzaskowski can defeat PiS/Duda...
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