A trade union or labor union is "a continuous association of wage-earners for the purpose of maintaining or improving the conditions of their employment."[1]
Over the last three hundred years, trade unions have developed into a number of forms, influenced by differing political and economic regimes. The immediate objectives and activities of trade unions vary, but may include:
Provision of benefits to members: Early trade unions, like Friendly Societies, often provided a range of benefits to insure members against unemployment, ill health, old age and funeral expenses. In many developed countries, these functions have been assumed by the state; however, the provision of professional training, legal advice and representation for members is still an important benefit of trade union membership.
Collective bargaining: Where trade unions are able to operate openly and are recognized by employers, they may negotiate with employers over wages and working conditions.
Industrial action: Trade unions may organize strikes or resistance to lockouts in furtherance of particular goals.
Political activity: Trade unions may promote legislation favorable to the interests of their members or workers as a whole. To this end they may pursue campaigns, undertake lobbying, or financially support individual candidates or parties (such as the Labour Party in Britain) for public office.
Yes, we would have to go on strike...all of us. What would the effect be on society?
I'm always conflicted about unions because, in theory, it's a great way to prevent abuse. On the other hand I think so many of them are so mismanaged and corrupt, that the worker ends up falling prey to mob-like intimidation; paying inflated dues for rules and regulations that just hold you back, fear of losing pension because of corruption, and limiting your options because you can only do union jobs, etc. Also, a union doesn't work unless everyone participates. If employers have alternatives to hire- what would they care if you went on strike. ...but, you can get paid well w/ good benefits and job security...
I just can't imagine getting that many people to do it. It's like AIA itself would have to unionize.
Anyway, you're asking for solutions and it's the only think I could think of. I mean the things we complain about are the exact reasons unions started in the first place (though under much harsher circumstances). Like guilds, unions were to ensure fair and safe working environments.
now everyone can laugh at me and call me ridiculous, but I'm just trying to offer something.
and i appreciate it, however if all the architects went on strike all that would happen is engineers/contractors would still design/build buildings for clients, really horrifying ones at that.
unions killed the auto big 3..........go figure..... over paid lazy asses that drive a damn golf cart around the factory making 38bones an hour....wtf...
and i met this guy that goes alias/photoshop design for one of the auto studios..... well, he drives around in a porshe 911...wtf......
and regarding unions: i don't think 'society' would care if we went on strike. our employers, though, would tank in no time. so let's think about this relative to other businesses you know that have gone union: are the employers any better off than we are? i doubt more than about 30% of us could answer that in the affirmative.
consider the pilot's unions at the various airlines that have gone through bankruptcy -- unionization didn't help them much, beyond driving their companies into bankruptcy. look, the overall economics of our profession suck -- it's largely a matter of supply and demand, poor bargaining power, and very low productivity. unionization won't have any positive impact on those overall economics, any more than the pilot's union enable the airlines to charge higher fares. unionization will have an adverse affect on the ability of individual firm's to make a profit and to compete against foreign competition.
consider also the fact that the vast majority of people entering our profession will, one day, probably become owners in a firm ... while you may favor unionization while an intern, i suspect you won't favor it when you're in your fifties and trying to make payroll and negotiate high enough fees to cover the costs of doing business.
if you truly believe unionization is the answer, you probably also have to believe the people you work for are dishonest and deliberately taking advantage of you when they could be paying you lots more or providing your lots more benefits. all I can say about that is based on 30 years of experience in this industry. even after all of that time, I know very few design firm principals who I would consider "well off" as a result of their work and very, very few that I would consider anything but honorable -- all complain about the earnings potential in our profession and all feel pretty much as you do ... "architecture's the worst paid job in the world'.
its that student in your aarch school or studio that was so incredible with his work - so concise, conceptually advanced with accompanying drawings and renderings that were mind-blowing - several levels above everyone else - THOSE (i'm not excluding myself from that list...ahhhem) are the ones messing it up for everyone else.
why?
well think about it - theyre blinded by their own passion to the point where some fickle architect figured out that they'd work for peanuts as long as they exorcised their architectural ferocity on every project and projected their talent to promote said fickle architect's firm to that of a starchitect level.
yet - theyre paid peanuts, and dont really care, because theyre paid in satisfaction of design - and theres A LOT of you supertalented archies out there doing it - unwilling to face the idea that money, not passion, makes this world turn. 5 years undergrad, attending lectures by mayne, studying in prague for 2 years grad, returning to head a project making..say...54k a year with promises for "advancement" within a year. unacceptable standard of compensation for such achievements...
dont get me wrong - i was at the top of my studio - but i knew damn well who was better than i thruout school. i befriended them and realized that they had no f'in clue about anything outside those studio walls.
heres the reverse: all the SHITTY students i knew - some friends even - are making BRICKS of money. why? they figured out that they werent that good - made it out, and with the knowledge they acquired while most of us were bustin ass in studio, found a position better suited for them, but with an arch degree. i mean - one of them is head of a graphics department for a pharmaceutical department 4 years out of arch school undergrad. (wtf??)
and i'm not all about the benjamins. i just want to be able to live my life with the people that count. not work to live. and to be able to live a half decent life without financial burden, ya kinda need to fund it. unfortunately.
cryzko, I think the big three auto will still be in trouble even after they force their unions to accept lower wages and benefits. Not to tangentalize, but I couldn't resist...Ignore this post!
1. Food
2. clothing
3. shelter
4. motorcycles, other vehicles, insurance, maintenance, gas etc.
5. taxes
6. health insurance
As long as (between myself and wife) we can make those bills, I feel pretty rich. Visit other less fortunate countries sometime, gets you a new perspective on how truly rich we are here.
I've said this before, I'll say it again. I don't think architects are underpaid, I think we compare ourselves to other professions that are severely overpaid - mortgage brokers, developers, and realtors are the top ones that make my blood boil.
Architecture is also actually a pretty slack job, isn't it? Sometimes I get some deadlines, have to work some overtime, solve some issues, yada yada. But 80% of the time it is pretty stress free.
excellent observation Strawberry - after having worked on the construction side the presure of an architect's office is much lower than the pressure of knowing that people, equipment, materials are flying all over the metro area and that every little decision can be thousands of lost dollars - at least we have pencils or erase comands.
Also keep in mind, that not very many people require the services of an architect. Lawyers, doctors, accountants, and dentists are far more in demand than architects.
Right now, I think we should be counting our blessings with what we have. It could be far worse.
vado's right about architects' inability to unionize, and really unionizing architecture is a silly thought, but it grinds me to hear principles making excuses about the miniscule wages they pay their interns.
it reminds me of when i first started interning and had to fold shop drawings for three straight days; the project architect comes up and says, "hey, we all had to do it." use your noodle, dillweed, do the damn things really need to be folded in the first place? similarly is that extra 5K really gonna affect your bottom line? what you get in return for that money is an employee who values the company he or she is working for. it's a reciprocal relationship. the "we all had to do it" excuse is just that, an excuse...
hm. most of the things 'we all had to do' are really worth doing and i still do them on a regular basis. would we rather our interns just never get it right?
Unions didn’t kill the auto big 3 it was bad management at the head of the big three and inflexibility. You see it today. Unions are less powerful in the auto industry why is Toyota is soon to be the number one auto manufacture in the United States. Not because of Unions.
I know plenty of architects that do well.
Simple economics…..I suggest that there are fewer guys doing the alias/Photoshop design car design stuff than there are architects. Per capita per industry. Simple supply and demand.
On topic---- it would seem that to raise the value of architects it needs to become more accessible.
This was supposed to be the mandate of the “new” A.I.A.
Architecture is a luxury for most people they have no base connection to its world. The built environment for the most part is terrible and therefore what Joe on the street is used to is crap. Most people have no value system by which to judge Architecture and therefore have no understanding that it is something that has a significant value, is important and should be paid for.
Half my work is education not students in academia but the client. This is money and time that is never recouped but if you care about what you build then it is unavoidable. Why do this work otherewise.
Consider that medical graduates spend 3 to 6 years or more working for under 50,000 dollars as residents and fellows before making the six figure incomes. A talented architect with that amount of post graduate school experience should be able to command better pay if that is their concern by being innovative, and, this can include non-archi work. On the other hand, if money and not job satisfaction is the motivation for considering a vocation, I suggest people look at the income data before applying to Archi schools. My guess is that very good architects become finacially well rewarded.
with the folding shops issue, the person in charge needs to ask, "why am i asking someone to do this?" in that instance, the building was completed. the architect wanted the shops archived in the off chance of litigation (the .0000000001% chance). i personally am not any better off for having folded shops for three straight days. the client was billed for work that was completely unnecessary. i was removed from jobs that were more pressing. in fact, after that third day, the principle intervened and told the architect that this work was a waste of time. which it was. but because that project architect had this hazing mentality of "we all had to do it" the company ended up suffering for it.
here's a question:
maybe I'm naive because I've only looked for a design job in LA (where salaries are a bit higher), but who the hell accepts a job for $30,000 a year once they have a degree? Is that all that's available in some areas?
on the lines of what Kyll said...
When I was interviewing for my first job, I disqualified companies that offered me less that $40k, and that was w/ a BFA in IA and in ID positions, because I couldn't live on less. Now I've switched to the construction side (work for a sub) I see how much more money there is over here. I asked for a 12.5% wage increase to start and they more didn't even blink. in fact, I pretty sure i could have got at least another $5k out of them.
(and don't say that ID makes more than arch because statistically, it isn't true- especially in entry level jobs.)
i was looking into another career field a while back (still am). I had a phone interview with the person who was going to potentially hire me. I asked what the starting salary was...he laughed and said it was low...I asked...he gave me the $$$ figure....more than I make 4 yrs out of school as an architect
i have uncles that worked for the big 3 for 15-20 years and they took the buy out..... they even said that the workers are wayyyy over paid for an un-skilled job..... seriously...making 17 an hour to put on lug nuts..wtf.... regular times and leave after 8hours
i dont like the while salary option that firms have offered me over the years........ i turned down a 50g a year spot because they wanted me to work 60-80 hour weeks for 4 months...wtf..... do the math on that...then they say in slow times i'll be stable...yeah...ok.... i dont give into the whole stable thing....if a company is to lay you off then you layed off....thats that...... theres no guarentee in jobs anymore....you cant work at one place for 10-15 years and expect to really get anywhere...
they are going to raise min wage to $9.10 also......
so those that are making $12 in firms, better ask for a raise.......
I agree with you in that you really cant expect to go anywhere unless you are running your own firm...I used to work in a big corporate NYC office and there were people there (in their 40's with wife and kids at home) working 80hrs a week for $45K. They were thinking that they were going to climb the ladder, but they werent. At the same time, there were many trust fund kids doing the same thing for no money...
I think it is ok to assume that arch. firms (depending on the type one works for) are like most other companies (sure, they may not pull in the same amt. of $) and if you make yourself indispensable it will probably be easier to get more money. It will, of course, always require putting in time.
I worked for a mid-size firm (before the were acquired by a large corp. firm) that was easily the most poorly run business I've ever seen (run by old-school Harvard grads). The big fish who ate us is all about the $$ and everyone seemed to do well financially (a lot of profit sharing and incentives - run by non-ivy grads).
If the business is run well then everyone should benefit. However, the perons running the business cannot be "old-school" nor can they be devoted to being 100% architect. There needs to be a happy medium of business and arch.
Hazing is old school. Cleaning dishes is old school.
From what I've seen, running a profitable biz is new school.
This is just my limited experience, but it seems like there are other avenues out there.
I think one of the things we ought to do is to make our practice more "scalable". A scalable job is a job where what you do is not linked to how many hours you work, but by how much people are willing to pay for it... that said i think every underpaid architects should find their niche markets; you can super high end furniture for example, double as housing inspectors, sell ready made plans, or work for a developer....
Is it possible for firms to wear the hats of related professions that seem to make more money. Say for instance, we finance (somehow??) our own projects and sell them. We could potentially be taking the developers and realtors commission as well as not dealing with a client.
i was always thinking about designing/building small 2 story homes and flipping them...but i would be my own client......
with all the shit getting built these days...between the the big foot homes and cookie cutters/etc...i'm sure i can doa decent family home for 120-150,000 and still make it worth while.....
considering that architecture is just a high paid art-form and most people are hesitant for paying for "art"...you just have to stick to your guns and rates..... if people really appreciate your work then need to really pay...... it's like getting surgury and saying that your only half....they wouldnt even work on you then....
if your firm does creative/clean work and are strong at it...then your shouldnt have a problem...... but if your firm sucks at designs/etc then let them scrap the bottom of the floor for the b.s. projects......
marketing/husltin' in the "art field" is really hard......... most artist dont get famous until they die......so go figure that......
i'm sure we all have our own stories/etc....but if you really have a passion for the "art" that you do, then take your stand...... and if you dont like it...then change careers and do your "art" on the side..
Architects: the worst paid job in the world
I really am getting tired of this...
We all know we get paid peanuts, WHAT DO WE DO TO FIX IT!?
Architects: The profession with the biggest chip on their shoulder
BOTS - welcome back mate. Prepared to be defeated in France.
Start a Union that's not just a network?
A trade union or labor union is "a continuous association of wage-earners for the purpose of maintaining or improving the conditions of their employment."[1]
Over the last three hundred years, trade unions have developed into a number of forms, influenced by differing political and economic regimes. The immediate objectives and activities of trade unions vary, but may include:
Provision of benefits to members: Early trade unions, like Friendly Societies, often provided a range of benefits to insure members against unemployment, ill health, old age and funeral expenses. In many developed countries, these functions have been assumed by the state; however, the provision of professional training, legal advice and representation for members is still an important benefit of trade union membership.
Collective bargaining: Where trade unions are able to operate openly and are recognized by employers, they may negotiate with employers over wages and working conditions.
Industrial action: Trade unions may organize strikes or resistance to lockouts in furtherance of particular goals.
Political activity: Trade unions may promote legislation favorable to the interests of their members or workers as a whole. To this end they may pursue campaigns, undertake lobbying, or financially support individual candidates or parties (such as the Labour Party in Britain) for public office.
What now?
How to Start a Union
(in five easy steps)
i don't think unions are the answer. What are we gonna do? Go on strike?
Yes, we would have to go on strike...all of us. What would the effect be on society?
I'm always conflicted about unions because, in theory, it's a great way to prevent abuse. On the other hand I think so many of them are so mismanaged and corrupt, that the worker ends up falling prey to mob-like intimidation; paying inflated dues for rules and regulations that just hold you back, fear of losing pension because of corruption, and limiting your options because you can only do union jobs, etc. Also, a union doesn't work unless everyone participates. If employers have alternatives to hire- what would they care if you went on strike. ...but, you can get paid well w/ good benefits and job security...
I just can't imagine getting that many people to do it. It's like AIA itself would have to unionize.
Anyway, you're asking for solutions and it's the only think I could think of. I mean the things we complain about are the exact reasons unions started in the first place (though under much harsher circumstances). Like guilds, unions were to ensure fair and safe working environments.
now everyone can laugh at me and call me ridiculous, but I'm just trying to offer something.
and i appreciate it, however if all the architects went on strike all that would happen is engineers/contractors would still design/build buildings for clients, really horrifying ones at that.
The figures on that website, differ greatly from the figures we see in the Archinect Salary poll.
unions killed the auto big 3..........go figure..... over paid lazy asses that drive a damn golf cart around the factory making 38bones an hour....wtf...
and i met this guy that goes alias/photoshop design for one of the auto studios..... well, he drives around in a porshe 911...wtf......
b
i'm sure we've made a lot of progress since 2005.
(HA!)
and regarding unions: i don't think 'society' would care if we went on strike. our employers, though, would tank in no time. so let's think about this relative to other businesses you know that have gone union: are the employers any better off than we are? i doubt more than about 30% of us could answer that in the affirmative.
all I can say is "be careful what you ask for".
consider the pilot's unions at the various airlines that have gone through bankruptcy -- unionization didn't help them much, beyond driving their companies into bankruptcy. look, the overall economics of our profession suck -- it's largely a matter of supply and demand, poor bargaining power, and very low productivity. unionization won't have any positive impact on those overall economics, any more than the pilot's union enable the airlines to charge higher fares. unionization will have an adverse affect on the ability of individual firm's to make a profit and to compete against foreign competition.
consider also the fact that the vast majority of people entering our profession will, one day, probably become owners in a firm ... while you may favor unionization while an intern, i suspect you won't favor it when you're in your fifties and trying to make payroll and negotiate high enough fees to cover the costs of doing business.
if you truly believe unionization is the answer, you probably also have to believe the people you work for are dishonest and deliberately taking advantage of you when they could be paying you lots more or providing your lots more benefits. all I can say about that is based on 30 years of experience in this industry. even after all of that time, I know very few design firm principals who I would consider "well off" as a result of their work and very, very few that I would consider anything but honorable -- all complain about the earnings potential in our profession and all feel pretty much as you do ... "architecture's the worst paid job in the world'.
"be careful what you ask for"
due to anti-trust laws, those in supervising professions cannot unionize.
I recognize that we don't often let the facts get in the way of a good argument here, but you may enjoy perusing this website: National employment and wage data from the Occupational Employment Statistics survey by occupation, May 2006
A few examples of average annual wages:
Architects: $69,790
Accountants; $60,670
Lawyers: $113,660
Interior Designers: $48,000
Graphic Designers: $43,830
Dentists: $140,950
Surgeons: $184,150
Family Doctors: $184,340
Airline Pilots; $140,380
High School Teachers: $51,150
College Literature Professors: $57,320
Clergy: $43,060
Computer Programmers: $96,440
We like to complain about working in the worst paying profession, but the data really doesn't bear that out.
Still, I wish I made more!
i think we bitch about it so much because we're encouraged to blow hundreds of thousands of dollars going to name-brand grad schools
That article is from 2005. We've maybe added 2 or 3k since then? :o)
its that student in your aarch school or studio that was so incredible with his work - so concise, conceptually advanced with accompanying drawings and renderings that were mind-blowing - several levels above everyone else - THOSE (i'm not excluding myself from that list...ahhhem) are the ones messing it up for everyone else.
why?
well think about it - theyre blinded by their own passion to the point where some fickle architect figured out that they'd work for peanuts as long as they exorcised their architectural ferocity on every project and projected their talent to promote said fickle architect's firm to that of a starchitect level.
yet - theyre paid peanuts, and dont really care, because theyre paid in satisfaction of design - and theres A LOT of you supertalented archies out there doing it - unwilling to face the idea that money, not passion, makes this world turn. 5 years undergrad, attending lectures by mayne, studying in prague for 2 years grad, returning to head a project making..say...54k a year with promises for "advancement" within a year. unacceptable standard of compensation for such achievements...
dont get me wrong - i was at the top of my studio - but i knew damn well who was better than i thruout school. i befriended them and realized that they had no f'in clue about anything outside those studio walls.
heres the reverse: all the SHITTY students i knew - some friends even - are making BRICKS of money. why? they figured out that they werent that good - made it out, and with the knowledge they acquired while most of us were bustin ass in studio, found a position better suited for them, but with an arch degree. i mean - one of them is head of a graphics department for a pharmaceutical department 4 years out of arch school undergrad. (wtf??)
and i'm not all about the benjamins. i just want to be able to live my life with the people that count. not work to live. and to be able to live a half decent life without financial burden, ya kinda need to fund it. unfortunately.
Excellent post, kyll.
cryzko, I think the big three auto will still be in trouble even after they force their unions to accept lower wages and benefits. Not to tangentalize, but I couldn't resist...Ignore this post!
1. Food
2. clothing
3. shelter
4. motorcycles, other vehicles, insurance, maintenance, gas etc.
5. taxes
6. health insurance
As long as (between myself and wife) we can make those bills, I feel pretty rich. Visit other less fortunate countries sometime, gets you a new perspective on how truly rich we are here.
I've said this before, I'll say it again. I don't think architects are underpaid, I think we compare ourselves to other professions that are severely overpaid - mortgage brokers, developers, and realtors are the top ones that make my blood boil.
Architecture is also actually a pretty slack job, isn't it? Sometimes I get some deadlines, have to work some overtime, solve some issues, yada yada. But 80% of the time it is pretty stress free.
excellent observation Strawberry - after having worked on the construction side the presure of an architect's office is much lower than the pressure of knowing that people, equipment, materials are flying all over the metro area and that every little decision can be thousands of lost dollars - at least we have pencils or erase comands.
Also keep in mind, that not very many people require the services of an architect. Lawyers, doctors, accountants, and dentists are far more in demand than architects.
Right now, I think we should be counting our blessings with what we have. It could be far worse.
vado's right about architects' inability to unionize, and really unionizing architecture is a silly thought, but it grinds me to hear principles making excuses about the miniscule wages they pay their interns.
it reminds me of when i first started interning and had to fold shop drawings for three straight days; the project architect comes up and says, "hey, we all had to do it." use your noodle, dillweed, do the damn things really need to be folded in the first place? similarly is that extra 5K really gonna affect your bottom line? what you get in return for that money is an employee who values the company he or she is working for. it's a reciprocal relationship. the "we all had to do it" excuse is just that, an excuse...
but we've already had that discussion many times.
at least they didnt tell you to, " bend over, we all had to do it".
let me tell ya - that folding is crucial when youre looking for shops that go into the triple digits as dwg numbers...
but flaming66,
#3 on your list. have you been to nyc lately - "shelter" is all anyone, let alone arks, could barely afford.
#1 is a matter of ingenuity and "know how to eat free in nyc"
hm. most of the things 'we all had to do' are really worth doing and i still do them on a regular basis. would we rather our interns just never get it right?
: cryzko :
Unions didn’t kill the auto big 3 it was bad management at the head of the big three and inflexibility. You see it today. Unions are less powerful in the auto industry why is Toyota is soon to be the number one auto manufacture in the United States. Not because of Unions.
I know plenty of architects that do well.
Simple economics…..I suggest that there are fewer guys doing the alias/Photoshop design car design stuff than there are architects. Per capita per industry. Simple supply and demand.
On topic---- it would seem that to raise the value of architects it needs to become more accessible.
This was supposed to be the mandate of the “new” A.I.A.
Architecture is a luxury for most people they have no base connection to its world. The built environment for the most part is terrible and therefore what Joe on the street is used to is crap. Most people have no value system by which to judge Architecture and therefore have no understanding that it is something that has a significant value, is important and should be paid for.
Half my work is education not students in academia but the client. This is money and time that is never recouped but if you care about what you build then it is unavoidable. Why do this work otherewise.
Consider that medical graduates spend 3 to 6 years or more working for under 50,000 dollars as residents and fellows before making the six figure incomes. A talented architect with that amount of post graduate school experience should be able to command better pay if that is their concern by being innovative, and, this can include non-archi work. On the other hand, if money and not job satisfaction is the motivation for considering a vocation, I suggest people look at the income data before applying to Archi schools. My guess is that very good architects become finacially well rewarded.
with the folding shops issue, the person in charge needs to ask, "why am i asking someone to do this?" in that instance, the building was completed. the architect wanted the shops archived in the off chance of litigation (the .0000000001% chance). i personally am not any better off for having folded shops for three straight days. the client was billed for work that was completely unnecessary. i was removed from jobs that were more pressing. in fact, after that third day, the principle intervened and told the architect that this work was a waste of time. which it was. but because that project architect had this hazing mentality of "we all had to do it" the company ended up suffering for it.
here's a question:
maybe I'm naive because I've only looked for a design job in LA (where salaries are a bit higher), but who the hell accepts a job for $30,000 a year once they have a degree? Is that all that's available in some areas?
on the lines of what Kyll said...
When I was interviewing for my first job, I disqualified companies that offered me less that $40k, and that was w/ a BFA in IA and in ID positions, because I couldn't live on less. Now I've switched to the construction side (work for a sub) I see how much more money there is over here. I asked for a 12.5% wage increase to start and they more didn't even blink. in fact, I pretty sure i could have got at least another $5k out of them.
(and don't say that ID makes more than arch because statistically, it isn't true- especially in entry level jobs.)
and to think i left cheffing to get in to design. ouch.
do we really need architects anyways?
i was looking into another career field a while back (still am). I had a phone interview with the person who was going to potentially hire me. I asked what the starting salary was...he laughed and said it was low...I asked...he gave me the $$$ figure....more than I make 4 yrs out of school as an architect
I'll bet mightylittle™ was eating for free!
mdler - what was the other field?
i have uncles that worked for the big 3 for 15-20 years and they took the buy out..... they even said that the workers are wayyyy over paid for an un-skilled job..... seriously...making 17 an hour to put on lug nuts..wtf.... regular times and leave after 8hours
i dont like the while salary option that firms have offered me over the years........ i turned down a 50g a year spot because they wanted me to work 60-80 hour weeks for 4 months...wtf..... do the math on that...then they say in slow times i'll be stable...yeah...ok.... i dont give into the whole stable thing....if a company is to lay you off then you layed off....thats that...... theres no guarentee in jobs anymore....you cant work at one place for 10-15 years and expect to really get anywhere...
they are going to raise min wage to $9.10 also......
so those that are making $12 in firms, better ask for a raise.......
model building for TV / film
cryzko
I agree with you in that you really cant expect to go anywhere unless you are running your own firm...I used to work in a big corporate NYC office and there were people there (in their 40's with wife and kids at home) working 80hrs a week for $45K. They were thinking that they were going to climb the ladder, but they werent. At the same time, there were many trust fund kids doing the same thing for no money...
You have to go into construction management if you want to make money as an architect.
I wouldnt say go into it - but you better offer it as part of your services -
make yourself valuable. Figure out how. And money will follow.
I think it is ok to assume that arch. firms (depending on the type one works for) are like most other companies (sure, they may not pull in the same amt. of $) and if you make yourself indispensable it will probably be easier to get more money. It will, of course, always require putting in time.
I worked for a mid-size firm (before the were acquired by a large corp. firm) that was easily the most poorly run business I've ever seen (run by old-school Harvard grads). The big fish who ate us is all about the $$ and everyone seemed to do well financially (a lot of profit sharing and incentives - run by non-ivy grads).
If the business is run well then everyone should benefit. However, the perons running the business cannot be "old-school" nor can they be devoted to being 100% architect. There needs to be a happy medium of business and arch.
Hazing is old school. Cleaning dishes is old school.
From what I've seen, running a profitable biz is new school.
This is just my limited experience, but it seems like there are other avenues out there.
I think one of the things we ought to do is to make our practice more "scalable". A scalable job is a job where what you do is not linked to how many hours you work, but by how much people are willing to pay for it... that said i think every underpaid architects should find their niche markets; you can super high end furniture for example, double as housing inspectors, sell ready made plans, or work for a developer....
Is it possible for firms to wear the hats of related professions that seem to make more money. Say for instance, we finance (somehow??) our own projects and sell them. We could potentially be taking the developers and realtors commission as well as not dealing with a client.
aking
you going to the Jonathan Segal lecture in LA?
nonarchitect, do you mean "selling ready made plans" or "selling your soul"?
http://www.dreamhomesource.com/house-plans-full-search.hwx/Q/searchId.122931503/range.50
and how does an architect get into construction management or develop the know how for their firm to offer those services?
i was always thinking about designing/building small 2 story homes and flipping them...but i would be my own client......
with all the shit getting built these days...between the the big foot homes and cookie cutters/etc...i'm sure i can doa decent family home for 120-150,000 and still make it worth while.....
considering that architecture is just a high paid art-form and most people are hesitant for paying for "art"...you just have to stick to your guns and rates..... if people really appreciate your work then need to really pay...... it's like getting surgury and saying that your only half....they wouldnt even work on you then....
if your firm does creative/clean work and are strong at it...then your shouldnt have a problem...... but if your firm sucks at designs/etc then let them scrap the bottom of the floor for the b.s. projects......
marketing/husltin' in the "art field" is really hard......... most artist dont get famous until they die......so go figure that......
i'm sure we all have our own stories/etc....but if you really have a passion for the "art" that you do, then take your stand...... and if you dont like it...then change careers and do your "art" on the side..
b
Block this user
Are you sure you want to block this user and hide all related comments throughout the site?
Archinect
This is your first comment on Archinect. Your comment will be visible once approved.