In responcse...

Why can't architectural practice be more reflective of the discourse (research, experimentation, crossing disciplines, etc) that occurs at the academic level?

Or vice versa?

Why must they run dissimilar paths?

because the construction industry is running the show these days. we lost our leverage some time ... oh... in the 60s/70s.

right after world war 2 when developing became the norm.

another response: because research and experimentation don't make money most of the time

oh, and i agree with the premise of the original post. do your own research, ask specific questions, or at least be prepared to have a meaningful conversation that demonstrates that you've looked for your own information before relying on other people's advice.

the internet makes people lazy. its pretty sad.

jack: because we are lazy and like to feel like we are powerless and mere pawns of the powers that be.

i was lazy way before the internets.

paperharbinger,

tongue-in-cheek?

i've avoided this thread, but today i'm bored so here's my input...

first, i'll suggest including Louis Kahn on treekiller's list of influential architectural educators...

second, i'll reiterate AP/DZ's preference for an excellent educator over an excellent practitioner... in my experience it is rare that someone is great at both... while i agree that just being around a starchitect when they visit studio once every other week can be an education in and of itself i don't think that this holds a candle to the education that you'll get from a dedicated educator that is there in studio 3 times a week helping to to develop your own design process...

third, while i haven't attended an ivy (not yet at least) i don't entirely agree that the name on your degree has absolutely no effect on your ability to succeed in practice... one of the biggest things that you'll get out of a top tier school is a NETWORK... while not always the case, starchitects DO tend to spawn new starchitects...

finally, i do think that the name on your degree can have a huge impact if you plan on going into academia... but again, this is partly due to the network that you build at a top tier school...

postscript: i think that we should refer more to top tier schools rather than ivies... as someone mentioned above while Michigan, Rice, UCBerkeley, SCIarc, and a few others are not part of the Ivy League athletic conference, they are all incredible design schools...

Hey, lazy people are people too

i am BUMPING this because of all the NEWBS WHO KEEP WANTING US TO TELL THEM WHICH SCHOOL TO GO TO! ARRRRGHHHH!

Sorry, i just got out of "300" and i feel like shouting.

Maybe I should repost this as >>SCHOOL APPLICATION NEWBS CLICK HERE FIRST!<<<

haha apurimac - for what it's worth (although i'm done with the application/decision process this year, thank goodness) all the tips you wrote up there are GREAT! and almost all stuff that i did which basically narrowed things down to the one school that incidentally, i'll be attending in the fall. (yippee!)

i will reiterate: the search button is a newbie's best friend - these schools have been discussed to death!

Apurimac,

I hope you feel like screaming because the movie was so shitty.

If you enjoyed 300 you may know quite a bit about architecture but you know f@#k all about film. I guess everybodies a newbie at something.

isn't it possible to enjoy something even if it's not the most artful thing ever?

i haven't seen '300' and don't have high hopes for it, but i have plenty of guilty pleasure movies that have nothing to do with what i know about film! it is possible for a movie to be purely escapist - and i always allow myself to be sucked in.

300 is an enjoyable flick...not everything is going to be 'the best'...but that should not limit one from taking it in...sh*t, I love tons of crap movies...I think I will watch Deathrace 2000 right now.

My point is anyone can be a snob. yes?

Also, I think the more you learn about a given field the harder it is to enyoy shit, because you see all the cracks and fissures.

one man's trash is another man's treasure, i thought it was an enjoyable flick.

just looking at what 'jafidler' said....and.... is Penn a "fairly average design school"?

I'm so confused...

Guys, come on. Isn't part of the experince at Harvard or MIT a great one, because of Cambridge; being in the middle of the greatest melting pot of architecture students, ideas, pot, beer, bars parties? I think that is part of the learning experience that a lot of the other schools don't have as much of.

I remember a lot of architecture students, pot, beer and bar parites at Oregon.

I liked 300 BTW. I did want to kick someone in the chest and yell "THIS IS SPARTA" in a scottish accent though.

LOL aquino!

Hyp, i have a terrible feeling you'll be spending most of your time slaving on projects in a basement at GSD or MIT and sleeping on the weekends. If you want beer, pot, ideas, and good times major in something like English which will give you some downtime to BS with your intellectual buddies.

hmmmm all the english lit/writing students i've known busted their asses as much as the architecture students.

you mean that wasn't a Spartan accent??

DAMMIT vado you ruined my dream! I was hoping i could go to Harvard, get an english degree, and spend the rest of my life as an academic, sitting in coffee shops, shooting the shit and working on my novel. Are there any good majors for that!?

Pick 10 of your favorite architects and see where they went to school? Did they go to Ivies? These stararchitects are old foagies, of coarse they went to Ivy League Schools, that used to be the only place schoolars went to school.

Today, however, good faculty and students are so diluted, making at least 15 really good grad schools.

Realizing this, schools are competing against eachother to attract great students and, in my mind, some of the Ivies are being passed by top state schools and other institutions.

In 20 years, I believe that leading architects are going to come from a broader range of schools.

Look at the book, Architects Now, or Arch Record's anual, Design Vangaurd- young architects are coming from places like SciArc, UCLA, Michigan, Wash U, RISD, as well as Harvard and others..

i am bumping this JUST for TMNT

i think the ivy league degree might matter more to a potential client base than those on the inside of the profession.. just my 2 cents

this is a great thread...never seen one like this before.

So what's the best school?

your public library

Is anyone hoping to work in the non-profit sector after graduation?

A common theme in state vs. ivy law school threads is the frequent "selling out" to pay off loans after graduation.

Ivy v. State v. other. I think the best think to do is

1 visit the place, many schools Ivy or otherwise have awesome facilities for the graduate students or the select few, but often have dilapidated crummy places for first year grads and or undergrads. Also when evaluating facilities do not discount older or repurposed buildings used as studios, my undergrad education at Southern Illinois University Carbondale was taught in a circa 1959 home economics college, so we had older spaces but studios had some interesting amenities such as showers, kitchens with dishwasher, fireplaces and a huge patio and BBQ pit, and 20 ft ceilings. And that was just one studio. So don’t judge a space based on its photogenic qualities it has to work and some schools have studios that don’t work well.
2 evaluate the number of student organizations and community outreach programs, this can be a useful insight into the work / life balance, schools that crack the whip and routinely demand long hard hours might come up short in this department.

3 make sure they teach what you need to know, this may sound like a stupid thing but if you don’t know CAD or Revit then make sure the school teaches those things if you think you need formal instruction. Check the job ads and figure out how the schools your are considering will help you get those jobs.

4 beware of starchitects or heavy handed design philosophies these can end up being very difficult to work under and very restrictive. If a school has a wide variety of ideas the work students produce will reflect that and be varied in style and complexity. Look out for schools that have a prescribed way of doing things. If junior year projects are all using exposed steel framing and computer graphics then be prepared to have to pay homage to their design philosophies or deity like starchitects.

5 Look for others who look like you, if you are a minority gay, female, or not an uber trendy label watching trust fund kid be careful, other things go on at school besides studio, pick a place that has a culture that you are comfortable with since you will be seeing those people much more often than your friends, spouse, or family. Also if you are married or have children ask, students and faculty, speak with any current or recent graduates who were in a similar situation, some schools are down right hostile to parents and especially their kids. This is very important as studio deadlines will not wait for a babysitter.

6 Look at the rest of the college or university, you will eventually have the opportunity / obligation to take some electives, and do they offer anything that you are interested in.

It is all about style, needs and lifestyle, there are a huge range of possibilities. The “Ivy League” schools share some common traits and conditions that might or might not appeal to you, but there are so many different options from state schools, arts colleges, independent schools of architecture such as the Boston Architectural Collage and huge state programs like University of Illinois or Texas A. & M. There are a lot of options in what “style” of architectural education you want to pursue Ivy League is just one of many options.

First try and determine what you need to know
Then how will you learn it
And where will you have the greatest chance for success

Flunking out of school, ivy or otherwise, is not going to make you successful, or happy.

pjn26- i really appreciated that you took the time to write all of that. it's one of the most useful comments I've read on this message board.